Times Quick Cryptic 1767 by Teazel

Author   william_j_sPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
Well that was a struggle! I couldn’t get any of the perimeter clues at the top of the grid, nor did any of the long answers jump out. The SW proved a little more tractable, but the momentum didn’t last. Followed by a slow trudge over the finish line – probably my longest time all year. Lots of groans from me and kudos to Teazel.

There’s little obscure vocabulary, except perhaps the dish and one word in 20ac, so I hope I’m alone in finding this one more difficult.

Definitions underlined.

Across
1 Disadvantage of ward, literally (8)
DRAWBACK – a kind of reverse clue, where the answer provides the cryptic instruction to get a word in the clue. In this case, DRAW written BACK (reversed) gives ‘ward’ (ward literally).
5 Our cousins a nuisance, almost (4)
APES – A PESt (a nuisance), without the final letter (almost).
8 Going back on decision to have transplant operation? (6,2,5)
CHANGE OF HEART – definition and cryptic hint.
10 Navy left in bases (5)
FLEET – L (left) contained by (in) FEET (bases).
11 Beg little devil to get learning (7)
IMPLORE – IMP (little devil) next to (to get) LORE (learning).
12 Make mistake with simple task (6)
ERRAND – ERR (make mistake) then AND (with).
13 Rows in church, so rude (6)
COARSE – OARS (rows) contained by (in) CE (Church of England, church).
16 Poor dog, its appropriate part cut short (7)
CURTAIL – CUR (poor dog) then TAIL (its appropriate part).
18 Correct height on masts, sails, etc (5)
RIGHT – HT (height) on RIG (masts, sails, etc.).
20 Astonished, inveighs against delivery vehicle (13)
THUNDERSTRUCK – THUNDERS (inveighs, assails or makes an attack) next to (against) TRUCK (delivery vehicle).
21 American guy expected to host duke (4)
DUDE – DUE (expected) containing (to host) D (duke).
22 Old-fashioned relative moves forward (6,2)
PASSES ON – PASSÉ (old-fashioned) and SON (relative).

Down
1 Drink available from inside cafe (5)
DECAF – hidden in (available from) insiDE CAFe.
2 A chess defeat: game over for dilettante (7)
AMATEUR – A MATE (a chess defeat), then RU (rugby union, game) reversed (over).
3 Level of marsh quite unexceptional (3,8)
BOG STANDARD – definition and cryptic hint.
4 Biscuit that may be placed on computer (6)
COOKIE – definition and cryptic hint.
6 Nature god holding one old instrument to play (5)
PIANO – PAN (nature god) containing (holding) I (one, Roman numerals) then O (old).
7 Drunkard present, whether you like it or not (2,5)
SO THERE – SOT (drunkard) and HERE (present).
9 Ancient doctor prophetic, as seen afresh (11)
HIPPOCRATES – anagram of (seen afresh) PROPHETIC AS.
12 No longer referred to as enthusiastic (7)
EXCITED – EX (no longer) and CITED (referred to).
14 Spicy dishes converted to sugar (7)
RAGOUTS – anagram of (converted) TO SUGAR. This spicy stew is not to be confused with ‘ragu’ (a tomatoey sauce), apparently.
15 Female guest left off roll in academy, first of all (6)
GLORIA – initial letters from (first of all) Guest Left Off Roll In Academy.
17 Eighteen holes, then buy this at the nineteenth? (5)
ROUND – definition and cryptic hint. A round of golf (eighteen holes) and a round of drinks.
19 Nominal fine received by a number (5)
TOKEN – OK (fine) contained by (received by) TEN (a number).

55 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic 1767 by Teazel”

  1. 8 minutes. Like our blogger I had problems getting started but having found my first answer (IMPLORE at 11ac) things picked up and I made good progress and up time. The one that resisted my attentions longest was COOKIE at 4dn.

    Edited at 2020-12-16 05:15 am (UTC)

  2. No real problem (43 minutes including brief interruption). Couldn’t parse PASSES ON as I was sure it started PA’S which made life difficult.
    Also had trouble with AMATEUR and for some reason decided that UR was of biblical origin. Definitely careless.
    Liked DRAWBACK and CURTAIL but my COD SO THERE.
    Thank you Teazel and William.
  3. Six on the first pass of acrosses, so started reasonably well and the downs went in nicely too to finish just under 10m. Only somewhere between parsing and the page COARSE became ‘course’ to give a pink square – annoying. I would have had the trouble William suggests with ‘inveighs’ but with all the checkers but one in place THUNDERSTRUCK jumped straight out the grid. Biggest holds up in the SE where RAGOUTS took some letter juggling and PASSES ON took a while to reveal itself.
  4. I was right on Teazel’s wavelength today and this went in with barely a pause. I initially had a MER at RAGOUTS being described as spicy but, as william mentioned, I had confused it with Ragu.
    I nearly made a complete mess of things by pressing submit without completing all of the clues, as for some reason I’d failed to see COOKIE. DRAWBACK was very clever and PASSES ON gets an honourable mention but my COD goes to APES for making me chuckle. Finished in 6.35.
    Thanks to william for the blog and Teazel for an entertaining puzzle.
  5. … as unusually Mrs S gives me first go at the paper (we are old fashioned and do everything with paper and pen), and I respond with an 8 minute solve. Maybe the little grey cells work better in the early morning!

    A nice puzzle from Teazel and I appear to have been on wavelength. Only two clues caused me slight hesitation in the parsing: in 16A Curtail I wondered if the construction was Dog = Tail, but that does not work as then the word dog has to work twice, and then took time to work out what “appropriate part” was doing in the clue. I concluded that Teazel was merely a little stuck for a more elegant surface. And in 22A, my LOI, I didn’t immediately equate Moves forward with Passes on, which I am more familiar with as a euphemism for dying. And having an adult son of my own, I did reflect wryly that anyone with a passé son must be doubly passé themselves!

    A question for our etymologists – what is the origin of the phrase “bog standard”? Classic British English phrase (which I suspect doesn’t resonate elsewhere in the Anglosphere), but where does it come from?

    Many thanks to William for the blog
    Cedric

    1. The first recorded use was in the 1980s. Brewer’s and OED aren’t sure but suggest it’s a corruption of ‘box standard’ referring to a manufactured item that’s straight out of the box with no added refinements.
  6. Having entered PORTS for 10ac, I proceeded to weave a somewhat tangled web. No times, had to consult the blog. Thank you, Teazel and William for no end of a lesson. And Happy Pythagorean Theorem Day!
  7. A very satisfying crossword today.

    I’d’ve finished earlier if I hadn’t had a mental blank about the golf ROUND, and ashamed to admit to GLORIA as the LOI – I usually get those first!

    Thank you Teazel and William.

    Diana

  8. I got hung up on ‘navy left in bases’ being ‘ports’, though I guess it would have had to have been ‘base’ singular to work…
  9. Couldn’t get 1ac or 5ac at first look so switched to the downs and they all went in except 14dn because I had no idea that RAGOUTS are spicy and was trying to think of something from a curry house menu!

    On revisiting the acrosses I could see why DRAWBACK had been too clever for me but I thought “our cousins” was an iffy definition for APES. Anyway, the only hold up was ERRAND where I tried hard to justify first ERRING and then ERRANT before clicking.

    FOI DECAF, LOI ERRAND, COD DRAWBACK, time exactly 1 Jack/Cedric for a Very Good Day.

    Many thanks Teazel and William.

    Templar

    1. That’s because they’re not*. A Ragout is a very richly flavoured and slow-cooked French stew, but it isn’t what you’d call spicy. Same as decaf isn’t really a drink in its own right. But thankfully both were relatively straightforward to solve with one being hidden and the other an anagram.

      A nicely pitched Quickie today overall. Thanks Teazel and William. FOI CHANGE OF HEART, LOI ERRAND (after eventually getting EXCITED) COD DRAWBACK

      (*at least traditionally. You can get spicy Ragout, but you can also get spicy fish and chips and you wouldn’t describe that as a spicy dish)

      1. Thanks Anonymous. I looked up all kinds of ragout recipes before writing this up, in the hope I’d be able to make a comment on their spiciness! Difficult if you’ve never knowingly eaten one.

        Chambers has ‘highly seasoned’, whatever that means.

    2. My word, my day is complete! I am now, it seems, a measuring stick for others, and so in the same league as football pitches and London buses. Thank you, Templar, and I am, to use the word of the day, thunderstruck.

      Cedric

  10. Wed, 16 Dec 20
    FOI: 1d DECAF
    LOI: 19d TOKEN

    30 Minute Mark: 5
    60 Minute Mark: 15
    Time before use of aids: 30

    Total Answered: 15/24

    Wow, I found this one tough going, my poorest effort this week. My FPI was DECAF, though I was a little hesitant as Decaf is not actually a drink in its own right, after all it could relate to coffee or tea. However, I went with it, and as other clues that intersected it fell into place, it became obvious it was right.

    It took me a while to see the in-your-face indicator in the clue, which annoyed me a bit.

    Oh well, I had a fun time trying to solve this one.

    2. 1a has come up before – I think twice – in similar mode – so it was a write in for me – otherwise it would probably prove impossible…. I took a long time but gave up with Apes and Piano incomplete… just didn’t see piano! But this was tricky!
      Keep going!!
  11. Like others, 1ac and 5ac stayed blank at first but I picked up speed around the grid. I had no problems with the anagrams and longer answers today and I thought I was on for a quickie but I was slowed by not seeing COOKIE (why?) and had to trawl the alphabet for GLORIA (I was mad at myself when the penny finally dropped). My LOI was PASSES ON and took ages but I managed to finish in 15.17 – just a few seconds over target. Some very good clues – thanks to Teazel and also to William. John M.

    Edited at 2020-12-16 01:34 pm (UTC)

  12. 13 minutes here, which is becoming the new faster time as I slow down, or the QC gets generally harder. AMATEUR was LOI, DECAF FOI and PASSES ON my COD, as well as supplying WOD PASSÉ. Thanks Teazel and William.
  13. Teazel puzzles are usually difficult, but this one seemed more obscure than usual. Surprisingly I finished two minutes under my 20m target, with visits to Chambers to check the meanings of ‘inveighs’, ‘dilettante’ and ‘ragout’, and the spelling of HIPPOCRATES. My LOI was DRAWBACK, the clue made no sense at the start and even less at the end, so my thanks to William for the explanation.

    Brian

  14. I was blank for 3 or 4 minutes then it suddenly clicked. Enjoyed it though so thanks Teazel and william. 5a was quite tough combined with 6d although it looked like it was going to be piano. For a quickie should 4d have hinted at it being a US word. It’s not a biscuit over here is it?
    1. There are, increasingly, recipe books that term biscuits as cookies, especially the large, chewy ones.
  15. Really enjoyed this one. Not easy by any means but some really clever clues. I particularly liked 1 across which made me smile, thunderstruck was another satisfying clue. I’m not sure why cookie was my LOI, in hindsight it should be one of the easiest ones. Just over 12 minutes so about average for me.
  16. I think this QC was pitched just about right for me with some clues easily deciphered and others requiring a little cogitation. My FOI was DECAF followed by the clues CHANGE OF HEART and FLEET from the first letter checkers. Hold ups were ERRAND (my COD for the simplicity), COARSE, PASSES ON and my LOI COOKIE which required an alphabet trawl. 9 mins of enjoyment. Thanks to William for the blog.

    Surely Verlaine’s account has been compromised as the Times QC leaderboard shows his solving time as 1:37 which is off the scale.

    Edited at 2020-12-16 11:00 am (UTC)

  17. A lovely offering from Teazel, hard but doable with some very imaginative clues. I danced all around the grid as most clues took at least two goes before the penny dropped. Thanks to Teazel, and to William for an excellent blog and for reminding me why UR is a backwards game as well as an ancient city.

    FOI: 8a CHANGE OF HEART
    LOI: 13a COARSE
    COD: 1a DRAWBACK (a type of clue that was totally new to me)

    9:07 for a Very Enjoyable Day

  18. Steady solve today, so I would say this was a touch easier than Teazel’s usual offerings. FOI was 1a as I think it must be a bit of a chestnut that WARD = DRAW backwards. Wasn’t sure what inveighs meant so I had to wait until I had most of the checkers to get 20a and I never fully parsed AMATEUR as I forgot that RU = Rugby Union = Game. LOsI were 22a and 19d because I had PASSES BY in at first. I thought TOKEY might be something, but I liked TOKEN better. Time was 29:37, COD to 17d. Thanks to all as usual.
  19. Marginally slower than yesterday at 16 minutes. A lovely puzzle which I thoroughly enjoyed – thanks Teazel. My only problems were in the NW where 1ac, 2dn and 4dn caused me to scratch my head. It took much longer than it should have done to crack 4dn which then lead very quickly to the solutions for the other two.

    FOI – 11ac IMPLORE
    LOI – 2dn AMATEUR
    COD – 1ac DRAWBACK for its cleverness (I had no idea what was going on until the answer revealed itself) and 12dn EXCITED for making me smile.

    Thanks to William for the blog

  20. I note that Mr. Templar-Reflux has gone over to the Jack/Cedric system. Will he be getting a nice watch for Christmas? Methink Kevin, like his President cannot bear a DNF. Mr. Poison Wyvern did not make it. Why not start using aids straight away? Might save time. Bless!

    I arrived at 9.45 on after a somewhat bumpy ride.

    FOI 3dn BOG STANDARD Jack The children’s toy set Meccano came in two standards: Box Standard and Box Deluxe. Box Standard was the basic model and is believed to be the derivation of the term bog standard, which means average. The workers at the Meccano factory renamed Box Deluxe to the ‘Dog’s Bollocks’. (Made in Stanley, Liverpool in the swinging sixties).Try sayin’ both in a ‘Scouse accent, like Ringo in TTTE.

    LOI 4dn COOKIE not used much at all in UK – which doesn’t take the biscuit. I wanted CHOCCHIP to fit but it was a bit tight.

    COD 1ac DRAWBACK

    WOD 20ac THUNDERSTRUCK

    Edited at 2020-12-16 11:54 am (UTC)

    1. The Meccano connection is interesting. OED suggests ‘motor engineering, or other technical contexts’ which more or less fits.

      Please don’t make discouraging comments about other people’s attempts at solving as it’s not within the spirit of the forum. Bantering with old hands is one thing, but not with newcomers who are finding their feet and are not used to your ‘sense of humour’.

      1. I remember a classmate at high school in Northern Ireland c 1968 using the expression to describe a car (base model as opposed to GT

        Never seen the guy since

    2. https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/bog-standard.html

      This webpage sets out some of the arguments that debunk your ‘box-deluxe’ becomes ‘dog’s bollocks’ theory. There is no evidence that such a label was ever applied to a product, nor for the linguistic jump.

      It also, incidentally, cast some doubt on Jackkt’s ‘box-standard’ become ‘bog standard’ idea too. While this leap is considerably more plausible than the aforementioned one, the dates of first recorded usage don’t quite work…

      1. Thanks for that link, Will, and I shall save it for future reference on other phrases as they come up. On ‘bog standard’, I have no opinion but was only quoting Brewers and OED both of which equivocate but nevertheless repeat the commonly held belief.
      2. Jack – I find that Mr. Wyvern himself is more than guilty of self-disparagement with his daily litany of woes!

        William – it is my old mate and national treasure, Stephen Fry who debunked the ‘bog standard’ Meccano story on ‘QI’. Back in the 1960s, as per the aforementioned webpage, to explain that ‘DB’ story in full might have well brought into play the Office of the Lord Chancellor. So the time lag is understandable. I would refer you to both ‘Viz’ magazine and ‘Roger’s Profanisaurus’ for further usage and abusage.

        Edited at 2020-12-16 01:18 pm (UTC)

  21. A very slow start, but progressed steadily thanks to letters filled in. However, could not see APES at all and therefore SO THERE as well, so a DNF, sadly.
  22. I looked up Astonished/ THUNDERSTRUCK. (a COD)

    Also smiled at EXCITED and CHANGE OF HEART and BOG STANDARD

    Oh dear, I put Errant instead of Errand. Knew it wasn’t right but forgot to go back and check so DNF.

    FOsI FLEET, DECAF, DRAWBACK (unparsed) COOKIE (latter seemed too easy)

    LOI PASSES ON

    Thanks William and all, as ever

    Edited at 2020-12-16 12:32 pm (UTC)

  23. After a nocturnal visit to the smallest room sometime before dawn, I was unable to return to my slumbers, so eventually hauled myself back out of bed and partook of some hot chocolate and a COOKIE. I was then obviously less than wide awake when I tackled this puzzle, as I was unable to make any sense of the NW corner and built up from APES, PIANO and IMPLORE. I then stumbled around the grid and crawled over the line in 17:27, returning to the land of nod at around 7:30am. Happily, I then nodded off and have just surfaced. I don’t usually find Teazel’s puzzles difficult, so maybe it was a touch of Glue Brain:-) Thanks Teazel and William. I’m off to see what I can make of the 15×15 now.

    Edited at 2020-12-16 12:32 pm (UTC)

  24. Moderate level puzzle for me, mainly because it took ages for me to see DRAWBACK, and then COOKIE, after the rest had gone in relatively easily.

    I liked DRAWBACK, I always like this style of clue, and it often catches me out.

    6:46.

  25. Here’s hoping for a full set of solves this week, today was steady but no real hold-ups, very pleasing clues all over the grid. A perfectly formed QC in my opinion.

    1A very clever, I really like seeing a clue like this.

    COD : BOG STANDARD as its great to have new slang make appearances rather than old chestnuts

  26. A pleasing 17 minutes for me for a puzzle not without its difficulties. Luckily, I was on Teazel’s wavelength today so everything pretty much fell into place.

    Liked 8ac “Change of Heart”, 3dn “Bog Standard” and 12dn “Excited”. Have to admit, I didn’t think “Ragouts” were spicy either and spent quite a bit of time looking for an obscure curry out of the anagram.

    FOI – 8ac “Change of Heart”
    LOI – 22ac “Passes On”
    COD – 5ac “Apes” – very clever and was lucky to spot it early.

    Thanks as usual.

  27. Enjoyed this puzzle. Only 2 clues were completed after 4 mins so restarted after lunch. The fog had then cleared, much like looking at a magic eye picture and all was done and dusted in a total of 27 mins. As my target time is 45 mins, this was a very good day. Didn’t parse 18 but nothing new to add to my trusty notebook.
    Is referring to your own notes considered to be using aids?

    Provisional Solver
    Ex Newbie

    1. Personally, I have a little black book full of various crossword things that I can refer to at a later date. But I try to commit these to memory and don’t refer to it when I’m actually doing the crossword.

      In my own mind, if I have to use the aids when I’m doing the puzzle it’s a technical dnf – however, I must stress, that’s just me. I have no idea if there is a convention or not in regards to this.

  29. DRAWBACK my FOI. I must have seen it before to have seen it straight away, but i don’t recall. It doesn’t seem to be generally seen as a chestnut here. Then slow and steady progress to finish in 16:08 after a struggle with the infuriating GLORIA. kap
  30. Very slow start after implore was put in quickly. Not helped by putting in panto for 6d, then we seemed to get going with the long clues, the rest fell into place.
  31. The crossovers of 1A/D and 12A/D held me up for a very long time today. It seems I can no longer see hiddens?!

    I eventually completed on an hour, but having had to check the blog for 1A, 12A and 16A. Errand was gettable, had I realised I needed to split the ‘with’ out from ‘mistake’. Drawback and curtail though I don’t think I would ever have gotten to from the cryptic. Still not sure I like either clue or answer, but it seems like the more experienced had no issues so perhaps this is just my lack of knowledge and slight grumpiness from the string of DNFs.

    Looking forward to being on the right wavelength again, but thanks Teazel for the puzzle in the meantime and William for the much needed blog!

  32. Just finished an earlier QC from last week and now have an all time personal best of 25 minutes. I cannot believe how fast I worked through Mara’s offering and am rather pleased with myself!

    I was starting to doubt, and just when you think you can’t improve, you suddenly have a great day.

    Many thanks to all the people who blog for all the encouragement you give the less experienced like me! And for those others who struggle often to even finish, your own hurrah moment is coming, keep going!

  33. We really enjoyed this really extremely well set puzzle. Well done and thank you Teazel. Took us 14 minutes to complete.

    FOI: decaf
    LOI: amateur
    COD: so many to choose from but we liked excited and coarse.

    Thanks for the blog William.

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