Times Quick Cryptic 1797 by Felix

Author   william_j_sPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
I hope I’m not alone in finding this one a bit of a struggle. The problem with blogging after solving is that in trying to break clues down and make the parsing clear, it all starts to look very easy and you wonder what all the fuss was about! I’ll give myself a pass on 14ac (despite having seen this tricky defintion before, it still went straight over my head) and 21dn which I think (assuming I’ve understood it correctly) crosses the line from ‘creativity’ to “wilful obstruction’.

Still, there was lots to be enjoyed along the way (the surface readings made me chuckle, as did some of the crafty definitions), as well as afterwards. Hat-tip to Jackkt for reminding me of this setter’s penchant for sneaking something extra into his grids…

Across
7 Proceeded casually — risked losing the lead (6)
AMBLED – gAMBLED (risked) minus the first letter (losing the head).
8 Feeble Hollywood movie: but it’s hard to shake off! (6)
LIMPET – LIMP (feeble) and ET (Holywood movie).
9 Dumbest fool, finally moving, nearly fell (8)
STUMBLED – anagram of (moving) DUMBEST with the last letter of (finally) fooL.
10 Got larger plug rewired, partially (4)
GREW – hidden in (partially) pluG REWired.
11 State of king meeting an elite army unit (6)
KANSAS – K (king), AN, then SAS (elite army unit).
13 Sporting events: matches? (5)
MEETS – double definition, the second as in ‘meets/matches the specification’.
14 I turn on stove in the end (3)
EGO – GO (turn) next to (on) the last letter of (in the end) stovE.
15 Did DIY in bathroom I’d let out (5)
TILED – anagram of (out) I’D LET.
17 Expedition’s endless voyage, covering a great distance (6)
SAFARI – SAI{L} (voyage) without the last letter (endless), containing (covering) FAR (a great distance).
19 Try second helping of this? Just starters (4)
SHOT – first letters from (just starters) Second Helping Of This.
20 Singular spicy dishes can give you runs (8)
SCURRIES – S (singular) and CURRIES (spicy dishes).
22 Stop to deliver outside of zone (6)
FREEZE – FREE (to deliver) then the first and last letters from (outside of) ZonE.
23 Article first put together for believer (6)
THEIST – THE (article) and IST (first).

Down
1 Skip round little boy, jumping up (4)
OMIT – O (round) and a reversal of (jumping up) TIM (little boy).
2 Article borne by diminutive, climbing, pack animals (6)
LLAMAS – A (article) inside (borne by) a reversal of (climbing) SMALL (diminutive).
3 I had poor Isolde worshipped (8)
IDOLISED – I’D (I had) and an anaram of (poor) ISOLDE.
4 Cruel old ruler’s verse on youth (4)
VLAD – V (verse) then LAD (youth).
5 One who’s fled bad regime? (6)
EMIGRE – anagram of (bad) REGIME.
6 One turning back from minister and queen twice embracing son (8)
REVERSER – REV (minister), then ER ER (Queen twice) containing (embracing) S (son).
12 Unconventional star upset before hit national shows (8)
ANTIHERO – reverse hidden in (upset… shows) befORE HIT NAtional.
13 Ticks abandon old fly (8)
MOSQUITO – MOS (moments, ticks) QUIT (abandon) and O (old).
16 Permissive character? (6)
LETTER – cryptic definition.
18 Person having stock of bacteria for germ warfare — murder, ultimately (6)
FARMER – last letters from (ultimately) oF bacteriA foR gerM warfarE murdeR.
20 Appear to understand spy chief (4)
SEEM – SEE (to understand) and M (character in James Bond, spy chief).
21 Rest of newspaper oddly skipped (4)
EASE – every other letter from (oddly) nEwSpApEr then reversed (skipped). Chambers has ‘skip” = ‘overleap’ = ‘to leap over’ so I suppose it’s a very clever reversal indicator that is easily misconstrued as part of the instruction to remove letters. MER from me though.

The perimeter squares around the grid read: OLIVER TWIST ASKS FOR MORE

89 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic 1797 by Felix”

  1. A toughie! I was another whose LOI, ANTIHERO took an inordinate amount of time to see, and another long while to spot the hidden. I also think 21d doesn’t quite work as it is written. I STUMBLED around the grid and eventually AMBLED over the line in 18:03. Thanks Felix and William.
  2. Late here mainly because the puzzle was so difficult. I stopped the clock after 19:40 with two left. Had promised to take wife to shops.
    I had the same problems as others with EASE.
    I decided not to give up. I even looked for and failed to find Felix’s nina; which would not have helped today.
    The instructions for 12d seemed to be anagram of STAR plus something else. All my early thinking was based on ATRS or ASTR. And 22a was a word for Deliver outside an abbreviation for Zone. So Z or ZE or Zo inside something.
    So it was after some major rethinking that I ended with ANTIHERO and FREEZE after 34:58.
    Very pleased to finish all correct. Very tough for a QC.
    David
  3. Far to difficult for me. After a year of trying I think I am going to call it a day. Much appreciate the blogs. Actually thought I was getting somewhere but the last 2 months it seems most of the puzzles have got far more difficult and of course for me far less enjoyable.

    Once again the blogs have been much appreciated.

    1. Of course it’s entirely up to you whether or not you carry on, but it would be ironic if today’s offering from the Editor, of all people, was the final straw.

      Edited at 2021-01-27 01:30 pm (UTC)

      1. I did not know it was the editor. Still I think the puzzles over the last couple of months have changed in nature and are no longer QC and certainly not aimed at a new audience. I gave it a year and have gone backwards in the last 2 months. I just have to accept I possible am not very good at them. Still thanks for your reply.
        1. Don’t let that one break you – it really was abnormally hard. I’m a ten minute solver and I couldn’t finish it, and just look at the number of people on here who DNF’d or struggled. Even Phil went over 5 minutes!!

        2. I hope the editor reads this comment, and considers how to make the QC more accessible to new solvers.

  4. Definitely not a QC …
    … and if one wants to be reminded that crosswords are sometimes too difficult for one there is after all always the 15×15. Surprised that Felix thinks this puzzle belongs in the same group as puzzles set by Oink, Mara, Teazel et al.

    Huge DNF from me and even seeing William’s blog I am left dissatisfied. Where in 15A is the indicator that one needs to find an anagram of I’d let – the word out? Does free really act as a synonym for deliver in 22A? Does matches really mean meets in 13A? Where is the indicator for a hidden in 12D (surely not shows, as shows and hidden are opposites)? And 21D has already been extensively commented on.

    I don’t mind one or two MERs in a puzzle; no-one expects even a QC to be a write-in. But my eyebrows are not so much raised as in orbit after this puzzle. Delete, forget, move on I’m afraid from me.

    Many thanks to William for the blog, and in this case much admiration too for making sense of it all.

    Cedric

    1. I found this very tough too, but I can’t argue with the setter over (Set)free/liberate/deliver(us from evil), the specification meets/matches requirements, or even “out” as an anagram indicator, as it’s quite common in the 15×15. I do agree that there were too many “A” Level constructions for a QC though.
  5. Good grief that was hard – only managed nine and two halves. Got Mosquito but disn’t know why and same with Reverser. Rather liked Scurries. Wanted to put Flimsy for Limpet….
  6. I couldn’t see the definition in 14a: EGO, and I still can’t. I guessed ENO, and so I ended up with a DNF – after 74 minutes of real struggle.

    I had solved only six clues after my first pass (approx. 10 minutes). The seventh didn’t appear for another 15 minutes, after which almost every other clue required a real battle.

    Whilst I’m relatively new to this game, I have learned enough to know that ‘Quick Cryptic’ is a misnomer for today’s puzzle.

    All I can do is to doff my hat to those who rattled it off, without error, in anything under about 50 minutes (2 minutes per clue), and put it down to experience. I felt simply outclassed today.

    P.S. Mrs Random has yet to attempt this puzzle, although I imagine I will have a little more hat-doffing to do once she has.

    Thanks to william_j_s and to Felix (but please ease up next time).

    1. Must admit, Marine was the first thing that came into my head. But the clue said Army elite unit, and Marines are not army; they are Navy. Army elite unit, as far as Brits are concerned is SAS (though being ex-navy myself I think the SBS are better, but I am just bias 😛 )

      As soon as I realised King was K, Kansas just fell in for me.

    2. If I’d thought of MARINE I would never have corrected it. Not often that a “wrong” answer fits so well.

  8. Could only solve 6 clues, not even enough to get any help. Really beyond my level. Dispiriting.
    1. Same, a very unsatisfying 1hr20 and still incomplete and with errors. Should have given up long before and looked at the blog. They are not normally this impossible, I am sure!
      1. Not usually, no. We enjoy them immensely and find a completed one, very satisfying. Let’s hope it was just a blip.
  10. I didn’t enjoy this much (Nina ? schmina !)

    I was already just over target before spending 90 seconds trying to fit anything into 12D. Had I been online I could have backed out “astr”, but I was on paper AND in ink, so it didn’t exactly help me ! When the truth emerged, it was the only clue in the whole puzzle to impress me (although SCURRIES made me smile).

    FOI AMBLED
    LOI & COD ANTIHERO (aka our Editor !)
    TIME 6:35

  11. But came to a dead end with Freeze — and hence didn’t get Antihero… I was going round the twist.
    that’s the second time I’ve failed on or near the last with a hidden — only this time a reverse hidden!
    Will the lesson ever be learnt?
    Time will tell.
    No time , I fell asleep in the middle of this- about 30 minutes and a DNF
    But enjoyed in a perverse way.
    Just assumed 21d was an error but half thought of Mr Rotter’s idea and moved on.
    Thanks all
    John George

  12. While I feel somewhat cheated of the time I put into this, very pleased to know everyone pretty much felt the same. I do hope this one doesn’t make it into the printed compilations, which I started with. If I’d had this to contend with early on I’d have given up entirely.

    Many thanks to william for the blog and others for all the comments to ease the dissatisfaction! And an applaud to Felix for a clearly very very clever puzzle, just please make it a 15×15 next time!

  13. Over my head as well. I managed about a third, biffed a few and put a couple in from checkers. Then went to my last resort approach of trying ideas on my phone. That’s how I finally realised I wasn’t looking for an anagram of star at 12d. Had no idea for 18d. On the other hand, I did work out 14a, once I’d got the initial ‘e’.

    Serves me right for being smug about finishing yesterday.. Ho hum.

  14. Good heavens, that took us a whopping 37 minutes to complete. It took us back to our days in “QC nursery” when we always seemed to need 30 mins to solve the QC. I hope that newer QC’ers don’t give up because of this puzzle – it was really hard. We’re very happy to have completed the puzzle, even though we had to biff a couple of the answers. Thanks Felix – you nearly outfoxed us today.

    FOI: grew
    LOI: freeze
    COD: antihero

    Thanks for the excellent blog William.

  15. Rather smugly worked easily through NE corner and then ground to a halt.

    I still am struggling to understand the indicators for ANTIHERO (one before and one after the words, but linked up?)

    Some fun challenges for a relative novice like me (a ‘First Lockdown learner’) : FARMER , KANSAS (was not thinking geographic state) and EGO.

    1. Regarding the indicator being found before and after the fodder – this does happen occasionally (I only remember because it is very clunky to try and explain in the blog).

      Take “before hit national” as a single component, X:

      Upset X shows = reversal of X reveals.

      As others have commented, ‘shows’ is a bit thin for ‘hides’ or ‘contains’, but is used very commonly.

  16. Very slow going today and I can’t say that I really enjoyed it, with the exception of a couple of standout clues. Finished in 25 mins but hadn’t parsed antihero, ease or mosquito.

    FOI – 10ac GREW
    LOI – 22 ac FREEZE
    COD – 20ac SCURRIES

    Thanks to William for a heroic blog.

  17. Didn’t think I was going to finish this, but was pleased to grind it out, albeit in 56:30. Forgot to parse ANTIHERO properly after a PDM and found plenty chewy, but unlike some others I didn’t really find anything unfair. With 21d I just took ‘oddly’ to mean “every other letter” and then skipped as an anagrind. I didn’t notice the letters were reversed. MER at the word REVERSER, but it’s no more obscure than other words that often appear. Had ONE in for 14a at first, but then as soon as 3d went in I saw what the right answer was. Overall, plenty to enjoy. COD to FARMER. Thanks all.
  18. This certainly doesn’t give any more indication that it is possible than any of the previous attempts. It does seem to show that you need a good editor, and the impossibility of properly editing ones own work. Completed in a hideously long time, and fully parsed apart from 18d, by which time I had lost the will to live.

  19. I’ve had a busy week and this was my first chance to try the QC. Looks like I picked the wrong day. DNF for me too, struggling to try and find something starting with Arts for “antihero” and several more were beyond me. Think I’ll go back and try the previous day’s for hopefully more joy. Thanks William for the blog and much needed explanations.

  20. I am late to the party but I’m glad I turned up because I thought my solve of 14 minutes rather slow….but perhaps not. I wholeheartedly agree that there is something missing from 21d. I went with EASE anyway. I saw the tail end of the NINA just as I put in my LOI ANTIHERO.
  21. I think the “little” boy for 1d is Tiny Tim.
    DNF as did not get 19a. After asking the internet version to reveal 19a, popped “antihero” in unparsed and had to refer to the blog for the parsing. Enjoyed the puzzle, and always enjoy the blog. Thanks, William, for the blog today.
  22. Why is TILED the answer to “Did DIY in bathroom?” My bathroom has just been tiled and no DIY was involved. Agree with many others that this was far too abstruse for a QC. Stephen
    1. Now that I think about it, “did work in bathroom” would have been better. I only tried DIY tiling once, and the industrial language that it caused will long be remembered by my next door neighbours !
    2. A definition doesn’t have to fit every circumstance, just one is enough, but technically specifying DIY makes the clue a ‘definition by example’ which some maintain needs to be indicated by a question mark or a word such as ‘perhaps’ or ‘maybe’, but would that have made the clue easier to solve? ‘I’d let out (5)’ is pretty obviously going to be an anagram.

      Edited at 2021-01-27 05:44 pm (UTC)

      1. I am prepared to agree that it was obvious one was was looking for an anagram — though for me, it only became so once I had the checkers — but to learn that “out” can be used as an anagrind does make me wonder whether there is any word in the English language that can’t be!

        Cedric

        1. Cedric, you may find it useful to take a look at Tim Moorey’s item on anagram indicators reproduced on my own journal here: https://jackkt.livejournal.com/

          Lists of indicators are available e.g. in Chambers Crossword Dictionary, but however long the list (some of them run to many hundreds of words) they all fall broadly into 10 or 11 categories as in Tim’s table. I would say that ‘out’ could come under ‘Movement’ or ‘Disturbance of Order’.

  24. What everyone else said! I found this really hard and was pleased to have finished in 18 minutes, especially now I realise that it wasn’t only me who found it so difficult. The only problem is that, having read the blog, I discovered that I hadn’t actually finished it at all, having left the notorious 12d out 😅 Definitely a high score on Louisa’s exasperometer today!

    FOI Ambled
    COD Scurries — made me smile and wince at the same time
    DNF

    Big thanks to William for sorting this out

  25. A good day. Just as well it had nothing to do with solving this QC, which was a DNF. I put EVO (turning the end of Stove) and should have concluded my rule, if you can’t parse it, it’s probably wrong. Surprisingly spotted ANTIHERO and FREEZE with barely a mo’s pause, which makes it all the more sad that I got the QUITO in Mosquito but couldn’t fathom the MOS. Eventually got Ease but felt it unfair as I didn’t think the reverse skip was indicated. Tried to make sense of Farming bacteria before the obvious stock penny dropped with a smile. CoD REVERSER.
    I huffed and puffed over this and exceeded my usual maximum time (about an hour) but has quite a lot of waiting around one way or another and it was a good time filler.
    Definitely difficult, but, since are easier than others, and this wasn’t one of them.
    Thanks Felix, William and commenters.
  26. user jackkt posted a query about the difficulty of this puzzle on the Times Puzzle pages and I replied as follows

    Unfortunately sometimes a puzzle comes long which is trickier than most. That is almost inevitable given the fact that the clues are still “cryptic”. It’s never the intention to make one puzzle harder than another. It’s hard for me to comment really on the difficulty, other than to apologise and hope that the less easy ones are the exceptions.

    Apologies also for the error in the clue to EASE. A replacement clue will be posted for the online version.

    RR

    1. I think that the role of editor includes the obligation to ensure that the QC is not pitched at too high a level of difficulty. However, your comment suggests that you do not take complexity into account.
      The QC was designed to encourage novice cryptic solvers to gain skills, before progressing to the 15 x 15.
      On recent form, you are deterring them. That’s a shame.
      John and Phil provide a consistently fair and enjoyable parallel to the QC, on alternate Fridays. Maybe have a look at a few of them?
  27. I congratulate Felix on squeezing a 15×15 into a QC. I came nowhere in this one. I accept that I was not on the wavelength, nor at my best, but with only 9 answers after simply ages (I usually persevere, and hate giving up) I threw in the towel and came here for enlightenment. From Chris’s excellent blog, I can see that had I been thinking straight I should have got at least another half a dozen, but that would still have been a resounding DNF. With such a poor showing, I can’t really offer any FOI/LOI/COD. I hope I am seeing more clearly tomorrow, and there is a kinder puzzle! ‘Evening all’….
  28. Far to difficult for me. After a year of trying I think I am going to call it a day. Much appreciate the blogs. Actually thought I was getting somewhere but the last 2 months it seems most of the puzzles have got far more difficult and of course for me far less enjoyable.

    Once again the blogs have been much appreciated.

  30. Yes William, I agree this one was rather tough. Resorted to the dictionary to finish it off.

    I always find Felix’s puzzles quite difficult – he has a habit of bashing indicators and definitions around which don’t fit together – this is to say the surfaces are rarely very smooth and it’s really not clear at all which way to read the clue. I suppose that makes a good cryptic but the style grates on me. 13A is a good example – I really couldn’t work out what was going on there. Perhaps that’s because of the clever ticks=MOS.

    5D my COD (good surface and pithy).

    Thanks Felix for a tricky puzzle and William for exegesis.

    Woodsy.

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