Times 24,223 – Dammit, Jim, I’m a doctor, not a lexicographer

Posted on Categories Daily Cryptic
An interesting 30 minutes. Lots of space filled in very quickly, but a dreadfully drawn-out death thanks in large part to a couple of words with checking letters that weren’t giving too much away. One of those where I was left thinking that it seemed easier than the clock says it turned out to be; which I think must be to the credit of the setter. Q0-E7-D7

Across
1 SAPPED – last one in: I spent ages thinking it must be SAD containing something, and trying to fit in a meal or a river before realising it’s the Oxford-established “modern Greats” course of P(olitics) P(hilosophy) & E(conomics). The list of graduates includes many Parliamentarians who must have missed the tutorial where they discussed the morality of fiddling your expenses. I also toyed with the possibility that it was NAPPED – (AND)* round PPE – but while an exhausted person might take a nap, napped doesn’t = exhausted.
9 REFRACTORY – REF + ACTOR in R(ailwa)Y
11 SHERLOCK – E(A)RL in SHOCK. Not sure I like the familiarity of first name only, but it’s hardly one which could cause confusion over which Sherlock was meant. I’ve always thought that if it wasn’t anachronistic, I could quite easily see Holmes devoting himself to a three-pipe Mephisto.
12 POPLAR – POP(U)LAR is a part of East London which has been popular in clues of this sort since time immemorial.
13 IBID – “I BID” (for a lot at auction) – from the Latin ibidem, meaning, quite literally, “in the same place”; generally used in footnotes and other textual references
15 NICENESS – NICENE + S(aint)S; not sure I could have named very many more creeds other than this one.
18 LONE WOLF – (FELLOWNO)* This must have been used before, but I liked it.
21 VILLON – VI + LL + ON is a very simple clue structure, possibly to compensate for the obscurity of the subject of it. Though he did write “Ou sont les neiges d’antan”…even if nobody ever knows that it was him.
26 OPEN SESAME – (POEMASSEEN)* very neat, of course, because the origin of the phrase was the 1,001 Nights, or something very similar, which involved translation in the non-crossword sense.
27 FLINDERS – L(ake) in FINDERS, who are of course, Keepers; the man without whom we might be playing for the Ashes against Terra Australis.
28 ELYTRA – rev in p(ARTYLE)ader; I didn’t know this term but deduced its existence fairly confidently once I had the Y.
 
Down
2 ALEPH – ALE + P(ublic) H(ouse): the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet, of which Beth is the second. I think it’s generally agreed that all Greek letters are fair game in The Times, but I’m not sure how many more Hebrew ones would be considered in a clue other than those two: YOD rings a bell, but I may be wrong.
4 DOCTOR – double def., to Spike a drink (does it get the capital mid-sentence because Doctor would? Fine by me), and, as short for Sawbones, an old nickname for a medical man. As one of many little asides, however, the new Star Trek film offers an alternative explanation of how Dr McCoy became known as “Bones” to Captain Kirk.
5 STOCKING FILLERS – good definition which had me convinced these pins were the “sticking” kind for a good while…
6 FLYSPECK – (SPY)* in FLECK
8 REHEARSAL – HEARS in REAL: “show trial” is another very good definition in my book.
16 NEW JERSEY – you buy a new jersey, you extend your wardrobe: I started out looking for “press”, which is a common synonym when there’s a wardrobe in the clue.
20 PARSEE – “close to tears” is excellently misleading, it’s the end of tears, of course, and thus S in PAREE. While there are lots of cultural references to “Gay Paree” from the 1920s onward, I can’t find a definitive explanation of how the phrase began.
22 LAY ON – as in “lay on” dinner and as in “Lay on, Macduff, And damn’d be him that first cries, ‘Hold, enough!'”

35 comments on “Times 24,223 – Dammit, Jim, I’m a doctor, not a lexicographer”

  1. 34 min. Made solid if unspectacular progress, then with two thirds done, came to a grinding halt. 5 dn at ??O?K??? F?B?E?S would not yield. Finally went to the solving aids without luck. Something must be wrong, so trying with each checking letter in turn at last revealed the problem. I had put BREAK OFF in 23 with great confidence, and saw no reason to question it. Oh dear! The rest fell into place quickly, even the obvious but unexplainable SAPPED in 1 Ac. Didn’t understand until coming here and do NOT like it at all. COD for me 18 Ac. Short and to the point.
  2. Early post from me, and sorry for missing yesterday, could not get to the computer. About 35 minutes, stuck on new words such as ELYTRA, and the tough (to me) SW area, where FLINDERS and VILLON are not in my everyday usage. Overall, some clever stuff, especially the long 5D with the old (I think) slang term ‘pins’ misleading me for a while. Over here they’re ‘stocking stuffers’, not ‘fillers’. Regards.
  3. Done in bits so no time, but like Ross I confidently put in BREAK OFF at 23 and only reluctantly deleted it when it became clear that neither 5dn nor 16dn were going to work.

    ELYTRA and ALEPH seem to make periodic appearances in Mephisto (ALEPH just recently).

    I remember wading through Villon’s “Testament” at university (“En trentieme an de mon age…” etc) but absolutely nothing about the work. But I do recall that in “Archy and Mehitabel”, Mehitabel takes up with a disreputable Apache of a tom-cat in Paris who turns out to be the reincarnation of Villon.

  4. 40 min. Very enjoyable. Rare to see such concise clueing. Many good clues here but I particularly liked the well hidden anagram at 5ac, 5d’s pins (also had sticking as a working hypothesis), 8d’s “show trial” definition but COD for me was FLYSPECK. Bravo to the setter.
  5. 11 minutes – plenty of good stuff to compensate for two very old chestnuts at 3 and 12. Vaguely recognised elytra, but FLYSPECK was a new word for me, and I didn’t know “lay on, Macduff” as the correct version of popular misquote “lead on, Macduff”. Escaped from the danger of BREAK OFF by way of “state (3,6)” = either NEW MEXICO or (much more often) NEW JERSEY.
  6. I’m not offering a time today as two-thirds were completed in about 25 minutes and the rest was done in dribs and drabs whilst waiting for a bus, on the bus and hanging around for Security to open my office buiding.

    I got there in the end without aids but would have needed them to explain some of the clues, 1a for example, and I didn’t really know ELYTRA or VILLON.

    Last in were DOCTOR, having finally cracked 9a and obtained the last checking letter, and PARSEE.

    A good testing puzzle but I think if I had books to hand I might have been tempted to confirm some of my guesses whilst still solving in order to reduce the options for the intersecting clues.

  7. An enjoyable 30 minutes with a collection of interesting, well crafted clues and only a couple of recurrent friends.

    Luckily I got S-FILLER quite quickly from the S of SOFTWARE and the K of SHERLOCK. APP is quite a well known abbreviation I think for the politics course. I knew ELYTRA and ALEPH from Mephisto but not the Macbeth quote nor FLYSPECK which I derived from wordplay and the F?Y checking letters.

    I particularly like LONE WOLF and OPEN SESAME

  8. You may be interested to hear how a relative beginner coped here. Suffice to say with my tentative one month subscription to Times Crossword Club due to expire 21st inst. I am having to seriously consider my position. Only half completed before coming here. There are a number of answers (and explanations) missing in the blog and I wonder if someone could help out to assist my learning:-
    Missing (with my answers/guesses or blanks)
    5ac software
    10ac echo (weird ist letter sequence?)
    19ac wall (w = with?)
    23ac leave off
    25ac I spy (why I spy?)
    3dn ?
    7dn whelp
    14dn?
    17dn round one
    24dn femur
    1. Don’t give up!  This one was very tough.

      5ac SOFTWARE: “plastic” is a slightly dubious but not uncommon anagram indicator.
      10ac ECHO: “Trace” is the definition, “call” gives HO and EC are the “heads of Eton College”.
      19ac WALL: yes, “with” abbreviates to W; Collins defines WALL as “(Mountaineering) a vertical or almost vertical smooth rock face”.
      23ac LEAVE OFF: “holiday” is LEAVE (the noun), and the definition is “Quit” (as in “Quit complaining”).
      25ac I-SPY: “One’s” gives I (Roman numeral) + ‘S, and “artless party” gives P[art]Y.
      3dn PARTRIDGE (to be read as plural, as in game birds): the definition is “Game”, “not all” gives PART, and a RIDGE is high ground.
      7dn WHELP: “wonderful at first” = W.
      14dn BIODIESEL: anagram of “beside oil”.
      17dn ROUND ONE: one’s armour should be “round [or around or about] one”.
      24dn FEMUR: FE is “iron”, RUM is “odd” (dated slang), and “flipping” indicates reversal.

      1. Extremely grateful Mark for your rapid response. I did get and understand those without brackets or ?s (the others were just missing from blog answers)but what I really needed after seeing no one referring to the difficulty level was for someone to say it was tough. I won’t give up but may lower my profile for a while.
        1. Can I suggest that now is not the time to lower your profile. We all remember being at your stage, even those like me who are defined as over the hill, and are more than willing to help you. We can’t do that if you don’t post your questions and share your experiences.
          1. Thanks Jimbo, you and the other regulars already have been a great help over the past 3 weeks. You in particular will appreciate that as a 20+ handicap golfer of some 30 years standing I am not the type to give up.
            1. Do keep going! I reckon you’ll be finishing puzzles pretty regularly within a year (that’s much quicker progress than lots of us made in our early days, but we had no bloggers to ask!). Your profile is up to you – I’m sure you’ll quite often find that by the end of lunchtime someone else asks about most of the clues that baffle you.

              1. Thanks Peter. Overwhelmed with all the encouragement. I confess I tried briefly some cryptics 35 years ago (so had a head start and the old tricks are coming back to me slowly) and have managed to complete quite a few since joining club, albeit using aids, though mainly for confirmation. So was feeling pleased with myself until completely outclassed today (your 11 minute time was the killer). On my recent retirement a friend advised cryptics for the brain and claret for the heart; now I just have to worry about haemorrhoids and gout.
                1. Speed is not necessarily the thing, it is the fun of the fight with the setter, and the satisfaction when one “wins” a clue complete with all its wordplay is what keeps me happy on slow days. Today had a lovely range of different general knowledge bits, I enjoyed it a lot even though I wasn’t quick.
  9. 14:38, with one mistake (see below).  A very nice challenge with (as kororareka says) unusually concise clueing.  I didn’t know VILLON (21ac), FLINDERS (27ac), or ELYTRA (28ac), and like Peter I only knew the popular misquotation “lead on, Macduff” (22dn LAY ON) – in my case thanks to Asimov’s short story “Runaround”.

    The last to go in was NICENIST (15ac), a wrong guess.  I couldn’t justify the second NI, but thought it must somehow be a saint.  Having seen the answer, I wish to register a complaint: what the Flinders was “This” doing there?  Pretty much the only thing that “this” can refer to in a clue is the answer.  The only exceptions I can think of are contextual references (“this country”, “this language”, “this type of clue”, “this person”), but “This creed” obviously doesn’t yield NICENE on contextual grounds.

    Clues of the Day: 9ac (REFRACTORY), 16dn (NEW JERSEY), 20dn (PARSEE).

    1. 16:03 for me. I knew NICENE creed, but had the same reservations about “This” as you. I also remembered that S = saint as well as ST, so no problems there. I knew ELYTRA, and that went in from the Y before I spotted the hidden word. I’d never heard of VILLON and was trying to justify VIRGIL for a while. FLINDERS went in from the wordplay but I’d never heard of him either.

      I’d agree with REFRACTORY as COD, one of my last to go in.

    2. I thought the “This” was superfluous at the time, but now I think it is quite correct. Nicene isn’t a creed, but a type of creed, so clueing it simply as “Creed” is incorrect. The “This” corrects the fault. I hate to invoke the name of Roger Phillips again, since I misrepresented him so badly last time I raised his commentary, but read some of his comments about JAFFA in the last clue of the month competition.
      1. To clarify, the Nicene Creed is a creed, but Nicene on its own is an adjective and not a creed.
  10. Your justification would only work if the answer were NICENE, which it isn’t.
    1. I think we learnt yesterday that the same rules apply (or don’t apply) if it’s the answer itself or part of the word play. True, nicene in “niceness” isn’t any particular part of speech, but the construction requires you to get there somehow. I can certainly think of examples where I might be a bit peeved if some qualifiaction wasn’t given. E.g. clueing ant to get fire in firenze. With so little slack in the rest of the clues I’m guessing the setter and/or editor must have had a good think about whether the “this” was required or not.
      1. For the record, I (Roger Phillips, since my name’s been invoked) am with Mark on what “this” can refer to: either the answer to the clue or something relative to the context in which the clue appears. In real life we can say, “This little piggy went to market. This little piggy stayed home,” and use our hands to show what each “this” refers to. A clue has no such pointers to different bits of the answer.

        And I wouldn’t say “this creed” defines “Nicene”, any more than “this republic” defines “banana”.

        1. I’m guilty of misrepresenting you again, then, for which I apologise. There is a problem with “creed” on its own though. So the argument is about whether “this” solves the problem, which I’m perfectly happy to concede doesn’t. But I’m wondering what, if anything, might make this type of clueing acceptable, in the same way that “for example” or “perhaps” has come to signify definition by example. Mind you, if I’m expected to get “banana” from “[insert indicator here] republic”, then it’s probably better this territory was left uncharted.
          1. I think “type of republic” = BANANA is OK though I’m half-expecting gasps of horror from somewhere – why does {“type of lion”=SEA} feel less defensible? Trouble is that unless you can add some extra subterfuge, “type of x” is a giveaway.

            Edited at 2009-05-12 03:57 pm (UTC)

        2. I also agree that the clue doesn’t quite hold water, but after some pondering I’m struggling to find a fair and elegant way of saying what needs to be said for this wordplay. Any offers?

          As the rest of the clues seem good enough to raise no objections, I think some “forgiveness of sins” is in order for a single transgression.

  11. Around 30 mins but gave up without solving “Flinders” (never heard of ‘im) and parsee, where I spotted that “close to tears in” implied the insertion of an “s” but just didn’t make other connections required. bc
  12. Too good for me! I gave up after an hour, with just under half still blank. My confident entry of SPINES for 4d no doubt contributed somewhat to the final result…
  13. A tricky puzzle in places, but an enjoyable one to solve. I enjoyed the PDM when I tumbled to DOCTOR. I didn’t think much of 17, and I agree with Mark Thakkar about the clue to NICENESS. By convention ‘This X’ at the beginning or end of a clue refers to the answer. While “This creed” could be an invitation to the solver to substitute a word (in this case NICENE) for ‘This’, I think it’s an unfair tactic.
  14. Found this pretty tough.about 25 minutes although a fair but of this was caused by inventing the word SOFTWEAR (possibly could be a NEW JERSEY).So 8 had to start with an A which was a real sticking point.
    I was also misled by ‘this’ creed. ELYTRA was a new word and I though REFRACTORY was somewhere where telescopes were kept.
    1. No, a REFRACTORY’s where monks eat. I had all but FLINDERS in 15 mins, but gave up after five fruitless minutes of staring at that one. Jokes aside, 9A (REFRACTORY) is my COD. 18A appears as ‘No fellow for mixing’ in my edition of DFM’s manual, so it’s been around for quite a while.

      Tom B.

  15. this is going to get repetitive (for me) but felt quite confident getting all bar four on the way in to work (circa 20 mins) and then looking at 21a, 27a, 22d and 17d on and off when I had a minute over the day, before getting 22 then 27 then 17 then 21 in about 30 seconds in that order on the way home. Probably about 40 mins in total.

    I even tried everybody’s kind advice on trial and error on individual letters, checking the checked letters, etc etc, but in this case I think it was just a hard slog. VILLON I never heard of so it went last as a matter of “it had to be” – had previously had VILIAR (rail backwards) VIRYDE, VIFRRY, and VIRFRY as possibilities…..

  16. @ topicaltim: Spike a drink (does it get the capital mid-sentence because Doctor would? Fine by me)

    Spike is a common name for a dog. This perhaps obvious fact wasn’t clear from your comment.

  17. Elementary question from a newbie here. Is there a website where you can find previous Times crosswords (eg last Tuesday’s)? I’d like to have a go at some of them & then refer to the discussions here.
  18. Villon’s been represented in the flicks many times: The Vagabond King (1930), Francois Villon (1945), and If I Were King (1938), when Ronald Coleman played the role. So he’s not that obscure to those of us who are over 90.

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