Times 24,761

Author   topicaltimPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
19:17 on the Club timer, which felt like a fair time for a tricky-ish puzzle (and from looking at my place on the scoreboard, I see my time is – in the standard unit used round here – around 1.5 Biddlecombes, which is usually about right for me; or 3 Magoos, if you prefer). I got bogged down in the SW corner at first, largely my own fault for writing in ANGLO-GERMANIC instead of ANGLO-AMERICAN; this is one of the perils of solving online, of course, rather than having pen and paper to hand for jotting down anagram fodder.

As a classicist, I was lucky enough to be familiar with 5 down, but it wouldn’t surprise me to hear a chorus of complaints about this clue demanding an excessive level of classical knowledge.

Across
1 CAVY -CAVitY.
3 ESCARPMENT – [chaP in CARMEN] in EST.
9 NIRVANA – [Rex in Northern IVAN] + A.
11 EPITHET – H.E. in English PITT, younger or elder.
12 ORANGE TIP – Observer + RAN + GET 1P.
13 TORTE – (ROT)rev. + T.E., as in Lawrence of Arabia
14 MICROSURGERY – MICrophone + SURGE in RORY. A somewhat loose definition in “operations”?
18 AMBASSADRESS – A Male BASS + ADdRESS.
21 AMOUR – A M.O. + UndercoveR.
22 DERIVABLE – East in DRIVABLE.
24 TOBACCO – (CABOT)rev. + (0 Cape)rev.
25 CULVERT – (REV)rev. in CULT
26 ORDINANCES – Other Ranks + [IN in DANCES].
27 deliberately omitted
 
Down
1 CONSOMME – raCes ON SOMME.
2 VARIANCE – New in (AVARICE)*.
4 START – double def.
5 AREOPAGUS – (A POE)rev. in ARGUS leads to the Athenian tribunal.
6 PRINTERS DEVIL – Revel in PINTER‘S DEVIL; many a famous man has been apprenticed to a printer in the past.
7 EXHORT – EX + Right in HOT.
8 TITLED – TIT + LED.
10 ANGLO AMERICAN – (ALARMINGONCEA)*; just the one G, as I failed to notice at my first attempt.
15 deliberately omitted
16 TEA BREAK – a (very English) cryptic def.
17 ASSENTED =”AS SCENTED”.
19 TATTOO – as well as the inky sort, there are drum-based tattoos, which would be quite literally beaten.
20 MORBID – (ROM)rev. + BID.
23 RECCE – RE: Coptic + C.E. = “case” as in casing the joint.

55 comments on “Times 24,761”

  1. I was very slow to see the obvious and took ages to see answers such as microsurgery even with all the down letters filled in. I wasn’t familiar with Areopagus or Printer’s Devil so had to resort to aids for those.
    Louise
  2. 47 minutes. Entirely my own fault that it took so long: carelessly put in EPIGRAM instead of EPITHET and then, looking for a little humour, convinced myself that Irishman’s operations were O’Surgery.

    20 dn.Colloquially, MORBID and macabre have long been interchangeable; but there is a difference between MORBID, relating to disease, sickliness or unhealthiness either physical or mental, and macabre, to do with death or the gruesome. I regret the loss of a useful distinction.

    1. You can comfort yourself at the loss of these distinctions by contemplating the possibilities afforded by new coinings. Soon you will wonder how you ever did without words like microdermabrasion or Z-lister.
      I’m fascinated by this constant evolution of the language but I find most people are completely disinterested.
            1. No problem. Attempts at dry humour often don’t come across in this forum but I’m afraid I’m too much of a fuddy duddy for emoticons.
              I did an informal survey recently to see how many people I could find who knew the “real” meaning of the word disinterested. I quite quickly reached the conclusion that the majority of people who think it means uninterested is so overwhelming that practically speaking it does.
              1. We were browbeaten about this 50 years ago at school: which shows that most people haven’t bothered about it since long before then.
              2. You are however in excellent company. My first edition of Fowler’s Modern English Usage says: “..A valuable differentiation is in need of rescue, if it not already too late.”
                But it was.
      2. My initial thought was that this use of ‘disinterest’ was wrong, and that what you meant was ‘uninterested.’ However my OED says that as well as ‘impartial,’ disinterest can mean ‘lack of interest. I wonder, however why someone interested in the evolution of language uses a word that is possbily ambiguous when one with an obvious meaning is available. I know I should get out more.
        From the male half of Doniovanni
        1. Interesting. Eventually of course a dictionary has to catch up with usage, but this does make me wonder if the “new” meaning of disinterested has been around for longer than I thought.
          1. My Shorter Oxford finds an example meaning uninterested from 1612, but notes that such usage is obsolete. The sense of “unbiased by personal interest” is labelled “now always” and an example cited from 1659. Fowler notes with some concern, however, that the 1933 OED supplement removed the qualification “obsolete” from the former meaning and concludes “A valuable differentiation is thus in need of rescue, if it is not too late”. I’m with Fowler.
            1. What a very learned blog this is – the same quotation from two sources within 15 minutes!
              When I studied English Fowler was a figure of ridicule: I wonder if that is still the case. In my heart I’m with him and you, but in my head I know that we are all with Canute.
              1. Having, as a boy, been beaten about the head in English lessons with Fowler’s Modern English Usage (alternated with Palgrave’s Golden Treasury) I can say, like Spike Jones, that he did make a bad impression on my mind. I nonetheless always admired Fowler’s insistence on precision and subtlety when it came to choosing the right word.

                I agree, however, that the evolution of language is a Tyranny of the Majority: it is pointless trying to write elegantly and precisely if your audience misinterprets your words, no matter how righteous you might feel in choosing le mot juste.

                1. Indeed. You end up being the only one marching in step.
                  My first point was a semi-serious one: language reinvents itself all the time and there is pleasure to be had in new words. The idea that language deteriorates is a myth, and a very old one at that.
                  The trouble is that the words and distinctions that pass out of usage are ones that we know and like. The new ones are a bit minging.
  3. Had I heard of the 5d watchman, this would have been an enjoyable 20 minute solve for me today .
  4. I agree this was tricky – 28 minutes in total, probably 5 of which on the unknown AREOPAGUS at the end. Obscure but gettable.
    CAVY and PRINTER’S DEVIL was also new to me, but also gettable. As for ORANGE TIP, when I see references to butterflies, moths or plants I know I’m reliant on wordplay alone. So all in all no real complaints but a sense of relief not to have made any mistakes.
    Generally this was one of those where the answers come from grinding through the options rather than inspiration. Not the most enjoyable puzzle as a result but a good workout.
  5. Not too bad, but resorted to aids for the court and the apprentice. Found I had almost got to both through wordplay, having thought of both POE and PINTER. Not much else to say on this one, didn’t think any particular clue stood out as CoD.
  6. At 37 mins a new PB for the Doniovanni team..our normal time is probably 15 PBs (the other one) with reliance on aids. So an enjoyable and encouraging solve for us today. Liked 16 & 19 dn.
  7. Had to go all the way back to Olevel Greek (maybe it did have some use after all) and Alevel English (we struggled with Milton’s Areopagitica) to get 5d. It took a while and went in last.
  8. 35 minutes for what I did, then nearly as long again staring at 5dn and 14ac before resorting to aids.

    With all the checkers in place at 5dn apart from the G I had considered POE as the writer for reversal but couldn’t make a word of it. This clue requires two somewhat obscure bits of GK so I’m not sure that it’s entirely fair in a daily cryptic.

    MICRO was guessable for the first part of 14ac but I never saw MIC as a possible for “bug” and I’m afraid I woindered if it might have something to do with a possibly derogatory term for Irishman. I thought MICROCULTURE might be a fit for ‘Bug, possibly’ so I spent some time working on that but couldn’t make any of the wordplay work.

    Other than that it was an excellent puzzle. Just a shame that the two most difficult clues intersected.

  9. Cabot was, of course, a Bristol man, as British as, say, Marconi.

    This one took me 14 minutes, so quicker than average, but enjoyable nonetheless.
    I particularly appreciated TEABREAK, but CoD to RECCE, for a neat clue.

  10. 1PB+16 seconds today – really proud! (Great to see that that Peter Biddlecombe has become an accepted unit of measurement for solving time.) I think Olivia and I must have had the same school experience – I did O level Greek and A level English including the Areopagitica too! I have always found these subjects (and O level Latin) particularly useful in Times crosswords.
    1. Congratulations Vallaw! Unfortunately it puts you that much further beyond my aspirations. Whatever Magoo has for breakfast, I’ll have what he’s having. The rarefied air of the top 30 is far too thin for me, but I must admit that it’s quite a pleasure when the contraband breathing apparatus the cheats are using breaks down and sends one or other of them plummeting down amongst the rest of us peons where they belong.
  11. Did not know CAVY or AREOPAGUS and hence DNF as I could not resolve wordplay. Entered MICROSURGERY but unconvinced by the wordplay: still cannot see how ‘bug’ = ‘mic’ (or ‘micro’). Overall a touch too esoteric for my taste …
    1. In sorting out the Church’s sound system, I’ve had to get used to writing “mic” rather than “mike” for microphone – apparently it’s the standard abbreviation. Bugs, of course, are the concealed variety that pick up James Bond’s conversations.
  12. Was AREOPAGUS “gettable”? Despite working on A POE backwards I didn’t know the court or who ARGUS was. So, with no education to speak of, only gettable by fluke, alas the fluke eluding me. Can’t grumble though as I needed aids for CAVY aswell.
    But every cloud… First in was MICROSURGERY. How do you like them apples?
    1. I didn’t know of Argus in this sense either but got it on the basis that “Argus” for a newspaper must come from somewhere, and “watchman” for a newspaper seemed fitting. A bit of a fluke on reflection, helped by this particular Argus which always sticks in my mind:
      Thanks to the publicity given to the matter by The Bridgnorth, Shifnal and Albrighton Argus (with which is incorporated The Wheat-Growers’ Intelligencer and Stock-breeders’ Gazetteer), the whole world to-day knows that the silver medal in the Fat Pigs class at the eighty-seventh annual Shropshire Agricultural Show was won by the Earl of Emsworth’s black Berkshire sow, Empress of Blandings.
  13. Needed an aid for 5dn, otherwise enjoyable.
    Is this a first reference to Pinter since his demise?
  14. 23:06 .. quite a contrast in style and difficulty with yesterday’s puzzle.

    I don’t see 5d as an unfair clue – the ‘Argus’ component would be guessable from its common use as a newspaper name, making the wordplay tricky but achievable once the crossing letters were in place.

    I do think the ‘PB’ is the only practicable unit of solving time. The Magoo is really only applicable to conditions found near the centre of black holes where time itself is distorted.

  15. very happy to finish that, albeit with aids, as there were so many words i did not know – areopagus, cavy, printer’s devil. and to round off my general ignorance i always thought of cabot as english!
  16. I found this quite challenging and very enjoyable. I had no problem with AREOPAGUS – like others here I did Milton in school and, as every schoolboy used to kno, Argus was the one with all the eyes. I failed to work out the cryptic for MICROSURGERY because I didn’t know RORY was Irish. I always associated the name with Scotland. But with the crossing letters the answer fell into place. 42 minutes.
  17. Properly done in by AREOPAGUS, but no surprises there. I must have been off school that day. After a promising start I ground to reneging finish, but enjoyed it none the less. COD to TORTE for the sheer audacity of “Lawrence initially”.

    I think getting MICROSURGERY straight off the bat earns you bragging rights for at least a week, Barry.

  18. An easy puzzle except for 5D and 14A as many others have noted and I don’t think much of either of them.

    I guessed MICROSURGERY from MIC for Irish and SURGERY for operations – so right answer by wrong route.

    I guessed POE from checking letters, ARGUS from doing these puzzles and Chambers to confirm. Ridiculously obscure.

    Roll on the day when “tau lepton” makes an appearance.

  19. Another nice effort, completed in 15mins or so. No trouble with microsurgery but the areopagus was last in, dredged up from subterranean storehouse. I never ever complain about esoteric words, how else will we extend our vocabulary?

    Cabot was a citizen of Venice who signed himself Zuan Chabotto, as English as I am Italian, ie not even a little bit..

    1. You must let us know what sort of reaction you get next time you throw areopagus into the conversation down at the local
      1. Difficult.. the Magistrates’ Areopagus in Maidstone is to be closed down, leaving almost nothing in this part of Kent
  20. yes, i’d like to see something like “riemann surface” or “elliptic curve”. that would sort the smug classicists out. ;-). (that is a joke by the way in case anyone takes it too seriously)
  21. An hour and 25 minutes for this, with the NW (5, 14 and 1) last in, but 13ac corrected on post-solve read through (from ‘tarle’ to TORTE). Another good puzzle. AREOPAGUS from literal, CAVY from wordplay. COD to RECCE – one of my father’s favourite words, along with ‘swish’, which we had recently but I miserably failed to get.
  22. Interesting – I was done in 22:16, most of that trying to cram wordplay into AREOPAGUS, then submitted and saw I have three wrong.

    Checking back on the crossword I can see two typos, but one is in a checking letter (TOCACCO crossing MORCID) so I think the Crossword Club counts you as wrong twice if it’s a checking letter. Makes sense I guess

  23. 24 minutes here, so close on the heels of sotira and glheard for a change – usually they’re out of sight. Don’t see anything wrong with any of the clues (except maybe counsel for exhort). Just enough edge to get that “click” in the blood.
  25. Like just about everyone else, I struggled over 5 and 14. Got ‘Areopagus’ without reference to the clue; suddenly it came to me once I had a couple of crossing letters and Poe. While ‘Areopagus’ is obscure, I was surprised at the complaints about ‘Argus’; Argus, Hydra, Cerberus…we got them in high school or earlier, like it or not. Congratulations, Vallaw!
  26. 10.5 hours, a couple of which were spent trying to sleep through the Sydney heatwave. A PB x 50, not my best performance. Luckily, I’m probably talking to myself by now.

    But I was determined to finish, and so I did. Like Tim I rushed into entering ANGLO-GERMANIC; that took several hours to sort out, making his 19:17 all the more impressive. Didn’t consider RORY as an Irishman despite those Rory Gallagher lps lurking in my record collection. And Argus proved elusive, even though my local paper used to be the Telegraph and Argus, and I even worked there for a time.

    I see Wiki describes Argus as a neatherd. I bet it won’t be long before we see a neat around these parts again.

  27. A sluggish 11:00 for me. I’m afraid the days when I might have challenged Magoo are long gone, but I seemed to make unduly heavy weather of today’s puzzle. For example I bunged in NIRVANA but then deleted it straight away because I thought the “northern man” was IAN and couldn’t get my head round the rest of the clue. (Doh!)

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