Times Cryptic No 29045 — A solid performance

Author   plusjeremyPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic

24:30 for a puzzle which I found quite enjoyable, and neither too easy nor too hard. I imagine I’m on the slower side today, because I seemingly cannot finish a puzzle in under 20 minutes anymore, but nevertheless I felt at home with the clues, which is a welcome change for me.

Some of the wordplay was quite tricky, although this was something I could only fully appreciate upon writing the blog.

Across
1 While singer goes around hotel, it’s disgusting (8)
ALTHOUGH – ALTO around H + UGH
5 Group with intelligence probing what follows fa or do (6)
SOCIAL – CIA in SOL (what follows fa)
8 Striking German cycle on grassy area (10)
LEATHERING – THE RING next to LEA

I kept trying LEAGERRING!
9 Some scoff “I won’t pipe down” (4)
NOSH – NO (I won’t) + SH (pipe down)
10 Feel how criminal gets riches and fateful revolver (5,2,7)
WHEEL OF FORTUNE – anagram of FEEL HOW + FORTUNE (riches)

A biff for me.
11 Beginning to strip, rip off long clothes? (7)
DISROBE – first letter of STRIP + ROB (rip off) inside DIE (long)

Nice &-lit!
13 Column but not newspaper’s cover (7)
PLASTER – PILASTER (column) – I (newspaper)

Got this from the definition, and only parsed while doing the blog. The word PILASTER popped into my head, and I remembered that “I” is a newspaper over there.
15 Gag, as cracked by the French (7)
SILENCE – SINCE around LE (the[, in] French)
18 Charge £0.01 per person to cross motorway (7)
IMPEACH – I P EACH (£0.01 per person) around M (motorway)
21 Puzzle which involves energy, caution and discipline (5,3,4,2)
THROW THE BOOK AT – THROW (puzzle) THAT (which) around E (energy) BOOK (caution)

I didn’t know BOOK = ‘caution’, which is a sports verb meaning to write a player’s name down to warn them for bad behavior. But I was able to get this from the enumeration once I had some letters in.
22 African place to spend a penny whilst seeing wild animals, we hear (4)
ZULU – homophone of ZOO LOO
23 Item for cleaning excessively black bird cages (10)
TOOTHBRUSH – TOO + THRUSH around B
24 How terrible daughter blocks catch with ball, at first (2,4)
OH DEAR – D in HEAR (catch) after O (ball)
25 Strength drug swallowed by Mr Muscle (8)
MASSETER – ASSET (strength) E (drug) in MR

Chewing muscle.
Down
1 Granted, nothing has yet been settled? (7)
ALLOWED – ALL OWED (nothing has yet been settled)
2 Crossing path with one going around states (9)
TRAVERSAL – TRAIL (path) – I (with one going) around AVERS (states)

I got this from the definition and some crossing letters. Couldn’t fully parse it at the time.
3 Part of a general misery in old town? Not half (7)
OTHELLO – HELL (misery) in O (old) TO{wn}

Even after getting this, I was still mystified! Of course, ‘part’ here is referring to ‘role’. Lovely and misleading!
4 Blunder installing extremely inferior browser (7)
GIRAFFE – GAFFE around first and last letters of INFERIOR

From _ _ _ _ F _ _ and ‘extremely inferior’, I thought for sure the answer would be FIREFOX. Did anyone else stumble down that pathway?
5 Sauces from Italy served up and desirable sweet food (9)
SUGARPLUM – RAGUS (sauces from italy) reversed + PLUM (desirable)

I got the SUGAR part quickly, but PLUM took much longer. I don’t think PLUM = ‘desirable’ is as common in the US as in the UK.
6 Stun people who are inside entertaining clubs with cruciverbalists (7)
CONCUSS – CONS (people who are inside) around C (clubs) US (cruciverbalists)

Inside prison, that is. This was a lovely one.
7 Set hammered gold on dresses without any frills (7)
AUSTERE – SET anagrammed (hammered [as in drunk]) inside AU (gold) RE (on)

Tricky wordplay I’m only fully seeing now, but the definition and some crossing letters made the answer clear.
12 The sticks supporter placed around Buddhist temple (9)
BACKWATER – BACKER around WAT (Buddhist temple)
14 Item worn when eg, running dog gets fit (9)
TRACKSUIT – TRACK (dog) + SUIT (fit)
16 Providing gospel, I will need two parts of the Bible (2,5)
IN TRUTH – I + NT RUTH (two parts of the Bible)
17 Starter of Chinese leaves in pastry whilst travelling (2,5)
EN ROUTE – first letter of CHINESE removed from EN CROÛTE (in pastry)
18 Reluctance to move home? It’s overturned, in time (7)
INERTIA – IN (home) + IT reversed in ERA (time)
19 Dashed hope upset proof-reader for The Sun? (7)
PHOEBUS – anagram (dashed) of HOPE + reversal (upset) of SUB (proof-reader?)

I believe I have this right, that the question mark belongs to ‘proof-reader’.
20 One hoping for a lift from big song, say, by pop singer (7)
HITCHER – HIT (big song, say) + CHER (pop singer)

76 comments on “Times Cryptic No 29045 — A solid performance”

  1. I enjoyed this. Although I had no idea what was going on with 21A THROW THE BOOK AT, I saw throw for puzzle but the rest was a mystery until I saw the blog. Quite a few went in from wordplay alone such as the NHO MASSETER and PHOEBUS. I loved ZULU for Zoo Loo along with IN TRUTH, EN ROUTE and OH DEAR. COD to ZULU.
    Thanks Jeremy and setter.

  2. My LOI was the NHO MASSETER, which I wasn’t convinced was likely to be right. I definitely went down the FIREFOX trap at 4D which fitted the checkers I had at that point. LEATHERING was clever, once I got it, after trying all sorts of ways to cycle German (like ANGERMA or ever RADFAHRER). CHER at 20D was another example of the new rule that people don’t have to be dead to appear (she is apparently 78).

    1. Cher has received reconditioning so often, she may come into a category of her own on the ontological spectrum.

  3. I found this tough, and took ages to finish, partly–but only partly–because I was so sleepy. Biffed a few, and failed to parse a couple of them: THROW THE BOOK because I dnk BOOK, DISROBE because I took ‘beginning to strip, rip off’ to be SRO, leaving me DIBE. FOI WHEEL, LOI DNK MASSETER, which I looked up. I liked SOCIAL, ZULU, OTHELLO, inter alia.

  4. Up until the small hours last night seeing a beautiful Aurora Australis, which rarely gets to this latitude, so a bit sleepy for this crossword, and somewhat fearful of a Friday toughie. But pleased to be done in under 20 minutes! With even less sleep perhaps the championship beckons?
    CsOD : ZULU & CONCUSS

  5. 10:44, not too bad for a Friday, Collins has “a person who checks and edits copy” for SUBEDITOR so that matches the definition OK. I was just relieved that MASSETER was a thing!

  6. This was a quality puzzle which I failed to finish, defeated by the NHO MASSETER in about 35. Many thanks to Jeremy for explaining quite a number of these, including DISROBE, OTHELLO (v clever), CONCUSS and the long one at 21ac. I too thought about Firefox (though I liked the idea of a GIRAFFE as a browser) and I don’t know about the question mark on the PHOEBUS clue but I can say for sure that a proof-reader is most definitely not a sub. Though maybe they do things differently on The Sun.

    From Love Minus Zero/No Limit:
    My love she speaks like SILENCE, without ideals or violence
    She doesn’t have to say she’s faithful
    Yet she’s true, like ice, like fire
    People carry roses, make promises by the hours
    My love she laughs like the flowers
    Valentines can’t buy her

    1. I am a copy editor, which is not the same thing as a proofreader exactly, you know (sometimes I get to rewrite entire sentences! Ha), but I’m not aware of any fine distinctions in the usage of the British term.

      1. On every newspaper I worked on the sub-editors were part of the editorial staff, and worked in the newsroom, and the proof-readers were production staff who worked in the composing room. They read the proofs taken of type that had been set into formes prior to being cast into hot metal in preparation for the printing process. These jobs do not exist any longer, in the main. Proof-readers never handled unedited copy, in fact never saw it. Sometimes sub-editors read proofs but that was a sideline to their main job of editing copy, writing headlines, laying out pages and haranguing reporters…

        1. Thanks, that’s interesting! The Nation magazine has never had production proofreaders, as far as I know, the copy-editors’ tasks subsuming that function, but then I never worked in the era of hot metal either… I started out there in 1986 in the production department, as typographer, an obsolete job today.

        2. Irrespective of the technical roles involved, I think it’s fair to say that proofreading (in the general sense of reading a text to identify errors, which might for example include deviations from a style guide) is part of what a SUBEDITOR does.

          1. Nope. A proof is (or was, in long-gone hot-metal days, which is surely what we’re talking about here) a paper copy of the type set in the forme prior to moulding. They were wet and filthy. A subeditor read and edited the raw copy first, and accuracy and adherence to style was solely the province of the sub. The sub sent the copy to the compositors, it was set in metal, placed into the forme and laid out as the sub had instructed and a proof-reader then checked whether the copy as laid out in the forme was correct and conformed to the instructions of the sub. They were completely different jobs.

            1. I’m not talking about a job, I’m talking about an activity. Proofreading is an activity that anybody can perform, and any person involved in that activity is, at that moment, a proofreader, just as when I’m in my car I’m a driver, and I don’t need to be Lewis Hamilton to say so.

              1. The clue specifically equated the roles, or jobs, of subeditor and proof-reader. They are not the same. No more to say.

                1. It does no such thing. The word ‘proofreader’ has both a specialist meaning (the professional one you describe) and a more general one (a person involved in proofreading). There is absolutely nothing in the clue to indicate that the former is required. In fact I would argue that the more general meaning is required, because otherwise the clue doesn’t make sense for the very reasons you indicate!

  7. I found this quite hard. After more than 30 minutes I had no clues solved. I took a significant break before resuming and finally started solving. FOI was biffing THROW in 21A leading to BACKWATER, EN ROUTE and DISROBE. I spent several more hours completing it. I spent ages on the NE corner as I had CLIQUE instead of SOCIAL. NHO CONCUSS but finally biffed it so LOI NOSH. Really need the blog to work out the wordplay on many.
    Thanks Jeremy

  8. 62 minutes. Very slow to start, and slow on the last three in (NOSH, CONCUSS and PLASTER) but there was a steady period in between. Like others, my only unknown word was MASSETER so I took some pleasure in constructing it eventually from wordplay and checkers and then finding out it was correct. Several answers went in from definition and checkers and I left the wordplay until later.

  9. LOI was the NHO MASSETER, which it turns out is the only word that fits the crossers…
    I grimaced a bit at the wannabe &lit. There are words that aren’t essential to the definition, but calling it an &lit is the only way to excuse the entanglement of wordplay and definition that has more than one word doing double duty. “Strip,” while part of the wordplay, is the only word necessary to define DISROBE, the preceding “Beginning” being purely for the sake of wordplay, and the apparent reiteration of the definition (“rip off long clothes”) is in reality just part of the wordplay (as “long” has nothing to do with the definition).

    “Sub” is short for “subeditor,” a British term (Collins: “a person who checks and edits copy, esp on a newspaper”) for proofreaders and such; the question mark is because any such periodical could have been used as an example. (Edit: I see that George got here first! I am a copy editor, which is not the same thing as a proofreader exactly, but I’m not aware of any fine distinctions in the usage of the British term.)

    1. While DISROBE does mean ‘undress’, a robe is a long garment, hence adding to the beauty of the clue.

      1. In the eye of the beholder…
        As that sense of “robe” is not essential to the meaning of DISROBE, this bit of wordplay is not part of the definition.

        1. Because the whole of the clue is wordplay, we have to read this as an &Lit, so the whole thing must also be the definition. I agree with you that the result is rather clumsy, with a lot of extraneous parts to the definition.

  10. 10:32

    I left the unknown MASSETER to the end in case I thought of a better word/parse. I assume there is some link to ‘masticate’, not that I had a clue while solving.

    It’s been a good solving week, so I look forward to the return of fat fingers and brain fades just in time for the championship.

    Thanks both.

  11. I finished in 23:50 with like many people it seems LOI the NHO MASSETER and I was very relieved when it came up all correct. So it’s the jaw muscle, well well.
    A very pleasant and gentle puzzle for a Friday I thought.
    Thanks setter and blogger

  13. 56 minutes. Started slowly and then got even slower, but then finished in a rush. I encountered MASSETER recently when trying to find another muscle. LOI was PHOEBUS once I had the crossers to biff THROW THE BOOK AT. I just assumed he/ she was something to do with the sun. COD EN ROUTE. Northern boys love pies, not gravy. A tough puzzle. Thank you Jeremy and setter

  14. Relatively straightforward for a Friday I thought – 20 minutes or so.

    – Agree with Guy’s reservations over DISROBE
    – Like many others it seems, relied on the wordplay for the unknown MASSETER
    – Didn’t see how the definition worked for OTHELLO – ‘part of a general’ is very clever
    – Biffed EN ROUTE, and I should really remember en croute for future reference
    – PHOEBUS went in from wordplay and because it looked like the name of a/the sun
    – Liked the fact that ‘some’ in the clue for NOSH wasn’t indicating a hidden

    Thanks Jeremy and setter.

    FOI Although
    LOI Masseter
    COD Nosh

  15. 22.46 almost undone by masseter NHO until I realised asset was strength. Started off slowly but took an upturn when I started the down clues. Didn’t truly parse traversal so will check that above. Liked zulu.

  16. Gave up at the 40 min mark with the NHO MASSETER missing. Generally enjoyed this, though. ZULU a particular pleasure. No idea what was going on with OH DEAR, so thanks for that.

  17. 11:05, taken over the 10-minute mark by doubts about the unlikely-looking MASSETER and DISROBE. Like Kevin I had SRO for ‘beginning of strip rip off’ which left me with DIBE for ‘long’. In the end I just submitted with fingers crossed and figured it out afterwards.
    COD to ZULU of course.

  18. Clearly “off the wavelength” for this one at 24.28, though still within the average time. With only WHEEL… entered, I gave up on the top half and pottered around the bottom, gaining fluency once THROW went in, parsed through gritted teeth, presumably with my MASSETER working overtime.
    For me, another hefty challenge with a plethora of very fine clues resisting all the way. ZULU, of course, was in every way the light relief.

  19. I struggled with 5ac for a while as years of suffering ‘The Sound of Music’ taught me that SO (without the L) is the note to follow FA. I was further distracted by the memory of the system popular in the early to mid 20th century to make vocal scores usable by those who could not read traditional music notation called SOL-FA, but there SOL precedes FA, rather than following it. Overthinking, as usual…

  20. DNF
    Completely of the pace today. Had a headache at the start and this was much worse after 40 minutes when I gave up,with barely half done. Still I’ve learnt something about the GIRAFFE and the MASSETER. I’m with Guy regarding DISROBE. COD: THROW THE BOOK AT.

    Thanks to Jeremy and the setter

  21. I have not commented before, but I have followed this blog for sometime with great interest and enjoyment. I feared a Friday stinker and at first glance I thought I would be beaten. Then one clue tumbled in followed by all the others. I liked oh dear and leathering. Thanks to all.

  23. Leisurely stroll. Generally a nice puzzle, although I read with interest Guy’s comments about disrobe; it did indeed seem a bit unwieldy.
    Thanks, pj.

  24. 21:07

    This didn’t seem too bad for a Friday and I made good general progress until slowed by the unknown MASSETER, which I originally attacked from the wrong end of the clue. PHOEBUS was the only other unknown in a very enjoyable puzzle.

    Thanks to both.

  25. Liked 1a Although, 8a LeaTheRing. Clever.
    Could not parse 11a Disrobe, 21a Throw the B…. Thanks +j.
    Had to cheat for the crossing 19d Phoebus 25a NHO Masseter, because I was unaware of Phoebus’ connection to Helios and Apollo.
    COD 3d Othello.
    4d Giraffe, I too was VERY tempted by Firefox when I had the 2nd F only.
    12d Backwater; I just sensed that the temple was something like Angkor Wat. Bullseye!

  26. I got all mixed up with TRAVERSAL and confused it with transversal, which from my memory is a line that crosses others and so I was thinking the definition was ‘crossing path’. MASSETER defeated me; I never saw asset = strength and was rescued by aids there. As I was a little more, not that it led to a very fast solve, 69 minutes. Never understood, and still don’t, what the general was doing in the OTHELLO clue, but the wordplay was so clear that it had to be that.

  27. 26:50 – with an intervening break which should, I suppose, carry a time penalty. MASSETER was a lucky guess and I share the previously expressed misgivings about defining a sub as a proof-reader. The latter look only for typos, a sub-editor does so much more and in the era of spellcheckers, probably very little of it actual proofing. Traditionally, a sub-editor would not even see a proof and since the edited version now goes direct to plate, there is no longer any need for them.

    1. Yes David,agreed. I refer you to the discussion closer to the start of this blog where I attempt to make these same points.

      1. Thanks. I saw a couple of people had expressed misgivings but I skipped over the details. The proof-reader’s role was supposedly to remove errors introduced during typesetting and to restore the text to what the sub-editor produced. In that sense, their roles could hardly have been more distinct.

        1. This is just a question of a word with both specialist and more general meanings, which is very common. In this case the general meaning has become much more common since, as you point out, the actual job no longer exists!

          1. It’s moot whether proofreading uniquely retains its former meaning today. Chambers seems to think so, but I’d accept it isn’t necessarily the last word on everyday usage. I am sure there is some dictionary somewhere that defines proofreading as correcting someone’s spelling, punctuation etc, without any reference to typesetting and printed proofs, though even if one accepts the meaning has evolved, the bulk of the role today is more performed by the writer and the word-processing software and I think we would both have cavilled at a writer being defined as a proofreader.

            1. I hear the term quite regularly. When we’re prepaying documents at work people talk about proofreading as a final quality check. My wife sometimes asks me to proofread things she’s written. So I’ve no doubt that the term has slipped the moorings of its original professional context.
              Perhaps proofreading is too small a part of what a sub does to serve as a definition, but this sort of thing is quite common. ‘Browser’ is hardly a comprehensive definition of a GIRAFFE!

              1. A giraffe belongs to the category of animals known as browsers, but a sub-editor doesn’t belong to the category of workers known as proofreaders! I think we must just agree to differ. I can see we aren’t going to convince each other.

                1. FWIW proofreading is a completely normal and very common word in the professional circles I’ve worked in and it simply means – as per Keriothe – checking a document. Sometimes the final version as a “read-through”; sometimes against a specific previous version which might have had manuscript amendments which have been incorporated. You’d usually shorten it to “proof”. The comments about what the word originally meant were (to me) very interesting but (if there were any doubt) it’s certainly used in a context now (effectively exclusively) different from its original use. Apologies if I’m just stating the obvious!

                  1. Yes, there is no question that proofreading exists as a function. I try do it myself before hitting “post comment”, normally followed two seconds later by my spotting a glaring spelling mistake! The question is whether it is an accurate or sufficient definition of a sub-editor. I think not, but others maintain it is.

                    1. I think that’s a fair objection. I’m happy with it but it’s certainly a little bit loose.

  28. One of only two who knew MASSETER? But only because it was encountered in a pub quiz recently – as the most powerful pound-for-pound muscle in the human body. Lucky, I don’t think I would have guessed ASSET from strength. Otherwise on the wavelength, no real trouble and all parsed (some laboriously e.g. THROW…) And the one NHO Phoebus I wrote straight in from with just the P and B.
    Liked CONCUSS and TOOTHBRUSH. Like &lits, but agree DISROBE is a tad clumsy.

Comments are closed.