Times 26,423: Either These Pangrams Go, Or I Do

Author   VerlainePosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Be careful what you wish for, I suppose: at Tuesday’s Sloggers & Betters, as always happens when I’m a couple of sheets to the wind, I wheeled out my opinion that if you haven’t learned something new by the end of a cryptic crossword you have in some senses wasted your time. And there was a lot that was less than familiar in this crossword, whose wavelength I struggled to get on following a charity boardgames night earlier in the evening (read: lots more sheets to the wind). 17ac, 3dn, 7dn, 16dn, 22dn… what they had to be all became very clear at various points from the wordplay and the crossers, but it’s fair to say I wasn’t Bunging In From Definition at a rapid rate for most of this puzzle.

23ac irked me somewhat, as shouldn’t it have been “gathered” not “gather”? But I can’t get too grumpy with this puzzle when it has forestalled any umbrage from a slightly hungover verlaine with the eerily prescient surface of 17ac. And the surface of 1ac was worth the price of admission on its own, unless I’m just saying that because I’m a dog person: I’ll call that my clue of the day, winning out over some fun stuff such as 2dn whose surface nevertheless does not achieve the same brutal elegance. Many thanks to our setter, who I hope got paid by the letters of the alphabet on this occasion!

Across

1 Neuter cat roughly on table-top (10)
COUNTERACT – (CAT*) [“roughly”] on COUNTER [table-top]
6 Unlikely constituent of Christmas pudding? (4)
SPUD {Christma}S PUD{ding}
9 Humble, ultimately unimaginative sort of setter dropped (7)
LOWERED – LOW [humble] + {unimaginativ}E [“ultimately…”] + RED [sort of setter]
10 Piece often accompanied by trio, namely a woman, an unknown, and orchestra’s leader (7)
SCHERZO – SC HER Z O [namely | a woman | an unknown | O{rchestra}’s leader]
12 Extravagant jollity not initially expected (5)
UNDUE – {f}UN [jollity “not initially”] + DUE [expected]
113 Panto character once taking care of home beset by endless junk (9)
COLUMBINE – C/O [care of] + IN [home] beset by LUMBER{r} [“endless” junk]
14 Say “Kiss me, Hardy”? Don’t tempt fate! (6,4,5)
FAMOUS LAST WORDS – double def
17 Harsh critic may, getting drunk after litre — of this? (8,7)
LACHRYMA CHRISTI – (HARSH CRITIC MAY*) [“getting drunk”] after L [litre]
20 Commission ruined by violent emotion (9)
BROKERAGE – BROKE [ruined] by RAGE [violent emotion]
21 Sweeper’s way of working: circle round (5)
BROOM – reverse [“…round”] of M.O. ORB [way of working | circle]
3 Gather a fool plunged into sea (7)
AMASSED – A + ASS [fool] plunged into MED [sea]
24 We hear first course is cooking: taste? (7)
SOUPCON – homophone of SOUP’S ON [“we hear” first course is cooking]
25 Regularly liable, finally tax high liver (4)
IBEX – {l}I{a}B{l}E [“regularly”] + {ta}X [“finally…”]
26 In republic, head office deny prices are rigged (10)
PRESIDENCY – (DENY PRICES*) [“are rigged”]
Down

1 Vividly characterised four struggling at university in Hebridean island (9)
COLOURFUL – (FOUR*) [“struggling”] + U [university] in COLL [Hebridean island]
2 Single possible description of six days of the week? (5)
UNWED Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri, Sat and Sun being un-Wed…
3 Footballers not the full dollar? (5-8)
THREE-QUARTERS – a dollar is FOUR QUARTERS, so this is only 75% of one.
4 A sharp twisting in both hands, starting from the base (7)
RADICAL – A + reverse of ACID [sharp “twisting”] in R L [both hands]
5 Groups in society holding large, defendable properties (7)
CASTLES – CASTES [groups in society] holding L [large]
7 Bias in advice on Romeo initially, Juliet’s intended to accept (5,4)
PARTI PRIS – TIP [advice] on R{omeo} [“initially”], PARIS [Juliet’s intended] to accept
8 One able to fly across river avoided public transport? (5)
DROVE – DOVE [one able to fly] across R [river]
11 In sick bay sure to be returning to own place (8,5)
HOMEWARD BOUND – HOME WARD BOUND [in | sick bay | sure]
15 Very tiny acknowledgment for help in the kitchen (9)
MICROWAVE – MICRO WAVE [very tiny | acknowledgement]
16 My phone is reassessed for tax (4,5)
SHIP MONEY – (MY PHONE IS*) [“reassessed”]
18 Repairman goes round a circuitous route (7)
MEANDER – MENDER [repairman] goes round A
19 What are found on cricket pitch that are put into trousers? (7)
CREASES – CREASES are found on cricket pitches and put into trousers.
20 On pilgrimage, at first buy one spicy snack (5)
BHAJI – on HAJ [pilgrimage], “at first” B{uy} + I [one]
22 Nothing to read in extinct tongue (5)
OSCAN – O + SCAN [nothing | to read]

55 comments on “Times 26,423: Either These Pangrams Go, Or I Do”


  1. eugh…about 45mins, but with ‘lacrima crysti’, and also ‘drone’ at 8dn, which I shoved in early doors and forgot to go and check. Don’t you just hate it when that happens…? LOI PARTI PRIS. Those foreign answers are ALWAYS my LOsI. Talking of pesky foreign words, surely no one pronounces SOUPCON as ‘soup’s on’, do they?

        1. Apologies I misunderstood your concern. It’s the silent “P”s that worry me too ….. but that is an age thing.
        2. The P in ‘soupçon’ isn’t silent. In French you don’t pronounce the N at then end but in an anglicised pronunciation I guess you would.
            1. Understandable, as the p is usually silent in words that end -oup: coup, loup, beaucoup… er, can’t think of any more!
  2. two stupid errors: lachrIma–didn’t bother to check, I was so happy to spot the answer in the checkers–and ‘lowbred’. Biffed PARTI PRIS from checkers and def, COLUMBINE likewise, although I had no idea if Columbine is a panto character. And Janie, I’d say that ‘soup’s on’ is close enough for a cryptic, given some of the quasi-homophones one comes across here.
  3. I felt that fnishing this was an achievement – learned so much. Worked out PARTI-PRIS from the wordplay and French, didn’t know Juliet’s intended. Ditto LACHRYMA CHRISTI, recently sang Mozart’s Requiem, never heard of the wine. 2d very nice, kept trying to chop Sunday. OSCAN LOI, crossed fingers. COLUMBINE, like HARLEQUIN, is an old pantomime character. Went to a rugby playing school, so am used to describing that game as ‘football’. Super puzzle, didn’t spot the pangram, but there have been quite a few recently, so becoming normal. Many thanks for a great puzzle, to both setter and blogger. 28′.
  4. About 30 minutes of enjoyable solving (apart from AMASSED). I particularly liked 1a, 14a, 24a, 25a and 26a for their surfaces. Thanks setter and V.
  5. Hard going, close to 2 hours, though eventually managed to get all in except for PARTI PRIS. Some new words / terms to look up and learn about later including LACHRYMA CHRISTI. I too thought the tense of ‘Gather’ for AMASSED was confusing, but lots of good clues to compensate, my favourites being SOUPÇON (cedilla added automatically by Mr. iPad) and UNWED.

    Thank you to setter and blogger.

  6. Grief. DNK SCHERZO (or “sc” for “namely”, and still don’t?); COLUMBINE (or “lumber” for “junk”); LACHRYMA CHRISTI, though I’d got the anagram and figured it wasn’t English, at least; PARTI PRIS (and didn’t know Juliet’s intended); SHIP MONEY or OSCAN. At least I got the easier unknown, THREE QUARTERS, and am starting to remember some common words that are, for me, crossword-only, like “haj”.

    I thought of both BROOM and AMASSED but couldn’t work out the wordplay for either, having never seen ORB used for “circle”; surely it’s always a sphere? Glad it wasn’t just me that couldn’t make the tense work.

    So, about half finished in my hour, and without much feeling of hope for improvement, sadly.

    Edited at 2016-05-27 09:26 am (UTC)

    1. SC is short for ‘scilicet’, which means namely. Like most of the things I know about Latin I learned this from doing crosswords!

      Edited at 2016-05-27 09:40 am (UTC)

      1. Thank you, that helped me track it down in my dictionary. Pleasantly fitting that it’s “used esp in explaining an obscure text…”, if a little recursive in this case.
          1. Using E.S.P. in cryptic crosswords? That’s not cricket in my book. Though could explain some of Magoo’s solving times.
      2. Every time I see “sc.” I think it might stand for “scandit” (it climbs) and have to forcefully remind myself it’s “scilicet”. I don’t know why or how my brain got lured down that cul-de-sac.
      3. Thanks, keriothe. I didn’t know it either, and couldn’t even find it on the web. With this and the not-so-silent p you’re better than google today.
  7. 27:39 … which felt pretty darned speedy, considering.

    Long wrestle with PARTI PRIS and the old Roman wine, both unknowns but sort of gettable with some half-educated guesswork and a following wind.

    I sincerely hope Janie never hears me murdering the French language. Whaddyamean there’s no P in soupcon? Of COURSE there is!

    1. There certainly if the chef’s had a bad day and wants to take it out on the rosbifs!
  8. Spent ages trying for CASTRATION before I saw COUNTERACT. Also saw AMASSED straightaway but thought it must be wrong.Could hear Judith Durham telling me COLUMBINE. 50 minutes.
  9. 40 minutes but technically a DNF as I used aids for my last one in, PARTI PRIS which I also failed to get last time it appeared (ST in 2009). If I ever I knew about Paris in R&J I had forgotten him. It’s not a play I ever studied or saw on stage but I sat through the Zefirelli film in 1968, too long ago to remember.
  10. Finely-crafted challenge, even if I failed it by being another who didn’t properly unpack the anagram at 17ac and went with LACHRIMA.
  11. Demonstrating the benefits of sobriety, perhaps, I came in a minute and two seconds behind our many sheeted one. A little dithering over the grammar for AMASSED probably cost that, hence my echo of Breaker Morant for the benefit of our setters (I love ’em really!).
    I had five goes at spelling lach whatsit even before I realised there wasn’t an E.
    Cheers V.
  12. 17m. A really enjoyable challenge I thought, with much head-scratching and very little biffing. I was OK with all the foreign words: SHIP MONEY was the most unfamiliar thing for me.
    23ac looks like a mistake, which is a bit of a shame but it became clear with the checkers.
    Thanks setter and blogger.
  13. I seem to be increasingly complaining about using anagrams for obscure foreign words, and there was another one today that I got wrong: LACHRAMY CHRISTI seemed sensible enough to me. From the definition, I’m guessing that being teetotal hasn’t helped me here. Sounds like a translation of Jesus wept?
    12m 18s with that error.
    1. “The teardrop of Christ” – I guess that’s no less unpalatable a thing to want to drink than Liebfraumilch…
  14. I made a slowish start, scanning the upper half of the grid for clues I could solve quickly and not finding one until 8d. However, I got the long anagram at 17 with only the M in place, and that really helped to speed things up. The error at 23 (I assume it is an error) was annoying, because it lead me to reject AMASSED until I had all the checkers.
    35 minutes in the end, so much like the last two puzzles. Nice set of clues. I’m afraid I didn’t notice the pangram. I rarely do.
  15. Nice challenge today, despite 23 and a plethora of unknowns, mostly fair and gettable. About 50 minutes for me, so at the harder end.

    Does anyone else not quite understand why SC = namely, or am I being typically thick? Belay that! Just spotted the abbreviation for the Latin Scilicet, i.e. namely, which I don’t remember coming across before.

  16. 34 mins, so I think that’s three straight puzzles over the half-hour mark, although this one felt trickier than the other two. Like others I finished with PARTI PRIS after I finally saw the wordplay and had my fingers crossed that “Paris” was a character from R&J. I made a right pig’s breakfast of 17ac to start with because I had the final checker from SHIP MONEY quite early and I didn’t look at the anagram fodder properly, so I confidently wrote in “martini” as the second word. It was only when I saw that 19dn had to be CREASES and that 18dn was MEANDER that I was able to untangle the anagram fodder correctly. Knowing “lachrymal” and its meaning helped me avoid bunging in “lachramy”, and it seemed likely that there could be be a drink which would translate as “Christ’s tears”, although a post-solve look in my Chambers says it is “Christ’s tear” which doesn’t seem as logical from a quantity perspective.
    1. I got LACHRYMA CHRISTI in exactly the same way, right down to the post-solve look in Chambers!
  17. Only 18 min, but had bunged DRONE in at 8dn – probably with some vague thought of an imagined future with automatic transportation.
  18. Only 30-odd minutes, if I remember correctly, so fell nicely into place. Paled into insignificance though beside beating the Mighty V on the Concise today.
  19. 42 minutes, with the last five minutes spent dithering over AMASSED. Otherwise a fun puzzle. My GOD (‘Groan Of the Day’) goes to UNWED.
    1. … and damn it, why does Livejournal make it so easy to post anonymously?
      1. There is always a halfway between totally anonymous and having a picture – just sign your contributions with a name.
  20. I was so hoping that 19 down was going to be LEGGIES that I wrote it in confidently over the already-in-with-a-question-mark SOUPCON and was trying to make BOOMERANG work at 20 across. I now want to steal a march on the setter by clueing LEGGIES as “Who can be found at cricket match that are put into trousies?”.

    Anyhoo, eventually unraveled the anagram for LACHRYMA CHRISTI (Agatha’s half-sister?) and had to wave bye bye to LEGGIES in favor of CREASES.

    Didn’t spot it was a pangram, and got COLUMBINE from wordplay alone. Good puzzle.

  21. Needed to go to the aids to finish this: PARTI PRIS and BHAJI. Never heard of the former and I thought the pilgrimage needed a ‘D’ in it. I struggled through LACHRYMA CHRISTI and OSCAN on my own, though both were unknowns also. Well, Verlaine, I certainly learned a few things from this, so I suppose it was no waste of time for me. Those are the highlights – or lowlights – of my solve, but not the only hold-ups, which included the high liver, ‘starting from base’, the footballers, why ’round’ appears at the end of the BROOM clue, and UNWED, which doesn’t ring true for me. Better luck tomorrow, I hope. Regards.
  22. DNF for me to, thanks to PARTI PRIS. It and COLUMBINE were my LTI. I got COLUMBINE but couldn’t parse it, so I didn’t put much thought into 7d before giving up and throwing myself on the mercy of Wikipedia to tell me that Juliet’s intended was Paris. Even then I managed to fluff it by thinking in the wrong language and producing “parti oris”, which makes no sense whatsoever at all.

    Regarding BHAJI, our local Indian makes a brinjal bhaji which is divine beyond imagining. Why Indians have such difficulty in spelling (ours has three different versions of “kebab”, two of “bhaji”, two of “poppadum” and two of “naan”, all on the same menu) is beyond me.

    Edited at 2016-05-27 08:06 pm (UTC)

    1. Because the words for Indian foods are from Indian languages, such as Hindi, Gujerati (or Gujarati or Gujarate), Punjabi, et al. which do not use the Latin Roman alphabet. These words have to be transliterated from scripts that are very different from the 26-letter writing code that we use in English and there is no simple one-to-one correspondence between the graphic shapes used in Indian languages and the roman letters a-z.
      1. Point well made, although the phrase “pick one” springs to mind… There doesn’t seem to be a problem with vodka or, for that matter, sushi.
        1. > There doesn’t seem to be a problem with
          > vodka or, for that matter, sushi.

          You’re right – yes. Two different reasons for that, I think. a) the Russian writing system uses the alphabet principle in the same way as Latin Roman (i.e. words are constructed simply by writing a sequence of characters) and the only real difference in writing systems therefore is that the Russian alphabet doesn’t have a 1-to-1 correspondence with our English alphabet, but it’s pretty similar. (However, I have seen the Russian word for “No” spelled as ‘Niet’ or ‘Nyet’ since they don’t have two separate ‘y’ and ‘i’ letters.
          b) the romanization of the original syllabic-based writing system of Japanese (itself derived from Chinese scripts) seems to have become firmly established in the 19C (so Wikipedia tells me) and the “romaji” writing system became widely used.So the Japanese themselves have been using romaji for a long time on a global basis.

          In the Indian writing systems (some of them derived from Arabic) it’s usual for, say, vowel sounds in the word to be omitted from the written form, which means you can’t just read Urdu words as a sequence of characters — you have to decide whether to chuck in a few extra bits. And the Indian sub-continent hasn’t enjoyed the same political and economic significance globally as Japan or Russia. In the UK, the wave of migration from the Indian sub-continent in the 50s thru to the present day has brought a load of new food vocabulary, but the written representation has been a matter of haphazard, localised, idiosyncratic whim — no standardization process. It’ll take probably another 30 years before these words become sufficiently anglicised that their spelling stabilises.

          But still, it’s funny that the same Indian restaurant should use varying spellings on the same menu!

      2. … Actually, the same issue arises in this very crossword with “lachryma” which, as some commentators pointed out, could just as well be “lachrima”.
  23. Tackled this after getting home from a day’s golf, which the new knee took in its stride(with the help of a buggy), and finished it in 45 minutes but with a careless LACHRIMA after decoding the anagram and knowing the translation. Grrh! Otherwise managed to decode the othe unknowns, guessing that Paris was in R&J once I had the crossers, and remembering COLUMBINE after a brief flirtation with CELANDINE. A very nice puzzle with the unknowns gettable for the wordplay. My DNKs were 16d, 7d, and 22d. I also spent more time than necessary on 23a due to the conflicting grammar. Thanks Setter, and V for the blog.
  24. Well, that’s a scientist for you – too literal minded! Now if it had been raita, no problem, especially if clued by the Beatles number.
  25. Too many unknowns to finish – and not helped by penciling in the very likely looking “xxxxagino” for the panto (in = home in once). Like Verlaine and others, enjoy being reminded of ship money, and being force to learn lachrymal christi, and etc. Now to the off-license to see if they have some in stock.

    Edited at 2016-05-28 02:02 pm (UTC)

  26. Everybody refers obliquely to this “pangram” (Verlaine with pride — others with foot-scuffing embarrassment, because they didn’t spot it)… but where and what *is* this pangram? Obviously I didn’t spot it either, but I’m intrigued to know what it was I missed!
    1. Every letter of the (British) alphabet appears in the grid – some setters clearly aim for this effect, if they can manage it! There’s always a little bit of a dissatisfied feeling that you get if a puzzle is one letter way from being a pangram, for sure.
      1. Aha! Thank you for the explanation.

        And, yes, you’re right about ‘amassed’ not equivalent to ‘gather’ — harrruummmph!

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