Times Quick Cryptic No 1808 by Alfie

84 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic No 1808 by Alfie”

1. I can’t remember if anything in particular slowed me down, but I was on the sluggish side. Meg is one of the sisters in “Little Women”. 7:20.
2. …but still ended up at 13:44 – I completely lost momentum and couldn’t get a single answer in the bottom half for the longest time. My instincts were good, but I didn’t press on when I should have.

   Crossword solvers should know the March sisters from Little Women – Jo, Amy, Beth, and Meg. They’re short enough to be very useful for setters. “Little woman meets big man – just kidding! (6)”

   1. Bethox?
      1. Joking? Zak
      2. You’re joking, aren’t you?
         1. Joking? Moi?
3. Bully beef was often cow meat and was otherwise known as Fray Bentos named after a port in Argentina. Fray Bentos corned beef was supplied to the troops in World War I. Its popularity was such that the term “Fray Bentos” was used as slang by soldiers to mean “good”.
   1. Oooh, millions of Uruguayans will be upset! The eponymous Fray Bentos is in Uruguay not Argentina. But you are right that their beef (when done properly, on a wood barbecue not tinned) is magnificent. Uruguayans insist that their beef is better than Argentina’s — and so is their wine. And having been lucky enough to travel in both countries, I would agree on both counts.

      Cedric

   2. Also the source of a sizeable typhoid outbreak in 1964 in Aberdeen which had contaminated a butcher’s meat slicing machine. More than 500 local residents affected and 3 died. A positive outcome was improved public health measures. I contracted para typhoid as a child, contracted from a hot dog bought at a travelling fair. I have never eaten another.
4. 10 minutes. When I saw Alfie was the setter I suspected there may be something hidden here and I spotted the A-G thing going on as mentioned by Roly. I couldn’t find anything else apart from noticing that in the 9-letter words intersecting in the middle of the grid we have LL balancing EE in the Down word and AI balancing AI in the Across one, but this is probably coincidental. Perhaps Alfie will drop by and enlighten us if we are all missing something more.
5. 11 Across.
   Why is FLUTTER
   SPEC ?
   1. Chambers has spec defined as ‘An informal shortening of speculation’ and a ‘flutter’ is a bet, usually on the horses.
      Brian

      Edited at 2021-02-11 08:21 am (UTC)

6. ‘Spec’ = ‘flutter’?
   ‘Nick = ‘police station’?
   ‘Bully beef’ = ‘corned beef’?
   ‘Rec’ = ‘park’?

   Given it’s a British newspaper I can’t object to the use of British slang, but when many of the clues rely on knowledge of such terms it’s a joyless slog for me. DNF.

   Ah well. Won’t stop me trying again on Monday!

   WB

   1. “Nick” is a common term for police station, particularly in London and in the South. In fact many police officers themselves refer to the police station as “The Nick”.

      “I’m going back to the Nick to complete my report.”

      1. So many people have queried flutter/SPEC it’s hard to know where to place this to be seen by most:

         SOED has:

         flutter – A small bet or speculation. slang. L19.

         I think it has already been established beyond doubt that SPEC is a valid abbreviation of speculation.

   2. Well, I’m sitting here in Connecticut, and have only been in the UK for an 8-day jaunt, but if you stick to these puzzles you will pick up the knowledge.
7. Warning: pedantry ahead. Fray Bentos is very near Argentina but it’s a rather nondescript town in Uruguay.

   Cardorojo

8. Lots of fun as usual from Alfie and, alerted by the name, I found the double letters. Some excellent clues. I enjoyed the triple definition for NICK, the &lit THIEF and the witty ASPIRE. Thanks Alfie and Rolytoly. 6:17.
9. Half accessible and half really hard — almost as if two different people had split the job. Seven on the first pass of acrosses and then a good show on the downs before standstill and struggling to the end with pen and paper out.

   Edited at 2021-02-11 08:25 am (UTC)

10. An excellent, if difficult puzzle and I was happy to finish in 30 minutes, ten over my target. My main hold-ups were the anagrams, and as usual the clever bits on the grid passed me by.
    UK ‘Corned beef’ is totally different to US ‘corned beef’, which is known as ‘salt beef’ over here.
    Thanks to Alfie for an enjoyable puzzle and to Rolytoly for the explanations.
    Brian
11. 13:08, with LOI ASPIRE, which also is my COD.

    I did not really see the Triple Def of NICK, but was a bit wary of NICE (=appropriate). BLAZE was another late one, with C=Club look very tempting, the “close to” device is something I always miss.

    NHO Queen for Adult Cat

    9A BULLY BEEF didn’t really work for me, does “This is certianly”=BULLY, as in “bully for you”? Not sure about Bully=Cow, they don’t seem synonymous to me. Open to persuasion.

    1. I saw it simply in terms of someone who is bullied being cowed. John

       Edited at 2021-02-11 08:52 am (UTC)

    2. Queens and Toms — male and female cats.
12. … as the NW and SE corners were almost write-ins but the NE and SW slowed me up considerably, for a 13 minute solve in the end. At least that cements my membership of the newly christened MCC, which is pleasing given that I’m unlikely to ever get into the other MCC, not having been put down for it 20 years before I was born.

    Not entirely sure why the NE and SW slowed me down so much, though my LOI 16D Kitten was not a meaning of Queen that I knew. Otherwise all parsed, though I only spotted the alphabet Nina after completing the puzzle so it was not the aid it might have otherwise been for me.

    Many thanks to Roly for the blog
    Cedric

13. An excellent, if quirky, puzzle. As others found, the top half went in very quickly but the bottom half was pretty hard. It needed more lateral thinking than usual, I thought, even though all was fair, in retrospect. I was very pleased to be only a few seconds over my target today and only a few more seconds over 2K which makes a change. I hesitated over NICK until the penny dropped and nho Queen as a mature female cat. I think NUTMEG was my COD. All the double letter stuff passed me by completely. Thanks to Alfie and Roly. John M.

    Edited at 2021-02-11 08:54 am (UTC)

14. Hopped about like a scalded cat (no offence intended to animal lovers) before giving up the ghost (no offence intended to paranormal devotees) at 17D and totally missed the direction, desperately determined to put in a P and failed to think of Eden. Definitely will remember in future.
    Thanks Rolly and Alfie for a puzzle that was enjoyed both during and after.
15. No real hold ups today, although I never fully understood what was going on with either SPEC or BULLY BEEF and I waited until I had all the checkers before writing in the latter. The queen/cat thing is something I’ve only learnt since starting cryptics and it finally seems to be lodging in the memory banks which helped with LOI Kitten. Finished in 9.24, completely oblivious to any theme (as usual).
    Thanks to Roly and Alfie
16. Half done today, with some clues I’d never have worked out.

    I don’t suppose I’d remember the answers to some of them in future either, this was definitely on the very difficult range for me — KITTEN, RECEDE.

    I thought NICK very clever.

    Diana

17. An interrupted half hour. I had to keep dipping in and out while setting the kids up for live lessons this morning, and maybe that didn’t help, but I was definitely nowhere near Alfie’s wavelength either for some reason.

    Enjoyed ASPIRE and SUBHUMAN.

    Two minor quibbles, similar to others:

    – The clue for SPEC is pretty tenuous isn’t it? (Spec>Speculation>Gamble>Flutter) But I suppose it was easy enough to solve so I shouldn’t complain.

    – I’m not sure the clue for BULLY BEEF quite works either, though again I got the right answer so it must work on some level.

    Hopefully back on the right wavelength tomorrow. Thanks Alfie and Roly.

18. When I saw Alfie as the setter, I thought there might be something hidden but that awareness was of no help; I was looking for a pangram in the end when I got stuck.
    FOI was MINICAB and then I made good progress but got stuck on ELSE, RECEDE and LOI NUTMEG where I nearly went for NUTTER. I must have spent 6/7 minutes on my last three; time was 18:18.
    Knew BULLY BEEF but could not see how the cryptic worked. Lots of clever stuff in here. My favourite was NICK.
    David
19. I have to count this as a DNF after staring at a mostly blank bottom half of the grid as I passed my target time of 15 minutes. I finally biffed AIR RIFLE, which opened up some of the virgin territory, but just couldn’t see INTERNEE until I resorted to an aid, hence DNF. For the last 10 minutes working in the south, it felt like wrangling every answer was like pulling teeth! Definitely missed the MCC today, and joined the SCC. Glad it was you blogging Roly, and not me! I did see the double letter theme in the acrosses though.
    1. If you use an aid you count it as a DNF?

       I am a bit more lenient with myself on this, in that I allow myself 3 “lives” to use an aid to count towards completion.

       One day, when I am better at the QC, I will try my best not to resort to using aids.

       1. You’ve asked this before and the more experienced here generally have said it’s a DNF. At least a ‘technical DNF’. I see no reason why you shouldn’t give yourself 3 lives, as you put it, as you still feel you are learning the craft/trade. Several contributors will admit to using aids (I might do so too if I need verification, or maybe inspiration) without conceding it a DNF. I think it depends on how purist you want to be. If I had used a spelling aid yesterday I might have found Nun where I had too promptly entered Eve and so stymied myself… Just enjoy the ride!
20. Not on wavelength at all. I had no idea what was going on with BULLY BEEF and I didn’t understand SPEC = flutter or NICK = form. I wasn’t pleased with having two names at 1a and 1d even though the first was easy to spot. My LOI was SUBHUMAN where I was trying to juggle the letters of below us and u. Eventually I realized that I was missing an a and looked at the other end of the clue. Certainly not my finest solve and well outside my target in 16 minutes.

21. FOI: 1a HELENA
    LOI: 13d AIR RIFLE

    Time to Complete: DNF

    Clues Answered Correctly without aids: 15

    Clues Answered with Aids (3 lives): 3 (18a, 23a, 13d)

    Clues Unanswered: 8 (20a, 22a, 24a, 25a, 16d, 17d, 19d, 21d)

    Wrong Answers: Nil

    Total Correctly Answered (incl. aids): 18/26

    Aids Used: Chambers

    Started off very well, completing the NW corner within a few minutes. Then as time progressed I managed to complete north of the equator, so to speak.

    21d – FAIR. This is one of the clues I was not able to answer. Looking at the answer and explanation here, I can see that FORTE is in Chambers under LOUD. However, how on earth was I expected to know to take the first letter only from FORTE? I cannot see any indicator in the clue for doing this. Sometimes it seems to me that the setter will use a word and expect you to know to take only the first letter from it. So I looked up FORTE itself in Chambers, and that does indeed show “F” as being an accepted abbreviation. My question is, can a setter use any word they desire and expect me to know to take the first letter only (without an indicator of such)? Is it a cop out on the setter’s behalf that they cannot think of a suitable clue for that word, and so just expect me to take the first letter?

    11a – SPEC. I cannot see how Spec = flutter. It appears neither in Bradford’s or Chambers. Yes, I see that the clue contained the word eyelashes, which can be fluttered. But the definition in this clue is FLUTTER. How does SPEC relate to flutter?

    So, a DNF for me. Some clues had me perplexed in that I had no idea what the setter was trying to put across. However, it was an enjoyable one, and the first of Alfie’s that I have attempted.

    1. Common musical notation. F = loud. FF = Very loud
       P= quiet PP = very quiet
       1. Ah, I was not aware of that. If my 13-year-old nephew was here he’d probably have pointed that out to me. He’s extremely gifted musically.

          Thanks for the helpful information!

    2. Hi poison_wyvern

       I’m afraid it just helps if you happen to have at least a little experience in all the areas that commonly come up in crosswords. As the anonymous contributor said, F and P are abbreviations used on musical scores (although they are written lower case). Have a look through some sheet music some time and you will probably see them. But if you have done even a little bit of Music in your time (as I have) then they are already part of your vocabulary without having to learn them.

       For me it’s the same thing with the chemical elements. I studied Chemistry so chemical symbols come naturally to me. I also studied Law, so legal terminology is also second nature (although every now and then a Latin tag still comes up that I haven’t heard of`). Also Cricket. That comes up a lot and even though I only had slight involvement with it at school I have off and on been an enthusiastic spectator when time has allowed.

       But whenever birds or plants come up my knowledge is very scant indeed although I do find that doing crosswords has been very educational in those fields. I certainly know a lot more horticulture and ornithology now than when I first started!

       So look at crosswords as a general education as well as a pastime. You now know something about Music that you didn’t know before!

       Don

22. Mainly straightforward, but a couple of harder ones (SPEC, CLOUTING, RECEDE) and I did not know KITTEN = Cat, so DNF.
23. Hopped about all over the place, never getting a rhythm. It was a couple of clues in the SE that took the longest. RECEDE and FEATURE. I had REC??E, and just could not think of the required “garden”, and a biff would not come to mind. Brain glue I think, as it’s pretty obvious when it’s spelled out! Then got FEATURE with the final E.

    Nothing wrong with the puzzle – wavelength and a dysfunctional brain. Missed the alphabetical trickery, but then I always do.

    Liked THIEF and NICK, both very neat.

    11:59.

24. I found this really tricky today and not sure why.

    Having seen ‘close to’ in 10A and 5D I will now remember it as an indicator that until now I’d missed.

    With several clues I didn’t know where to start and really had to unpick the definition. eg. In 15D I thought ‘Perhaps stop’ indicated a word meaning stop, so got thrown off.

    Clues like 13A AIR RIFLE and 18A INTERNEE I find particularly hard as they involve 2 synonyms.

    Having had cats all my life I nevertheless had to look up what a Queen cat is.

    Thank you for the explanations, as ever.

    1. Yes. Before doing crosswords I had heard of a Tom cat. It is only since doing crosswords that I know of a Queen cat.
       1. I have heard of a cat being called a queen, but I always thought it referred to a pregnant cat.
          1. Well, not being terribly into cats (more off a dog person) I had never looked into it. But the dictionary simply seems to say “an adult female cat”.
             1. And then there is of course the saying “a cat may look at a queen”, which I have often thought might form the basis of some sort of reasonable self-referential crossword clue.
             2. I don’t have to worry about my cat being pregnant; it’s a Tom.

                I am the opposite to you. I love cats, but I really do not like dogs at all.

25. Definitely not on the right wavelength today, with annoyingly 16dn staring at me after 30 mins. After exhausting my repertoire of monarchs and beehive possibilities I had to concede defeat. Have to admit, never knew an adult cat was called a queen so can’t really complain.

    Like many above I thought the NW corner at least went in fairly quickly. But then I got bogged down, not helped by putting “Belly Pork” in for 9dn, a dish which I hasten to add made me vomit as a child. Liked 5dn “Subhuman”, 3dn “Nick”, 18ac “Internee” and 12ac “Clouting” (another spot for “on vacation”)

    Interestingly, I initially dismissed the hidden word for 1ac thinking there wasn’t enough letters for “Helen”. Duh!

    FOI — 1ac “Helena”
    LOI — dnf (16dn)
    COD — 4ac “Aspire” — been on before, but I do like it and it always catches me out.

    Thanks as usual.

    Edited at 2021-02-11 12:00 pm (UTC)

26. After Roly alerted me to the theme, I went back and had a look. I spotted the RHS of the grid starting with A to G, but failed to see that the LHS had the same endings. Other than that an uneventful solve,starting with HELENA and finishing with AIR RIFLE. Liked THIEF. 8:58. Thanks Alfie and Roly.
    1. If you consider the phrase “this grieves/upsets me, I think it works, as the wordplay yields/becomes grieve/upset. Works for me anyway.
       1. Sorry to be pedantic, but :

          Grieves/upsets may work.

          Grieve/upset does not work for me.

          1. Did the puzzle grieve you?
27. Found this very tough and thought there were far to many anagrams to make this a decent puzzle. So I disagree with the blogger that this was a nice puzzle for that reason. But as usual appreciate the bog as it certainly helps us learners

    1. The bog definitely helps 😉
28. After yesterday’s mile-stone (😉) event, it was interesting to read through today’s comments. I find myself definitely in the ‘that was hard’ camp. After about 30mins I was running out of steam with four left — Kitten, Recede, Blaze and Aspire. Knowing the symptoms, I stopped for a cup of tea and returned and managed to solve all four in that order. Recede was tough for a QC, but I should have spotted the other three first time round. A good, testing challenge from Alfie, with CoD by a ‘country’ mile to 20ac, Else, Invariant
29. After staring at ELSE and RECEDE (LOI) for ages the penny finally dropped. Was quite pleased to parse the latter. But I forgot to go back and check on 3d where I had biffed Nice. NICK now seems obvious.
    I also admit I consulted CCD for BLAZE as I was stuck in NE corner.
    So having been feeling a little smug about my improving skills (as I saw them) I was brought back to earth by this tricky puzzle – Super Slowcoach Club today.
    Was pleased to get KITTEN though. SPEC was there in the parsing but gave me pause for thought.
    Have been crosswording on and off this am, so I can hardly remember my FOsI but they FEATUREd HELENA, LINSEED, DAIRYMAID, INTERNEE.

    Thanks, as ever, Roly.

30. Strewth, this was hard work. Massive DNF with half a dozen or so left when I gave up, having no real incentive to carry on – I was struggling to parse a good few of the ones that I could biff. Didn’t enjoy it at all, I’m afraid.
31. FOI Helena, LOI clouting, needed all the checkers to see it. Twenty minutes or so for all but the NE corner, where I only had Iraqi, and was otherwise utterly stumped. Put it down for a couple of hours — this weird action seems to allow the brain to work on the clues without my involvement — devious. Went back to the puzzle and had an aha! moment with aspire, and a chuckle. The rest followed without further difficulty. COD — Aspire. Very much the sort of puzzle I enjoy — coming to a full stop, then going beyond — I find that most enjoyable. Saw minicab early on as it has been in a puzzle recently. I never see Ninas — don’t really know what they are, though I am sure I looked it up once. Following the blog, I guess I could start to look for them, they seem to add to the intrigue. The paper was late arriving today, which was just as well as I had my first Covid jab at 8.30 this morning. So this mindgame took my mind off my sore arm for a bit. Thanks Roly and Alfie. GW.
32. ….KITTEN (Beatrix Potter) — Tom would, alas, never be queen, so 16D doesn’t work for me. The addition of “possible” before “future” would fix it. There were a couple of other minor issues already referred to, but they didn’t greatly alarm me.

    Did I spot the NINA ? Does this face look bovvered ?

    FOI HELENA
    LOI RECEDE
    COD DELOUSE
    TIME 3:45

33. Batch baking macadamia and white chocolate cookies and QC solving do not go well together! After numerous interruptions I have no idea as to our time although I’m sure it was longer than usual because we found bits of this QC to be quite tough (unlike Mrs Peel’s cookies!). However, we enjoyed Alfie’s challenge – thank you.

    FOI: Helena
    LOI: recede
    COD: clouting

    Thanks for the blog Rolytoly.

34. Posting a bit later today as I’ve been out for a lovely walk in the sunshine, enjoying the snowy views before it melts. New print cartridges arrived last night so back on paper – definitely my preferred format!

    As soon as I saw Alfie’s name, like others, I girded my loins for a challenge, so was surprised when the first half went in quickly. But inevitably I slowed down so was happy to finish just a bit below my average time. I looked for the nina and saw a mix of double letters here and there, but still didn’t see the whole thing – foiled again!

    FOI Helena
    LOI Else – even though I saw EL for some reason the SE part escaped me for too long
    COD Thief – a super &lit
    Time 14 minutes

    Thanks Alfie and Roly, especially for working out the nina

    1. There’s something about doing the crossword on paper. Maybe it’s the ability to muck about with anagrams or being able to stick a pen in your mouth when thinking about something, but it never feels the same doing it digitally.

       By the way, I put printer cartridges in with razor blades as consumables that are just unfathomably expensive and always run out at the most inconvenient time.

       1. There was a comment the other day that they contain the most expensive liquid known to man. I switched to a B&W laser a few years ago, and must have saved a small fortune by now.
          1. Must have missed that – but yes, I often wonder whether the ink is infused with gold leaf or something.
             1. I always buy non-original ink cartridges (at a fraction of the price of the ‘authentic’ inks from the manufacturers). I have never had a problem. I just search for the appropriate cartridges and go for a reputable provider.
                1. Agreed – but even they’re still fairly expensive at an absolute level.
                   1. I do agree. Its just that I know people who only buy the ‘genuine’ cartridges.
                      I find myself using a printer less and less. Reasons — cost and what to do with all the ruddy paper that builds up over the years…..
                      1. I guess it’s like people who only buy branded products when a supermarket own label is often very similar (if not the same). But I suppose that’s another story.
                2. As a matter of fact, that’s exactly what we’ve done this time as the branded one seems to be completely unavailable 😕 So far, so good 👍
35. Glad to see others found this tricky as it took me a full 20 minutes. Really enjoyable though and the time must have flown by as I was surprised to find it had taken 20 minutes when I looked at the clock. NHO an adult female cat being a queen, so kitten was only half parsed. I was also held up towards the end by having entered 22ac as theif, which clearly made 19dn impossible until I noticed the error.

    FOI – 1ac HELENA
    LOI – 19dn TWIST
    COD – 10ac BLAZE

    Thanks to Alfie and Rolytoly

36. Over 30 minutes today, as I was held up with nutmeg, grieve and kitten. Nutmeg and grieve shouldn’t have caused so much bother, but I didn’t know about kittens and queens ( as opposed to cats and kings of course).
37. ‘On spec’ is a common usage. Meaning ‘as a gamble’. So that’s OK then!
38. On the tougher side today I thought, especially the bottom half. Indeed, I did wonder at points if I was going to be able to finish at all, but thankfully the missing pieces came to me eventually. Ended with RECEDE on 43:54. COD to THIEF. Thanks Alfie and Rolytoly.
39. It took me ages to get on the right wavelength and coming back to it at different times got me there in the end. I needed my Crossword-Genie app to solve nutmeg and kitten as Meg was the one little woman I had forgotten and DNK Queen cat.
    FOI Helena
    LOI kitten
    COD thief and I really liked aspire.
    Thank you Alfie for a satisfying challenge and Roly for the explanations.
    Blue Stocking
40. I must have been on the right wavelength today. A full 10 minutes faster than yesterday. 13 minutes for a very enjoyable solve, made even more enjoyable when I came here and found the general view that it had been a tricky one. Lots of the same issues as everyone else but I must have just trusted the wordplay or biffed on through. I liked ASPIRE BLAZE and NUTMEG
41. I nearly always multitask (tv cricket, food etc) so delighted with 20 mins which I have achieved the last 2 days. Today was different. For once I didn’t give up after 30 as not much else to do so got there in about 90 Absolutely delighted as I thought this was horrendous in places and fully expected loads of negative comments. I do hope newbies will plough on.
    The problem with crosswords is that you never know what you will get unlike golf where you can look at the scorecard before you start. Today was like Royal Lytham with a gentle par 3 to start and then big problems. Indebted to you all. Johnny

42. I struggled today, definitely over 30 mins after the relative success of previous days. I didn’t have a problem with kitten or aspire, but found recede, bully beef, subhuman and clouting all a challenge.

    Must remember on vacation as just couldn’t see how the clue was put together.

43. First dnf for a while
    Found it hard going all over
44. Some years ago we bought a “spec” house in America. I learned at the time that the US “spec” term referred to the builder speculating that he would build and sell it to his design rather than my expectation that we could define or influence the specification.
45. After a groan to see Alfie was the setter (I always find his puzzles a little obtuse) got stuck in and found a diagonal from NW to SE and completed pretty well most of the W of that except for 16d Kitten (NHO adult F cat, but wordplay was clear) and 24a Nutmeg (not familiar with Little Women, but again the wordplay was clear). That left me to struggle with the rest…eventually found 4a Aspire (a bit of a Christmas cracker clue I thought), and 25a Grieve, and just forced my way through. Pleased to have finished! The AA – GG went over my head. It was a bit late to look for a panagram when 10a Blaze appeared. On re-examination this wasn’t as obtuse as I anticipated but still hard-going.. Thanks to RolyToly for a very helpful blog tidying things up for me.
46. Steady rather than fast, but no serious problems. ELSE kept me thinking for a while as did GRIEVE, and all enjoyed. I thought SPEC was a common word /expression so surprised it caused some issues, just shows how vocabulary varies. Thanks Alfie for a nicely balanced puzzle.
47. So dnf just recede to get…
    Lots to enjoy but tricky stuff. I had five left after 18 minutes and just the one left when I stopped at 25 minutes.
    Thanks all
    John George
48. Roly, in your blog, the underlined word in 12ac should be “Hitting” I think.
49. I remember Carmela Soprano was building a spec house. It was a new use of “spec” to me but the meaning was clear after a little thought.
50. Enjoyed this but definitely on the tougher side. Maybe just my slow brain today.
    Loved 4A – my COD. I’ve got a feeling this has come up before in a similar form.
    Cheers,
    Wood

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