Times Quick Cryptic 1827 by Jalna

Author   william_j_sPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
I failed to see 1ac on first pass (the topic not being my strongest subject) so this was a bottom up solve for me. A little over average time, possibly owing to the above, but all seems de rigueur in retrospect. COD to 13dn for the time I accidentally described someone as “in the pudding club” to friends, and was immediately scolded for being rude – a good example of crosswordland and the real world not really mixing very well!

As an aside, Felix left a tantalising message (assuming it’s genuine) on my last blog, to say that there was a Nina. I’ve wracked my brains and can’t see it. Perhaps you can help – I’ll post an image of the completed grid below.

Definitions underlined.

Across
1 Team not entirely fluid in possession of ball (6,6)
LEYTON ORIENT – anagram of (fluid) NOT ENTIRELY containing (in possession) of O (ball).
8 To the left, space to tie up boat (4)
MOOR – reversal of (to the left) ROOM (space).
9 Insult, loud, in a van (7)
AFFRONT – F (forte, loud) contained by (in) A and FRONT (vanguard, van).
11 Newborn child? No, a teen, strangely (7)
NEONATE – anagram of (strangely) NO A TEEN.
12 The best chocolate ultimately low in calories (5)
ELITE – last letter of (ultimately) chocolatE then LITE (low in calories).
14 Old organ used for stage musical (6)
OLIVER – O (old) and LIVER (organ).
15 Underground place, mostly nasty and hot on the inside (6)
GROTTO – all-but-the-last letter of (mostly) GROTTy (nasty), then the middle letter of (on the inside) hOt.
18 Ace captain, winning (5)
AHEAD – A (ace) and HEAD (captain).
20 Sign attached to back of iron gate (7)
POSTERN – POSTER (sign) then the last letter (back) of iroN.
21 Tooth in front of canine is yellow (7)
INCISOR – IN, first letter (front) of Canine, IS, then OR (yellow, or gold in heraldry).
23 Spot unwanted visitor in the garden (4)
MOLE – double definition. One would be very welcome in mine.
24 An outstanding feature of our economy? (8,4)
NATIONAL DEBT – cryptic definition.

Down
2 Energy company distributed monies, cut costs (9)
ECONOMISE – E (energy), CO (company), and an anagram of (distributed) MONIES.
3 Sailors having starter of eel, served raw (7)
TARTARE – TAR and TAR (sailors) with the first letter (starter) of Eel.
4 New diner is less cluttered (6)
NEATER – N (new) and EATER (diner).
5 Get irritated about loud weapon (5)
RIFLE – RILE (get irritated) containing (about) F (forte, loud).
6 Broody music featured in zombie movie (3)
EMO – hidden in (featured in) zombiE MOvie.
7 Appropriate, small amount of alcohol bloke stirred in pot (2,3,5)
TO THE POINT – TOT (small amount of alcohol), HE (bloke), and an anagram of (stirred) IN POT.
10 Hotel getting prolonged applause for introduction of fresh ideas (10)
INNOVATION – INN (hotel) and OVATION (prolonged applause).
13 Expecting free lunch, I bet! (2,3,4)
IN THE CLUB – anagram of (free) LUNCH I BET.
16 Took a liberty ignoring leader and started again (7)
RESUMED – pRESUMED (took a liberty) missing its first letter (ignoring leader).
17 Ambushes set up next to a city long ago (6)
SPARTA – TRAPS (ambushes) reversed (set up) then (next to) A.
19 Dance tunes made with snippet of Verdi score (5)
DISCO – hidden in (made with snippet of) verDI SCOre.
22 Dock workers’ organisation on the rise (3)
CUT – TUC (Trade Union Council, workers organisation) reversed (on the rise).

As promised, below is the completed grid for puzzle 1817 by Felix. His comment was, “There’s a Nina in this puzzle but rather an obscure one”. Can you find it, and put me out of my misery?

70 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic 1827 by Jalna”

  1. I needed 14 minutes to complete the grid, missing my 10-minute target again. Like our blogger I also suffered from being unable to identify the team at 1ac early on, and having to solve bottom up. If I’d realised it was going to be an anagram I would have persevered as I know the names of all the main UK clubs through years of sitting through football results on TV as a child. Not that I was interested in them, but they were always read out just before ‘Children’s TV’ on a Saturday afternoon, and seemed to go on for ever.

    I was expecting a Nina in that Felix puzzle but couldn’t find one. It may help to know that his last four Ninas have had Dickens themes but I think we can rule that out this time. Before that there was one on Paddington Bear, two with numerical themes, one featuring vowel patterns and one on the Peasant’s Revolt.

    Edited at 2021-03-10 05:41 am (UTC)

  2. Biffed INCISOR, never got around to parsing it. LEYTON ORIENT took a lot of time, since I’d never heard of it. 8:41.
  3. 10 mins on all the clues apart from LEYTON ORIENT, then 10 fruitless minutes looking for it. The checkers left many ways to fill with vowels and consonants, so alphabet trawls didn’t work. I missed the anagram, and was looking for other cognates for “ball”. When I used to listen to football scores I think they were just called “Orient”.

    No other problems today, shame as was heading for a good time but “them’s the breaks”

    COF TARTARE

    2. Hi Merlin. I keep seeing references to an alphabet trawl. Is this a systematic process or just doing what I sometimes intuitively do and simply go through in my mind possible candidates for missing letters?

      Any enlightenment would help. Many thanks.

      Stephen

      1. You have the right idea. I occasionally use paper and run through the alphabet trying to see what letters might work in the spaces. When there are two blanks it doesn’t take too long. With 6, like today it’s not systematic, and not very effective.
        Shoulda seen that anagram indicator.
  4. … before finally twigging 1a LEYTON ORIENT, but that was only after staring at -E-T-N/-R-E-T for an absolute age. (Do they even still exist? Like others above, I only know the name due to the football results being trotted out every Saturday afternoons as a child, with my dad becoming increasingly despondent as he checked off his Littlewoods Pools coupon!)
    A bowl-of-porridge-and-two-coffees crossword for me today. Despite finishing I seem to be slowing down, which is a worry.
    My favourite clue today was 24a NATIONAL DEBT.
    Have a good day all. I’m just off to batten down the hatches.

    Edited at 2021-03-10 07:51 am (UTC)

  5. Leyton Orient were called Orient from 1966 to 1987 and have an interesting history of name changes before that.
  6. Can see STUBBS and FREEMAN who wrote up a history of the Anglo-SAXON state. Not sure whether there are any other references in the grid though…
  7. I’ve seen Yeovil play at Orient a few times but I still couldn’t solve the clue until I finally changed ‘port’ to MOOR. I remember thinking ‘port’ was a bit more than a ‘space to tie up a boat’ but confidently put in in anyway. That frustrated TARTARE which in turn gave deprived me of the crucial final checker for the team — I’d been at the wrong end of the clue. I’ve found all the QCs hard this week. Only one on the first pass of acrosses and that was wrong (see above) which is my worst ever. Downs were more forgiving and the wavelength was gradually found. Other long hold ups were SPARTA and IN THE CLUB where I missed the anagram and again thought it was a weird definition — oops.
  8. I found this hard going with the elusive football team requiring an alphabet trawl at the end. Once the penny dropped I saw the anagram, which was frustrating. I also had trouble in the SE with SPARTA, POSTERN, RESUMED and MOLE being slow to succumb. Finished in 15.01.
    Thanks to william and Jalna for the workout.

  9. Trickiesh

    I’m keen on footie but LEYTON ORIENT was slow to reveal itself

    Some easy clues but there were a few that I needed a checker or two for

    Thanks all

  10. Didn’t see the anagram in 1 across and football is not my thing, so it was the last one in. Time was 24:19 so over my target again. Found it on the hard side this morning. Onwards and upwards ? Maybe.
  11. Good puzzle on the harder side I’d say. Just over 13 minutes with 1a and 3d LOI.
    Not sure about the Nina but there are lots of words formed from the end of one clue to the start of the next; scuff, flax, cantle, seas, east, tune, unend, tour, suns, hit etc. Also several male names; andy, angus (twice in 8d and 19a), onan as well as the mentioned surnames of stubbs and freeman. But I see no theme. Perhaps you can do this with lots of puzzles?
    Thanks blogger and setter
  12. Oh dear, the third day in a row not finished. Perhaps lockdown is beginning to have an effect…

    NHO Leyton Orient or Neonate and found the parsing too difficult for many others, so am thankful for the explanations from William.

    Luckily our moles remain just outside in the field as, unlike William, I really don’t want them on our new lawn.

    Diana

    Edited at 2021-03-10 09:21 am (UTC)

    1. You are very lucky, we have a field next to us and last year they were a real pest.
  13. Another DNF for me, and another puzzle that I just lost interest in.

    Surprisingly I did manage to answer 24a NATIONAL DEBT and 2d ECONOMISE, among others.

    Did not know the word POSTERN.

    5d. RIFLE – When i read this clue I was absolutely certain I had seen the same clue in a previous puzzle.

    My first puzzle by Jalna. Not a good introduction for me to this setter.

    1. Agreed. I only knew POSTERN through a Thomas Hardy poem, and even then it took some trawling up. :

      When the Present has latched its postern behind my tremulous stay,
      And the May month flaps its glad green leaves like wings,
      Delicate-filmed as new-spun silk, will the neighbours say,
      “He was a man who used to notice such things”

  14. What an odd QC. Couldn’t get a serious foothold in the top half (1a needed a flash of inspiration or years of listening to football results and I experienced neither). The grid didn’t help. Many clues were perfectly fair, on reflection (for example my last two — SPARTA and POSTERN) but they just didn’t click for ages, for me at least.
    A slow slog that took me 25 mins in the end and didn’t really make for a satisfying solve. Sorry, William, but after this I really can’t be bothered to look for a Nina. John M.
    P.s. The use of the expression ‘in the club’ is perhaps an indication of the age and sex of the setter.

    Edited at 2021-03-10 10:07 am (UTC)

  15. … and it took me 14 minutes to finish. Several clues seemed to contain multiple cryptic elements (eg 21A Incisor), perhaps more than many QCs, so quite pleased that all parsed as well. I think this is only the third puzzle by Jalna I have completed, and it appears to be my fastest — for which probably one ought to read least slow — finish.

    SE corner was sticky for quite a time, though like many, my actual LOI was 1A Leyton Orient, which should not have taken me the time as I follow London football and have been to see games at their home ground.

    Many thanks to William for the blog. No idea on the NINA alas though — never my strong point.
    Cedric

  16. A nice head-scratcher this, a proper puzzle. I’ll declare an approximate twenty minute effort, probably slightly less. FOI neonate. I had economies at 2d so could not get 18 a until disinterested husband suggested economise. A breakthrough. I had port at 8 ac but moor in mind, but could not see why it was left. I had to put moor in as tartare was clear. Leyton Orient went in but I did not see the anagram, it was biffed. NHO emo. Couldn’t see why incisor was yellow. All clues fair with hindsight, such a gift. Thanks, William, for much-needed clarification, and Jalna for a very good puzzle. GW.
  17. Cannot see it. Given that Felix loves Dickens (died 8 June ) and the crossword includes Schumann (born 8 June), I began to wonder but saw nothing else.
  18. Like others, my LOI was the to-me obscure football team. Had to do an alphabet trawl. Did not recognise Fluid as an anagrist.

    The rest went in steadily. Also put Port instead of MOOR but had to change. Liked MOLE though not IRL. Amused we had both SPARTA and the Trojan War this week. What did some one say about the setters being retired classicists?

    Thanks for much needed blog, William. Afraid there was a lot of biffing today.

    Edited at 2021-03-10 10:46 am (UTC)

  19. Well this took me to nearly double my 15 minute target, and I was within range of a DNF. PORT was the main culprit, as I was convinced it was right, even though TARTARE was lurking at the back of my mind. I was also slow to see the ORIENT, GROTTO and POSTERN. Setter 4, Rotter 0 as the pools announcer might have said.

    I’m going to have a longer look for the Felix NINA now.

  20. I saw my LOI ELITE just as I was about to give up at 30 minutes, with the across clues proving difficult. I didn’t get an across until 14A Oliver, but the downs were a bit easier.
    I often struggle with infrequent setters, perhaps we could have a few more from Jalma as I enjoyed this one.
    Thanks to William for the blog.

    Brian

  22. Hard yards today. This took me 22:23 with LOI LEYTON ORIENT. I too have been to their ground but was slow to get this; slight doubt about O = ball but we’ve probably had it before.
    Prior to that a few hold-ups including POSTERN which I parsed as STERN = Back, plus something else for Sign. But I couldn’t see the something else so had to guess. Also had PORT at 8a for a long time.
    Can’t see the nina either. Lots of double letters and unchecked Us but no theme clear to me.
    David
  23. I’m not sure it qualifies, but it is a connection. There is a painting by George STUBBS entitled ‘FREEMAN, the Earl of Clarendon’s gamekeeper, with a dying doe and a hound’, painted in 1800. I can’t find any other references to George Stubbs’ work elsewhere in the grid though. Maybe someone else can see something more concrete.
  24. I’m sorry to read so many fellow solvers feeling discouraged today, though I sympathise : this wasn’t easy at all.

    What I found tricky:
    -anagram indicators I’m less familiar with : 1A ‘fluid’ and 13D ‘free’ — would have made things easier had I realised what these were.
    -3D thought myself sooo clever for having ‘tar’ in mind for ‘sailors’ but of course went for ‘TARS’ rather than ‘TAR’ x2, so totally stuck here.
    -15D GROTTO: find these clues the most difficult — was trying to take part of (mostly) the word NASTY rather than a synonym of NASTY ( GROTTY, in this case.)

  25. Bucking the trend I did spot Leyton Orient early — it seems to be either them or Crystal Palace nowadays — however, I came a cropper on 20ac and put in “Piscean”. I had an inkling it was wrong, but DNK “postern”. So a disappointing end to 30 minutes of a challenging puzzle.

    Main issue for was me was putting “Port” in 8ac, even though I knew 3dn had to be “Tartare”. Too much staring and contemplation rather than ditching the obvious and restarting.

    Lots to like though, even if I was being a little slow.

    FOI — 5dn “Rifle”
    LOI — 20ac (but wrong)
    COD — 13dn “In the club” — just twigged it as I was writing this…

    Thanks as usual.

      1. I was just so happy that I had spotted the “astrological” potential of “sign” that I refused to even consider it could be something else. Although I have to admit I was struggling for different types of gate.
  26. To put people out of their misery, in case anyone is wasting their time trying to spot the Nina in the above grid, it is our son’s primary school teachers: not one that would be obvious to anyone, so I probably should not have mentioned it!

    F.

    1. Thanks for that, Felix. I’d been working on a theory based on INCONSTANT and RELATIVITY and as a non-scientist I’m mighty relieved I no longer feel obliged to pursue this finding other connections or try to explain it! It was your Nina in QC 1576 that set me down that road, not that I understood it even when it had been pointed out.

      Edited at 2021-03-10 11:53 am (UTC)

  27. A slow start with the across clues, but the downs were more accommodating. Orient then stood out, but I still hesitated because I didn’t see ‘fluid’ as an anagram indicator for ages. However, my big problem was 20ac, where I was convinced the sign was Pisces, but could only come up with Piscean and decided to pull stumps at the 30min mark. Obviously wrong, but I just couldn’t think of anything else. CoD to 21ac, Incisor. Invariant
  28. First one I’ve given up on in a while. Finished the coffee before the puzzle and wasn’t enjoying it enough to bother completing.

    Edited at 2021-03-10 11:47 am (UTC)

  29. Online says Jaina. Less obscure british soccer teams, please! Very enjoyable nevertheless. Thx all. 😀
  30. DNF despite seeing Orient having got the down checkers

    I can’t remember a Jaina puzzle before but I really struggled

    DNK Postern and other clues had some serious head scratching

    COD to National Debt which apparently is now at its highest level

    1. Not the place for a long discussion of economics but it’s interesting how present-day focused we all are, and how ready to be downcast by our current position. When it comes to the UK’s national debt as a percentage of GDP, in the 270 years since 1750 it was higher than today’s admittedly quite elevated figure for no less than 150 of them — ie well over half! Including every year in the first half of the 19th century, a period when Britain was in its pomp and the most powerful nation in the world.

      Cheer up — we have been this much in debt (and more, much more) before and survived …

      Cedric

      1. If you can stay calm when all around you are panicking…

        … you’ve probably misjudged the situation. 🙂

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