Sunday Times 4713 by Dean Mayer

Author   nick_the_novicePosted on Categories Weekend Cryptic
When the first three across clues all went straight in, I began to wonder if Dean was in a remarkably generous mood or (even less likely) whether I’d finally made a breakthrough to a new level of competence in my crosswording capabilities. I should have known better.

What followed was a major grapple which lasted over several sessions. I still have my doubts whether I’ve understood 10a, and I’m by no means confident that I’ve got the rest of the thing fully done and dusted from a parsing perspective.

As always with Dean, much to admire – 15 a was an absolutely superb clue, I thought, and 14a was a masterpiece of misdirection. So, thanks to our setter for a torrid but highly enjoyable challenge.

I’m currently in New York so what with time differences and commitments here, I may be a bit tardy in responding to comments so apologies for that.

Definitions underlined: DD = double definition: anagrams indicated by *(–): omitted letters indicated by {-}

Across
1 Group of ladies training to use cloth (4)
WIPE – WI (Womens’ Institute – group of ladies) + PE (training)
3 Influence friends within the media (10)
PREPOSSESS – POSSE inside (within) PRESS (media)
9 Free love shown in short film (4)
VOID – O (love) appears inside (shown in) VID{eo} (short film)
10 Great Falls location (3,7)
NEW ENGLAND – Keep thinking I must have missed some subtlety here. Assume this is just a reference to the stunning Autumn leaf colouring for which NE is famous (as opposed to a reference to Niagara falls which is NY state on the US side). But there may be more going on…
12 Cliffhanger in novel almost liberating (4-5)
NAIL BITER – *(LIBERATIN) – ‘almost liberatin{g} – with “novel” as the anagrind
14 One huge firm up for discussion (5)
TITAN – Sounds like (‘for discussion’) “tighten” (firm up). Cunning misdirection (well, it sent me scurrying down all sorts of dead ends before finally seeing the light)
15 Perhaps he gets stick for assertion (13)
PRONOUNCEMENT – PRONOUN (perhaps ‘he’) ‘gets’ CEMENT (stick). Top flight clue.
18 Product of trained mind? It was, once (7,6)
ANCIENT WISDOM – Cryptic clue based on *(MIND IT WAS ONCE) with “trained” as the anagrind.
20 Get out of a car (5)
DODGE – Neat DD
22 Fancy linen also used for items of clothing (3-2-4)
ALL IN ONES – *(LINEN ALSO) with “fancy” as the anagrind. Not too familiar with the garment in question, but I assume it’s some kind of boiler suit.
23 Bottom of flask in pocket (10)
NETHERMOST – THERMOS (flask) in NET (pocket)
25 River’s current, between banks (4)
ODER – ‘current’ gives us MODERN, and the river appears between the edges (banks). I had no idea what was going on here until the cross checkers appeared making ODER a highly likely candidate, and then there was a lot more head scratching before the light dawned. Very clever / highly devious – take your pick…
26 Nearly all nurses available to take crowd out to lunch (10)
MOONSTRUCK – MOST (nearly all) includes (‘nurses’) ON (available) + RUCK (crowd)
27 Observe — like a “feeling”? (4)
ESPY – ESP (a feeling) + Y (like – as in equivalent of “ish”). Another one where the answer was tolerably clear from definition and cross checkers but the parsing was a challenge.
Down
1 Celebrity partner carrying French wine with a flag? (6)
WAVING – WAG (celebrity partner – as in “wives and girlfriends) ‘carrying’ VIN (French wine)
2 Prince shot in attack (9)
PHILIPPIC – PHILIP (Prince) + PIC (shot – as in snapshot). Put this one in trusting to the wordplay, the word being totally unknown to me. Apparently a philippic is a kind of verbal onslaught; a rather engaging kind of word that I will endeavour to use in conversation as soon as possible
4 Whisky distillery emptied bottles (3)
RYE – distilleRY Emptied hides (bottles) the answer
5 Student in US managed to call before dinner (11)
PREPRANDIAL – PREP (student in US) + RAN (managed) + DIAL (to call). I’d heard the US term “preppie” but never come across the shorter “prep” before.
6 Moaning about tramp’s musical skill (5-7)
SIGHT READING – SIGHING (moaning) goes around (about) TREAD (tramp). Rather pleasing, surreal image conjured up by the surface.
7 Claim to be out of work (5)
EXACT – DD – the second one being somewhat cryptic (if you were previously an ‘act’ then you might currently be out of work, I suppose)
8 Is upset over mean comment (4,4)
SIDE NOTE – SI (‘IS reversed’ – upset) on top of (over) DENOTE (mean)
11 No more property let, one not properly in control, mentally (12)
OBSOLETENESS – *(LET ONE) – with “not properly” as the anagrind – ‘in’ OBSESS (control mentally). The definition (the state – property – of being no more) was sufficiently inventive to have me somewhat flummoxed for quite a while…
13 From a turret, shot fish supplier (5-6)
TROUT FARMER – *(FROM A TURRET) with “shot” as the anagrind. A gimme by the standards of this puzzle – and by the time I got to it halfway through the Downs on my first pass through, I needed all the help I could get!
16 Some union workers — that is, mostly, monsters (9)
EUMENIDES – EU MEN (some union workers) + ID ES{T} (‘that is’ mostly), giving us the Furies.
17 Approve a new, er, drug (8)
LAUDANUM – :LAUD (approve) + A + N (abbrev. new) + UM (er)
19 Lost in part of carrier (6)
ASTRAY – AS (in part of) + TRAY (carrier)
21 The same song, shortly over (5)
DITTO – DITT{Y} (song shortly) + O (abbrev. Over)
24 Urge to attack, so it appears (3)
SIC – DD, with the first apparently being an exhortation to dogs to attack. Hmm, live and learn…

17 comments on “Sunday Times 4713 by Dean Mayer”

  1. That’s been my subject heading quite often this week. Somehow, with the E M N S checkers in 16d, suddenly EUMENIDES came to me when I returned to the puzzle, without looking at the clue. And that gave me ODER, which I figured out later. But looking at 11d with all the checkers led me nowhere, and I finally got sick of looking. I wonder if anyone says, “Sic ‘im!” to their dog. Like Nick, I’d never come across PREP before. I couldn’t make anything of NEW ENGLAND, so I’m happy to accept Nick’s explication. COD to PRONOUNCEMENT, a fine example of why I love Dean’s cryptics, even when I can’t finish.
  2. Got there in the end. But I screwed up once I realized how “no more property” worked, and put in OBSOLESCENCE without paying attention to the wordplay. It took me some time to realize my error.

    I’ve certainly heard of “sic ’em” as a phrase to get dogs to attack, although not having a dog it’s not a phrase I’ve ever used myself.

    I had the same worry at 10a that I was missing something, but I think it is just a (not very) cryptic definition. Of course there is a real Great Falls but it is in Montana.

  4. Another challenging & entertaining Sunday (and sometimes early Monday) offering from Mr Mayer.

    I suppose that 10a is a sort of DD with the “Great Falls” being there – thanks to Anon above – and also it being a great place to go to see Autumn colours. My own favourite on this side of the pond is the Lower Wye Valley. I didn’t know about the waterfall so got the answer from the great place to go in the autumn.

    Thanks for explaining mODERn – I filled in the correct answer – had to be ODER- but did not see the wordplay. Nice one.

  5. Over an hour on the timer for this one. I had a lot of child-related distractions on the way through so it didn’t take me quite that long, but there’s no doubt this was a stinker. I loved it.
    I couldn’t remember where Great Falls was, but I certainly wouldn’t have put it in NEW ENGLAND. It went in with a shrug, and I discovered the waterfall mentioned by anon above from post-solve googling.
    There was some discussion on the club forum about whether RYE should be whiskey or whisky. I would have expected the former but it turns out Canadian Club (the best-known brand of RYE) is whisky.
    The one thing I’m not happy with in this puzzle is the definition at 11dn. ‘Obsolete’ doesn’t mean ‘no longer existent’, which is what the definition seems to imply. It seems to be just me though. What am I missing?
    In a great set of clues I think my favourite was the &Lit at 18ac.

    Edited at 2016-10-02 09:54 am (UTC)

    1. Well, ‘existent’ isn’t actually in the clue(!), so I think Deano can just about get away with ‘no more property’ as shorthand for ‘property of being around no more’ for obsolete’s meaning of ‘no longer produced or used’.

      Close enough not, perhaps, for a Havana but for a Cafe Creme.

      1. I have no problem reading ‘no more property’ as ‘the property of being around no more’ (or ‘no longer existent’, if you like) but that isn’t what ‘obsolete’ means. My collection of Buffy the Vampire Slayer VHS tapes is still very much around.

        Edited at 2016-10-02 08:08 pm (UTC)

        1. I think ‘being around on the shelves’ is meant. Being there no more (or indeed on the factory conveyor belt) is a kind (sub-set) of ‘no-more property’. Defensible, at any rate, I reckon.
          1. [No more property] has to be read as [the property suggested by the words ‘no more’]. If something is ‘no more’, it is no longer in existence. I don’t see how you get shelves or conveyor belts into it. And even if you could, not being present is just not the same thing as being obsolete, IMO.

            Edited at 2016-10-03 06:50 am (UTC)

              1. No, I can’t see that the concept of ‘being made’ is present, even implicitly, in the phrase ‘no more’. I only see existence.
                However I appear to be the only person who was remotely bothered by this!
  7. Enjoyable enough and completed in a few minutes over an hour. Several unknowns got from wordplay. SIC was obvious from the second definition but like others I’d never heard the “attack” thing before. Didn’t understand ESPY or ODER, and NEW ENGLAND went in without a shrug because of my lack of detailed knowledge of US geography re the exact location of Niagara Falls. When not on blogging duties it’s sometimes too tempting to bung in the obvious answer and move on.
  8. In my sixty years in the USA, I’ve only heard “prep student” or “preppy” for a student from a prep school, so I read 5d as asking for a kind of student, not a word meaning “student.” I see Oxford, though, has the definition “A student in a prep school,” tagged as “North American.” I dunno, maybe they say that in Canada.

    Edited at 2016-10-03 04:54 am (UTC)

  9. Thanks a lot, Nick. You should really remove “the novice”!
    Thank you especially for 11d, ODER and ESPY. As for 10ac, NEW ENGLAND, is that really a cryptic clue? Re ALL-IN-ONES, I have heard the term ONESY. Are they the same?
    My time is shown as 1hr 58m and some seconds but, as far as I can remember, I SWOL because I was forced to ‘cheat’ (Chambers Word Wizard) on 11d and on 23ac. After just under 2hrs my will to live was evaporating.
    Enjoy New York. On my visits, in my working days, I loved to visit the great art galleries.
  10. Great Falls location.
    Could be ‘Los Angeles’ Angel Falls, and lo for location and Los ?
    New England a bit obscure.

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