Times Quick Cryptic No 1828 by Joker

Author   rolytolyPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
I finished just outside my target time, as I dithered at the end over what vowel could best be stuck in the middle of 21d. Three ‘Unlucky!’ signs and a couple of increasingly confused guesses later, I clicked on the Check Grid option and saw I had a typo at 4d. So not fully parsed (or checked) before submission, it’s safe to say, although my initial answer was correct. And a charming little clue it turned out to be. Before all that kerfuffle I was held up at 6d, which I needed for 13ac and 20ac. A fine puzzle with a broad range of clue types and an array of good surfaces – many thanks to Joker!

Across
1 Send part for actor as an afterthought (10)
POSTSCRIPT – POST (send) SCRIPT (part for actor)
7 Failure of a person nearer losing head (5)
LOSER – cLOSER (nearer, “losing head”)
8 Pope is quiet concerning argument (7)
PONTIFF – P (piano – quiet) ON (concerning) TIFF (argument)
10 One French eleven embarrassed about power still running? (9)
UNEXPIRED – UNE (one, French) XI (eleven) RED (embarrassed) about P(ower)
12 Couple from Petworth (3)
TWO – “from” the letters of penTWOrth
13 Coordinated part of shoe (6)
INSTEP – not a double definition, as IN STEP = coordinated is two words.
15 Beetle is small vehicle with a boot at the front (6)
SCARAB – S(mall) CAR (vehicle) with A and B (Boot “at the front”)
16 Be frightened of losing female attention (3)
EAR – FEAR (be frightened of), losing F(emale)
17 Rip up root for processing as a source of scent (9)
POTPOURRI – anagram (for processing) of RIP UP ROOT
20 Returned nails highly favoured for scrap (7)
SNIPPET – SNIP (pins = nails, “returned”) PET (highly favoured)
22 A marathon in company with others (5)
ALONG – A, LONG (marathon). Along / together / in company with others.
23 Gambler reportedly intended enrichment (10)
BETTERMENT – BETTER (gambler) MENT = reportedly/sounds like MEANT (intended)

Down
1 Sheriff’s group’s attitude about James’s end (5)
POSSE – POSE (attitude) about E (jameS’s “end”). I’m glad to learn the original meaning of the term: “The population of able-bodied men above the age of fifteen in a county whom the sheriff may summon to repress a riot, pursue felons, etc.” (OED). (Short for posse comitatus, literally the possible/potential group of comites, or group of companions.)
2 Cars happen mostly to get broken up here? (9)
SCRAPHEAP – not quite an &lit clue (see 21d), as the “here” is not part of the wordplay. An anagram (to get broken up) of CARS and HAPPEn (happen, “mostly”)
3 Half-hearted meal is exceptionally good (5)
SUPER – SUPPER = meal, half-heartedly = remove one of the central letters.
4 Uniform’s needed in Royal Navy career (3)
RUN – U(niform) is needed in RN (Royal Navy). I had RRN, grr!
5 One who decorates mooring rope (7)
PAINTER – double definition, the second completely unknown to me.
6 Dull nature of film including noisy and empty scenes (10)
CLOUDINESS – CINE (of film) including LOUD (noisy), and then SS (“empty” SceneS)
9 I forgo debt in difficulties — something that may cross a line (10)
FOOTBRIDGE – anagram (in difficulties) of I FORGO DEBT. Line as in a railway line.
11 Tamper with a note to get degree (9)
DOCTORATE – DOCTOR (tamper with), A, TE (note, do-re-mi, etc., also spelt TI)
14 Disturbed islander losing large fish (7)
SARDINE – anagram (disturbed) of ISANDER (islander, “losing L(arge)”)
18 Private coach starts to travel using the orbital road (5)
TUTOR – “Starts to” Travel Using The Orbital Road
19 Kangaroos need time to sleep (5)
ROOST – ROOS (kangaroos) need T(ime)
21 Tap put another way? (3)
PAT – &lit, where the whole clue is both cryptic wordplay and a literal definition: PAT = tap, reversed or “put another way“; and a pat is a tap, put (i.e. defined) another way. Very nice!

56 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic No 1828 by Joker”

  2. 1802 with one error. Was sure I would see a pink square for PAT at 21d where POT/TOP, PIT/TIP or even PUT/TUP looked just as plausible. I still don’t really understand the clue. But pink square was for AMONG at 22a. This word actually fits the definition “in company with others” better, and I did not expect any other word to fit. I couldn’t parse MONG=marathon, but usually I have a few unparsed ones.

    Pleased to know PAINTER, not a common word. Only tough vocab today.

    Great misdirection at 23a BETTERMENT, with ‘reportedly’ playing an unexpected role. And excellent surfaces such as 1a POSTSCRIPT.

    COD 10a UNEXPIRED

    Edited at 2021-03-11 07:09 am (UTC)

  3. 8 minutes, but with 6dn not fully parsed until after I’d stopped the clock. I’d thought I had it with DIN as the noisy element, but when I looked more closely I realised it couldn’t be as it was the wrong part of speech and it left other letters unaccounted for. But then I spotted LOUD and it all fell into place.

    I also hesitated over 21dn so waited until I had both checkers and then decided it had to be PAT. INSTEP was my LOI.

    1. Never saw the &lit at 21d PAT, and having seen DIN didn’t bother to parse CLOUDINESS, 6d at all. Had meant to return to it but didn’t.
      Andyf
  4. Struggled again today. Made reasonable progress to having five left with 14m on the clock (I was stuck so I took the time to count). I joined others in struggling with CLOUDINESS which I couldn’t parse (I was a long way from ‘cine’ for ‘of film’) but also struggled with DOCTORATE, SNIPPET (because I’d bunged in ‘apt’ not PAT), ALONG (too literal with ‘marathon’ and I kept trying to accommodate ‘co’ for company) and INSTEP which I had thought was part of a foot rather than a shoe but once CLOUDINESS went in I got there via ‘insole’. All green in 21. PAINTER was easy peasy because Swallows and Amazons is the current bedtime story (they spend more time fetching milk than I’d remembered).

    Edited at 2021-03-11 07:34 am (UTC)

    1. Well it was unpasteurised in those days and wouldn’t have kept very long even if they’d thought of keeping it in the cool river water.

      Diana

  5. Slightly held up in the SE corner around DOCTORATE and AMONG although obvious afterwards. 21D went in immediately but 6D took a little working out. Cod UNEXPIRED.
  6. …. and nothing in mitigation today M’lud. I got off to a flying start but then got bogged down with 17a POTPOURRI and 23a BETTERMENT, which were so bloody obvious once they clicked. Grrrr! 13a INSTEP tripped me up, (yes, me who once worked in a shoe factory), and I dwelt far too long on 1d CLOUDINESS for my own good. All went green in 43 minutes.
    My favourite clue of the day goes to 10a UNEXPIRED, which parsed very neatly.
  7. All of the above! Couldn’t parse Cloudiness, AMONG so DNF. A few 95% confidences which were all correct. Just inside the 35 min norm at 34:40 including a break to take rubbish to the bins and noticed how windy it is.
    Thanks Joker and Roly for the insight.
  8. I found today’s very straightforward. All done in around 10 minutes with half a coffee still to finish (and 2 minutes of that was staring at the blanks for my last one in – DOCTORATE).

    As others experienced, CLOUDINESS went in before it was fully parsed. It took me a long while too to see that it was CINE for film…

    A nice start to the day with some lovely clues. Thanks Joker and Rolytoly

  9. A fairly seamless solve for me. POSTSCRIPT (COD) and all it’s offshoots went straight in, getting me off to a good start. I had a brief hold up over CLOUDINESS but once loud had replaced din in my thoughts the answer was clear and the parsing followed shortly afterwards. I finished in 8.11 with an unconfident PAT as I couldn’t really see what was going on so was relieved to see no pink squares.
    Thanks to rolytoly
  10. Cruised through all except CLOUDINESS and INSTEP in 15 minutes or so, then ground to halt on those last two. Threw in the towel after rejecting CLOUDINESS because I couldn’t parse it! I don’t think I would have got the ‘film’ -> ‘cine’ connection.

    Enjoyed the rest of the clues though, especially POSTSCRIPT and SARDINE.

    WB

  11. I started very quickly and was nearly upset by biffing scrapyard until I got pencil and paper and used my head. SCRAPHEAP then allowed me to write in INSTEP and POTPOURRI. I shared many of the comments above and failed to parse CLOUDINESS before submitting.
    Lots of penny-drop moments and some excellent clues but I was still a couple of minutes over target and came to grief with LOI ALONG having biffed among without parsing just in order to try and finish more quickly. I really should know better. More haste, less speed. My CsOD are all listed above by others. Many thanks to Joker and Roly. John M.

    Edited at 2021-03-11 09:35 am (UTC)

  12. Lovely puzzle. I do like Joker’s style, very witty.

    Apart from briefly deciding between AMONG/ALONG and PAT/PUT, held up only by two long downs, CLOUDINESS and DOCTORATE. Do/re/mi for “note” gets me every time; I only ever think A/B/C etc. I really must develop that reflex!

    FOI POSTSCRIPT, LOI DOCTORATE, COD PONTIFF, time 1.25K for a Very Good Day.

    Many thanks Joker and roly.

    Templar

  13. 62 mins with ‘cloudiness’ unparsed. Saw the SS, saw ‘din’ couldn’t figure out the rest so BIFD. Thanks for the puzzle Joker and thanks to Rolytoly for the explanation of cloudiness and the interesting info about the word ‘posse’!
    1. Oh yes, absolutely – the “posse” snippet was great. I remember as a schoolboy encountering the word “posse” in westerns and thinking what a coincidence it was that it was a Latin word! Thanks roly.
  14. Started off with RUN, SUPER and PAINTER, then POSSE which gave me 1a. Then LOSER allowed me to see where LOUD might go in 6d, and I didn’t stop to parse the rest of it. I was held up for a while with DOCTORATE and spent some time puzzling over PAT. 9:48. Thanks Joker and Roly.
  15. Finished in good time today — or I would have done if I hadn’t put AMONG for 22a without concentrating.

    Thank you very much , Joker and Roly.

    Diana

  17. 13 minutes for me with LOI ALONG having rejected Among at the last minute-could not parse it so thought again (which I don’t always do).
    Prior to that FOOTBRIDGE required laborious work.
    A poor guess of SCRAPYARD also held me up- back to the parsing mantra.
    A good puzzle with a trap or two. COD to DOCTORATE.
    David
  18. FOI loser, LOI cloudiness, not fully parsed, did not see cine or ss, just loud, so biffed the rest. Only six acrosses on first pass, but the down clues went in quickly and assisted the acrosses as they went in. Ten minutes exactly, though a technical DNF as I had among. Had (very minor) issues with a couple of clues, which is unusual for me. The AB for “a boot” seems to me to be at the back, and cars are broken up in scrapyards, they end up on heaps, not that either pedantic point was an impediment to solving. Thanks Roly and Joker. GW.
    1. It’s A + B{oot} i.e. the front of the word ‘boot’. Rather a fine surface I thought since the boot of the VW Beetle is at the front of the car.
    2. I counted “Among” rather thank “Along” as a real DNF. In my book a “technical DNF” is for typos, and for me at least, “among” was my “final answer”
  19. No idea what was going in with CLOUDINESS certain the noise was DIN. Also had TUP which held up SNIPPET and BETTERMENT. Felt a bit of a struggle but all done within target time just about so a score draw with Joker today I think

    Thanks all


  20. FOI: 10a – UNEXPIRED
    LOI: 13a – INSTEP

    Time to Complete: 80 minutes

    Clues Answered Correctly without aids: 21

    Clues Answered with Aids (3 lives): 1a, 20a, 11d

    Clues Unanswered: Nil

    Wrong Answers: Nil

    Total Correctly Answered (incl. aids): 24/24

    Aids Used: Chambers

    Even if I had not completed this one (and at one stage I did expect a DNF), I still would have enjoyed it, because the clues made me think, yet did not appear nonsensical to me. They were the type of clues that although I did not work them out quickly, I just knew that I could do so. In fact, I was quite surprised with myself with some of the answers I correctly obtained.

    1a. POSTSCRIPT – A clue I used one of my lives on and was disappointed with myself for not having been able to see it once I saw the answer.

    11d. DOCTORATE – As above, a clue I kicked myself on once I saw the answer in Chambers. Though the “note” threw me. I am familiar with the Sound of Music song but was always taught at school that it was “ti”, not “te”. I could not see anything indicating that the note was a homophone.

    10a. UNEXPIRED – My first one in and was pleased with myself for working this one out from the parts of the clue.

    23a BETTERMENT – I surprised myself by getting this one, though it was only due to the number of letters present crossing it.

    6d. CLOUDINESS – Took me forever and a day to see this one. I still was not entirely sure, but I went with my gut.

    The candy store guy now knows when I have completed the Times QC successfully.

    Edited at 2021-03-11 10:32 am (UTC)

    1. FYI alternate spellings are allowed for all the notes
      do -doh, re – ray, me – mi etc.
      Andyf
      1. Ah, I was not aware of that. Thank you for clearing that up for me. Much appreciated.
  21. but slow to finish. Could not see FOOTBRIDGE for ages along with ALONG. Also slow on SNIPPET, CLOUDINESS and BETTERMENT which made me smile as did PAINTER (used to sail) and INSTEP.

    FOI POSTSCRIPT. Classical allusion of the day SCARAB.

    Thanks, Roly, as ever.

    Edited at 2021-03-11 11:09 am (UTC)

  22. 16 minutes for me, no particular issues, except failing to parse CLOUDINESS correctly — I stopped looking after spotting DIN. Thanks both!
  23. I found this hard with such a lot of long words and rambling clues, but got there in the end with the help of checkers for CLOUDINESS & DOCTORATE. Guessed PAINTER from clue – NHO second meaning.
  24. I made hard work of this, coming in at 25 mins. Couldn’t decide whether it was me or the puzzle being trickier than I first thought – especially as I had a few issues with some of the parsing.

    As above, I also had “din” as part of the clueing for 6dn “Cloudiness”. DNK the second definition of “Painter” and initially had “Tup” for 21dn until it caused issues with 23ac. Seemed to also spend an age on 14dn “Sardine”, debated whether 2dn was “Scrapyard” and flipped between “Among” and “Along” for 22ac until I decided the latter was the only one that vaguely fit the parsing.

    FOI – 4dn “Run”
    LOI – 22ac “Along”
    COD – 6dn “Cloudiness”

    Thanks as usual.

  25. I think it’s a shame when an excellent clue like 2d (SCRAPHEAP) doesn’t get the &lit accolade. I agree it’s not a ‘true’ &lit, but I feel the convention should still be to highlight the whole clue as the definition — after all, ‘here’ on its own defines nothing and the whole clue is still literally true — then call it “semi-&lit”. That’s how CrosswordUnclued describes such clues in an article of the same name (sorry I can’t provide links as an anon, but it’s easy to find).

    In any event it was my COD.

    —AntsInPants

  26. I didn’t check before submitting (4:18) and had THREE pink squares due to typos. Rats !

    COD SNIPPET

  27. … and what was at one point looking like being a very fast time ended up an 11 minute solve as the last few took time to reveal their secrets. Some quite complex clues, I thought, and lots of scope for being misled (Among/Along, Put/Pit/Pot/Pat, Scrapheap/Scrapyard), though in every case careful attention to the parsing kept one on the correct path.

    But for me, COD to 14D Sardine, simply because it is one of the best examples of the need to “lift and separate” ever — having “large fish” in a clue for which the answer is Sardine is simply superb.

    Many thanks to Roly for the blog
    Cedric

  28. Tricky in places, so 25mins doesn’t seem too bad for Joker given that several minutes were spent failing to parse loi 6d, Cloudiness. 23ac, Betterment, was my other problem clue thanks to concentrating on the wrong end. On the other hand, no problems with 22ac Along, so I’m slightly surprised at the popularity of Among. CoD to 10ac, Unexpired. Invariant
  29. … but only just! I initially stopped my clock at 28 minutes, but (fortunately) remembered to go back and check a couple of question marks I’d made along the way. One of which was AMONG for 22a, which I still couldn’t parse (unsurprisingly), so an alphabet trawl revealed ALONG. All of this added three minutes to my time, but I’d much rather that than feeling annoyed with myself for the next couple of hours.

    Question: Is CLOUDINESS a word? Mrs Random noticed a few years ago the tendency among weather forecasters to add ‘iness’ to their nouns. Some of them also say ‘mistiness’. Why not just ‘cloud’ or ‘mist’? We’re watching to see if they start saying ‘sunniness.

    P.S. Please could someone explain ‘&lit’, an abbreviation I don’t know?

    Many thanks to rolytoly and Joker.

    1. Have a look at the Glossary – there’s a link to it at the top of the page on the right (under Links) or go directly to it clicking here: https://sites.google.com/view/tft-glossary/home.

      On CLOUDINESS, it’s in the Shorter Oxford dating from the late 16th century. MISTINESS is even older!

      Edited at 2021-03-11 12:48 pm (UTC)

    2. On the RHS of this page there is a LINKS section with a Glossary you may find helpful.
    3. Q: Is cloudiness a word? A: Yes.
      Q: Is mistiness a word? A: Yes.
      Q: Why not just say “cloud”? A: Because one might want to refer to the state not the object.
      The weather forecasters are not adding -iness to nouns, they’re adding -ness to adjectives: cloudy/cloudiness, (happy/happiness, etc.).
      1. As a Scientist, the state of a liquid was the first thing to come to mind when cloudiness emerged as the answer. I did not consider weather at first. Cloudiness is used to refer to the appearance of many liquids, not least wine.
        Like many words used in crosswords, the first thing that springs to mind is rarely the only relevant connection. John M.

        Edited at 2021-03-11 02:34 pm (UTC)

  30. I found this quite tricky and my solve was patchy starting off with 1a POST. The SCRIPT came later. I biffed PAINTER from a single definition and I also contemplated AMONG but I just couldn’t parse it. I didn’t think too much about PAT as two of the three checkers together with the definition worked. My biggest hold up was my LOI CLOUDINESS which went in semi parsed having only the LOUD and SS components. 9:41 for an OK day.

    Edited at 2021-03-11 12:39 pm (UTC)

  31. I seemed to solve this fairly steadily with no particular hold-ups and was surprised to find I had taken 22 mins. And then I had managed to fall into the AMONG/ALONG trap. Never completely parsed CLOUDINESS or UNEXPIRED (or AMONG of course). Knew the second meaning of PAINTER, possibly due to reading Swallows and Amazons more years ago than I care to remember.

    FOI – 7ac LOSER
    LOI – 20ac SNIPPET
    COD – 16ac EAR for the concise surface

    Thanks to Joker and Rolytoly

  32. We were off to a flying start but took 20 minutes to complete – partly due to biffing, incorrectly, scrapyard at 2D which meant we had to revisit…and the clock kept ticking. Also had to biff 5D as had NHO painter defined as a mooring rope.

    FOI: postscript
    LOI: snippet
    COD: postscript

    Thanks to Joker and Rolytoly.

  33. A very similar experience to others, particularly when it came to entering CLOUDINESS only semi-parsed. A liitle over target today at about 12 minutes, but not unhappy with that as I’ve been finding Joker a bit trickier recently. Indeed it took me until 12a to get started. PAT made sense when I finally twigged — no biffing there! I did raise my eyebrows at POTPOURRI as one word — I’ve always written it as two. But 15a — what a superb clue — that’s a candidate for Clue of the Week in my book 😊

    FOI Two
    LOI Doctorate
    COD Beetle

    Many thanks Joker for the fun and Roly for the most informative blog

  34. I dont understand the confusion over 21dn. Most of the alternaties suggested fit the checking letters but none the clue neither the wordplay nor the definition. Only PAT worked.

    Am I missing somthing?

    1. I initially thought of “tup” in the context of “tapping” or “butting” someone – hence “put another way” is “put” reversed.

      However – I was reading too much into it and whether you could really class tapping someone as a headbutt is probably stretching my idea of the slang a bit too far.

        1. I did know that — and part of my thinking was around the expression “tup tup” which kind of describes the tapping of rams/sheep heads together when being “playful”. Like I said, read far too much into it 😀
  35. Got very confused as to how to tackle 6D : totally missed CINE and the indicator ’empty’ though I could see the answer involved clouds somehow.

    20A my brain was tricked into thinking of a scrapheap already (2D) and didn’t consider alternate meanings.

    Enjoyed this QC very much!

  36. Found this very tricky today and for some reason entered AMONG instead of ALONG so DNF

    Never parsed cloudiness so thanks for that.

    Thx Roly and Joker

  37. Finished outside our target with one wrong, we had among for 22a. We also had apt for 21 d until spending some time sorting out 22a.
  38. An easier than usual Joker I thought. FOI 1a Postscript yielded all the down clues and gave a raring start. Familiar with painter from sailing days (much missed). A DNF as 22a Among seemed to me ‘in company with others’ but clearly not so. LOI 6d Cloudiness – I had loud + ss so it was the only word that fitted the clue. COD – liked the visual ‘vw boot at the front’ in 15a Scarab.
  39. We had this vision of them all sitting on a phone line like birds which was a bit offputting!
    Biffed 6d with a different parsing.
    Hard going but some fun clues
  40. A late solve for me as I’m now back to having to work to get paid, which is tiresome. Anyway, a most enjoyable solve. 33:34 in the end, so a little over target. NHO a mooring rope being a PAINTER but other than that, nothing to report. FOI LOSER, LOI DOCTORATE, COD 20a. Thanks Joker and Roly.
  41. I enjoyed this and finished in 22 minutes.
    But had Among early and didn’t revisit.
    FOI Postscript
    LOI Cloudiness
    COD Pat

    So DNF technically
    NHO Painter as mooring rope

    Thanks all
    John George

Comments are closed.