Times 25573 – Take Your Partners…

Author   jackktPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
This very lively and enjoyable puzzle took me 42 minutes parsing as I solved, so it was yet another at the easier end of the scale. There was nothing unknown although I needed all the checkers to come up with the Canadian city. There’s a faintly old-fashioned air about some of it, what with ingenues, a debutant and a posh gel all turning up, along with a couple of contrasting forms of dance and a Victorian cookery writer.

* = Anagram


Across
1 DAS RHEINGOLD – (SINGER HAD)*, OLD (past it). The opera by Richard Wagner.
9 SLUMP – L (pound) inside SUMP (depression)
10 GO IT ALONE – (I GOT)*, sounds like “A LOAN” – see 6dn
11 DEBUTANT – A TUB (a boat) all reversed inside DENT (impression)
12 ASSIST – ASS (one not very clever), 1ST (first)
13 STIPPLER – canvaS, TIPPLER (sponge, as in drunkard)
15 DALTON – ALT (key) inside DON (academic). I assume this refers to John Dalton (1766-1844) who worked on atomic theory and colour-blindness amongst many other things.
17 REGINA – A, NIGER (river) all reversed. The capital of Saskatchewan.
18 PICK-ME-UP
20 MILKED – ILK (sort) inside MED (main, as in Mediterranean Sea)
21 SHORTAGE – TAG (kiddies’ game) inside SHORE (sandy area)
24 DOCTORATE – Department, On, Committee, TO, RATE (evaluate)
25 GIGUE – GIG (concert), U (you), E (English). The French spelling of “jig”.
26 STEPCHILDREN – (CREDIT HELPS)*, N (new)

Down
1 DOS-A-DOS – DO (party), SAdDO (Billy-No-Mates), S (second). An alternative to the more familiar “do-si-do” square dance.
2 STUMBLING BLOCK – TUMBLING (falling), LB (pound) reversed, all inside SOCK (strike)
3 HOP IT – HO (house), TIP (upset) reversed. “As it were” is the reversal indicator referring back to “upset”.
4 INGENUES – IN, then Examination inside GENUS (class)
5 GRIP – GR (grain), 1P (cheapest possible price)
6 LOAN SHARK – Lean, On, A, then SH (quiet) inside NARK (police informer)
7 DOG IN THE MANGER – IN THE MAiN (mostly) inside DOGGER (bank). This is a sandbank, a hazard to shipping in the North Sea, well-known to mariners and listeners to the Shipping Forecast on BBC radio. “Checks” is the enclosure indicator here.
8 BEETON – BEET (vegetable), ON (cooking). This is Mrs Beeton, famous for her Book of Household Management.
14 PENTECOST – PEN (pound), TE (note), COST (payment)
16 HIGH-TECH – HIGH (school), TECH (college)
17 REMEDY – M (male) inside REEDY (tall, thin)
19 PRETEEN – TEn inside PREEN (dress carefully). Collins sanctions the missing hyphen.
22 RIGEL – IR (Irish) reversed, GEL(female)
23 CARP – R (right) inside CAP (hat)

27 comments on “Times 25573 – Take Your Partners…”

  1. And so hardest of the week for me. Probably because I couldn’t get into the long clues early on. But, once got, I thought they were all very good indeed. “Opera singer” in 1ac is a particularly good device.
  2. 26:42 .. pretty tricky stuff, made all the harder if you insisted on spelling it DAS RHINEGOLD, as I did, making INGENUES the last in after protracted rethinking.

    GRIP is the sort of clue that’s very satisfying to solve if you can, but I suspect I would have been infuriated by it when I was learning the ropes.

    COD .. DALTON

  3. As the half-hour approached, I was starting to get panicky about 5d, but as GRIP seemed the only possible solution,I threw it in; and parsed it after that. Billy-no-mates is as impenetrable to me now as it was then, but there weren’t too many alternatives to DOS-A-DOS (or was it Do-si-do? but that doesn’t fit). I was quite irritated with myself for being so slow on e.g. STIPPLER (which I thought of but couldn’t parse until much later), MILKED (had ILK right off, could do nothing with it), DAS RHEINGOLD (thought of ‘die Fledermaus’ and gave up), PENTECOST ( was sure it began with L), etc.
  4. 41 minutes, but with two wrong. Not knowing the spelling of the dance had me entering a Spanish version (dos-y-dos) which doesn’t bother me overly as SADDO for ‘Billy no mates’ is the sort of parsing you can only do after the fact. The other wrong was a toss-up – where my record defies the law of averages – finally plumping for ‘gain’ over GRIP. Again, not too grumpy, as GR for grain is a bit of a stretch, dictionaries notwithstanding.

    Quite a test for me altogether, as, though I saw through the ‘opera singer’ trick at once – not difficult to do so, as there are not many called Sid, Tom, Amy or Liz – I has several unknowns/unfamiliars, including GIGUE and RIGEL.

    Didn’t go a bundle on the ‘as it were’ device, but liked much, especially MILKED.

    Edited at 2013-09-06 02:14 am (UTC)

    1. I wonder if you’ve overlooked that a ‘grain’ is/was a unit of weight in one of those old systems that used to be taught at school (avoirdupois, troy?), so along with all units of measurements it needs an abbreviated form which in this case is GR.
      1. Not exactly overlooked, as I never ‘looked’ at this in the first place! A total, pukka ‘unknown’. My prep school science syllabus must have been far more progressive than I ever knew…
    2. No such law as the law of averages ulaca – one of those common phrases that actually has no basis in fact. Presumably you mean you expect to guess correctly half the time?
      1. I’m rather partial to stuff that has no basis in fact, Jim, but then it comes back to bite me. Nemesis?
  5. Messed up at first at 20ac where I put in ABUSED which almost works (“sort in the main” = AB and “exploited” = USED) with the whole ABUSED meaning exploited. I hadn’t noticed I’d made that word do double duty, but STUMBLINGBLOCK soon showed me the error of my ways. Held up for a long time on GRIP. Got there in the end but over the half hour due to the GRIP problems.
  7. Anyone who appreciates a mean political swipe will enjoy today’s puzzle by Paul in the Graun.
  8. I needed three bites at this. Particular thanks, jackkt, for unravelling DOG IN THE MANGER (had to be correct so I did not stop to parse fully) and GRIP (I once knew, but had forgotten, that meaning of ‘grain’).

    I hovered over three options for the star: RIGAL (seemed most likely on the parsing, but not a star), RIGIL (an alternative star; possibly ‘gil’ was a homophone for a ‘female’, particularly Irish) and RIGEL (‘gel’ – one of Miss jean Brodie’s girls, presumably). Only after cheating, did I plump for the ‘correct’ answer.

  9. Struggled a bit with this one, never quite tuning in to the setter. GR for grain no problem, had to learn all those awful old measures at school. Knew the dance but missed “saddo” – I agree very much the sort of thing you work out once you have the answer. A bit sad to see the “maybe” at 26A.
    1. 28:32

      Yup, grains, rods, chains, gills, bushels, quarters etc. We used to chant them in rote, which was easy as they were all set out on the back cover of standard exercise books.

  10. 13 mins so definitely on the setter’s wavelength, although I confess that I didn’t bother to parse DOG IN THE MANGER and only parsed STUMBLING BLOCK after I entered it.

    I saw DAS RHEINGOLD straight away, and I saw “saddo” for Billy-No-Mates to give me the correct spelling for 1dn. It all just flowed from there, and this was another puzzle in which there were plenty of helpful checkers. I thought the clue for STEPCHILDREN was excellent, and GRIP was my LOI, having probably spent a minute on it before I realised the definition was “bag”. It wasn’t the most obvious of synonyms.

  11. 22 mins so harder than average for me, and with one wrong.. dos-i-dos, which tells you something about the extent of my dancing knowledge and also apparently my parsing ability this am. But rigel straight in as well as Dalton 🙂
  12. Another largely straightforward puzzle, taking me 33 minutes. The one I was stuck on at the end was 5. I didn’t know (or had forgotten) GR as an abbreviation for ‘grain’. I finally ended up mentally going through all the possibilities for G _ I _, and when I got to GRIP I saw the bag connection. I very nearly entered GAIN before that.
  13. Not straightforward for me. Completed correctly but only with copious resort to aids. I shared Jimbo’s feeling of not being in tune with the setter. DOS-A-DOS suggested itself quite early on but I thought this was one of those chairs/sofas in which you sit back-to-back rather than a dance. (It turns out to be both). This caused some hesitation until I saw the “saddo” for Billy-No-Mates possibility. The two long down clues were very clever and I was slow to get both. I did not help myself by not knowing the “hoarder” sense of DOG IN A MANGER, which I had always taken simply to mean someone who is being difficult and obstructive for no good reason.

    Well blogged, Jack.

  14. Evening all… have had problems logging in today…

    Found this tough, but managed all but a couple (REGINA, RIGEL). A few unknowns today didn’t help matters: DALTON (shoot me, Jimbo!), GIGUE, plus the two I didn’t get, and a few I had trouble parsing, so many thanks for unravelling it all, Jack.

  15. Done in bits and pieces over the day so no time but would have been a slow one. A tricky number. Liked 4; so, well, simple. Had been wondering about a herb.
  16. Livejournal playing up today. This is my fourth and final attempt at this post.
    23:32 on the club timer. I found this decidedly tricky, and didn’t particularly enjoy it. Too many going in from definition. To be fair the definitions were well hidden in many cases. I was sure I was looking for a particular pointillist in 13ac, for instance.
  17. Hi

    I only look in here occasionally when I can’t quite get how some of the clues work. I pretty much always manage to solve it, probably in about an hour, but sometimes need some confirmation of my logic.

    You say there has been a run recently of easy puzzles. Is there any sense in which you feel they have been dumbed down? At my level I always feel that if the setter wants to get you, he can get you.

    I have managed to solve the occasional Listener puzzle and that to me is the pinnacle. Is there any advice about how to do that more easily and regularly? I get the feeling that an apprenticeship in solving Mephistos is probably a good idea. Would you say that they are a bit like Listeners but without the twist? I guess with Listeners you should be able to solve all the clues without entering them and then be able to play around with them before going into the grid?

    Sorry a rushed post but grateful for any comments.

    Don

    1. Don,

      Unfortunately posting on this thread so late in the day is unlikely to elicit much (if any) response to your interesting enquiry as this one is pretty much done and dusted now. I have only seen your message because as the originator of the thread I am notified by email every time somebody adds a comment.

      I don’t do Listeners or Mephistos so I am unable to help you but plenty of the regulars do and I’m sure some of them would be pleased to comment if they see your message. I’d suggest you re-post it in the discussion of one of the weekday puzzles next week, as early in the day as possible.

      Regards
      jackkt

      PS: With reference to this puzzle and the Times Cryptic generally, no, I don’t feel in any sense that things are being dumbed down. We had a run of more difficult puzzles only last week.

      Edited at 2013-09-07 04:52 am (UTC)

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