Times Quick Cryptic No 1112 by Orpheus

Author   plusjeremyPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic

I zipped through most of this puzzle in about 10 minutes, but then, by gum, the trouble begun!  The lower-right corner got me.  I used my phone to look up synonyms for ‘tramp’, then looked up my guess for the high-ranking Indian woman, and with that I managed to fall over the finish line.

Hard to know exactly what to say about this puzzle.  It was surely challenging, but then again I wasn’t expecting dated abbreviations and archaic (!) definitions in my Quickie.  I’m interested to see how the rest of y’all fared.

Across

8 Group of soldiers also involved in scheme (7)
PLATOON – TOO (“also”) in (“involved in”) PLAN (“scheme”)
9 Fellow going west with a visitor from Mars? (5)
ALIEN – NEIL (“fellow”) reversed (“going west”) next to (“with”) A (“a”)
Mr Armstrong, perhaps?
10 Some extra illuminated track (5)
TRAIL – letters in (“some”) EXTRA ILLUMINATED
11 Stylish English support worker (7)
ELEGANT – E (“English”) + LEG (“support”) + ANT (“worker”)
12 Practise greater economy? [That’s] pathetic! (7)
USELESS – USE LESS (“practise greater economy”)
14 The same longing [to be] senior member (5)
DOYEN – DO. (“the same”, abbreviation for ‘ditto’) + YEN (“longing”)
Oxford lists this abbreviation as dated.
15 Doomed person — one imprisoned by King George (5)
GONER – ONE (“one”) in (“imprisoned by”) G.R. (“King George”)
17 Shorten a game (7)
ABRIDGE – A (“a”) + BRIDGE (“game”)
19 Requirement of writer returning college flat? (7)
NOTEPAD – reversing (“returning”) ETON (“college”) + PAD (“flat”)
20 High-ranking Indian woman for example feeding tramp (5)
BEGUM – E.G. (“for example”) in (“feeding”) BUM (“tramp”)
Begum is the female equivalent of a bey.
22 Eg caterpillar right in middle of volcanic discharge (5)
LARVA – R (“right”) in (“in middle of”) LAVA (“volcanic discharge”)
23 Where the unsuccessful get, currently in this place? (7)
NOWHERE – NOW (“currently”) + HERE (“in this place”)

Down

1 See way to cross Italian river (4)
SPOT – ST. (“way”) around (“to cross”) PO (“Italian river”)
Didn’t get this one until writing the blog.  I looked up a list of Italian rivers and discovered to my great embarrassment that Po River is not in China.  Geography was never my strong suit…
2 Friend took food, [having] sense of taste (6)
PALATE – PAL (“friend”) + ATE (“took food”)
3 Not very warm? That’s great! (4)
COOL – double definition, the second ejaculatory
4 Perception subject to status (13)
UNDERSTANDING – UNDER (“subject to”) + STANDING (“status”)
As in, ‘under my jurisdiction’.
5 Schedule of events, clear and organised (8)
CALENDAR – CLEAR AND (“clear and”) anagrammed (“organised”)
6 Fat girl[’s] illegal involvement in two unions? (6)
BIGAMY – BIG (“fat”) + AMY (“girl”)
I laughed out loud when the penny dropped!
7 Popular golfer’s position, [for] example (8)
INSTANCE – IN (“popular”) + STANCE (“golfer’s position”)
Sneaky wordplay here!  But, if I may gently critique, in my opinion ‘for example’ is being made to serve double duty, since a stance is not exclusively a golfer’s position.
12 University quietly restraining resistance as a top priority (8)
URGENTLY – U (“university”) + GENTLY (“quietly”) around (“restraining”) R (“resistance”, from physics)
13 Native of Continent — a pure one, surprisingly (8)
EUROPEAN – A PURE ONE (“a pure one”) anagrammed (“surprisingly”)
16 Old sailor housed by New York official (6)
NOTARY – O (“old”) + TAR (“sailor”) in (“housed by”) NY (“New York”)
18 One who appreciates person employed in excavation (6)
DIGGER – double definition, the first comical (as in, “I dig that!”)
20 Black bird [in] vessel (4)
BOWL – B (“black”, pencil hardness abbreviation) + OWL (“bird”)
21 Get together? It was proper once (4)
MEET – double definition, the second archaic.

32 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic No 1112 by Orpheus”

  1. DO and MEET, and maybe BEGUM, are stretching things a bit for a QC, but then, as has been repeatedly noted here, there should be some clues that approach the 15x15s. URGENTLY was my LOI, because for some reason I was looking for an I (current) rather than an R; also looking for a P (‘quietly’). Remember the PO, Jeremy; you’ll see it again. I don’t see a problem with 7d; a stance is a golfer’s position. I didn’t realize that BEGUM meant a high-ranking woman; I thought (correctly, evidently) that it was the equivalent of ‘Mrs.’ 5:37.
    1. A stance is perhaps a golfer’s position, so wouldn’t a question mark or ‘for example’ be required, strictly speaking?

      Anyway, I love the idea of QC having clues approaching the 15x15s, but I’d rather have that happen through wordplay than through archaisms. One man’s opinion.

      I see, “A Muslim woman of high rank.”.

      1. Sorry, I meant to say “I didn’t realize that BEGUM ALSO meant …”
        I agree with you about archaisms; at least I’d rather see tougher wordplay (and GK) than archaisms.
  2. Nice puzzle, 24 minutes with a long time spent on urgently and LOI bigamy.

    Dnk:
    begum, but wordplay was clear.
    DO = ditto.
    meet = proper

    Couldn’t see why digger was one who appreciates, obvious now.
    Thanks setter and Jeremy for the blog.

    COD Bigamy.

  3. 9 minutes. I have no problems with ‘do’ as an abbreviation for ‘ditto’ but then I’m bordering on the archaic myself! Anyway, perhaps the setter was relying Chambers which doesn’t classify it as such.

    It’s a sign of the times that ‘meet’ in the sense of ‘proper’ is now also officially archaic as at one time it would have been known to all users of the Book of Common Prayer where it appears twice in the Order of Holy Communion – the first time in a response spoken by the congregation: It is meet and right so to do.

    Edited at 2018-06-13 06:10 am (UTC)

  4. Thought this was going to be a doddle then, like Jeremy and others, came to a juddering halt under 2 Kevins. Finally finished in twice that time after correctly biffing a few. Doyen slowed me down and Bigamy was my killer. A fascinating mix of clues.
  5. We all seem to have had a similar experience of “mostly fast, but then slow” – but the slow bits have happened all over the grid! For me it was the NE – BIGAMY, DOYEN and finally INSTANCE took up at least a third of my time (just over two Kevins so well within target today 👍🏻). Was completely misled by the “golfer”, was looking for something specific to golf.

    I was only able to parse “do” as “ditto” from a childhood memory of reading a James Herriot book in which a Yorkshire farmer complained to the vet that he hadn’t ordered “all them do, do, do’s” shown on his bill – I had to ask my mother what it meant!

    Fun puzzle and very clear blog, thanks Jeremy.

    Templar

  6. Like Templar, I remembered do-do’s from Herriot. Happy memories! I spent a stupid amount of time on USELESS/URGENCY (felt sure there’d be a P in there somewhere). LOI BIGAMY – made me laugh, too. I quite like the archaisms (?); they all add to the richness of the language. No problem with MEET, whereas UNDERSTANDING baffled me, so thanks Jeremy for parsing it. Going to have a look at the 15×15 after my almost-triumph yesterday…
  7. I zoomed through the NW then came to a pause until Big Amy got me going again. BEGUM constructed from wp but it rang a faint bell. Once I saw UNDERSTANDING, the rest flew in too. 5:57, so close to a PB. Thanks Orpheus and Jeremy.
  8. Just under 6 minutes. I’ve only recently taken up the Quickie, being time rich and mobility rubbish, and I’m curious to know whether others who do both this and Big Brother (a swine, today) warm up with it or treat it as a gentle restorative after the main course.
    BIG AMY was my laugh of the day, though I suspect it’s old (might be Milligan, Templar, though I can’t find it) and quite possibly no longer sayable in polite company.
    Thanks PJ for a rich commentary – keep it up!

    Edited at 2018-06-13 09:45 am (UTC)

  9. I completed the left side of the QC very quickly but then struggled with 20ac BEGUM (unknown, but went with wordplay) 6dn BIGAMY and LOI 14ac DOYEN. 14:44

    Edited at 2018-06-13 10:21 am (UTC)

  10. I’m a warmer-upper. Not that my 5 minutes on this helped remotely with the decidedly chewy main course.
  11. For what it’s worth, I have a regular routine of Concise, Quickie, and the biggie (which I gave up on today). BIGAMY surprised me, mainly since I wouldn’t equate big and fat; Junoesque women like Margaret Dumont are hardly fatties.
  12. Did anyone else think of THRONES for this? Very far-fetched and it doesn’t quite work I think, but they’re anagrams of each other and for a silly moment I thought it was a roundabout thing which referred to Game of Thrones and was using ‘Game’ as a sort of backward anagram indicator. I even wrote it in but had so many doubts about it that it was quickly changed.
    1. Wow! Good spot! With a bit of tweaking, that might just work. Needs a proper anagram indicator and may be an “of…”
  13. Found this about average. I tend to associate STANCE with batsmen more than golfers.. BIG AMY made me chuckle. But COD goes to MEET (neat clue).
    PlayUpPompey
  14. About 30 mins, with a chunk of that spent on loi 4d, thanks to that well known writer’s aid, the notepen, at 19ac. I thought Begum, Doyen and Nowhere were on the tricky side, but, as Jackkt predicted, Meet was a write-in for anyone familiar with the BCP. Invariant
  15. I thought there was some excellent stuff in this QC. Satisfying surfaces and clever amusing clues: I Liked 11a and 7d amongst others.
    I was slow to start -FOI was 22a and then 13d but then I made decent progress until the SE where I finished with two question marks- Begum and Meet. Both seemed OK from the cryptic and proved to be correct.
    As someone who has spent a lot of time on golf instruction (without much effect), stance is absolutely the right word. As it is in cricket when the batsman takes his stance.
    A bit over 20 minutes today. Thanks to setter and also to Jeremy for interesting blog. David
    1. That was just my point: if the clue is more specific than the answer, that’s when we usually add “for example”. Oh well.
      1. A pup is a baby dog, or fox, or seal, inter alia. Would you ask for a “for example” if the clue read “baby seal”?
        1. I’m no expert on the subtleties here. ‘Flower’ can be a clue for ROSE, and ‘Rose, for example’ can be a clue for FLOWER. ‘Rose’ is not a valid clue for FLOWER. (At least not in my understanding.)

          I don’t know that I would require ‘Baby seal, for example’, but I would accept it. Rose is one of several kinds of flower, but is baby seal is one of several kinds of pup? Maybe. if you see ‘pup’ as having several definitions (‘baby seal’, ‘baby dog’, etc), then you wouldn’t need ‘for example’. If you understand the word to mean, ‘a young animal’, then you do want the ‘for example’.

          If you understand ‘stance’ to mean a physical position adopted in a sport, I do think ‘golfer’s position, for example’ sounds better.

          I’m happy to be enlightened here!

  16. I had a similar experience to many others by the sound of it, getting through the majority of this fairly quickly and then getting completely stuck on my last 2 – begum and meet. Finally worked out a three letter synonym for tramp and managed to finish it off in 16.12. I hadn’t heard of either of the anachronisms so 14 and 21 were unparsed – thanks for clearing those up plusjeremy.
    A good workout in the end
  17. I’m the same as Kevin. Start with the Concise, move on to the QC and then do the 15×15.
  18. Enjoyed this hugely but Doyen foxed me. I didn’t know “do” for “ditto”. I do now!
  19. DNF with some clues I would never have got. Jeremy- thx for your wise words. But if I can be a pedant it’s long suit not strong suit. I believe it comes from Bridge which of course featured in today’s QC. Eg. I am long in Spades. John
  20. DNF with some clues I would never have got. Jeremy- thx for your wise words. But if I can be a pedant it’s long suit not strong suit. I believe it comes from Bridge which of course featured in today’s QC. Eg. I am long in Spades. John
    1. I will gladly join the battle of the pedants: both ‘long suit’ and ‘strong suit’ are well attested, the latter being much more common in general usage. In fact, according to some definitions, ‘strong suit’ means a long suit with high cards, which is definitely closer to the colloquial meaning.

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