Times 24433 – 4 x 2

Author   petebiddlecombePosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Solving time: 7:54

There’s some quite subtle wordplay in this puzzle – such as the four two-word phrases used in 9, 17, 28, 1D. Still recovering here from the fun of tackling Beethoven 9 in a choir rehearsal for the first time in my life, so I’d hoped for something musical on which I couuld hang a mention of it. The West Side Story reference isn’t bad as a consolation prize.

Across
1 BEAN = runner, BAG = rev. of gab = “speaker’s gift”. Not really convinced by “toy” as the def – the smaller version is something readers of my generation might remember using in infant/primary school organised games, so it’s something you play with, but it would make a pretty dull toy.
5 TONIGHT = song from West Side Story. ON = performing in TIGHT = tense. Other possibles for what turned out to be the def were Somewhere and Maria and America – thanks lennyco – some time wasted here trying to get MARIA into the wordplay. Between them, Leonard Bernstein and lyricist Stephen Sondheim were a fan of the Times crossword and the man who did most to introduce cryptic xwds to the USA. They did some good work for setters with the one-word titles, but they slipped up a bit by using 16 letters for Gee, Officer Krupke. That’s enough West Side Story songs. Ed
9 SE(QUEST)E RED – the first of our two-word phrases in wordplay – “hit the roof” = SEE RED – with the added fun that “hit the roof” can be past tense, and the -ED ending fits this idea, so you can end up wondering whether there’s another ??QUESTERED word making a recognisable “??ERED” word as the container, and then thinking that “seer” must be a verb you’ve never heard of.
10 AN(n)A – once upon a time, an anna was a sixteenth of a rupee. New solvers: note the “half-hearted” trick as you’ll see it many times, especially in the Times puzzle
11 O = old, LIVER = organ – simple but produces a nice surface reading
12 A,D(H.E.’S)IVE – first answer for me, with “sleazy bar” = DIVE an easy spot
14 ESPRIT DE CORPS = (stripper’s code)* – solved from checkers alone
17 UNDER W(HELM)ING – helm = tiller = nautical steering wheel, and UNDER WING = “protegé’s position” is our second two-worder
21 TEE = support (for golf ball),NAGER = rev. of Regan = princess (King Lear). Anyone ponder BRA+NAGER?
23 MORALE – A,L = “a lake” in MORE = Sir Thomas – I wondered briefly how Beecham could play a part in a 6-letter word with no subtraction indicator
26 PO = river (yet again), ME = my = “your’s truly’s”, GRAN = nanny, ATE – see comment from (e.g.) jackkt for another reading which avoids the need for [ME = my].
27 SERIOUS – (E,RIO = port (yet again again)) in S=south, U.S. = America. “South America” can also indicate SA when they get bored of using “South Africa”.
28 DRA = rev. of “a Rd.”,GO ON = continue – our third two-worder
 
Down
1 BOSTON = rev. of “not sob” = “keep stiff upper lip” – part of my last two in – this entry and the first two letters of 9, just in case there was another “??QUESTERED” word, not having seen(!) “see red” at this point. Our fourth and last two-worder. US solvers may have been intrigued by the crossing with 1A, Boston being “Beantown”.
2 ACQUIRE = “a choir” or A,”choir” – it doesn’t matter which
3 BEE-KEEPER – cryptic def., honey being the “sweetener”
4 GATE = “gait”
5 TARA = “seat of Irish kings”,DIDDLE = rip-off – I struggled more than I should have done here, knowing the musical version of taradiddle confusing it with paradiddle – a drumming technique – rather than knowing the dictionary meaning – pretentious nonsense. So I played around with “fiddle” = rip-off, and then left it until TARA’s role and position became obvious. A rare occasion when my “musical mafia” membership is a handicap – and so is bad memory – thanks to Sotira for the correction
6 NUD(G)E – “with nothing on” being “in the nude”
7 G = “being ultimately”,LAZIER
8 T(RAVERS)E- with ‘cross’ changing from adj. to verb. between surface and cryptic readings
13 MICHAELMAS = (claim has me)* – one of the old quarter days when rents were due
15 CHIPOLATA – HIP = cool, in COL. = officer, AT, A – the fact that “officer” can also be C.O. might cause a bit of wordplay consternation
16 BUT = rev. of tub = vessel,TRESS = lock – defined by referring to these
18 DREAMER – we stay with church architecture here for a def./cryptic def. combo, the latter referring to “city of dreaming spires”
19 GU(y)ANA,CO. – the guanaco is one of those S American camelids – repeat after me: llama, alpaca, guanaco, vicuña
20 HER,EON – “supported by this” being the def.
22 A (P) PRO – “appro” is a shortening of “approval” listed in Collins. You can examine things which are “on approval” before committing to purchase them. I seem to remember you were allowed to do this when buying stamps for your collection, though what excuse you might find to reject a set of stamps is hard to imagine.
24 AGED – reverse hidden in Tredegar

50 comments on “Times 24433 – 4 x 2”

  1. Just over 30 minutes today. It would have been under but for carelessly misspelling POMEGRANATE (ending ITE) which made 19dn harder than it should have been.

    Two references to musical theatre may unfortunately be our ration for the week.

  2. Frustratingly, needed solver to get the N in ANA in order to finish.
    Suggested new setting convention: Where the required answer is qualified in dictionaries as archaic it should be readily solvable from the wordplay. Combination of the half-hearted trick which I’ve not met before, the use of ready for money (?) and an answer which I have never heard of was too much for this solver.
    Otherwise quick time with only delays (until pennies dropped) wondering what on earth a HEREON is and if there really is an Eastern princess called a NAGER.
    1. Barry,

      I’m pretty sure ANA has cropped up in the Times daily quite recently. But for that I think I would have struggled with that one too: although I knew what the half-hearted bit was getting at I’d completely forgotten the anna/rupee link besides which the ready = money “penny” didn’t drop either. You have my sympathy.

  3. A straightforward but pleasing and rather elegant one today, about 18mins just after midnight.. cod underwhelming
  4. Again not a difficult puzzle – 20 minutes to solve. Jack was clearly very taken with the musical references but I’m surprised he hasn’t mentioned “well over the hill” to define AGED – I certainly object to it (not for the first time!)

    Beanbags were toys in the years after the war when even wooden blocks were given to us to play with. They were also used in the treatment of asthma. I had to attend hospital twice a week where treatment consisted of picking up a beanbag up with ones feet. One day the world will need somebody who can manipulate beanbags with both feet and I shall be there! (A little later the cat died and my asthma improved dramatically)

    1. I didn’t notice it, Jimbo, but I’m not sure I would have taken offence on this occasion. If I remember correctly the last time we both objected to something like this the reference was “past it” which I do think is insulting.
    2. I think working out how picking up a beanbag with your feet works as an asthma treatment will keep me busy much longer than today’s puzzle!
      1. If ever you work it out please let me know. The various members of the medical profession that I have asked about it over the years either don’t believe me or just shrug and say something about asthma not being understood in the 1940s.
        1. Jimbo, I think it may have been a sort of “cure-all” exercise they employed when they didn’t know what else to do because it was a skill I was encouraged to learn when I attended a clinic in the 1950s allegedly suffering from underdeveloped muscles in the legs that apparently made me walk rather oddly. I was completely oblivious to this at the time but I suppose my parents had noticed something and sought medical advice.

          I can see how it might relate to my “problem” (whatever it was it resolved itself eventually ) but as a cure for asthma it does seem a little far-fetched unless it was some sort of distraction technique like the cold key down the back as a cure for hiccoughs?

  5. Quite enjoyed this puzzle as it seemed to be hard-ish and yet it went quite smoothly. I guess that is the way you always want it to go – I have definitely seen ones that seem easy and are heavy going, and that is not fun! I think the “two word” phrases in the word play were acceptable, both because in the case of SEE-RED and GO-ON they have been used a few times before, and with the other two the checkers and definition made it fairly clear cut.

    A few gripes might be that for 5D(as people often say) to have two obscure references in the same clue is a bit harsh. Maybe my knowledge of Ireland is lacking but left with T_R_DIDDLE, it was a complete guess as to what happened next. Thankfully TARA sounded Irishish so I plumped for that.

    Ditto not equating BEANBAG to toy – that maybe a time thing, perhaps 50 years ago they would be far more common as what I know as HACKY-SACK, and far less common as yuppie furniture, but such is the passage of time.

    Finally, if I am being overly picky then ME for MY in 26A is perhaps a leap too far. I appreciate the cockney cheeky chappy type usage, but in the queens english they are two separate parts of speech and hence the surface to cryptic switch doesnt work. Then again, I normally think that anything is fair if the answer prevails, so we can let that one go.

    1. Brainwave route to TARA: Gone with the Wind, where it’s the home of Scarlett O’Hara (Irish surname), so presumably refers to the Irish version.

      me = my: a tricky one – seemed familiar from memory and not just Cockney – my Lancastrian mother used it, and ODE has it as “informal & W Indian”. But unless I’m being blind, Concise Oxford, Collins (old edition) and Chambers all fail to mention it under “me”.

      1. I read the clue as: Yours truly = ME, apostrophe “s” stands for “has” i.e. is next to, Nanny = GRAN.
      2. I thought (sung to the tune of Greensleeves)

        The harp that once through Tara’s halls the soul of music shed (tra-la)
        Now hangs as mute on Tara’s walls as if that soul had fled

        a poem by Thomas Moore with a double-o (so Google tells me).

        I thought “me gran”, although fluent Australian English,
        was a bit suspect and thought the “‘s” could stand for “has” to sidestep the quibble.

          1. Hi, koro, great minds and all that! I’m sure it’s what the setter had in mind as I can’t find any dictionary support for “me” = “my”, not even in Chambers Slang Dictionary.
  6. This was enjoyable but not demanding enough for a morning when I am snowed in. I finished with Appro and Hereon. Appro came after I failed to justify Aspro, Hereon came from the wordplay, with further time staring at the answer that I assumed was pronounced her-eon rather than here-on.

    I got Ana from the definition, not understanding the “ready once” but I should have because I have seen it before. Peter did not mention America for 3A. Try as I may, I could not justify its meaning “tense about performing”.

  7. 10:59 here, so easier than average – although while solving the wordplay seemed to be quite tricky in places. 1A and 1D were the first two in for me, and the solve carried on like that with the whole of the top half in before I looked at the bottom, finishing with HEREON/DRAGOON.

    I’m definitely not a member of the musical mafia, but I did briefly learn the drums at school and knew the musical meaning of TARADIDDLE, but I’ve also come across the “nonsense” meaning too in a previous barred crossword. Quite a tuneful puzzle with that and two stage musicals mentioned.

  8. I found this a bit easier than the previous two this week, finishing in 25 minutes. They were good clues in general, but I liked 16 in particular.
    The only time I’ve come across ‘taradiddle’ was in an edition of Call My Bluff.
  9. About 30 mins for me. Last in was APPRO which I’ve never come across.

    If anyone has seen Gilbert and Sullivan’s Iolanthe, there is one song where everyone is singing
    “taradiddle taradiddle tol lol lay” as the chorus so I managed to write that it without even thinking too much about where TARA was.

  10. Just under 26 minutes, so quite pleased.

    Last in was ANA on a bit of a wing and a prayer.

    I was thrown for a short while by putting in CRAG instead of AGED at 24d. CRAG is hidden backwards in ‘Tredegar climbing’ and can just about mean hill.

    I can’t see any problem with two-word wordplays.

    I enjoyed this puzzle with potential CODs in UNDERWHELMING, TEENAGER (where I was thinking of bra as the support for a while) and CHIPOLATA.

  11. 13:25 .. the last few minutes devoted to HEREON and GUANACO before the two pennies dropped.

    Pete – I thought the drumming technique was ‘paradiddle’.

  12. Another day, another struggle; from CRAG at 24d (it is in there, sort of) to HEREON (which I also stared at in disbelief for almost as long after I got it as before). Also stared at SERIOUS for a long time wondering who the SEUS were. It was that kind of day. And as for the spires of Oxford, the allusion eluded me. COD to SEQUESTERED, not least for the crossing Q.
  13. Like others I completed this fairly quickly (15:30) whilst considering it quite tricky at the time. Not sure what that means.

    Ana and teenager from def, appro and taradiddle from wordplay. Like others it took a while to see hereon as here on.

    There are plenty of musical references in here if you look hard enough: US rockers Boston, Dreamer by Supertramp, Teenager (in love), Jermaine Jackson’s (let’s get) serious and not forgetting the 2008 single by the fabulous The Hold Steady, Sequestered in Memphis. I’m surprised Sotira didn’t spot today’s 1 across rock, childrens’ tv favourites Beanbag Dragoon.

    1. mea culpa … I was a bit distracted by Elvis Costello’s “I Don’t Guanaco to Chelsea”
        1. Thank you, Barry. At the moment I make a laughable living, which is close. Now I just have to find someone with your exemplary taste, pots of money and no sense.
  14. 8.25 so pretty quick solve but as with many of you I was entering answers without properly understanding the wordplay. At 9 I assumed seered was a dialect variant of soared (!) Also 1d, 17 and 26 came into same category. I probably was lucky that I never had a BEANBAG as a toy as a child although I do remember them as being used in PE and games. COD was 27 where I was also trying to work out where the SEUS people came from – although a careful reading of the clue would have explained all.
    14 also gave us a nice pair (of anagrams)
  15. About 30 minutes, and like others my last entry was HEREON from the wordplay, and not recognizing the word until afterwards. I don’t recall it happening before that so many here would enter a relatively common word and not recognize it for a time. The uncommon things today that I did not previously know were the Oxford spire allusion, TARADIDDLE or ‘diddle’ as rip off, and APPRO. COD to UNDERWHELMING. Regards to all.
  16. I can see why its An(n)a but could someone please explain the last part of the clue. i’m stumped. probably very obvious.

    1. “literary gossip” is the definition – “ana” is just that, in relation to a particular person. It’s also a collection of their sayings. One of those ones that become automatic if you do enough barred-grid puzzles.
  17. 12 minutes, and a sigh of relief to find that TARADIDDLE is a word. GUANACO and CHIPOLATA from definition alone speeded things up.
  18. “Down in Boston even beans do it”. Cole Porter at his very best in “Let’s fall in love”. My favourite line is “Goldfish in the privacy of bowls do it”.
    1. Ooh yes! A brilliant lyric and there are so many versions of it, variations by CP himself and parodies by Noel Coward (with the permission of the composer).
  19. Thank you-i looked it up. a new one for me but one i shall endeavour to remember!
    thank you!
  20. I am amazed at all the fast solvers! Well done. I persisted with this puzzle and completed after 90 minutes. It taught me a host of new devices eg “half-hearted”; that there is always a new homophone technique in the air, auditorium or to be read aloud; and that whilst some clues lok plausible eg 6d GLOVE always look for another when you hit a brick wall
    1. Don’t be too impressed – some of us have been doing this every day for 25 years or more. 6D GLOVE has perfectly sound wordplay, but poke=glove is too weak. It’s not a “device” to learn, but the fact that Times xwd definitions are usually precise is just as important as the more technical stuff.

      Nice avatar!

    1. Well I guess so, but ODE defines both poke and nudge as prods. A nudge is a gentle one with the elbow, a poke is not gentle and “with the finger or a sharp object”. On the edge between OK and objectionable, I’d say. I’d be inclined to allow it because of the slang meaning of “poke”, which makes the surface reading bawdy in a way that I missed until reading the defs just now.

      Edited at 2010-01-14 08:44 am (UTC)

  22. I’m not one to gloat — and rarely have cause to — but I feel I must record that this was the very first time I achieved a clean sweep on the Times — solving every clue at first look. The attempt to do so does slow one down a bit, though. Still, all done in 11 minutes. A very straightforward puzzle.

    …Robert

    1. I think my old championship rival Tony Sever tries for a “clean sweep” – I’m guessing that your house rules are like his and allow you to choose the order in which you look at the clues. If you did the clues in printed order, that’s even better.
  23. I suspect a number of non-UK solvers may not be familiar with ‘ready’ as a term for money, or cash. I knew it, but missed it totally, and entered ‘ana’ faute de mieux. (‘ana’, by the way, is an old standard in NY Times puzzles.)
    Am I nit-picking (don’t answer that) when I say that the use in 22d of ‘examine’ as an intransitive bothered me?
    1. Probably not – Times definitions usually match the transitiveness of verbs, so I’d expect them to do so – I feel sure I’ve s told at least one commenter that their red herring answer couldn’t possibly be right because they were converting from transitive to intransitive or vice versa.

Comments are closed.