Times Quick Cryptic No 1513 by Orpheus

Author   TheRotterPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
Maybe I’m a little jaded after yesterday’s festivities, but this took me 20 minutes, well outside my target range.  Other than one slightly questionable answer (17a – see below), I can’t see any real excuse for my poor performance – it will be interesting to see how you all did!

There are a couple of pieces of slightly esoteric GK (PLANGENT, TOKAY, FARTHING and ISM), and I remember stumbling over DURESS and RELY (where I wanted to enter LEVY (bank) but couldn’t justify it).  Thanks Orpheus for a nice little challenge.

Please enjoy the remainder of your holiday season.  My next scheduled blog is on the 9th January 2020, when all the hullaballoo will be over.  Happy New Year!

Across

1.  Body politic, say (5)
STATE – Double definition, the first referring to the collective body of the people.
4  Wine greeting worker in Channel Islands (7)
CHIANTI – HI (greeting) plus ANT (worker) all inside CI (Channel Islands).  One of my faves!
8 Instance of former politician overwhelmed by drink (7)
EXAMPLE – EX (former) followed by MP (politician) inside (overwhelmed by) ALE (drink).  There are quite a few EX MPs around at the moment!
9  Doctor rejected attack – a distinctive idea (5)
MOTIF – MO (doctor – medical officer) and FIT (attack) reversed (rejected).
10  Appropriate legwear, reportedly, for one spreading the message? (10)
PROPAGATOR – Sounds like (reportedly) PROPER GAITER (appropriate legwear).  Gaiters are coverings for the lower leg, similar to puttees.
14  Studied art mostly in period of abstinence (6)
LEARNT – AR{t} (mostly) inside LENT (period of abstinence).
15  Iron Lady’s felt hat (6)
FEDORA – FE (Iron – chemical symbol) and DORA (lady).  My FOI after my eye fell on the clue, and also a candidate for CoD.
17  Toys, donuts, being flogged?  That’s fairly good (3,2,5)
NOT SO DUSTY – Anagram (being flogged) of [TOYS, DONUTS].  A bit of a strange answer this, as the phrase doesn’t trip lightly off my tongue at least, and isn’t listed in my usual sources as being in common English usage.  I think it is a weak clue, one of those loose ends that compilers sometimes get left with at the end of a set, when they can’t find anything better to fit, and don’t want to rework the grid or surrounding clues to come up with something better.  Having said that, the phrase can be found on-line, and is usually defined as ‘fairly good’, and it was the title of a 1956 British comedy, so maybe it is in wider use than I hitherto thought.
20  Musical entertainment viewed in the Adelphi originally? (5)
EVITA – Original letters of E{ntertainment} V{iewed} I{n} T{he} A{delphi}.  It took me a while to realise what was going on here, but it is actually quite a simple and familiar device, well hidden!
22  Copy flightless bird no longer living (7)
EMULATE – EMU (flightless bird) and LATE (no longer living).
23  Worried sister nursing head of 11’s big cat (7)
TIGRESS – Anagram (worried) of [SISTER] and the first letter of the answer to 11 (down) which is G.  Some don’t like cross-referential clues like this, but I don’t have a problem with them.
24  Wine from Hungary, ultimately just right (5)
TOKAY – Last letter of (ultimately) {jus}T and OKAY (right).  TOKAY is worth remembering – it comes up from time to time in Crosswordland, along with other favourite wines such as 4a.  Jackkt probably has a list of acceptable wine answers somewhere!

Down
1  Fat woman on top of tram (4)
SUET – SUE (woman) on first letter of (top of) T{ram}.  After yesterday’s bingeing, it will be a while before I’m ready to face a SUET pudding again!
2  A mother?  He didn’t have one! (4)
ADAM – A (a) and DAM (mother).
3  Pet reason for developing an artificial language (9)
ESPERANTO – Anagram (for developing) of [PET REASON].
4  Inexpensive old banger impounded by commanding officer (6)
CHEAPO – HEAP (old banger) inside (impounded by) CO (Commanding Officer).
5  Unspecified doctrine originally inspiring so many (3)
ISM – First letters of (originally) I{nspiring} S{o} M{any}.
6  Idea about army musicians method of writing (8)
NOTATION – NOTION (idea) surrounding (about) TA (army – Territorial Army).  Referring to musical NOTATION, a method for scoring (writing) music.
7  Relaxed boy attending class first (8)
INFORMAL – IN FORM (attending class) followed by (first) AL (boy).
11  Senior relative finally fuming about a gibe (5-4)
GREAT-AUNT – Last letter (finally) of {fumin}G with RE (about) A (a) TAUNT (gibe).
12  Information secured by factory – it makes us mournful (8)
PLANGENT – GEN (information) inside (secured by) PLANT (factory).  To be PLANGENT is to resound mournfully.
13  Distant object, something of negligible value once (8)
FARTHING – FAR (distant) and THING (object).  A FARTHING was a coin in common use in my childhood, with a value of one quarter of one penny in the old LSD system.  Negligibleness is a relative concept, and as an ankle-biter, a farthing was far from negligible for me – it would allow me to purchase a single fruit salad or black jack – something which had great worth in my world.
16  Line up outside initially under coercion (6)
DURESS – DRESS (line up, as in on a parade ground) outside (outside) first letter of (initially) U{nder}.
18  Mediocre journalist’s horse (4)
HACK – Double definition.
19  River to north of Cambs city bank? (4)
RELY – R{iver} above (to the north of) ELY (city in Cambridgeshire (Cambs)).  To bank on something is to RELY on it.
21  A couple of points engendering reverential fear (3)
AWE – A (a) followed by W{est} and E{ast} (couple of points – of the compass).

33 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic No 1513 by Orpheus”

  1. Slowed down by a couple, including EVITA and TIGRESS as I recall; slow to twig to the wordplay in both. But it was NOT SO DUSTY that took the time: I had never come across the phrase–and it’s something of a comfort to see that our British blogger didn’t know it either–and it was not easy for me to arrange the anagrist in my head, as I always do with Quickies. 7:09.
  2. I wondered why NOT SO DUSTY came to mind pretty quickly – it was in a Guardian crossword by Paul last month (Pretty good toys stuffed, tummies originally getting squeezed). Paul had previously used it in another Guardian puzzle 18 months ago (Decent result of spring-cleaning). However Orpheus is not Paul. 3:48 for me
    1. Managed this one here by deduction as I had never heard the expression before, but could not work out how it fits with “Pretty good toys stuffed, tummies originally getting squeezed”.
  3. A rare DNF here. I had all but 1ac as 15 minutes approached, then did two unsuccessful alphabet trawls and decided enough was enough. Obviously I had considered STATE but didn’t recognise that it fitted the definition as I had been thinking of ‘say’ as giving an example rather than being a second definition. I also forgot to go back and parse TIGRESS where I was missing the cross-referenced word when I wrote in the answer.

    I was slightly surprised by Rotter saying that farthings were around in his childhood as I was sure he’s younger than I am and I hadn’t remembered their still being in use although I was aware they had existed. But it’s strange the tricks the mind plays because on checking I find that they were legal tender until 1961 by which time I was into my teens so I must surely have used them for buying sweets and comics (the ones my parents didn’t approve of). I recall black jacks and fruit salads etc being on sale priced at 4 for 1d but not individually priced at 1/4d.

    I’d no problem with NOT SO DUSTY which is in Collins (on-line and printed), the Oxfords (on-line and printed apart from the COED) and Chambers (printed). It generally refers to one’s state of health and is used in response to ‘How are you?’ On checking this I learnt that a ‘dusty answer’ is curt and unhelpful and I’d not come across that saying before.

    Edited at 2019-12-26 05:24 am (UTC)

    1. Forgot to say that the film ‘Not So Dusty’ is doing the rounds occasionally on Talking Pictures TV where I saw it for the first time a couple for years ago. A very rare starring role for the actor Bill Owen (as Dusty) who later became a household name for ‘Last of the Summer Wine’ on TV but for most of his career was little more than a supporting character actor.
    2. I remember farthings quite well, but by the later 1950s they were not in common use. For some reason a white loaf in the local baker’s shop was 10 3/4d, and my mother kept a little stock of farthings for them specifically. Quite a lot of things were (eg) 4 for 1d, but you were expected to buy an even number of them!
    2. How very interesting. I have puzzle 1513 on my iPhone Times app, and puzzle 1514 on my iPad download of the Times! It looks like there has been a mistake somewhere along the line, with tomorrow’s puzzle published today in some versions of the online paper – normally Thursday puzzles end in a 3 for me, or an 8 when Roly blogs on alternate weeks. I haven’t seen the paper version, but I guess it will contain the puzzle I’ve blogged here.

      I also haven’t looked at the club version, but I’m sure Jackkt and Kevin used that and have commented above as if they solved 1513. Maybe someone from the Times can comment.

      1. Incidentally, if the iPad version (1514) is tomorrow’s puzzle, it is half as difficult on the Rotterometer as 1513.
      2. Yes I think Corelli’s is tomorrow’s puzzle. 1513 by Orpheus is definitely the one published in the newspaper

        Edited at 2019-12-26 10:07 am (UTC)

        1. Thanks both – I have not read the blog, in case I get the Orpheus offering tomorrow……
          1. Me too! I enjoyed the Corelli 1514 in the online Times today and will say no more than that I finished it in around 10 mins. Very frustrating today to hit XfortheX and find it referring to a different puzzle. John M.
  5. I thought some of this was quite obscure and had a DNF after 30 minutes with INFORMAL. I had MOTET for 9A for a long time which may have put me off and I’m never good with random names in answers.
    I’ve checked the website and this puzzle came up.
    Thanks to Orpheus and Rotter.

    Brian

  6. I have no excuse for a rather slow solve today. It all went quite well apart from 1a and 1d. After about 12 minutes I only needed those two. Eventually I thought of SUET; EVE had made repeated attempts to get on top of the tram. I began to doubt the final T. Then to the tricky 1a and after two alphabet trawls STATE emerged (COD for me as so easy yet so tricky).
    So I thought I was done but failed to go back to check the proper spelling of Proper Gaiter (wasn’t sure about the Os and the As; no Es?).
    So one wrong after 20 minutes. And a nod to Orpheus for an excellent test.
    David
  7. I hesitated for a while at the end with 1A, until I spotted “say” was the definition, not part of the wordplay, like Jack. Otherwise I found it NOT SO DUSTY. FEDORA is a bit of a chestnut, I think. I had to check… EVITA, alas, didn’t open at the Adelphi, but the Prince Edward Theatre. I liked ADAM too, but COD to TOKAY. 5:33.
  8. I wasn’t particularly familiar with NOT SO DUSTY, but it’s not an expression I’ve never come across, so it didn’t hold me up for long. TOKAY was also a vaguely remembered wine. I started with SUET and STATE, and finished with TOKAY. 8:56. Thanks Orpheus and Rotter.
  9. …Not so dusty. Hack took too long to come to mind. Probably yesterday’s gluttony. Slightly surprised that I came in at 8:21.
  10. I am completely confused. My crossword today is by Corelli. The paper is dated 26th. I must have a special one off paper!
  11. I’m with you on this. There is an expression for ‘good’ which has grown in popular usage which is ‘not so shabby’ but ‘not so dusty’ just isn’t around anymore if it ever was!(I don’t care if there was a 1956 film). A few too many obscurities for me!
  12. I still remember some 80 years later being refused to buy one four a penny sweetie with a farthing !
  13. ….NOT SO DUSTY (which I knew) and was surprised to find myself in 10th place on the leaderboard despite solving it on my phone in what I thought was a slow time (bang on my target limit).

    FOI CHIANTI
    LOI EVITA
    COD PROPAGATOR

    Today’s 15×15 is very accessible, so well worth having a bash !

    Edited at 2019-12-26 01:25 pm (UTC)

  14. How nice to see Orpheus entering into the Christmas spirit… Quite a little teaser for Boxing Day, that required two sittings to finish. NHO 17ac Not So Dusty, and so resisted entering it until the crossers left no choice. Tokay, State, Informal and the DNK Plangent were the other hold-ups along the way. 13d Farthing brought a smile, but overall this was hard work. Invariant
    1. Excellent question! Having just spent the day at Fontwell Park, I should have thought to look.
  16. I found this a slog, just scraping in under the 20 minute mark. I found some of the vocabulary fairly obscure and was clearly on a very different wavelength from Orpheus so was relieved when I finally finished. On a brighter note at least I had the correct puzzle to answer.
    Thanks for the blog
  17. After a break yesterday this was a DNF for me. Maybe it was too much Christmas cheer, but I just couldn’t get some of the NW corner (“Suet”, “State”, “Adam” etc) which I am sure I would have got on any other day.

    Whilst I managed 17ac, I also found this somewhat obscure (along with a few other answers already mentioned).

    Hopefully a better day tomorrow.

  18. Why could I not answer 19 down?? I knew the answer was STODGE but it would not let me insert it !!!
  19. I finally found this on the Times Puzzle Club site after didn’t appear on the Times app (where it was replaced by Corelli 1514 on Thursday). Orpheus 1513 was slow going for me with a time close to Rotter’s. I liked PLANGENT, DURESS, ISM, PROPAGATOR, EXAMPLE but I was rather slow to see SUET. Good puzzle. Thanks. John M.

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