Times Cryptic No 28817 — Not exactly 16 down

106 comments on “Times Cryptic No 28817 — Not exactly 16 down”

1. Yes, very tricky. Also held up by ‘on the ball’. I think ‘on the contrary’ in 1 down also directs us to place ‘st’ across ‘ages’.

   1. Oh yes, I was thinking this as I solved. Although I think it can be read either way? I’m never sure about some of these indicators.

      1. It should be read one way on the surface but the other way in the cryptic meaning. It’s not that it’s doing double duty on the cryptic level. Thanks, finally saw that.

         1. I suppose. Though I don’t see why “X crosses street” couldn’t mean SXT. After all, where are you when you cross the street?

2. I had ON THE BALL and was trying to think of something like HEADCASE (as one using (drugs), I had no idea about the free ticket). In the end I gave up and bunged something in on the assumption it was a slang word I didn’t know. So DNF. Now that I think of it, “ON THE GAME” means being a prostitute, so a “pro”.

   1. Oh my goodness! Thanks for that reference!

3. I did finish correctly, although I was totally off the wavelength and made numerous mistakes. You’ll never get anywhere if you think pureed is (3,3)! Well, at least I knew M1, which is taking on new importance nowadays as QT takes hold. Abu Dhabi takes me back to my first blog, when things were very different here.

   Time: 2 hours more or less, interrupted by various domestic tasks to refresh the brain

4. In 7d, IT is just a slang expression for sexual intercourse. A bit of a racy puzzle all round

   1. “It” in this sense comes up so often that I recently discovered, to my chagrin, that I’d titled two of my Sunday Times blogs the same way, with “What it’s all about.”

      1. Yes, sorry, I was taking that sense for granted. I just thought there was an expression “after it”, something like: “he’s really after it tonight!”. As opposed to just the literal sense of being after “it”.

5. This wasn’t difficult. It was impossible.
   Ha. (I sometimes say this about a—dear—friend of mine.)
   I did finish. But I wasn’t the SAGEST—it took “forever.” (I was trying to figure that one out with ST somewhere in the middle.)
   It was unsatisfying not to know (or to be able to track down) MI with the sense here, or backup for the definition of DEADHEAD.
   And I, too, had ON THE BALL for too long.
   Some fantastic clues here, though. Glad I persevered.

   SHEIKH is pronounced “chic” (“sheek”) in English, but apparently it’s “shake” in Arabic (and the œuvre of Frank Zappa).

   1. Years ago SHEIKH came up here, with Dorset Jimbo complaining about the pronunciation required (shake) to make the clue work, noting that he and many other English people pronounced it sheek. I had believed that it was simply sheek/US, shake/UK, but evidently not.

      1. In my experience (backed up by Collins) ‘shake’ is much more common in the UK.

         1. Agreed. Remember the OPEC honcho Sheikh Yamani? His name never got pronounced Sheek Yamani on the news bulletins of the day.

            1. There also Sheik Yerbouti.

               1. As I alluded to above.

                  1. Oh yeah, so you did!

               2. Lovers of old adverts may remember Sheik n’Bake.

            2. And, indeed, when the NOTW caught lots of people with their fake sheikh.

      2. Kevin, I think your belief is basically correct and as keriothe has written, it’s backed up by Collins (to which I would add SOED). However ‘sheek’ is also common in the UK, especially to those of an older generation like Jimbo and myself who would have been very familiar with the song The Sheik (sic) of Araby.

         This was written in 1921 by two Americans, possibly to capitalise on the success of the recent Rudolph Valentino film The Sheik. The song was a smash hit in its day and re-recorded dozens of times over the years by artistes both American and British ranging from Eddie Cantor in 1922 to the Beatles in 1962, all of them pronouncing it ‘sheek’.

         1. Definitely “Shake” for me, “Sheek” would make me think of Nile Rogers ..

            1. 😁

         2. Didn’t the Guinness Book of Records once list as the trickiest tongue-twister in English ‘The sixth sheikh’s sixth sheep’s sick’? I think so, and I guess that, whenever that was, the more common English pronunciation rhymed with ‘chic’. Hmm … So when did I last check with Guinness for this vital sort of knowledge? I’d guess during secondary school, so 1972-77. Times and fashions may have changed, but it still rhymes with ‘chic’ in my house. And I still couldn’t solve this clue, so a DNF for me.

   2. You may not read this as all solvers seem to do their crossword before the sparrows sing ..but sheikh is also pronounced shake in English

      1. Vide supra.

6. 21:41. A tough and enjoyable puzzle, with M1 presenting a rare gift for us students of “the dismal science”.

   Like everybody else I had ON THE BALL until the unknown (in that context) DEADHEAD forced a rethink.

   Thanks Jeremy and setter. Think Nigel has the passing of SAGEST correct.

7. Some parts of this were nearly as devious as yesterday’s offering and at 62 minutes I took almost as long to unravel it, but not with anything like the same degree of enjoyment and satisfaction as too many answers went in with a shrug accompanied by the thought “I suppose so, but…”.

   I constructed 2dn correctly from wordplay, but the definition seems a bit iffy to me. NHO M1 with reference to money. NHO DEADHEAD with reference to free tickets – only removing dead blooms from garden plants. I had no idea what was going on re ‘meat’ at 6dn and does ‘spotted’ really mean UNCLEAN?

   I thought the definition of SPIRAL STAIRCASE worked but ‘Windy flight?’ might have been neater.

   This being Friday, at lunchtime I shall be enjoying a beer overlooking the GRAND UNION CANAL in a pub that was formerly a lock-keeper’s cottage. Fuller’s Golden Pride will be my choice of tipple for such a cold winter’s day. Must get there early for a seat by the log fire!

   1. I’d never heard of the GRAND UNION CANAL.
      “Spotted” is the opposite of “spotless,” so why not? But Collins has it covered anyway: “2. stained or blemished; soiled or bespattered.”

   2. Deadhead actually refers to someone who travels from one Grateful Dead concert to another, a kind of perpetual fan.

      He probably doesn’t pay for his ticket either!

      1. Since the first citation for this usage in OED is 1854 I suspect this may not be the origin!

   3. Jack I am envious of that plan, enjoy

   4. Hmm…might have to revise my opinion of Jack. He likes Golden Pride. 🙂

      1. I’ve never seen a Golden Pride. I drink a fair amount of London Pride but this one has slipped past me.

         1. It’s in bottles only. Many Fullers pubs don’t sell it, possibly depending on whether they are managed houses or tenanted. The landlord at my local (on the canal) buys it in specially for me, but you can obtain it online from the Fullers website. It’s to be savoured, not “necked”.

            1. U-BOAT. Ultimate Beer Of All Time

   5. Well I have just crossed the GRAND UNION CANAL on my way to and from a client (following part of the route of the lost Westbourne river of London). I passed a pub called the Waterway and wondered if that might be your local but then realised it couldn’t be because there is no lock nearby. Shame, because otherwise I could very well have dropped in and enjoyed a pint by the fire with you.

      Yes, a good knotty puzzle today. As I put in ON THE BALL I realised that it was probably wrong (I was actually thinking that ‘pro’ referred to prostitution but the correct phrase didn’t come to me immediately) so I was willing to give it up if the 28A checker required it. And so it proved.

      Many thanks to Jeremy and the setter. Great fun.

8. Phew! That was a toughie! I’m in the vinyl1 camp, about two hours with many chores and also watching the Aus Open. ON THE GAME only emerged when I said, aloud, that ‘surely they’re not referring to the ancient abbreviation for prostitute?’ and suddenly, voila! I hope someone can explain SAGEST, I still can’t see a definition. SECRECY, DEADHEAD (meaning what, exactly?), MOLASSES and LOATHING were others that took a fair slice of the day. Enjoyable but very difficult puzzle.

   1. You’re not, so “on the contrary,” the SAGEST to dawdle when crossing the street.

      1. Thank you Guy. That’s quite a stretch, but I guess that’s what we’re here for!

         1. My apologies, I had something like that exact sentence written in an earlier draft of the blog but I think took it out and I don’t know why.

9. DNF. I gave up when I couldn’t reconcile DEADHEAD and ON THE BALL, giving me 5 DNF out of the past 7 puzzles. Roll on next week (I hope!).

10. DNF. ON THE BALL seemed a perfectly good answer. I did consider that it might be wrong, but not very seriously, and I considered both HEAD for teacher and DEAD for passed on, but never both together. Even if I had I wouldn’t have made the connection between DEADHEAD and using free tickets.
    Close but no cigar.

11. No time hath she to sport and play:
    A charmed web she weaves alway.
    A curse is on her, if she stay
    Her weaving, either night or day,
    To look down to Camelot.
    (The Lady of Shalott, Tennyson)

    40 mins pre-brekker, but definitely worth it. Very nice. I guess many like me will have tried On The Ball first and puzzled over the DeadHead definition, which was new to me. Also M1 for available money.
    Ta setter and PJ.

12. 26′ minutes here, and boy this was a great puzzle, so two corkers in a row. I didn’t find the vocabulary very taxing, but some of the cluing was just out of this world. I couldn’t figure out how MI related to money at all, and having googled it I’m still not convinced this is general knowledge. Ho hum.

    Now reading the rest of the comments, I wonder whether me getting 16D immediately says something about my character … or simply the fact that I’ve been doing a lot of archived Grauniad crosswords recently!

    COD to SPIRAL STAIRCASE for a lovely definition, but I also really liked RANDY, UNCLEAN and PUREED.

    Hoping to still be in the top 100 once The Traitors comes on tonight, but not holding out much hope. Fingers (double) crossed 🙂

13. DNF after 40 minutes, with DEADHEAD missing. It’s always and ever been what I do to roses. I spent a bit of time out trying to remember the debates about which motorway to take out of London when monetarism was all the rage. Didn’t they finally select dead-end street? I liked the SPIRAL STAIRCASE. Thank you Jeremy and setter.

14. 16:45 but a crossing typo I didn’t spot when checking so 2 pinks (I had transposed the I and S in admonish thereby simultaneously inventing the SPIRAL ITAIRCASE).

    Count me in the ON THE BALL camp but I corrected it when I constructed the probable DEAD HEAD from wordplay.

    A very nice puzzle which I found needed a complete brain reset to get to grips with (I think it was spotting (no pun intended) what was going on with UNCLEAN that made me realise this wasn’t going to be full of straightforward cryptic devices and definitions).

    No problem with M1 as I studied economics as part of a business degree and as a corporate treasurer I have to pretend to know about and understand this stuff.

15. Really enjoyed this one but came to a grinding halt with the last two clues, guess which? Deadhead seemed a definite, though I didn’t know that meaning of the word. But so did “on the ball.” So a rare dnf, the required meaning of pro never occurred to innocent little me. And I think if you focus on the ball, the game will look after itself…
    According to the Glossary I have been breeze-blocked, and am therefore an Owl!

    1. I took the ‘focus on the game’ to mean thinking about the short-term ‘game’ rather than the more elusive ‘set’ let alone ‘match’. Taking things one step at a time, as it were.

16. 81m 22s
    The Collins Online I refer to gives the requisite meaning of RANDY, plusjeremy, and also gives SHAKE as the English pronunciation of SHEIKH and this is a British paper.
    The other clue that I had trouble with was LOATHING so thanks, Jeremy.
    Not particularly fond of WATTEAU’s rococo style of painting but the subject of his work ‘The Swing’ does look rather 7d!
    PS….DEADHEAD didn’t initially occur to me for this clue but it was a common term in airlines I worked for to mean crew members travelling on a particular flight but just positioning to another port and not performing any duties on the flight in question.

    1. Martin, you may care to read my newly added comment about Sheikh in response to Kevin above.

       1. Thanks, Jack.

17. 14:50
    DEADHEAD (pilot) as one occupying a free seat in the cockpit of a plane crops up in the film ‘Catch Me If You Can’, based on the autobiography of the serial conman Frank Abagnale, who managed to jet around the world buckshee by posing as a PanAm first officer.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KeVBbFAWY4
    I spent several years following a band called The Salford Sheiks, fronted by the late great CP Lee (whose birthday it would have been today). I once took a photo of him with two TIE-DYEd friends of his, ex-members of Country Joe and The Fish, and posted it on Facebook with the caption “Hippy, Hippy, SHEIKH”.

18. I took 42 minutes and see I am not alone in having put ON THE BALL for 16d and then finding 28ac impossible. In fact, my story is exactly the same as the blogger’s! I’ve never heard of this sense of dead head, finally thought of HEAD for teacher, thought “what if” and cottoned on to pro=prostitute and then it had to be dead head.
    Another good crossword I thought.
    Thanks setter and blogger 🙂

    1. I didn’t even think about the prostitute meaning! I was looking for _A_E that had something to do with sport, and figure ON THE GAME was synonymous with ON THE BALL.

19. Spent so long finally realising that ‘on the ball’ was incorrect that brain froze on ON THE -A-E. Dnf 32′.
    Good puzzle.

    Thanks jeremy and setter.

20. Like Jack, I found this as tough as yesterday but nowhere near as enjoyable, particularly in the SE corner. Home in 40 minutes but still questioning some iffy definitions. Hopefully soon we will have seen the back of 60s salacious slang like IT and PRO.

    1. But the ’60s, easily my favourite decade 🙂

       1. Mine too, although the ’50s came close.

    2. Agree. Clues like that make my toes curl.

    3. I think both go back further than that.

       1. Both commenters, or both words? 🙂 🙂 🙂

          1. Lol

21. 50 mins.
    This was a handful. Haven’t seen ‘meat’ used in that way before. Glad to get through it and finish.
    Thanks, pj.

22. Too good for me. Gave up, and glad I did. Didn’t know M1, DEADHEAD, WATTEAU and had ON THE BALL, which would have ruined any small chance I had of finishing it.
    Still don’t understand UNCLEAN or SAGEST. *shrugs*

23. Yeah, tough at 40 minutes, but nowhere close to as enjoyable as yesterday’s: too many annoyances, or as Jack says “I suppose so, but…”. Clearly we have a slightly naughty setter (guess who?) with RANDY “after it” and ON THE GAME – lady of easy virtue. For the latter, the answer “on the ball” which all of us, it seems, favoured, is much more in keeping with the tennis player, even if a game is part of the match. Is/are MOLASSES bitter? Treacle isn’t.
    Yesterday left me feeling both clever and appreciative. This one’s left me, lets say, crabby.

    1. Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll have to go back and try yesterday’s.

24. No exact time but a minimum of 45 solving on paper.

    Had I been ON THE BALL and not biffed 16D then the tricky SE would have fallen sooner.

    Lots to enjoy throughout and a real test, so thanks to the setter and to Jeremy for the blog.

25. DNF on this; I had been playing with DEAD and HEAD but having ON THE BALL in rather scuppered that, and by the time I was struggling there my hour had pretty much passed. So, at least twice as hard as yesterday’s for me, I’d say…

26. I made the mistake of reading a comment about this on the Quickie blog and perhaps approached it with a more defensive mindset. The unknown DEADHEAD would still have done for me though. A liberal sprinkling of question and exclamation marks jarred – they can feel a bit self-congratulatory – or is that just me?

27. 55 minutes. Hard work and glad to be home in under a hour. Many of the same comments as others, particularly relating to DEADHEAD. I didn’t understand MI for ‘All available money’ though we may have had it before. Favourites were IRASCIBLE and RANDY.

28. 22:08 which appears to be on the reasonable side in comparison to others. Many misdirections for me though (maybe down to having the current lurgy that’s doing the rounds, that’s my excuse at least and I’m sticking to it) including (but not limited to) a failure to lift and separate Canadian Waterway, looking for somewhere in a theatre that started or finished with END (got that bit right at least), and inventing a tight lipped creature called a SESOMME.

    The NW corner took AGES to unravel, and didn’t know M1 so MIGRANTS was LOI.

    Did know DEADHEAD though, so the BALL didn’t stay in court very long before being replaced with a GAME and a shrug of the shoulders.

    And now I need a lie down

29. DNF, DEADHEADS and ON THE GAME (yeuch) in the SE corner were beyond me as was UNCLEAN and RANDY. Certainly not as much fun as yesterday. Thanks Jeremy for working through this.

30. My 49 minutes doesn’t count because I had PROMISES at 17dn, no good but I put it in and intended to return to it but forgot, and I was yet another on the ball — what is so special about tennis? A golfer or cricketer or participant in any number of sports needs to concentrate on the game. DEADHEAD an unknown except in the gardening sense. Am ashamed to say that I had to use aids for PUREED, which I knew was an anagram of rep due but just couldn’t see — I don’t think of pureeing as breaking down, although it is. Through my stupidity I never understood WATTEAU as for no good reason I was trying to think of a French painter _WATTE_.

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