Times Quick Cryptic 1881 by Orpheus

Author   ChrisPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic

If Orpheus was on AM then I was on DAB. A rare dnf for me as I couldn’t solve the long 4dn without all the checkers and I felt I had no chance of 9ac (I hadn’t heard of either of the definitions) and I couldn’t get the clever 23ac without the first letter. So somewhat dissatisfying but that’s down to me. If I’d approached this with the patience I reserve for the 15x15s then maybe I could have done better. I approach the QC more as a romp so was probably too impatient. Please let me know how you got on as I can then judge the difficulty of the puzzle or (highly likely) my sluggishness.

I’ve enjoyed the clever and concise clueing but I’m not as keen on the two names which cropped up in the parsing – although I think Mr. S may enjoy the references.

Definitions are underlined.

Across
1 Twilight start to drive by Welsh river (4)
DUSK – (D)rive by Welsh river (USK).
3 Enchanting girl entering Italian island from east (8)
ADORABLE – a random girl (DORA) inside Italian island – Elba – from the east (ABLE).
9 Title of head of household once — Benny, possibly? (7)
GOODMAN – double definition. The first is archaic for husband/master of household. The second was a US jazz clarinetist and band leader.
10 Modest abode originally, and not a landed estate (5)
MANOR – (M)odest, (A)bode, and not (NOR).
11 Old US president protected by British motorcyclist (5)
BIKER – old US president (IKE) surrounded by British (BR).
12 Line on map observed at first in island pub (6)
ISOBAR – (O)bserved inside island (IS) and pub (BAR).
14 Duplicitous lookalike distributing cards at table (6-7)
DOUBLE-DEALING – lookalike (DOUBLE), distributing cards at table (DEALING).
17 Tree planted in April in Denmark (6)
LINDEN – inside Apri(L IN DEN)mark.
19 Relax about initiation of important exam (5)
RESIT – relax (REST) about (I)mportant.
22 Bouquet given by a painter accepting high honour (5)
AROMA – a (A), painter (RA) including high honour (OM).
23 Bizarre situation of constable doing desk job (7)
OFFBEAT – a constable doing a desk job would be off the beat. I quite liked that one.
24 Castigate young creature breaking seat (8)
LAMBASTE – young creature (LAMB), anagram (breaking) of SEAT.
25 Nail leader of rowdies in criminal environment (4)
BRAD – (R)owdies inside (in the environment of)  criminal (BAD).
Down
1 Factotum one sort of boxer would have (8)
DOGSBODY – one sort of boxer is a dog so would have a (DOG’S BODY).
2 Loose garment some initially laugh at (5)
SMOCK – (S)ome, laugh at (MOCK).
4 New inn dominated by duke’s small terrier (6,7)
DANDIE DINMONT – anagram (new) of INN DOMINATED by (beside/next to/underneath) duke (D). Collins has a trend of word usage graph which shows this dog first being talked about in about 1800, never used very much, and pretty well petering out in recent times. I suppose this puzzle will increase it’s ‘hits’.
5 Shakespearean hero with capital O (5)
ROMEO – capital (ROME), O (O). Concise and clever.
6 Asian girl visiting W African state endlessly (7)
BENGALI – girl (GAL) inside W African state endlessly (BENI)n.
7 Peer demanding attention last of all (4)
EARL – attention (EAR – as in ‘lend me your’), al(L). ‘Demanding’ seems to be a surface filler.
8 American chap pinches gold, having no principles (6)
AMORAL – American (AM), random chap (AL).
13 Uneasy, having stirred up trouble (8)
AGITATED – double definition.
15 College class’s prescribed clothing (7)
UNIFORM – college (UNI), class (FORM).
16 Daughter interrupting a break at sea? (6)
ADRIFT – daughter (D) inside a (A) and break (RIFT). Another clever clue.
18 Theatrical piece by doctor, an arts graduate (5)
DRAMA – doctor (DR), an arts graduate (A MA).
20 Scorn prophet welcoming knight on board (5)
SNEER – prophet (SEER) welcoming on board knight on a chess board (N).
21 Post a person of masculine gender talked of (4)
MAIL – homophone (talked of) of ‘of masculine gender’ – male. Don’t often get 3 ‘of”s lined up in a sentence.

100 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic 1881 by Orpheus”

  1. Bit of a literary flavour to this, with ‘Young Goodman Brown’ the title of a short story by Nathaniel Hawthorne, and Dandie Dinmont being named after a fictional character in Sir Walter Scott’s second novel, Guy Mannering.
  2. About 25 minutes and surprised it wasn’t longer. Quite a difficult puzzle which I found enjoyable. Didn’t parse everything. Thought I was on to a quick time at first – got 1ac straight away and ten clues on first pass. I was all over the grid after that, becoming bogged down in the NW corner. Elsewhere, I tried abroad which didn’t parse, and meant I couldn’t get offbeat so it had to be wrong. I searched my head for the alternative to abroad and was surprised when I found it. Offbeat was then the only answer, and it parsed. I stuck Benny Goodman in and he opened up dogsbody, biker and smock for me. I’d heard of the dog but didn’t know it was a terrier. Thanks, Chris for the blog, and Orpheus for the entertainment. GW.
  3. My track record against Orpheus is poor (solve rate ~30%) and Mrs Random’s Orpheus solve rate is ~50% (vs >90% for all of the other regular setters). Needless to say, we both DNF’d today. Mrs R finished in 57 minutes (having guessed the dog correctly), but unfortunately had PROD instead of BRAD, whereas I gave up the ghost after 66 minutes with 7 clues unsolved (the wretched dog, plus the entire SE corner).

    Mrs R’s time indicates that this was not a QC and, I’m afraid that both of us are now wondering whether we should give Orpheus a miss in future. Mrs R doesn’t like spending more than one cup of coffee on the puzzle, and I just get too demoralised when I can’t even get close to finishing.

    Sorry for my gloomy post today (let’s hope for more joy tomorrow), but thanks anyway to Orpheus and to chrisw91.

    1. I beg your pardon – I referenced you in the preamble and mistakenly chose the first letter of your title – Mr S. rather than Mr. R.
  4. Dandie Dinmont an old friend – my COD & WOD and my third one in! PG Tips Tea cards in the fifties were a great source of GK for animals, birds, butterflies and flowers. before that it was ‘fag’ cards.

    FOI 21dn MAIL

    LOI 1ac DUSK!

    I admire the way folks list all things they don’t know!
    Experienced solvers make mention of the things they do know, which makes life interesting.

    Lovely crossword – 13:45min.

    More Orpheus please!

    Edited at 2021-05-25 10:49 am (UTC)

    1. I know about town planning and Yeovil Town through the ages. Very happy to talk about both (much, much) more but setters never seem to give me the opportunity.
        1. Can we pretend I’ve got some checkers?
          Two theories — up the glovers clues TY making the second word city but I can’t make Stoke Ci out of the rest

          Or, I need be insert IM into a quiet place

          Or, biff Green Army from enumeration!

            1. Good grief. Thanks Chris for taking on extra hints work and profuse apologies to you Merlin for my patheticness!

              DNF for QC, Telegraph and now this!

  5. … because I’d never heard of a BRAD… Curses. I knew the dog and was happy with the Benny. I saw the ADORABLE BENGALI, too. In fact, I was feeling mightily pleased with myself at having spent just over 25 minutes on a difficult puzzle with just one clue to go, 25 across. But I just couldn’t think of a nail that was *R*D. It didn’t help that the only criminal environment I could think of was a den. I was looking for a noun not an adjective.
    Ah, well… Sigh. I very much liked this puzzle nevertheless, especially 1 down.
    With thanks to Chris and to Orpheus.
    1. LJ, can you remember a novel where the heroine’s mother breeds and is obsessed by Dandie Dinmonts and so the (adult) heroine feels neglected?
      1. This is from Sarah B’s post below. Is it useful?

        Gerald Durrell’s “Mother” had a Dandy Dinmont called Dodo in “My Family and Other Animals”, so no problem here!
        Sarah B

        1. I’ve racked my brain but can’t think of anything other than the Scott novel, Guy Mannering…intrigued!!
  6. A stinker and hence another DNF. NHO DANDIE DINMONT or BRAD and could not see OFFBEAT without initial letter and trying (fruitlessly obviously) to fit PC (constable) into answer. Not sure of LAMBASTE with an ‘E’ or scorn = SNEER either. Got GOODMAN straight away. Not having a good week.
  7. I knew I had heard of the dog as soon as the first D went in but needed a lot of checkers to then be sure of the spelling. Other than that, I must have been tuned in as I worked my way down the grid slowly but steadily. Liked OFFBEAT and ADRIFT. Don’t know why I knew the nail but it went in easily. I enjoyed this one so thanks to Orpheus, even if I appear to be in a minority today.
  8. Only held up by the dog — needed all of the checkers and then just put the remaining 6 letters in the least-likely-to-be-wrong order.
  9. The thing is I’ve seen comments before about DANDIE DINMONT, maybe here, maybe on the other side. I expect Jack’s database would come up with how often it’s appeared. As we so often say, one person’s GK etc etc, but this breed of terrier really isn’t that obscure. In fact, back in 2016 (according to Country Life) the DD was Britain’s third most popular breed of terrier. Mind you, that is a very particular readership!
    Anyway, I had a very slow start, only getting going a third of the way down the grid, but things started to motor once I got BIKER and I came in at 10 minutes. Based on everyone else’s comments, I’m going to claim this as a Good Day, although it is really just my target 😉
    I really enjoyed this one – lots of great surfaces and clever cryptics. I sort of reverse engineered BRAD from bradawl, LAMBASTE looks odd with the extra E, and GOODMAN took his time (4/4, 6/8?), but I really liked OFFBEAT and DOGSBODY.
    FOI Biker
    LOI Smock
    COD Romeo – it took will power to push Othello to one side!
    Many thanks Orpheus and Chris
    1. Just to point out it’s not my database, but everybody’s. I don’t know the layout on all devices but on a standard PC or laptop there’s a Search field at the top-right of the page indicated by a magnifying glass icon.

      A search on DINMONT suggests that the hound has come up only twice prior to today, in a 15×15 10 years ago and a Mephisto a year before that.

      1. You’re a marvel, Jack, that’s a great tip!

        Currently enjoying the 2011 comments on the Dandie Dinmont: “Didn’t know the darned dog”, “last in the dog, which I’d obviously never heard of”, “(unknown)”, “Total guess at the dog”, “The dog was new to me”, “came up with DONDIE DINMONT”, “the dastardly dog”, “I had DENNIS DINMONT for the dog”, “a wrong guess at DANDIE DENMONT”, “I had to resort to aids for the dog”, “had to cheat for the unheard of dog”, and “not having heard of ‘Dandie Dinmont'”. To be fair three people had heard of it …including Kevin! (“I imagine it as a little obnoxious terrier with its head hair tied up in a ribbon”)

      2. Where’s my humble pie? I’d better eat it! Sorry — just goes to show how the memory plays tricks. I was sure we’d seen it more recently. I must admit that I didn’t know about how to access the database — I’d just assumed that you have it at your fingertips. Thanks for the tip 😊

  10. DNF for me. I managed the terrier with all the checkers and the anagram eventually, but also biffed Prod for Brad which I’d never heard of.

    Nice to see the beautiful Elba appearing, the subject of my favourite palindrome: “Able I was ‘ere I saw Elba”

  11. Failed on GOODMAN and carelessly biffed Slack instead of SMOCK. Oh, and looked up BRAD.
    It so happens I thought of the DANDIE DINMONT almost straight away as soon as I got DOUBLE DEALING but also thought it was spelt Dandy so hesitated. (Failed to notice anagram)
    Very fast to start with but then stuck on the above, having reckoned at first that it was going to be A Good Day.
    Actually I admit I do very vaguely remember Benny Goodman, and I once read a novel where the heroine’s mother bred Dandie Dinmonts.
    FOsI DUSK, DOGSBODY (good clue). Also liked OFFBEAT, BIKER, ROMEO.
    Thanks vm as ever, Chris.
    1. I did wonder whether you might struggle with Benny Goodman as being the wrong music!! Expect he often played in a combo!
  12. Well I had heard of the dog but was unsure how to spell it so waited for most of the checkers. NHO brad as a sort of nail but it seemed likely. Got goodman (having heard of Benny) by extension from goodwife, which I knew. Would never have spelled lambaste with a final e. All in all another tough workout, finished in 26 mins. Some lovely clues though, so thanks to Orpheus and Chris.

    FOI – 11ac BIKER
    LOI – 23ac OFFBEAT
    COD – 1dn DOGSBODY (with an honourable mention to 23ac OFFBEAT)

  13. Well over the hour compared with my usual less than 20 minutes!! It felt like a 15 x 15 really — not that I minded as that’s the level I’m aiming for, but I would have been very discouraged a few years ago. I had to google ‘small terriers’ to get the dog, even with the checkers, so technically a DNF. NHO GOODMAN either but I biffed it.
  14. Gerald Durrell’s “Mother” had a Dandy Dinmont called Dodo in “My Family and Other Animals”, so no problem here!
    Sarah B
  15. …and got there in the end. I remembered that over 45 years ago a housemate I shared a student house with was always referring to his useful tools, one of which was a bradawl for helping get nails into wood. Useful carpentry knowledge in the recesses of my memory!
  16. 4:39 for what I thought was a nicely pitched QC by Orpheus although I realise I may be in a minority today.
    Helped by knowing the wretched hound from somewhere (although I have always found Scott’s novels rather tedious I’m afraid) and the anagram made me realise I would have misspelled it otherwise. The crossers provided by the mutt helped me clinch 23 ac “Offbeat” which was my COD.
    NHO “goodman” as a household term but fortunately had heard of Benny.
    Thanks to Chris and Orpheus
  17. ….having continued to hide the setters name I revealed it after 25 minutes knowing that it just had to be ‘awful Orpheus’. Threw in the towel having looked up Dandie Dinmont with 5 left unsolved.
    It had to be Goodman but NHO old title.
    Not in the mood today perhaps.
    Thanks all
    John George

    Edited at 2021-05-25 02:58 pm (UTC)

  18. Tough today despite one of us knowing the dog and the other knowing the goodman from reading historical novels. Enjoyed 23a. Took time to sort out the ne corner, but got there in the end. No idea about time, but longer than usual.
  19. ….was the definition part of GOODMAN, but “The King of Swing” was a shoo-in (and seemed to match OK).

    The guy who used to mend our Radio Rentals telly in the 70’s always thought our West Highland White Terrier was a DANDIE DINMONT. The washing machine engineer thought she was a Sealyham !

    Solved within target, but with the realisation that many would struggle.

    FOI DUSK
    LOI LAMBASTE
    COD MANOR
    TIME 4:01

  20. Tough, a workout, for 23 minutes, so, satisfying to be able to complete.
    DNK Brad, but Brod, Bred, Brid, Brud and Bryd didn’t make a word with -awl, so I took a punt.
    Thanks to Orpheus and blogger.
  21. Dandie Dinmont? Anyone who has read Gerald Durrell’s early years autobiography “My family and other animals” might recall that his mother owned one in the 1930s, when they were living in Corfu. 
  22. After a slow start things started to pick up, and I dredged up DANDIE DINMONT from the recesses of my memory but NHO BRAD and just couldn’t work it out, so another DNF.
  23. A brad-awl is so-called because it’s an awl (a handtool with a wooden handle holding a short sharp-pointed metal spike) used to make holes in wood, to “start” a brad – used, as someone else has commented, to hold a pane of glass in place while the putty is applied. Also used by shoe-repairers, saddlers etc to pierce holes in leather to make it easier to sew – hence the phrase “What a load of cobblers” – an abbreviation of “cobblers’ awls” = balls.   
    1. A bradawl can indeed be used to make small holes in leather to allow needles to be pushed through more easily but neat holes in belts would, of course, be made with a hole punch. However, bradawls should not be confused with brads — these are little nails that are used by cobblers to fix leather or rubber heels to men’s or women’s shoes in addition to adhesive. I think I mentioned this this morning. John.

      Edited at 2021-05-26 07:28 am (UTC)

  24. Needed aids for this! NHO Dandie Dinmont. Goodman was a write in. Didn’t know the alternative spelling to get the e for lambaste. Bifd Earl. No problem with linden. I have several bradawls so brad was ok by reduction – people have mentioned the UK uses but I am more familiar with it as a US term rather than as common UK usage. FOI 1a Dusk. LOI 16d Adrift. COD 23a Offbeat. Lots of nice clues but tested my GK, eventually beyond breaking point with the small terrier. So thx for a very helpful blog from Chris, and a fair but too testing puzzle from Orpheus.

    Edited at 2021-05-25 07:05 pm (UTC)

  25. As a gesture to the Dandie Dinmont I shall change my avatar to a picture of our Bedlington terrier which may be similarly unrecognised in the South of England and a subject of some ridicule, but a creature with a lamblike appearance and matching temperament.

    I was doing well until I put in OFFICER for constable doing desk job, and then crammed in JACOB for the prophet (OB On Board) accompanied by a sinking feeling of failure. Managed to put in MA twice (18D and 22A) until parsed 22A as OM.
    Difficult (8 on my scale) and all in all around 50 minutes in 3 goes due to too many simultaneous events.

    After my recent unfortunate bout of ill health I needed a follow up blood test. I duly presented myself to the GP surgery ready to bare an arm only to be told “We don’t do blood tests here any more, you have to drive to the Park and Ride where you wind your window down, stick your arm out and they will do it there”. Duly done. Bizarre.
    Our GP surgery don’t see patients anymore (Zoom) and now don’t take bloods either. Makes me wonder.
    Also wonder what other examinations they do in the Park and Ride via the driver’s window. Mind boggles!

    Thanks Orpheus and Chris

    Edited at 2021-05-25 07:11 pm (UTC)

    1. I went to a drive in blood test and was surprised by the queue of cars and that I had to open the door, swivel out and meet the ‘blood letter’ face to face. No problem though.
  26. I came late to the blog, as is often the case, as I didn’t get to the QC until after dinner. Expected a few complaints about dandie dinmont but was rather taken aback by the amount of vitriol! Didn’t think it was that obscure… Surely, a word one doesn’t know is just a hole in one’s vocabulary, just because I don’t know it, doesn’t mean it’s obscure. Oh well… And it was an anagram, so that should have helped. Over 90 comments! Looking back at 2017 (as I’ve been working through QC Book 4) they were around 30 or less.

    Anyway,this must be a Good Day as I finished without needing aids, knowing almost all the vocabulary, even BRAD and (Benny) GOODMAN – but not the old title for head of household – but it was a clear enough possibility for it to go straight in. Couldn’t parse OFFBEAT but it’s clear enough after the explanation, thanks Chris.

    Edited at 2021-05-25 08:10 pm (UTC)

    1. Not sure there’s vitriol. Some frustration, perhaps that a quick solve wasn’t on the cards. There’s also a fair bit to say. Personally, I wished I’d had more patience. GK is an interesting thing – if you have it then you’re on wavelength, if not, well. Pleased you had a Good Day. I’m completely with you on the QC comments. When this started there was little interest – as a blogger, it’s gratifying to know that people find it useful – especially the inexperienced.
  27. Ridiculously hard
    After 5 minutes and no answers I had to check I wasn’t doing the 15×15
    Ridiculous dog. Didn’t get adorable or Bangali. Brad? Bad criminal environment- I had that as den. Offbeat
    I don’t get Orpheus. Too much for me. Random girl’s names and very tenuous definitions.
    Ugh
    Nick
  28. Another DNF. Completely blind in the top half bar AMORAL. Yet reading the blog, it wasn’t impossible. Sometimes it’s just not your day….
    1. Going through the blog for answers you didn’t get, which you’ve done, is the best way of improving how you then approach the next ones. When you know that a clue you can’t see CAN be broken down, it gives that bit of confidence to keep ‘dismantling’ it.
  29. Why are people being so horrid about Dandie Dinmonts? They are lovely little dogs. Used I believe to breed with Dachshunds to create the wire haired dachshunds. The loss of these old breeds like the Sealyham terrier also is very sad as the modern fancy is. more for ‘oodles’ of various natures. GK is a varied beast. I know nothing of nails and cricket but I don’t worry when the clues relate to these or say that silly offleg or whatever is ridiculous!!
    1. Not horrid about our 4 legged chums – I love ’em – just at the clue being so tricky – some would say unfair – to unravel.

Comments are closed.