Times Quick Cryptic 1797 by Felix

Author   william_j_sPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
I hope I’m not alone in finding this one a bit of a struggle. The problem with blogging after solving is that in trying to break clues down and make the parsing clear, it all starts to look very easy and you wonder what all the fuss was about! I’ll give myself a pass on 14ac (despite having seen this tricky defintion before, it still went straight over my head) and 21dn which I think (assuming I’ve understood it correctly) crosses the line from ‘creativity’ to “wilful obstruction’.

Still, there was lots to be enjoyed along the way (the surface readings made me chuckle, as did some of the crafty definitions), as well as afterwards. Hat-tip to Jackkt for reminding me of this setter’s penchant for sneaking something extra into his grids…

Across
7 Proceeded casually — risked losing the lead (6)
AMBLED – gAMBLED (risked) minus the first letter (losing the head).
8 Feeble Hollywood movie: but it’s hard to shake off! (6)
LIMPET – LIMP (feeble) and ET (Holywood movie).
9 Dumbest fool, finally moving, nearly fell (8)
STUMBLED – anagram of (moving) DUMBEST with the last letter of (finally) fooL.
10 Got larger plug rewired, partially (4)
GREW – hidden in (partially) pluG REWired.
11 State of king meeting an elite army unit (6)
KANSAS – K (king), AN, then SAS (elite army unit).
13 Sporting events: matches? (5)
MEETS – double definition, the second as in ‘meets/matches the specification’.
14 I turn on stove in the end (3)
EGO – GO (turn) next to (on) the last letter of (in the end) stovE.
15 Did DIY in bathroom I’d let out (5)
TILED – anagram of (out) I’D LET.
17 Expedition’s endless voyage, covering a great distance (6)
SAFARI – SAI{L} (voyage) without the last letter (endless), containing (covering) FAR (a great distance).
19 Try second helping of this? Just starters (4)
SHOT – first letters from (just starters) Second Helping Of This.
20 Singular spicy dishes can give you runs (8)
SCURRIES – S (singular) and CURRIES (spicy dishes).
22 Stop to deliver outside of zone (6)
FREEZE – FREE (to deliver) then the first and last letters from (outside of) ZonE.
23 Article first put together for believer (6)
THEIST – THE (article) and IST (first).

Down
1 Skip round little boy, jumping up (4)
OMIT – O (round) and a reversal of (jumping up) TIM (little boy).
2 Article borne by diminutive, climbing, pack animals (6)
LLAMAS – A (article) inside (borne by) a reversal of (climbing) SMALL (diminutive).
3 I had poor Isolde worshipped (8)
IDOLISED – I’D (I had) and an anaram of (poor) ISOLDE.
4 Cruel old ruler’s verse on youth (4)
VLAD – V (verse) then LAD (youth).
5 One who’s fled bad regime? (6)
EMIGRE – anagram of (bad) REGIME.
6 One turning back from minister and queen twice embracing son (8)
REVERSER – REV (minister), then ER ER (Queen twice) containing (embracing) S (son).
12 Unconventional star upset before hit national shows (8)
ANTIHERO – reverse hidden in (upset… shows) befORE HIT NAtional.
13 Ticks abandon old fly (8)
MOSQUITO – MOS (moments, ticks) QUIT (abandon) and O (old).
16 Permissive character? (6)
LETTER – cryptic definition.
18 Person having stock of bacteria for germ warfare — murder, ultimately (6)
FARMER – last letters from (ultimately) oF bacteriA foR gerM warfarE murdeR.
20 Appear to understand spy chief (4)
SEEM – SEE (to understand) and M (character in James Bond, spy chief).
21 Rest of newspaper oddly skipped (4)
EASE – every other letter from (oddly) nEwSpApEr then reversed (skipped). Chambers has ‘skip” = ‘overleap’ = ‘to leap over’ so I suppose it’s a very clever reversal indicator that is easily misconstrued as part of the instruction to remove letters. MER from me though.

The perimeter squares around the grid read: OLIVER TWIST ASKS FOR MORE

89 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic 1797 by Felix”

  1. Surely “oddly” can only mean take the odd-numbered letters? Unless we’re counting from zero (actually, as a programmer…that makes a lot of sense)

    So “oddly skipped” must therefore mean to leave out the odd-numbered letters, and there’s no reversal indicator – probably the original clue was “Rest of newspaper oddly skipped over”, and the editor mistakenly removed what they thought was an unnecessary word

    Anyway I agree not an easy puzzle, 8 1/2 minutes here

    Lou.

    1. Well, I was hoping that this wasn’t the second puzzle in a row that I’ve blogged containing a mistake.

      I also tried to find a word that could have been missed off, but couldn’t — your suggestion seems very likely, thanks!

  2. With the last four minutes, I kid you not, spent on the very-well-hidden ANTIHERO.

    I agree that there must be a word missing from 21 Down.

  3. I also ground to a halt at the end on the cunning ANTIHERO hiding in plain sight. At 21D the instructions were so explicit that I wondered for a moment if ESAE was a word, before deciding it must be EASE despite the lack of a reversal indicator. MOSQUITO took far too long since I always forget the rule to try Q when there is a U there.
  4. is one of the best hidden clues I have ever seen in my short crossword career. I spent 10 minutes before giving up thinking the answer was ARTSH_R_ for some sort of TV show, but now that I think about it the word “national” is kind of out of place. Oh well…
  5. Following on from yesterday’s DICKENSIAN at 1ac, today we have a Dickensian Nina around the edges of the puzzle as mentioned by William. I was looking for something today as 9 out of Felix’s last 12 puzzles have contained a theme or Nina, and the last 2 involved Dickens characters, David Copperfield (#1698) and Mr Pickwick (#1763).

    Nearly forgot…

    The puzzle took me 14 minutes, so I missed my target 10 for the first time in more than a week. I share the opinion of those thinking there’s something missing from the clue at 21dn.

    Edited at 2021-01-27 05:29 am (UTC)

  6. 21:05 today, so into the SCC. But with good reason. LOI ANTIHERO. I took a long time with LLAMAS too and too many others. I thought I had extracted EASE successfully but I relied on “oddly” just meaning every other one, leaving “skipped” as the reversal indicator as the blogger says. SCURRIES provided some welcome light relief. And for the first time ever I saw the something extra.
  7. I can’t imagine how anyone could take that as a reversal indicator.
    Nice puzzle, except for that.
  8. Only three on the first pass of acrosses. I don’t usually count the downs but since there were only four I hadn’t built up a head of steam and then struggled from there to a finish in a recent personal worst (definitely for 2021, perhaps for 2020 too) of 25m. Now it’s been explained to me I think ANTIHERO is a great clue and also enjoyed TILED for giving me the biggest groan after quite a struggle, similarly with SCURRIES where I definitely over complicated — although S for singular is new to me — and LIMPET where it was LIMP for feeble that took time to arrive. Well below my usual gang on the leaderboard so many of the problems must have been self-inflicted.
  9. Timing be damned, I was just pleased to finish this entertaining puzzle. Liked the LLAMAS when it eventually clicked, groaned at SCURRIES which was so obvious after, and EGO, for which I needed both ends first. ANTIHERO was all it could be after much staring, and failing to find anagrams, but needed William to explain why; very neat. FARMER similarly. Not clever enough to parse it all but good enough to complete and enjoy. Thanks.
  10. That was tough, with hold ups throughout the grid. I thought that ANTIHERO was both brilliant and brutal as I spent a long time thinking that it was going to start with an anagram of star, which sent me down an awful lot of blind allies. I also spent a while trying to parse LOI EASE before giving and coming here to be educated and SAIL/VOYAGE took some spotting.
    After difficult puzzles I tend to do a more thorough read through than normal to check for typos/errors so I actually spotted a nina for once!
    Finished in 18.24, which is 2 seconds under the average solving time so far!! (Normally it’s between the 7 – 10 minute mark at this time of the morning).
    Thanks to william
  11. I see I’m not the only one to be stuck at the end on ANTIHERO persisting too long in thinking we had an anagram of STAR at the top of the word. In my case it added nearly 2 minutes. I was tempted by TESTS for 13A, but it didn’t quite work and I was saved by the checkers. I agree 21D is a bit tricky. COD to MOSQUITO, and thumbs up for the Nina. 6:37.
  12. DNF on Day 3, so a good week of finishes still eludes.

    The SW corner got me. Refused to let go of 12d starting “ASTR”. as plenty of words seemed they might fit. Although I should have been looking for a “hidden”.

    SHOT was confusing with both Starter and Second in there, I knew it was something to do with ordering letters, but could not make it work with a vowel in 2nd position (see ASTR above)

    And FREEZE was beyond my scope today. I targeted different letters for the fifth spot, and never consider Z. “Outside of” usually indicates a word outside another, and I didn’t consider the terminating letters of the word itself. Bring back “on vacation”, all is forgiven!

    COD : TILED

  13. Date: Wed, 27 Jan 21

    FOI: 3d IDOLISED
    LOI: 9a STUMBLED

    Time to Complete: DNF

    Clues Answered without aids: 4 (9a, 11a, 3d, 4d)

    Clues Answered with Aids (3 lives): Nil

    Clues Unanswered: 21

    Aids Used: Nil

    Total Answered: 4/25

    I found this one to be ridiculously difficult for me. After an hour I had only managed to answer 4 clues. Even trying to use an aid did not help me at all.

    1d – I cannot see how TIM = “Little boy”. Yes, Tim can be a boy’s name, but why “little”? Why “boy”? Why not just say “guy” or “boy” without the little? I was left thinking little boy meant perhaps just part of that word; “b” perhaps.

    16a – How on earth does Permissive character mean Letter?

    Did not enjoy this one at all.

    On the bright side, surely I can’t do any worse tomorrow.

  14. Good point on letter. As I solved I thought it was a double definition as I got it from ‘character’ as in character count in Word and then moved on as permissive and letting seemed close but I can’t now see how it works as a cryptic definition (or at all).

    Edited at 2021-01-27 09:46 am (UTC)

  15. Tim is usually short for Timothy, hence “little”. Misdirection is part of the game, I was hunting a B as well.

    1. Hi Merlin_55

      Many thanks for the reply. Yes, I can see why little would refer to a shortened name. I do, however, still feel that “little” was unnecessary. But, as you say, misdirection is part of the game. 🙂

  16. And “let” =allow, so a “letter” is someone who lets a lot of things pass, hence permissive. The ? Mark indicates something odd like this.

  17. Ah, “letter” – some who “lets”. Nice play on words there. Now I get it. Thanks again. 🙂
  18. Nowhere near wavelength. Gave up after 17 minutes. Eventually saw ANTIHERO – brilliant hidden, then just could not get FREEZE, so gave up in a huff! 🙂 I kept on thinking “outside of zone” looks very clumsy, what does that mean…

    Severe brain glue, nothing wrong with the puzzle. Well, except the lack of reversal indicator to get EASE.

  19. I, too, struggled to get a foothold and progressed slowly and increasingly wearily around the grid. Much too clever-clever for a QC IMO. Like others, I didn’t believe some of my answers but crossed my fingers, put them in, and failed to get the usual feeling of achievement when it came up all clear. The Nina was just an added kick in the ***s. This will do nothing to encourage newer solvers to persevere and improve. Horses for courses.
    Why would we have a 15×15 and then set another, slightly smaller puzzle of a largely similar standard? I stopped admiring the good clues and just wanted it all to end. This was the least satisfying QC of the 1797 that I have completed. Perhaps I will get more pleasure from the 15×15 today? Thanks to William for a valiant blog. John (grumpy) M.

    Edited at 2021-01-27 10:15 am (UTC)

    1. I did have a go at the 15×15 today. Slow but steady and, frankly, much more enjoyable than the QC today. John (not quite so grumpy now) M.

      Edited at 2021-01-27 04:25 pm (UTC)

  20. Well I enjoyed the ones I could complete, but got totally stuck on EGO, EAST (definitely something missing there) and VLAD. I ought to have remembered him, he’s not rare in Crossword Land.

    The hidden was very clever, I wish I’d spotted it.

    Diana

  22. 7:26, so about the same as other recent QCs. Maybe it was a little harder but having no long anagrams helped me. Interesting nina, which as per usual passed me by.

    21dn looks like an error to me, rather than clever. Maybe “over” has been missed off the end.

  23. My heart sank when I saw it was Felix, but to start with everything seemed reasonable and I made good progress in the top half of the grid. Ego was a struggle, and that seemed to set the tone for the bottom half. I took ages to spot Antihero (via star permutations) and Freeze didn’t exactly jump off the page. The upshot of all this was that after about 35mins I was left with 13ac/d and 20d. At that point I would normally stop and then come back to finish it off, but I was getting very little enjoyment so pulled stumps. Invariant
  24. On the tricky side today, but EASE must have been an error by the setter and/or editor – I agree with the suggestions above that there’s a missing ‘over’ at the end of the clue.
  25. 21 minutes for me, but all completed and parsed, with some very devious and chewy clues. I spotted the Nina, and on this occasion, I don’t think it has ‘forced’ a chewy puzzle — I think the puzzle was intended to be difficult.

    I disagree with the possible error hypothesis for 21d. I parsed it as follows. REST = definition, newspaper is the operand, the thing we need to work on, skipped is the instruction to take alternate letters, which then become the anagrist. The anagrind is then oddly. Answer EASE.

    Similarly, I parsed 16d differently to William, seeing it as a double definition rather than as a cryptic. Permissive gives letter (someone who lets things happen), and character is a letter, e.g. letter of the alphabet.

    Some great clues here, and definitely a 13 x 13 rather than a QC. Thanks to setter and blogger.

  26. Surprised that only 30 mins had passed until I got to the dreaded 12dn. I also didn’t see it — and spent ages doing the anagram of Star and trying to fit “Artshirt” and various combinations.

    A cunning puzzle from Felix with an amusing Nina around the edges. Strangely, it was one of those ones where I had hardly anything for 20 mins and then they all fell in at once, 13dn “Mosquito” being the catalyst for inspiration.

    Not sure where this falls on Louisa’s exasperometer, but there might be lots of teeth gnashing and finger clenching.

    Like many, I wasn’t sure about the reversal indicator for 21dn — but do they have to be in order? Thought “diahorrea” might be a fit for 20ac, but alas it wasn’t to be.

    FOI — 10ac “Grew”
    LOI — dnf
    COD — 14ac “Ego” — but could have been many

    Thanks as usual.

  29. A struggle on and off half the morning but I got there eventually. With 3 to go I went out to deliver the Parish mag, and thought of ANTIHERO on the way so virtue is its own reward. (failed to spot reversed hidden word though). Then solved FREEZE and LOI biffed EASE but could not work out the skipping in the latter.

    FOsI GREW, EMIGRE, KANSAS, TILED, THEIST

    LIMPET made me smile, ditto LETTER, REVERSER.

    Thanks for crucial blog, William.

  30. A toughie! I was another whose LOI, ANTIHERO took an inordinate amount of time to see, and another long while to spot the hidden. I also think 21d doesn’t quite work as it is written. I STUMBLED around the grid and eventually AMBLED over the line in 18:03. Thanks Felix and William.
  31. Late here mainly because the puzzle was so difficult. I stopped the clock after 19:40 with two left. Had promised to take wife to shops.
    I had the same problems as others with EASE.
    I decided not to give up. I even looked for and failed to find Felix’s nina; which would not have helped today.
    The instructions for 12d seemed to be anagram of STAR plus something else. All my early thinking was based on ATRS or ASTR. And 22a was a word for Deliver outside an abbreviation for Zone. So Z or ZE or Zo inside something.
    So it was after some major rethinking that I ended with ANTIHERO and FREEZE after 34:58.
    Very pleased to finish all correct. Very tough for a QC.
    David
  32. Far to difficult for me. After a year of trying I think I am going to call it a day. Much appreciate the blogs. Actually thought I was getting somewhere but the last 2 months it seems most of the puzzles have got far more difficult and of course for me far less enjoyable.

    Once again the blogs have been much appreciated.

    1. Of course it’s entirely up to you whether or not you carry on, but it would be ironic if today’s offering from the Editor, of all people, was the final straw.

      Edited at 2021-01-27 01:30 pm (UTC)

      1. I did not know it was the editor. Still I think the puzzles over the last couple of months have changed in nature and are no longer QC and certainly not aimed at a new audience. I gave it a year and have gone backwards in the last 2 months. I just have to accept I possible am not very good at them. Still thanks for your reply.
        1. Don’t let that one break you – it really was abnormally hard. I’m a ten minute solver and I couldn’t finish it, and just look at the number of people on here who DNF’d or struggled. Even Phil went over 5 minutes!!

        2. I hope the editor reads this comment, and considers how to make the QC more accessible to new solvers.

  33. Definitely not a QC …
    … and if one wants to be reminded that crosswords are sometimes too difficult for one there is after all always the 15×15. Surprised that Felix thinks this puzzle belongs in the same group as puzzles set by Oink, Mara, Teazel et al.

    Huge DNF from me and even seeing William’s blog I am left dissatisfied. Where in 15A is the indicator that one needs to find an anagram of I’d let – the word out? Does free really act as a synonym for deliver in 22A? Does matches really mean meets in 13A? Where is the indicator for a hidden in 12D (surely not shows, as shows and hidden are opposites)? And 21D has already been extensively commented on.

    I don’t mind one or two MERs in a puzzle; no-one expects even a QC to be a write-in. But my eyebrows are not so much raised as in orbit after this puzzle. Delete, forget, move on I’m afraid from me.

    Many thanks to William for the blog, and in this case much admiration too for making sense of it all.

    Cedric

    1. I found this very tough too, but I can’t argue with the setter over (Set)free/liberate/deliver(us from evil), the specification meets/matches requirements, or even “out” as an anagram indicator, as it’s quite common in the 15×15. I do agree that there were too many “A” Level constructions for a QC though.
  34. Good grief that was hard – only managed nine and two halves. Got Mosquito but disn’t know why and same with Reverser. Rather liked Scurries. Wanted to put Flimsy for Limpet….
  35. I couldn’t see the definition in 14a: EGO, and I still can’t. I guessed ENO, and so I ended up with a DNF – after 74 minutes of real struggle.

    I had solved only six clues after my first pass (approx. 10 minutes). The seventh didn’t appear for another 15 minutes, after which almost every other clue required a real battle.

    Whilst I’m relatively new to this game, I have learned enough to know that ‘Quick Cryptic’ is a misnomer for today’s puzzle.

    All I can do is to doff my hat to those who rattled it off, without error, in anything under about 50 minutes (2 minutes per clue), and put it down to experience. I felt simply outclassed today.

    P.S. Mrs Random has yet to attempt this puzzle, although I imagine I will have a little more hat-doffing to do once she has.

    Thanks to william_j_s and to Felix (but please ease up next time).

    1. Must admit, Marine was the first thing that came into my head. But the clue said Army elite unit, and Marines are not army; they are Navy. Army elite unit, as far as Brits are concerned is SAS (though being ex-navy myself I think the SBS are better, but I am just bias 😛 )

      As soon as I realised King was K, Kansas just fell in for me.

    2. If I’d thought of MARINE I would never have corrected it. Not often that a “wrong” answer fits so well.

  37. Could only solve 6 clues, not even enough to get any help. Really beyond my level. Dispiriting.
    1. Same, a very unsatisfying 1hr20 and still incomplete and with errors. Should have given up long before and looked at the blog. They are not normally this impossible, I am sure!
      1. Not usually, no. We enjoy them immensely and find a completed one, very satisfying. Let’s hope it was just a blip.
  39. I didn’t enjoy this much (Nina ? schmina !)

    I was already just over target before spending 90 seconds trying to fit anything into 12D. Had I been online I could have backed out “astr”, but I was on paper AND in ink, so it didn’t exactly help me ! When the truth emerged, it was the only clue in the whole puzzle to impress me (although SCURRIES made me smile).

    FOI AMBLED
    LOI & COD ANTIHERO (aka our Editor !)
    TIME 6:35

  40. But came to a dead end with Freeze — and hence didn’t get Antihero… I was going round the twist.
    that’s the second time I’ve failed on or near the last with a hidden — only this time a reverse hidden!
    Will the lesson ever be learnt?
    Time will tell.
    No time , I fell asleep in the middle of this- about 30 minutes and a DNF
    But enjoyed in a perverse way.
    Just assumed 21d was an error but half thought of Mr Rotter’s idea and moved on.
    Thanks all
    John George

  41. While I feel somewhat cheated of the time I put into this, very pleased to know everyone pretty much felt the same. I do hope this one doesn’t make it into the printed compilations, which I started with. If I’d had this to contend with early on I’d have given up entirely.

    Many thanks to william for the blog and others for all the comments to ease the dissatisfaction! And an applaud to Felix for a clearly very very clever puzzle, just please make it a 15×15 next time!

  42. Over my head as well. I managed about a third, biffed a few and put a couple in from checkers. Then went to my last resort approach of trying ideas on my phone. That’s how I finally realised I wasn’t looking for an anagram of star at 12d. Had no idea for 18d. On the other hand, I did work out 14a, once I’d got the initial ‘e’.

    Serves me right for being smug about finishing yesterday.. Ho hum.

  43. Good heavens, that took us a whopping 37 minutes to complete. It took us back to our days in “QC nursery” when we always seemed to need 30 mins to solve the QC. I hope that newer QC’ers don’t give up because of this puzzle – it was really hard. We’re very happy to have completed the puzzle, even though we had to biff a couple of the answers. Thanks Felix – you nearly outfoxed us today.

    FOI: grew
    LOI: freeze
    COD: antihero

    Thanks for the excellent blog William.

  44. Rather smugly worked easily through NE corner and then ground to a halt.

    I still am struggling to understand the indicators for ANTIHERO (one before and one after the words, but linked up?)

    Some fun challenges for a relative novice like me (a ‘First Lockdown learner’) : FARMER , KANSAS (was not thinking geographic state) and EGO.

    1. Regarding the indicator being found before and after the fodder – this does happen occasionally (I only remember because it is very clunky to try and explain in the blog).

      Take “before hit national” as a single component, X:

      Upset X shows = reversal of X reveals.

      As others have commented, ‘shows’ is a bit thin for ‘hides’ or ‘contains’, but is used very commonly.

  45. Very slow going today and I can’t say that I really enjoyed it, with the exception of a couple of standout clues. Finished in 25 mins but hadn’t parsed antihero, ease or mosquito.

    FOI – 10ac GREW
    LOI – 22 ac FREEZE
    COD – 20ac SCURRIES

    Thanks to William for a heroic blog.

  46. Didn’t think I was going to finish this, but was pleased to grind it out, albeit in 56:30. Forgot to parse ANTIHERO properly after a PDM and found plenty chewy, but unlike some others I didn’t really find anything unfair. With 21d I just took ‘oddly’ to mean “every other letter” and then skipped as an anagrind. I didn’t notice the letters were reversed. MER at the word REVERSER, but it’s no more obscure than other words that often appear. Had ONE in for 14a at first, but then as soon as 3d went in I saw what the right answer was. Overall, plenty to enjoy. COD to FARMER. Thanks all.
  47. This certainly doesn’t give any more indication that it is possible than any of the previous attempts. It does seem to show that you need a good editor, and the impossibility of properly editing ones own work. Completed in a hideously long time, and fully parsed apart from 18d, by which time I had lost the will to live.

  48. I’ve had a busy week and this was my first chance to try the QC. Looks like I picked the wrong day. DNF for me too, struggling to try and find something starting with Arts for “antihero” and several more were beyond me. Think I’ll go back and try the previous day’s for hopefully more joy. Thanks William for the blog and much needed explanations.

  49. I am late to the party but I’m glad I turned up because I thought my solve of 14 minutes rather slow….but perhaps not. I wholeheartedly agree that there is something missing from 21d. I went with EASE anyway. I saw the tail end of the NINA just as I put in my LOI ANTIHERO.

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