Times 24434

47 comments on “Times 24434”

1. Most definitely 1 Ac = SEABIRDS: INTERNET contains TERN and ERNE – both seabirds. Arrrrghhhh!

   25 unhurried and enjoyable minutes here. No complaints, but no COD. Unless, just maybe, 1 Ac?

2. Tern and erne are hidden inside Internet. A neat clue, my last in.
   1. D’oh!!!!!! I expected I was missing something blisterningly simple and found out withing two minutes of posting.
3. 27 minutes while watching the first day of the Test. (Hope you’re enjoying it George.) Took me a while to find the “tern” and the “erne”, as well; which held up most of the NW corner. And … two poets; though a certain someone may also like to know that Goethe had an interesting colour theory, based on a critique of Newton. Some say it was completely wrong-headed, but I’ve seen a demonstration of it using actual prisms. You can get DIY instructions here:
   Bjelic, D. & Lynch, M. (1992). ‘The work of a (scientific) demonstration: respecifying Newton’s and Goethe’s theories of prismatic color’, In: Watson, G. & Seiler, R.M. (eds) Text in Context: Contributions to ethnomethodology, pp. 52-78. London: Sage.
   1. Enjoying the second session more than the first, but it’s been entertaining. I know of Geothe’s scientific leanings more from studying Runge and caffeine, but it does appear he had his fingers in many struedels.
4. Wow. Got through this in 24 minutes, about a third of the usual time, finishing with KRIS (which I hadn’t seen before) and SEABIRDS.
   This is my first posting on here, having just bought myself a subscription to the crossword club. Finally got fed up of having to buy The Australian every day to do a six week old puzzle. So thanks to all the regulars for your tips and diversions which I’ve been enjoying silently for the last six months or so.
   1. Welcome from a very sunny WA. I know the pain of doing the Times in the Oz very well. A sub is a much better bet.
5. 9ac – senior solvers will recognise the “rod, pole or perch” collection!

   Kurihan

6. Hello to all the Antipodeans. I got through this in the very quick time, for me, of about 12 minutes. I didn’t have a problem with the SEABIRDS, but went around clockwise, first entry STOPWATCH, last PAWNEES, which is my COD, and where the def. was apparent, but it took me a few seconds to see the clever cryptic, i.e. the opposite of the ‘pawners’. I’m still up in the air on what the Cockneys would be meaning in 18D. Cor blimey, indeed. The only reason I saw TICKETY-BOO was that it had appeared here before, and once introduced, was hard to forget. Reagrds to everyone.
   1. And, for repeats, PAWNEE(S) which appeared this time last week.
7. I have a horrible feeling that 18 really is as George has suggested. Unless there’s something more to it, what a dreadful clue! I think 23 is feeble too, but apart from all that it was a very lively and enjoyable puzzle which I completed in about 30 minutes. SEABIRDS at 1ac is definitely my COD but I also liked 25 inevitably for reminding me of the Johnny Mercer / Saul Chaplin song “Everything Is Ticketty-Boo” which uses the alternative spelling.
   1. With apologies to George, if (h)onest (h)ep is what’s intended, that really is gruesome. (I hadn’t believed it could be.) The editor should have stepped in to prevent that one. The puzzle overall is quite clever and very well put together, though. I realize I’m trying to be nice, but the rest is really well put together.
   2. I’m not happy to be reminded of “Everything is Tickety Boo” as Danny Kaye has being going round my head all morning. Perhaps the tune of the day should be “Take a little one step” from “No No Nanette”.
8. Getting stuck on only one or two SEABIRDS being the one today. But what a lovely clue. Solving times getting better as well. It’s been near a year with the online club.
9. Amazon doesn’t appear to have it MC.

   Pristine printout, completed in the equivalent of sub-4 minutes for the speedsters, ie about 45 minutes. What now?
   Didn’t understand SEABIRDS which inevitably gets my COD. Default reasoning for DISHONOUR, ie if I don’t get it, must be something to do with bridge.

   1. It doesn’t make much odds today, when serious card play is monopolised by bridge, but “honours” precede bridge by a long way, going back at least as far as Ruff and Honours, a 17th century ancestor of whist.
   2. > Amazon doesn’t appear to have it MC.
      PM sent.
10. (I’ve just used my admin powers to delete kevin_from_ny’s duplicate post and subsequent apology.)

    On form this morning after warming up with quite a tricky Times2 puzzle, and solved this in 4:45. Didn’t see 1A on first look, but all the checkers were there after looking at intersecting downs from 5, 8, 9 and then the penny dropped. 6, 18 and the back end of 21 were among the few other clues that needed a second look. 18 filled in from checkers and ‘dance’ but I don’t understand the objections – we all know what Cockney usually means, so why not ‘ave a clue that does it twice? (I say “usually” in case another Cockney accent feature gets used tomorrow.)

    Edited at 2010-01-14 08:19 am (UTC)

    1. I think Lenny and Dyste (below)have covered my main objections to this clue but would add that it’s the apparent randomness of the words chosen for the traditional Cockney treatment that make it so unsatisfactory. They have no connection with each other either when read or when spoken, with or without the dropped aitches.

       On top of that “Hep” seems to be listed only as an alternative spelling of another (slang) word that I doubt anyone has used seriously for at least 50 years.

       1. I don’t understand the complaint about “no connection with each other”. Look at 5D for example: the only connection between “genes” and “is” is that the words that clue them – “What close relative inherits is” – are a plausible beginning of a phrase. Likewise “really fashionable” in this clue. Much the same applies to battlefield/good in 10 and awful/temperature in 7.
11. This is a clever idea, but does ‘downloadable’ really work here?

    I’ll be interested to see whether anyone approves of ONE-STEP.

    Paul S.

12. Done on the train to London whilst chatting to my boss about work so no reliable time but it felt like a 20 minuter. I didn’t see how spades worked nor the ep part of one-step but I think the clue is fine. The chicken one not so as in my world it’s always the yoke.

    1 across rock the 80s collaboration between the theramin player out of Japan and the stylophone player out of A Flock of Seagulls: Kimono Seabirds

    1. Yolk!
13. One of my quickest solves ever at around 20 minutes. Those clues that didn’t go in on first look went in second time around with checkers. SEABIRDS, TERM, YELLOW and ONE STEP all entered without full understanding. Lots of elegant clues here – in particular I liked WATERLOG, WORDSWORTH, TICKETY BOO and, with a nod to my wife, HOUSE PROUD.
14. Very fast for me also – just over 10 minutes. Held up by SEA BIRDS – very clever and I’ll forgive any looseness in “downloadable” for the sake of a good and original clue. How the same setter can come up with ‘onest ‘ep quite defeats me. I’m a real Cockney by birth and I suggest the setter puts his affairs in order and then tries walking down Bethnal Green Road asking people if they’re ‘ep. The rest of it is fine – good fun in fact.
    1. 1A and 18 down both use “crossword logic” and push it a bit – once for Cockney speech, once for a cheeky hidden word indication. If there’s someone who likes 18 and not 1A, which seems quite possible, what’s the conclusion then?
       1. That this broad church has room for all, however misguided.
          1. Indeed! “hep” may not be current Cockney or current anything else, but I can imagine a modern Cockney pronouncing it as required should they have to utter the word. The objection to ‘onest as “Cockney” when the H is silent carries more logical force for me.
15. This tends to confirm the theory that setters save their best and hardest clue for 1 Across. Otherwise there was some fairly uninspired cluing with two poets, two monks and three bridge references. The dropped Hs in 18 do not, in my view, justify a Cockney clue. I agree with those who think that ‘onest ‘ep is ‘orrible because it is not ‘omophonic.

    My Christian Brother education balks at the idea of brother being synonymous with monk. The key difference is that monks are priests and brothers are lay. Perhaps the definition is looser in other religions.

    1. For Collins and ODE a monk is “a male member of a religious order bound by vows …” – their defs are identical in meaning. Chambers recognises that a monk is strictly any such member except a friar, but says that a looser version includes friars too.

       ODE has brother as “a member of a religious order of men”, Collins gives “lay member” or “who undertakes work for the order without being in holy orders”, and Chambers has “fellow member …” or “lay member …”. As far as I can see, that means each one allows a brother to be a monk.

       There aren’t really two monks or three bridge references – one of each is just content of the surface, not something you have to “solve” as part of the clue. And see prev. comment for honours as bridge-specific.

       Edited at 2010-01-14 11:26 am (UTC)

16. Another good one today, 20mins ie about average difficulty, cod surely 1ac for its originality..

    I well understand the crossword convention that “cockney,” “east end” etc means to drop an H or two, and I like to give setters space, but somehow these clues always make me wince. Jimbo, having lived in Shoreditch (and not having your build) I wouldn’t dare talk to anyone at all in Bethnal Green road these days 🙂

17. Wish I’d had a stopwatch on this one, coming in at around 20 minutes, which must be close to a record for me, and that included the obligatory 5 minutes looking at SEABIRDS and wondering why (thought it must have something to do with web feet). Very much liked the rod, pole, perch allusion at 9ac which puts me in Kurihan’s senior solver group; grey and proud! COD to SEABIRDS for its novelty value.
18. On the whole, as others have said, straightforward – ie. just under 30 mins for me. Peter B’s 4.45 mins is stonkingly good. I’m with those who found ONE-STEP wince-inducing (assuming George’s explanation is the correct one), but it didn’t cause much difficulty so I wouldn’t complain unduly. I was totally mystified by the wordplay of SEABIRDS, but it was the only possible solution once the checking letters were in place. I assumed it must be a reference to some arcane piece of IT jargon unknown to me. Now that it’s been explained – thanks guys for the Doh! moment – it’s my joint-COD along with TICKETY-BOO. Other good’uns were WATERLOG, WORDSWORTH, HOUSE-PROUD and PAWNEES (though the fact that PAWNEE had appeared so recently in another puzzle may have made it easier to get than might otherwise have been the case).

19. Certainly the easiest of the week so far, completed in 19 minutes, though without understanding 1ac. Now I’ve seen the explanation it is very clever, though ‘downloadable’ weakens it. Perhaps the ease of the puzzle has something to do with the number of anagrams.
    I agree with jackkt that 23 is a feeble clue, and 18 is just ‘orrible. I know that Cockney clues do not have to be phonically faithful, but I think they work far better when they are.
20. ….of which 10 was spent trying to figure out ‘seabirds’, without success. Some of the clues were just too easy for my taste, making it mostly a beginner puzzle.
21. 30 mins for me. The last 10 minutes of which were spent on the 18/19/23 combination in the SE corner, and 1a. Otherwise a very straightforward solve.

    I agree with the majority that 18 is just awful. How a Cockney is supposed to drop a silent H is beyond me. 23 I though was weak, and 19 I didn’t fully understand but was on the right lines. 1a went in with no understanding at all, just as a word for fliers that fitted, so thanks to rosselliott for the explanation.

22. A leisurely 40 minutes albeit with one mistake – 10 Ac WATERBOY (thinking of the battle of the Boyne. Not sure where “originally” is required in 24 Ac; enjoyed HOUSEPROUD, GENESIS and HIDEOUT.
    1. “originally” is the anagram indicator – I guess you could see “person demanding” as the def., and “right” as the AI, but “person demanding right [=entitlement]” seems a better def.
23. One of my best times at just over 16 minutes, so puzzle must be towards the easy end of the spectrum. Another indication of this was the number of clues that I solved cold without checking letters. I still like to go through all the clues first before using any checking letters. I know it is not sensible but cold solving is a stimulating challenge.

    Last in was SEABIRDS and only then on the grounds that it fitted the definition and the available letters.

    Liked WATERLOG.

24. 5.52 today. Under 6 minutes is a rarity for me so I don’t expect anything as easy as this for a good while. I didn’t see 18 but it had to go in. Last to go in was SEABIRDS which was an excellent original clue , has to be a modern classic. Well done to the setter.
    Other than that I got a lot of help from some easyish anagrams
25. Sorry but what is 24A? One of only three I couldn’t solve.
    1. Claimant, from ain’t calm. I missed two, but got that one!
       1. Thanks! Think the word ‘originally’ threw me off in that one…
26. I read 5d as gene-sis. Gene is inherited, and sis being the relative. Mind you, what do I know?I couldn’t get 19d and guessed 7d.
27. A leisurely 23 minutes for me. 18D reminds me of the P.G.Wodehouse character PSMITH, who could always tell if people pronounced his name without the (silent) P.
28. Isn’t 1A a subtle example of “Definition by example”? (or in this case, two examples).
    1. Sorry, please ignore previous comment. Of course it isn’t.

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