Times Cryptic 27350

Author   jackktPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic

I needed a little over an hour for this one with several guesses which fortunatley proved to be correct. As I started preparing the blog I still didn’t have all the parsings but I arrived at them whilst writing.

As usual definitions are underlined in bold italics, {deletions and substitutions are in curly brackets} and [anagrinds, containment, reversal and other indicators in square ones]

Across
1 Helicopter heading off, one making short trip? (6)
HOPPER – {c}HOPPER (helicopter) [heading off]. A dead easy start as we had ‘chopper/helicopter’ only a few puzzles back.
4 Piano player ultimately avoids Chopin’s pieces maybe (8)
PRELUDES – P (piano), {playe}R [ultimately], ELUDES (avoids). Chopin wrote a cycle of 24 Preludes covering all major and minor keys, plus 3 others that stand alone.
10 Problem with electricity supply has firm in torment (7)
SCOURGE – SURGE (problem with electricity supply] contains [has…in] CO (firm)
11 Agreement to impose restraining influence on prisoner (7)
CONCORD – CON (prisoner), CORD (restraining influence) following the ‘A on B = BA’ rule for Across clues.
12 Appealed, having switched sides, for subs (4)
DUES – SUED (appealed) becomes DUES when its end letters are swapped over [switched sides]. ‘Subs’ in this context are ‘subscriptions’, ‘dues’ which have to be paid.
13 Artful nude, terribly dishonest (10)
FRAUDULENT – Anagram [terribly] of ARTFUL NUDE
15 Caution about English — result of much study? (9)
WEARINESS – WARINESS (caution) containing [about] E (English). I had no idea what was going on here but I have now found this quotation from Ecclesiastes in the King James version of the Bible which I assume is the reference in question: And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
16 Plant for making mixed drink (5)
SHRUB – Another guess for me here and I so nearly went for ‘scrub’. Collins advises that ‘shrub’ is a mixed drink of rum, fruit juice, sugar, and spice. News to me!
18 The French officer retreats, becoming confined (5)
LOCAL – LA (the, French) + COL (officer) reverses [retreats]
19 Fellow works to produce plan (9)
MANOEUVRE – MAN (fellow), OEUVRE (works)
21 Bit of skeleton encountered west of a Turkish city (10)
METATARSUS – MET (encountered), TARSUS (Turkish city). A group of 5 bones in the human foot.
23 Shopping facility everyone’s found by motorway (4)
MALL – M (motorway), ALL (everyone). The clue follows the ‘on’ rule pattern here (as mentioned at 11ac) although we have ‘by’ instead of ‘on’. IIRC ‘A by B’ can mean AB or BA, but others’ views on this would be appreciated.
26 Ace, endlessly gloomy, has nothing lovingly expressed (7)
AMOROSO – A (ace), MOROS{e} (gloomy) [endlessly], 0 (nothing). In this context it’s a musical expression, most usually translated as ‘tenderly’.
27 Democrat in running to be US President once (7)
HARDING – D (Democrat) contained by [in] HARING (running). President Warren G Harding served barely half a term (1921-23), dying of a heart attack whilst in office.
28 He has batted in cricket match briefly — in struggle for this? (3,5)
THE ASHES –  Anagram [batted] of HE HAS contained by [in] TES{t} (cricket match) [briefly]
29 Male leading Queen, an experienced performer (6)
STAGER – STAG (male), ER (Queen)
Down
1 Orthodox believer possesses half-formed notion (5)
HASID – HAS (possesses), ID{ea} (notion) [half-formed]
2 Claim poet is misguided, having old-fashioned ideas about the stars? (9)
PTOLEMAIC – Anagram [misguided] of CLAIM POET. I didn’t know the word but ‘Ptolemy’ was familiar so I worked from there. I know nothing of astronomy but I gather his theories held sway for many a year until they were discarded in favour of somebody else’s.
3 Make listener listen finally (4)
EARN – EAR (listener), {liste}N [finally]
5 Precious one getting lost somehow gets back (7)
RECOUPS – Anagram [somehow] of PREC{i}OUS [one getting lost]
6 Hiding pain, the Parisian wastes away (10)
LANGUISHES – LES (the, Parisian) containing [hiding] ANGUISH (pain)
7 Crowd departs on journey lacking purpose? (5)
DROVE – D (departs), ROVE (journey lacking purpose)
8 Team on top of list? One could be up against the wall! (4,5)
SIDE TABLE – SIDE (side), TABLE (list). Collins defines this simply as a table intended for placing against a wall.
9 Charlie departing for good in order to get academic award (6)
DEGREE – DECREE (order) becomes DEGREE when C (Charlie) is replaced by [departing for] G (good)
14 Disruptions — music-maker is not playing (10)
VIOLATIONS – VIOLA (music-maker), anagram [playing] of IS NOT
15 Kind of average temperature after spring (4-5)
WELL-MEANT – WELL (spring), MEAN (average), T (temperature)
17 Exposing cleric somewhere in London (9)
REVEALING – REV (cleric), EALING (somewhere in London). Historically part of my own home county of Middlesex.
19 Place for three men in a boat, reported author (7)
MARLOWE – Sounds like [reported] MARLOW (place for three men in a boat). It’s probably helpful here to have only a superficial knowledge of Jerome K Jerome’s novel,  i.e. just enough to realise the answer is going to be a place on the Thames somewhere between Kingston and Oxford. In fact 34 place names along the way are mentioned in the book.
20 No time for stifling expression of disgust, revealing nothing (6)
NOUGHT – NO + T (time) containing [stifling] UGH (expression of disgust)
22 Attempted to get lid off box of delights? (5)
TROVE – {s}TROVE (attempted) [to get lid off]. I wondered about the definition here but the ODO confirms ‘trove’ as ‘a store of valuable or delightful things’.
24 Drink in African camp (5)
LAGER – Two meanings. The second more usually spelt ‘laager’, I think.
25 Destructive fly makes one terrified (4)
FRIT –  Two meanings. The second came up here recently but I didn’t know the ‘frit fly’ defined as ‘any of a family (Chloropidae) of tiny dipterous flies whose larvae destroy grain, esp. a black species’.

76 comments on “Times Cryptic 27350”

  1. Didn’t know the drink at 16ac, or the fly at 25dn, or the reference at 19d.

    Thanks for the blog, and for shedding light on Marlowe particularly!

  2. That should have been closer to 17′, but I wasted 5 minutes dithering over MARLOWE, which I could make no sense of. I’d forgotten the name of the author of ‘Three Men’, but I was sure it wasn’t Marlow(e). Thanks for explaining it. Wondered about the spelling of LAGER, but assumed it was a variant. I knew SHRUB from ‘Our Mutual Friend’, and, although I didn’t know the insect, I did remember Thatcher accusing someone in Parliament of being ‘frit’, apparently to the amusement of the assembled members.
    1. Thanks. Brain not engaged for a moment when transferring notes into blog. Now corrected.
  4. The drink and the fly were unknown but gettable once the checkers were in, and the rest (eg HASID and PTOLEMAIC) seemed to play to my strengths. Ptolemy is important if for no other reason than because it was on his work that influential medieval writers such as Thomas Aquinas and Dante based their model of the universe.
  5. was indeed used by Thatcher (Grantham), ‘frit’ being an East Midlands (Lincolnshire) word, which I grew up with in the playground of the William Alvey School.

    FOI 1ac HOPPER
    LOI 9dn DECREE
    COD 19ac MANOEUVRE
    WOD 25dn FRIT

    Harding may have been a Republican but he sure helped the democrats get Wilson elected, by splitting the Republican vote. And what of Nan Britton? A familiar story?

    47 minutes. This should have been closer to 17 minutes but I wasted so much time!

    Edited at 2019-05-14 03:23 am (UTC)

  6. That was Taft; as the incumbent, he could hardly be called a splitter.
  7. I got a bit irritated with this and checked a few things. Just not what I want in a daily puzzle. Each to their own, I guess. I do agree with vinyl that some of the equivalencies were pretty tenuous.

    jackkt – where did FRIT come up recently? I couldn’t find it in a recent daily with the newly repaired search

    1. Yes, it’s odd that I can’t find it either. I may have been thinking of AFREET which came up at the start of April but I thought it was more recent than that in any case. For all that, for some reason when FRIT came to mind today it felt familiar enough to bung in without further consideration.
      1. I remember AFREET coming up, now you mention it. And I see someone actually used FRIT in a comment, just to prove it exists outside crosswords!
        1. The ‘frightened’ sense was familiar to me, for some reason. Fortunate because the fly wasn’t. The second isn’t in either Collins or ODO, so it’s officially a Mephisto word.
  8. I have no idea why I have FRIT in my list of crosswordy words (in a separate entry from Afreet the djinni), but I’m glad it’s there as I’d never heard of a FRIT fly. That was my LOI, after much searching to find the final letter from STAGER, too, taking me up to 53 minutes. SHRUB was a fairly lucky choice for me, too. The only other one I took ages on was AMOROSO, but at least the wordplay eventually got me there.

    The biblical reference, as usual, flew straight over my head, but it mattered little today.

  9. Stopped after 25′ without putting FRIT in, although it’s an obvious answer. DROVE took a while, only ever seen it in the plural. Ptolemy’s Almagest is the key work. Knew METATARSUS because some footballer or other broke one and it was on the news.

    Thanks jack and setter.

  10. 16:02, with a very large proportion of that wasted on 16 and 25, which spoiled any enjoyment I got from the rest of the puzzle. Double definitions where one of the meanings is gratuitously obscure are just rubbish.
    1. I was sufficiently chuffed at remembering the Thatcher incident (where I read it I have no idea) that it didn’t occur to me how irritated I would have been if I hadn’t.
  11. Like Vinyl I found this a bit odd and like Sotira was mildly irritated by it. It became a bit of a slog. Knew the obscure FRIT from Mephisto Land.
    1. I don’t think we’ve had a single crossword this year where there hasn’t been a clue where everyone has to second guess the eccentricities of the various setters. I see from today’s comments that this crossword too has its fair share of dodgy equivalences. However, I’ve stopped rising to the bait now as I’ve come to the conclusion that the setters actually do it deliberately to generate discussion, probably subscribing to Wilde’s maxim that there is ‘only one thing in the world worse than being talked about. . .’ Obviously, many love the eccentricity, but personally I wish they would stick to commonly accepted definitions, rather than everyone having to scour numerous dictionaries to find possibly the 25th entry under a particular word to justify the answer. It really is unnecessary because the skill should be in the wordplay, not in the definition. Mr Grumpy
  12. 23:41, but should have been nearer 17′ getting stuck in the SE corner having unaccountably misspelt 19d NOUHGT…. and it wasn’t even a typo as I was solving on paper! DNK HASID, FRIT or the US President. ADORING for 26a initially didn’t help either. Grr.

    Edited at 2019-05-14 07:38 am (UTC)

  13. I initially had Metatarsal, which I changed to Metatarsul to accommodate the U- so one error. Plus a typo – HARDIHG. Overall though I got on well with this one and was hoping for a sub 10 minute at one point.

    One point would be enough for my team tonight. Fingers crossed!

  14. I didn’t have a great night’s sleep, so I’m grateful this one played to my strengths. 18 minutes. Mrs T famously accused Denis Healey of being FRIT, and many didn’t know what she was talking about, but it was a word used in my childhood too, so not just East Midlands. I didn’t know the fly, didn’t need to. I didn’t know SHRUB was a drink either, but it was far more likely to be a plant than scrub was. Paul being from Tarsus meant the Turkish city came quickly, although my head was first searching for Ephesus. PTOLEMAIC was second one in after HOPPER. The HASIDim abound in Stoke Newington, which I used to drive through every day. COD to PRELUDES, which I got once I couldn’t make ‘nocturnes’work. I’m going to a lecture by Christopher Lintott this evening on the possibility of there being aliens. He could do worse than look on this site. Unlike others, I enjoyed this. Thank you Jack and setter.

    Edited at 2019-05-14 08:40 am (UTC)

  15. Enjoyed this, must be a wavelength thing I suppose .. certinly didn’t find it a slog. Knew frit but nho shrub the drink and wavered between shrub and scrub before deciding the former sounded more planty
    Much liked the Ptolemaic reference, thank you setter, more please!
    1. Well ‘scrub’ is planty too (low bushes and trees, especially in very dry area) but in my deliberations I decided its definition would need to be ‘plants’ rather than the singular and probably also include a qualifying word to narrow it down.
  16. I’m speeding up again after my head injury – beginning to feel more myself. I also swam a mile in open water last night which has probably woken up the system a bit.

    FRIT was LOI and DNK. I biffed FRET, then FRAT then finally FRIT!

    I was off to a massively accelerated start with HOPPER and PTOLEMAIC and EARN but HASID which was DNK slowed things down a bit. Bottom left was a bit of a dictionary bash effort. MARLOWE jumped out once I had all the lights, but had no idea how it worked. That’s the where the Check button is a saviour!

    I liked this puzzle a lot – plenty of do-ables sprinkled with some DNKs and the occasional fancy wordplay. Nothing too outrageous for a pretender like me. Plenty of good material for the archives including CON for prisoner, which for some reason I’d not seen in a long time.

    Thanks to bloggers and setters!

    Three month challenge: 22/24.

    WS

  17. Went for FRET unfortunately, given some of the equivalences drawn previously, thought it could mean terrified. NHO the fly. Thanks blogger and setter.

  18. No time today, as I am on treeware and have a small, lively charge to monitor. Took a while to put the vowels in the geocentric system, to accept that hassids needed only one S and that LAAGERs could manage without the extra A. Took me guesswork to discover SHRUB is a drink, MARLOW is a place in Jerome’s triumvirate universe, and FRIT is a fly, destructive or otherwise. So a rather odd puzzle, really, with some wilful obscurities to tease and/or annoy.
    When troubles come, they come not alone, but in DROVES. Still wondering about a single drove being a crowd.

    1. If it helps, SOED has: drove (sing) as a (moving) crowd or group of other animals or of people; a horde, a shoal, a multitude.
  19. I quite enjoyed this, despite being held up by SHRUB, my LOI. NHO the drink. I was also delayed by AMOROSO, MARLOWE and TROVE. Didn’t know the fly, but did remember the Lincolnshire FRIT due to MT’s comment to DH. Like BW, I knew Paul came from Tarsus, so my initial biffed METATARSAL was immediately changed to METATARSUS. I agree there was a fair amount of obscurity in the puzzle. 31:18. Thanks setter and Jack.
  20. Like JerryW, I liked this one, all done in 20 minutes with one phone interruption, LOI MARLOWE. No issues with FRIT, didn’t fully understand SHRUB as a drink. CoD METATARSUS.
  21. Frit is also a brand of fly killer. I’ve always remembered it because, in ignorance, I entered fret instead in the first ever Azed competition I entered – many, many moons ago.

    Midas

      1. Quite possibly! Old Timer’s strikes again. It was in the late 1970s.
  22. Not the first time recently that a puzzle has probed the extreme edges of my knowledge/vocabulary. FRIT I knew in the Thatcherite sense, but not the other (I knew there was something lurking in my mind, but I think it must have been KED, which is one of those many crosswordy words which has never really stuck). When I was a barman in my student vacations, I had some older patrons who liked an occasional rum and shrub; a long time since that beverage crossed my mind. Everything else was tricky but fair in my book.
  23. Tricky but fair is how I’d call it too. Good to be reminded of the Jerome classic. He and G & S are funnier in my view than pretty well anything since, bar C.C. Farm. (And maybe sotira.) Good also to be reminded of the lady who could use ‘frit’ with authority. 30’35, enjoyable.
  24. Couldn’t get Marlowe. If you don’t know the plot of TMIAB you’re in trouble with this.
  25. Same as others with FRIT although I also toyed with “brat” as in holy terror and “fret” as in Keats’s WEARINESS and fever. Harrison lasted even less time than HARDING, just about a month. 17.16
  26. 10m 42s today but with fingers very much crossed for MARLOWE (I’ve read TMIAB but didn’t recall any locations), SHRUB & FRIT.

    I was aware of Margaret Thatcher’s famous use of ‘frit’, although some googling revealed that it happened before I was born. https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/105294 (This also seems to indicate that PMQs used to involve almost every questioner inquiring about the PM’s engagements for the day, even when the answer had been given a number of times already… how odd).

  27. I’m sorry, but a manoeuvre is absolutely not a ‘plan’, and violations are not ‘disruptions’. Both had me scratching my head for far too long. In the latter case I even had ‘tions’ as the last letters and the ‘l’ in the middle… but simply couldn’t figure out what word the compiler was driving at.
    1. Not to you, perhaps, but I assume you are not a military man, (or a chessplayer). From the first definition of manoeuvre, in Collins: “a contrived, complicated, and possibly deceptive plan… “
      And for violation, Collins has: “interruption; disturbance” .. which seems close enough to me, especially as Collins has disturbance and disruption listed as synonyms.

      Setter 2, Mr Anon 0

        1. I would be extremely wary of keeping the score-even in humour-of setters v grumps (such as me!) and implying that is somehow a good thing? It’s a case of ‘be careful what you wish for’. There are countless examples where the definitions are tenuous to say the least. The (good natured) discussions on this board prove that, but the setter is usually given the benefit of the doubt. But then consider that this board probably has less than 50 regular contributors (and massive respect to you all for helping to keep the skill going), and also that the ToL Crossword Club usually has less than 200 entries. The top 20 of those are cheaters and therefore not bona fide entrants. The comments board is virtually non-existent. What does one deduce from those figures? I run a crossword pub night, and used to absolutely adore the Times Crossword-the late ‘80s/early ‘90s was the golden period (or perhaps it is because I was younger!). But the day-after-day eccentricity of the modern day setters is gradually killing me off, as I’m sure it is many others judging by the above figures. Once in a while is great, but every day? I’m sorry no. That it’s probably too late to rectify it is the upsetting bit. (Mr not-Grumpy-really-rather-Demoralised)
  28. Marred by not reading 9 dn properly and entering decree instead of degree. Thanks for explaining Ptolemaic, Shrub and Frit, all of which I had to guess. I couldn’t put Marlow on the map, but the name is redolent of Edwardian meanderings on the Thames.
    1. Short extract from TMIAB Chapter XIII.
      From Marlow up to Sonning is even fairer yet. Grand old Bisham Abbey, whose stone walls have rung to the shouts of the Knights Templars, and which, at one time, was the home of Anne of Cleves and at another of Queen Elizabeth, is passed on the right bank just half a mile above Marlow Bridge.
  29. 14:50 and like most, it appears, I was relieved to see that FRIT and SHRUB were both right.

    Jack, your cross-referencing has gone a little awry – in your explanation for 23 you reference a comment made in 10 which was actually in 11.

    In regard to that point itself, on which you invited comment (and usefully so as this can be a handy tip for beginners), the way I understand it “A on B” has to be AB in a down clue and is invariably BA in an across clue. I also agree that “by”, “with” and possibly other prepositions imply no particular order.

  30. I knew Shrub as a concentrated mixture of herbs or fruit, sugar, and a bit of vinegar, which the younger crowd in the US are now using instead of It (ie, Vermouth) in Martinis. (So-called Martinis – real Martinis of course being only gin and it). I made some (thyme and honey; strawberry and balsamic) and found it also mixes well with fizzy water when a non-alcho drink is in order.

    Having the crossers got me all the right letters into the right Ptolemaic orbits, ditto for my usually mis-spelt Manoeuvre. I did this for (almost) the first time on-line, and put my irritation down to pixels vs paper, but reading the comments above maybe it was the puzzle itself that was the root cause.

  31. I know nothing about TMIAB but just found a writer that fitted the checkers and then figured Marlow is a town on a river so why not?
    1. Thanks, K. I just couldn’t see it. Tried to make Stearne fit (I know) but no luck. Also didn’t know Marlow is on a river, so gave up. Need to go back to geography class 🙁
      1. My geography is generally pretty poor but now I think about it I’ve actually been to Marlowe recently: my daughter rowed in a regatta there not so long ago. So I got lucky!
          1. No, she doesn’t take it that seriously, I’m glad to say. It was a schools regatta in Marlow itself.

            Edited at 2019-05-14 03:57 pm (UTC)

  32. ….as I’m in Nottingham to get photos of the University HOPPER Buses – run by Arriva, but you’d never guess !

    Basically, I thought this was a really poor puzzle. Guessed HASID as I’d heard of Hasidic Jews. DNK the fly, but the other meaning got me through.

    FOU HOPPER
    LOI DUES
    COD THE ASHES (a diamond in the dirt)
    TIME 13:35

  33. Aaargh! I worked through this quite comfortably and was reasonably happy until the last couple. I could see (more or less) what was going on with 26a but foolishly put amorous in, which completely messed up 19d. No idea where I got the ‘u’ from – another non-u, I suppose! As I grew up in the Thames Valley and love Upstart Crow, I was VERY cross with myself for missing Marlow/e. No problem with frit, although not commonly used in this part of Leicestershire, and shrub takes me back to the 70s, to winter holidays in the Scillies, where days out were usually rounded off with rum and shrub. Not for me though – I thought it was revolting!
  34. 75 mins but no idea about FRIT. Not heard of the drink either but at least that was guessable
  35. Found this fairly straightforward although mystified by SHRUB. As mentioned earlier I only knew FRIT from Mrs T’s use of it. Apparently an old Lincolnshire usage.
    Off to Iona, the only island in Scottish crosswordland, tomorrow. Will report back.
  36. I did not time my solution, but enjoyed the puzzle. I think I also knew shrub as a drink from Dickens and, like others knew frit as terrified, though was not sure of the fly. I agree that some of the definitions stretched things a bit, but not enough to spoil the challenge.
  37. 45:40. After a fast start the increasing uncertainties took their toll and I ended up crawling over the finish line surprised to get through unscathed. Shrub just preferred as more plant-y than scrub. I knew the terrified meaning of frit and hoped it was a type of fly too. I was a bit hesitant over Marlowe. I saw the film of TMIAB a few years ago and thought Marlow might have featured (my geography isn’t good enough to tell me it’s a place on the Thames) but then I wasn’t sure Marlowe was an author as opposed to a playwright. I suppose one can author plays, my gut instinct though was to associate author with a book or novel rather than a play. Nice to see Warren G in 27ac. I believe he had to regulate.
  38. I got through this in 38 minutes, with a certain amount of biffing, bewilderment and bodging. The biblical quote in 15ac was unknown to me, and simply reinforces my opinion that children ought to be protected from subversive texts like the bible.

    The three vowels (why _do_ the French do that sort of thing?) in MANOEUVRE always confuse me, so it’s as well that the checker from 6d eliminated 4 of the 6 possible options. HASID was an NHO, but I reverse-engineered it from “hasidic”.

    The FRIT fly (which is presumably an even smaller version of the fruit fly, consisting of just the head and abdomen) was another NHO, but I still managed to justify the answer on the grounds that “fly” is a form of ash, often harsh and abrasive and therefore destructive; and a FRIT is also a sintered filter made from coarse particles, and so… well, now that I think of it, my reasoning eludes me. But it was good enough at the time.

    NHO HARDING as a president, SHRUB as a drink, or MARLOWE (or indeed MARLOW), but they all seemed plausible. In summary, all the right answers, but not necessarily for the right reasons.

  39. This took a while, say 30-35 minutes, ending with FRIT, where I certainly didn’t know of the fly. Didn’t understand MARLOWE either so biffed, I suppose you can call it. More like: “That must be it…”, because I didn’t know enough to make sense of the rest of it. Regards.
  40. Thanks setter and jack
    A DNF for me with FRIT unknown and with neither definition to be found in various searches before being directed here by one of them. Did enjoy working my way through the rest of the puzzle though.
    A fair bit of general knowledge required with the Orthodox Jew, Three Men in a Boat and the towns that they visited, Christopher Marlowe, the Ancient Greek astronomer, the 29th POTUS and that ‘terrified fly’.
    Thought that THE ASHES clue was the best from a surface perspective, the clever construction and the relevance of it.

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