Times Quick Cryptic 1412 by Des

Author   william_j_sPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
This had a different feel from the usual QC fare, and I took a while to get into it. I got almost nowhere with the NW corner on first pass, and had to look several times at the longer answers before pennies started dropping. Particular difficulties for me were 17ac (where the answer and parsing were tricky) and 5dn (for which the answer was obvious from checkers, but the parsing had to wait) both of which I biffed with a shrug. Overall, I’d say it’s tough.

Definitions underlined.

Across
1 Every so often, setting a mean mark! (6)
STIGMA – every other letter from (every so often) SeTtInG a MeAn.
4 Requirement to keep dry, now you’ve landed (6)
NETTED – NEED (requirement) containing (to keep) TT (teetotal, dry)
8 Cool art forms part of index (7)
LOCATOR – anagram of (forms) COOL ART. Apparently, the page numbers under the headings in an index are known as locators. Makes sense, but was new to me.
10 Old king held back by lese-majesty (5)
JAMES – reverse hidden in (held back by) leSE-MAJesty.
11 Journalist trapped in vehicle that has cones all round it? (5)
CEDAR – ED (journalist) surrounded by (trapped in) CAR (vehicle).
12 Denies a Yankee, eg, has been entertained by Poles (7)
NAYSAYS – A, Y (Yankee in the phonetic alphabet) and SAY (eg) all inside (entertained by) N and S (north and south, poles). I’ve seen ‘say’ = ‘eg’ before, but not the other way round.
13 Stormont House’s leader altered extreme position (9)
NORTHMOST – anagram of (altered) STORMONT and the first letter of (…’s leader) House.
17 Fighter in Canadian feature knocking out Lawrence (7)
STRIVER – removal of (knocking out) ‘Lawrence’ from ST. lawrence RIVER (Canadian feature). I thought this was a stinker, as I didn’t realise I was looking for a river, haven’t heard of this particular river, and struggled to make the asociation between ‘fight’ and ‘strive’.
19 Regretting replacing first of scooters with large truck (5)
LORRY – sORRY (regretting), replacing the ‘s’ (first of scooters) with ‘L’ (large).
20 A ring or chain in water (5)
ATOLL – A and TOLL (ring). A chain of islands in the sea.
21 Dawn insures convertible (7)
SUNRISE – anagram of (convertible) INSURES.
22 In Dallas, Carol dated sailor (6)
LASCAR – hidden in (in) dalLAS CARol. Another new bit of (antiquated) vocabulary for me, but a super clue!
23 Cosmetics on faces of the old, not exactly right, somehow (6)
TONERS – first letters from (on the faces of) The Old Not Exactly Right Somehow.

Down
1 Note doctor brings comfort (6)
SOLACE – SO (note, from the sol-fa scale, do-re-mi, etc.) then LACE (doctor, as in doctor/lace/tamper with a drink).
2 Are they organised by CID in Montrose? (8,5)
INCIDENT ROOMS – anagram of (organised) CID IN MONTROSE. The whole thing is a sort of cryptic definition, but it falls short of being an &lit. due to the slightly clunky contruction of the anagrind. Still a contender for COD though.
3 More experienced, but could make erratum (7)
MATURER – anagram of (could make) ERRATUM.
5 Experience for the French going on transport (5)
ENJOY – EN (French for going on, as in travelling by, as in voyage en train) then JOY (transport, as in rapture). I would not be surprised if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick.
6 What prisoners do when pub closes, repeatedly (4,5,4)
TIME AFTER TIME – TIME (what prisoners do) and AFTER TIME (when pub closes).
7 Stop Des first! (6)
DESIST – DES and 1ST (first). Cunning, and I suppose a bit irresistable for this setter.
9 Farmers organised statue of God outside church (9)
RANCHEROS – RAN (organised) and EROS (statue of god, in this case the Greek god of love) containing (outside) CH (church). My LOI, despite having the right explanation for the parsing, and seeing ‘ranchers’ early on, but finding myself a letter short.
14 Golden light round Florida resort (7)
ORLANDO – OR (golden, from heraldry), LAND (light), and O (round). I have subsequently discovered that this meaning of ‘light’ or ‘alight’ (to dismount or land after a journey) literally means to make light (less heavy). Nice.
15 Go for a boat trip, touring south (6)
ASSAIL – A and SAIL (boat trip) containing (touring) S (south).
16 French schools, or else youth clubs — initially — reformed (6)
LYCEES – anagram of (reformed) ELSE and the first letters from (initially) Youth Clubs.
18 Roman road circling two lakes and country house (5)
VILLA – VIA (Roman road) containing (circling) two Ls (lakes).

46 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic 1412 by Des”

  1. I typed in ATOLL without blinking an eye, and it wasn’t until I came here that I noticed ‘chain’; I would have said an atoll was an island, but I see that it can be a chain of them, too. I wondered about the EN of ENJOY; but I imagine William’s analysis is correct. 6:09.
  2. Like Lord Vinyl, this took me about 18 minutes over lunch.

    Plenty of long grass in the NORTHernMOST regions

    FOI 22ac LASCAR

    LOI 4ac NETTED

    COD 2n INCIDENT ROOMS

    WOD 9dn RANCHEROS which her indoors thought were corn chips!

    Today’s 15×15 is very average, unlike yesterday’s train-crash – just sayin’.

    Edited at 2019-08-07 05:59 am (UTC)

  3. Nothing delayed me unduly here and I finished just on 10 minutes, so within my target time, but as I was solving I was thankful for my years of experience doing cryptics as I realised that some of the clues were difficult.

    My only actual unknown was LOCATOR as ‘part of index’ but given that it was an anagram, once I had a couple of checkers in place the answer could only be one thing.

    I also looked twice at NORTHMOST as the word I would use for this is ‘northernmost’ but that wouldn’t fit.

    Fortunately LYCEES (or perhaps just ‘lycee’) came up quite recently in another puzzle when it caught me out, so I was ready for it today. I’d seen LASCAR recently too.

    I’m sure Will’s parsing of ENJOY is correct – it’s how I parsed it anyway.

  4. Dnf with a shriver for 17a after 29 mins.

    Enjoy is a weak clue. ‘Like in french ecstasy’ is simpler.
    Also think incident rooms is clunky.
    The wordplay leads us to (by cid montrose)*
    so that took some sorting.

    Repeat prisoners might do time after time.
    Dnk locator.

    Agree with horryd re 15×15, its more enjoyable and same level as this.

    Cod atoll and sunrise.

    Edited at 2019-08-07 06:43 am (UTC)

    1. The wordplay for INCIDENT ROOMS doesn’t suggest an anagram including BY
      Or at least, it might do, but the idea is the answer organises the letters of CID IN MONTROSE as it’s organised by them.
  5. I founnd this decidedly tricky with both ENJOY and STRIVERS eventually going in unparsed. On the whole I think it was the definitions rather than the wordplay that I found hardest e.g. at 4a and 11a. Finished in 20.52 with LOI RANCHEROS, which I’d not heard of before.
    Thanks for the blog William, it was much needed today.
  6. Too difficult for me, leading to a massive DNF with nowhere near enough checkers. I thought I did well to get the clues I solved, such as STRIVER and NAYSAYS, there were just not enough of them.
    Thank you William for the blog, although I don’t think I’ve learnt much from this one.

    Brian

    Edited at 2019-08-07 07:29 am (UTC)

  7. I found this tough too. I was surprised to see I was well over my 10 minute target with several left to do. I struggled to make sense of ENJOY, but biffed it anyway. STIGMA was my FOI, and RANCHEROS was last. I originally tried to do something with SEAWAY at 17a. 14:32. Thanks Des and William.

    Edited at 2019-08-07 08:16 am (UTC)

  8. Having been doing the cryptic now for about 3 years, I can honestly say this was the worst one I have done. I finished it, but boy was it a struggle. It just didn’t seem to flow. It was a hard slog, without any of the clever whimsical clues normally in the QC. Having lived on the St. Lawrence River, that one also didn’t jump out at me either. Congratulations to the Blogger for getting the parsing.

    Edited at 2019-08-07 07:49 am (UTC)

    1. Likewise – over 3 years doing these. I know I’m very poor but was getting somewhere with the help of this excellent blog, but recently there have been some consummate DNFs. This one probably the worst. Several clues I would never have got in a million years. Eg. Rancheros. I did a crossword solver trawl on this one and only got Rancheria as a possible answer, which made 21 across impossible. I have heard of rancheros but would never have thought of it. Oh well, tomorrow is another day. Thanks to you amazing solvers and bloggers for your help.
  9. I thought recently that I was really beginning to get the hang of these puzzles, but this made me think twice. It was depressingly hard, and took some time to work out the answers, even with the help of the bloggers – for whom grateful thanks!

    Diana

  10. Too tricky for a quickie in my book. DNF and now I see the answrrs glad I didn’t waste more time on it.
  11. This was an exercise in trusting wordplay with LASCAR and RANCHEROS and a lucky guess with STRIVER where I spent too long thinking about DH Lawrence… Definitely towards the hard end, 13.48 for me

    NeilC

  12. 17m for me, so at the tougher end of the rotterometer, although I think this is more to do with unfamiliarity with the Setter than inherent difficulty with the clues themselves. There are a few traps with GK such as LASCAR and LOCATOR, and I do think that 2d is weak, but otherwise all fair enough. Thanks Setter and Blogger – let’s hope tomorrow is easier.
  13. This was a curate’s egg. I did the NW corner without any delay and thought I was in for a record time. Fat chance! The rest of the puzzle had enough trips and quirks to tax me and take me into VSCC territory. The SW was easy, apart from STRIVER (too clever for a QC?) and ASSAIL which took a while. The NE was fine apart from ENJOY and NAYSAYS which eluded me for quite a time. NORTHMOST and RANCHEROS were both tough, I thought, and made life hard because they dominated the middle of the grid. I have never known such extremes in a QC and must commiserate with newer solvers who will have found it very frustrating. Many clues were closer to the 15×15 standard IMO. No doubt others in the F1 club are yet to post sub-5 min times and will disagree. Ah well, thanks to Des for the challenge (and for DESIST) and to William for a helpful blog. Here’s to Thursday…….. John M.

    Edited at 2019-08-07 09:03 am (UTC)

  14. As a novice, I thought that I was doing well after solving yesterday’s puzzle, but found today’s far too difficult, so gave up. Did, though, try the 15 x 15 and, although I couldn’t finish it, I did solve many of the clues, and found it most enjoyable.
  15. ….that belonged in a 15×15 (eg INCIDENT ROOMS), and for once I sympathize with the “too difficult” brigade since it took me twice as long as usual (and more than 50% over target). A slow start didn’t help

    FOI JAMES (but it didn’t lead to anything else, and I only got going after next one in ATOLL)
    LOI TONERS
    COD SOLACE
    TIME 7:40

  16. I have been at this for a few months and this puzzle in no way should have been a QC. Even a hard QC was easier than this. I thought the clueing was obscure and not user friendly. Sorry Des but this fell way short of encouragement for new puzzlers.
    I almost never write on these blogs because you have to accept a balance of hard and easy puzzles, that is how we learn. But this was a step to far for a QC.
  17. That was a real struggle. RANCHEROS – where did that come from? Enjoyed STRIVER, a most imaginative clue.
    PlayUpPompey
  18. Having battled my way through this over 40mins or so, I feel more than a tad frustrated at not being able to get loi 9d without resorting to aids. Rancheros? In a QC? I don’t think I would have got that one in a month of Sundays. Invariant
  19. Late to the puzzle today as I had an early game of golf,played in bright sunshine. Now feeling smug as it’s raining outside.
    I was feeling nicely tired when I came to this puzzle and attributed my relative slowness to that; my eyes did close after 17 minutes. But I woke up and finished this in 19:53 and now see nearly everyone found it difficult.
    My LOI was NAYSAYS (not fully parsed) after ENJOY (not parsed at all). FOI was SOLACE. I agree not easy and a different style. I’m sure RANCHEROS has come up recently, perhaps in a weekend puzzle.
    David

  20. I’ve been doing the quickies since they started and now generally manage to finish with just a few aids. I did finish this one but with a lot of reference aids. Was sure NAYSAYS must be right but not in any of my on-line or paper dictionaries and missed the N&S for Poles. Others were also correct but couldn’t get the wordplay for ENJOY so was unsure about the NETTED ENJOY JAMES NAYSAYS corner. Many thanks for the blog and comments – always useful and enlightening.
  21. I think a typo has slipped in to your definition of 13 across. It is an anagram of Stormont and the first letter of house not the last

    Alison

  22. I too have been doing the QC since it started – it coincided nicely with retirement
    and was my introduction to the world of cryptics. I follow the blog every day (without commenting myself) and it has been a great learning tool – thanks to everyone particularlythe regular contributors. I pretty much always manage to complete the QC, albeit occasionally after resorting to aids. However, today’s is the most difficult for me personally in a very long time with a DNF of 7 clues. I can now do better than that with the 15×15 on easier days. Not sure why this one was so difficult but possibly because I was not expecting solutions like NAYSAYS and ASSAIL in a QC. It’s all good experience though and there’s always tomorrow.
    PhilC
  23. I’m fine with a pig like this but I do hope the newbies read this blog otherwise they might possibly never try again.
    It’s like setting up a golf course where 12 holes could be Stroke Index 1. You’d have a pint and put your clubs on eBay.
    Johnny
  24. Stinker for me too, 19 mins which is over 3K and thus a Bad Day. Booo.

    Is RANCHEROS an English word? I only got it because of the utterly delicious Mexican breakfast dish huevos rancheros.

    Thanks for a fine blog, William.

    Templar

  26. Like others, far too hard for me. Only finished with a lot of resorting to aids. Some I had no clue ss to the parsing, so thanks for the blog.

    I hope Des takes a holiday!

    1. Well, if previous form is anything to go by we won’t be seeing Des again until 2020 as so far he has never set more than 3 per calendar year and he has already reached that target for 2019.

      It may be of some interest that Des was responsible for the very first QC which appeared on 10 March 2014 and I found it very tough (it took me 30 minutes), not helped by the fact that the multi-word and hyphenated answers were not enumerated as such in the on-line version.

  27. Hardest ever QC in my opinion. Had more unsolved in this than the 15×15. Maybe it’s sour grapes but as far as the elegance of clues is concerned this did not seem to me to be the Times’s finest hour!
  28. 12 across is a Mephisto standard clue, not remotely a QC clue. Once a fortnight there is nothing wrong with a tough QC to aid transition to the 15×15 but there must be limits. 17 across likewise. 13 and 22 across were fair enough because they were eminently guessable even if the word was not known. I would like to add my thanks to the brilliant regular bloggers here who have educated me greatly.
  29. Maybe the QC should adopt the Times Soduku classification and this would have been fiendish. If one is warned in advance that today’s QC is a genuine stinker one would be more accepting that one could not crack it!

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