Times 26399 – “Take eloquence and wring its neck.”

Author   piquetPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Eloquence will be lacking today. Not the cheering hirsute face you’re used to on a Friday, with lurid tales of bacchanalia and lightning solves in the wee small hours; I’m here for Monsieur V as he’s offered to sub for me next week while I’m defending a trophy over three days on lightning fast greens.
Fridays can be tricky, but this one was no problem and I enjoyed it, not least because 1a was a chemical write-in for me to drone on about, and there are no antelopes. There’s a sort of upmarket or Ghengis Khan theme to it, perhaps, with 7a, 11a, 16a, 23a, 5d showing common ground, but that may be an accident.
Half an hour had it done and deciphered ready to wax prosaic below.

Across
1 PTOMAINE – Insert TO MAIN (centre) into PE; D compound. In fact not one compound but a collection of nasty amines like putrescine and cadaverine, formed by bacteria in rotting food or vegetation; ‘ptomaine poisoning’ is now an obsolete term as it seems the pathogen bacteria do you more damage than their smelly by-products. From Greek ptoma, corpse.
9 QUESTION – QUEST = mission, NO I reversed; D challenge.
10 LAIC – (P)LAIC(E) = fish topped and tailed; D ordinary people’s.
11 HORSEMANSHIP – (HAMPSHIRE SON)*; D art mounted. Elegant.
13 BINNED – INN (bar) inside BED (base): D dispensed with.
14 RINGTONE – Anagram of OWING RENT without the W; D alert.
15 VESTIGE – Letter = VEE, insert ST and GI reversed; D shred. At first I had an N as the second letter, having solved 1d with insufficient care, but once I had V as the first letter from 15d I quickly saw the light.
16 WARLORD – WORD = pledge, insert A R(iva)L; D chief.
20 BEGOTTEN – ROTTEN = corrupt, delete R, add BEG = petition; D produced.
22 USABLE – US = American, insert B into ALE = porter; D working.
23 ARISTOCRATIC – no doubt you wrote in the answer and thought ‘it’s wordplay but exactly how we don’t worry about’. ARI = odd letters of A f R a I d, then you insert T for time into SOCRATIC; D elite. It looked at first like old Aristo-tle had something to do with it, but he doesn’t.
25 OVAL – O for duck, i.e. 0 at cricket, then LAV reversed; D &lit, the cricket ground in London.
26 CHAPLAIN – Insert PLA(Y) into CHAIN = series; D clergyman.
27 GATHERED – I think this is a DD; one meaning plucked, and one meaning rose, as in gathered speed, although you really need a noun like speed or momentum to make the meaning equivalent. Comments please (I’ll trust LJ not to delete them today, as happened on Wednesday when LJ mysteriously duplicated my post and the wrong one with posts was then deleted).

Down
2 TRACTIVE – Of course, as mentioned at 15a, in threw in TRACTION at first, and had to amend it; TRACT = pamphlet, I’VE = the author’s; D drawing. Not a common word, although it’s fair enough, given the existence of ATTRACTIVE and ATTRACTION.
3 MACHINATIONS – MACHO = male, change the O to an I, (current for old) then NATIONS = communities; D schemes.
4 INFRA DIG – INDIG(O) = short blue, insert (RAF)*; D unbecoming. Abbr. of Latin infra dignitatem meaning ‘below one’s dignity’.
5 EQUERRY – E = palace ultimately, insert R (king) into QUERY (doubt); D royal aide.
6 DETAIN – ATE = worried, reverse it, insert into DIN = row; D shut up.
7 HIGH – A triple D I think; powerful, superior, and going off like smelly food.
8 KNAPWEED – KNAP sounds like NAP = pile, WEED sounds like WE’D = two of us had; D plant.
12 SETTLE A SCORE – SETTLE = people, as in colonise, A SCORE = twenty, D obtain revenge.
15 VIBRANCY – (BY VICAR N)*; D energy. Or if you prefer, insert N into (BY VICAR)*.
17 AQUATINT – A, T (cat’s tail) inside QUAINT (whimsical); D etching.
18 RELEGATE – ER (Queen) reversed, LEGATE for ambassador; D lower in status. As in Aston Villa but not Bournemouth.
19 SNORING – (SON)*, RING = band; D disruptive noise. It doesn’t disrupt me, and it’s the dog snoring, of course I never snore.
21 THORAX – THOR = God (Norse type), AX = a cross, D where his heart lies?
24 IMAM – AMI = French friend, turned up = IMA, M(ass); D prayer leader.

34 comments on “Times 26399 – “Take eloquence and wring its neck.””

  1. A lttle tough this, 46.50, unfortunately with a queried Rich for 7 which forgot to return to. I imagine ‘the waters rose/gathered’ may justify 27. Or dissent etc. Slightly “heavy” surfaces though 14 quite nice.
  2. This was a real struggle for me – well over the hour mark. It wasn’t helped I suppose by getting answers quite early on (eg 1a, 23a) but then studiously ignoring them because I just wasn’t sure enough. It shows I should trust my instinct more – though I would then have had TRACTILE for 2d and KNOTWEED for 8d.
    Thanks Pip for parsing the elusive 23a.
  3. Far better puzzle than yesterday – enjoyable middle of the road challenge

    Solved 1A the wrong way by thinking PT=exercises – must be PTOMAINE. Nearly wrote “nitrogen” in at 14A before remembering to double check the definition. Thought 27A, my LOI, a bit of a stretch

    Good luck on the lightening quick greens – I can’t get out on the course at the moment so I’m very envious

    1. Thanks Jimbo, our own course too is just ceasing to be a swamp, but this is at Lacanau Ocean and Médoc, proper jobs.
  4. 30;26. The first dozen or so we’re write-ins and I thought that I was looking at a PB but then slowed right down. Like Jimbo, I scribbled 1ac in from PT = exercise. LOI GATHERED which I still don’t quite see but otherwise, an enjoyable run-through so thank you setter and Pip.
  5. Hard work today, like blogger had TRACTION and spent a while not getting 15ac. Had KNAPWEED, assumed KNAP was a pile, as in knapsack, wrongly. A dnf as had RETAIN, not DETAIN, entered after 49′. Thought the theme was religion rather than Genghis Khan, at least seven clues related.
  6. Cripes! Not only did I find it quite easy for a Friday (past 1am and accordingly somewhat sleep-deprived last night) but I seem to have scored more highly than both Magoo *and* Jason on the scoreboard! Oh, wait, I clearly just haven’t woken up yet, have I…

    Edited at 2016-04-29 09:44 am (UTC)

    1. Funnily enough, I seem to get quicker past midnight, though with the added adrenalin of preparing to blog. However, quicker for me does not mean ahead of Jason Magoo, unless they get one wrong. I might just come to the Championship this year solely to see the merest hint of an upset. Congratulations.
  7. 36m. Well I found this very hard indeed, with a lot of clues that had to be worked out painstakingly from the wordplay. The SE corner in particular took me ages. No out-and-out unknowns, but I wouldn’t have been able to tell you what a PTOMAINE was, I’m not sure how I’d have definined AQUATINT (it wouldn’t have been ‘etching’), and I’m not entirely sure I’ve come across KNAPWEED before.
    My last in was GATHERED. I thought early on that it might be the answer, but I couldn’t see how it meant ‘rose’. I still can’t, and I don’t think the sense in ‘gathered speed’ works: ‘rose speed’ makes no sense.
    Other than that I found this a really rewarding puzzle: I like it when the setter forces you to use the wordplay.

    Edited at 2016-04-29 09:00 am (UTC)

  8. Biffed GATHERED and still don’t really get it. Didn’t know AQUATINT. But been traduced by blogger. I got ARISTOCRATIC from deduction and induction. An enjoyable half hour followed by an irritating one!
  9. Hard work but enjoyable, and I was taken over the hour by two errors, KNOTWEED (like deezzaa) at 8dn which led to some interesting thoughts about what the answer might be at 11ac, and TRACTION at 2dn. Both errors were understandable in my view as KNOTWEED exists and “knot” equates to “pile”, at least in my thesaurus it does, and in TRACTION, I = “author” and ON = “appended to”.

    I still don’t quite see “gathered” as “rose”. One might say a plume of smoke “gathered in the air” or “rose in the air” but they’re not necessarily exactly the same thing. Perhaps someone can come up with a better example?

    Edited at 2016-04-29 09:17 am (UTC)

  10. Another nice chewy one I thought, solid finish to a challenging week. No AUBADEs or SHAWMs to cause me grief today, but KNAPWEED and GATHERED were entered with some trepidation.

    COD to HORSEMANSHIP. Have a good weekend everyone, thanks setter and Pip.

  12. Interrupted twice by neighbour currently clearing her freezer and wondering whether I might like what she doesn’t, and still managed 36 minutes, thinking it rather tough. Very slow start, accelerating to about 30% light speed once I got HORSEMANSHIP (very clever). However, I see from some entries today it was really easy-peasy, so I’ll just relax in the knowledge that I thought yesterday’s was enjoyable.
    I think Joekobi has a half nelson on GATHERED – gathering tides rise, and there’s a believable substitution available. I threw “he gathered himself” at the clue suggesting rising from his seat, but though it felt okay at the time, I’m rather queasy about it now.
  13. On the subject of GATHERED, could it be the definition of “gather” as in “to swell and fill with pus”, viz. a boil gathering? I think “a boil rises” / “a boil gathers” does pass the substitution test. Much as I hesitate to suggest any of this in the face of the lovely and poetic surface…

    Edited at 2016-04-29 11:38 am (UTC)

  14. I managed all the hard stuff but came mightily unstuck on two easy ones in the NW corner. I soon realised 8dn wasn’t KNOTWEED
    and was indeed KNAPWEED but it didn’t deter me from not parsing 6dn DETAIN Which I thought might just be DEBARK or 14dn RINGTONE.

    I never thought of Shut up! as to imprison or to hold and RINGTONE to me was not an alert! But I suppose it is. Most of my phone calls are not an alert as they are not answered around lunchtime as they are almost certainly a Shanghai real estate agent asking if we want to sell our apartment!

    A fine blog Pip and certainly no disrespect or criticism but I have got used to two things on Fridays – Verlaine and failure!

    Magoo stumbles!

    COD 11ac HORSEMANSHIP

    horryd Shanghai

  15. 27 minutes with a good 8 or 9 of those staring at a largely blank SE corner thinking “I’ll never get any of these”. Funnily enough it was only by putting an unlikely GATHERED in very lightly that I almost immediately got aquatint, usable and finally relegate.

    I knew it was likely to be a struggle when I passed on 10 across clues before getting a start with ARISTOCRATIC.

    Have we had PTOMAINE before? I certainly don’t know it from real life but it rang more than a faint bell.

      1. We did indeed, less than a week ago, but I’m afraid I can’t tell you where or I’ll have my licence revoked. (Is that enough of a clue?)
        1. A nod’s as good as a wink to a blind horse – found it! I was over a minute slower than Magoo on that particular occasion… let’s hope my upward trend continues at such a steady rate all the way until October and then I might have a fighting chance.
  16. 32 minutes for a puzzle of middling difficulty with nothing to hold me up for long, with some biffed answers such as 3, in which ‘male’ and ‘schemes’ was enough for my first entry. Several tentative entries needed reconsidering at the end – 6, RETAIN and 25, OMAN changed to DETAIN and OVAL at the last minute.

    I thought this was a really high quality puzzle, by far the best of the week. No parochial or esoteric entries apart from PTOMAINE, perhaps, and deceptive wordplay and definitions in elegant clues that were a joy to solve. There’s not a weak clue anywhere. Like others, I did question 27, but Chambers gives ‘increase’ as an intransitive verb meaning of ‘gather’, so it’s perfectly justified.

    More from this setter please.

  17. No real time today as solving while watching the Tour de Yorkshire on the box but found it quite tricky. 12dn quite easy as today’s stage ends in Settle. Ended up in the NE with LOI “high”.
  18. 27 mins. I’ve got today off and I’m glad I wasn’t solving it after a day’s work because I found it chewy, although much more fun that yesterday’s puzzle. I should have been able to shave a few minutes off my time but it too me much too long to see ARISTOCRATIC and CHAPLAIN, and it also took me a while to trust the wordplay for KNAPWEED. AQUATINT was my LOI after WARLORD and GATHERED. I saw the latter as what happens to a dress of a certain length when the wearer sits down – I have a vague recollection of my mother using it many years ago – think “the dress gathered/rose around her knees”.

    Edited at 2016-04-29 08:04 pm (UTC)

  19. I struggled for 75 minutes with this one. FOI EQUERRY then didn’t get another answer until 15d VIBRANCY followed by 15ac VESTIGE, which eventually gave me the unusual TRACTIVE. Another long dry spell followed until HORSEMANSHIP fell, then the top half gradually filled up, with the SW following, leaving me with a sparse looking SE. Finally spotted GATHERED and finished with AQUATINT. Dithered over KNAPWEED or SNAPWEED until I realised that KNAP sounded like the Nap of the cloth on a snooker table. Good puzzle, really made me think! Nice Blog.
  20. HI all. I’m another who had to change TRACTION to TRACTIVE to solve VESTIGE, so a slight hold up there. Another at KNAPWEED where I felt at first glance that knotweed was required. But overall, a pretty standard 20 minutes ending with a shrug at HIGH. Regards.
    1. I think qualifiers are down to the Wednesday blogger in addition to the archive puzzle that substitutes, so Pip will have it covered. Not sure when the answer is published though, and obviously the blog has to wait until then.

      Edited at 2016-04-29 06:18 pm (UTC)

      1. I shall certainly blog it, I already got a smack for leaking my fast time, didn’t know that was out of order. But am not sure when it is OK to do so, please may someone of high status (as in 7d) advise?
        1. Not of 7d status, but…

          From entry details:

          Entries must be postmarked by Wednesday, April 27,
          and the solution will appear on Thursday, April 28

          So it’d seem to be okay to publish the blog now.

          Edited at 2016-04-29 07:55 pm (UTC)

  22. 38m here so I found this easier and more enjoyable than yesterday’s offering. I liked being able to trust the cryptic, so that PTOMAINE – a word I only faintly recognised – just fell into place as did VESTIGE amongst others. 23a gets my COD – like Pip I was twisting the cryptic to get either STOIC or ARISTOTLE in until the penny dropped. Enjoyable puzzle and a good blog. Thanks, Pip!
  23. 18:09 for me, held up badly by carelessly bunging in TRACTION and rather less badly dithering over GATHERED.

    PTOMAINE was my FOI after hesitating a little because I’m so used to seeing it clued with reference to its (supposed) poisonous properties (as last Saturday!).

  24. A bit of a struggle at 35 minutes. Unlike others I got my early breaks in the SE corner and spread upwards from there. Reservations about GATHERED, on the weak side for both ‘plucked’ and ‘rose’ but put together it was obvious. FOI 12d, LOI 7d, COD 11a.
    GeoffH
  25. Oh dear. I find myself a day late, and with one wrong.

    I found this quite tough and rather slow going. Like others, I wasn’t convinced by GATHERED, and only slowly came round to the idea of a “gathering storm” or the like, and hence the equation with “rising”. AQUATINT was my last in, preceded by USABLE (which I failed to see for a very long time).

    But, I bludnered at 7d. I’d bunged in “rich” at some point, wasn’t happy with it, and intended to go back to it, but then of course I forgot. Silly me.

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