Times Cryptic 27308

61 comments on “Times Cryptic 27308”

1. …but ended up struggling with the last few, for a time of 45 minutes. I would definitely send ‘elt’ back to Mephisto, where it belongs.

   If you know anything about 17th-century English history, you should know Prince Rupert. He was a colorful character if there ever was one, fighting for several different rulers in the various wars that were going on.

   1. I agree that ELT should be shipped back to Mephisto, though it was guessable on the basis of the only cryptic parsing that made any sense. It is in the two-volume Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary where it is listed as a dialect word meaning a sow or young pig, with the alternative forms “yelt” and “hilt” rather than “gilt”.
2. I could have had this all done in 21 or 22 minutes, but I chickened out on ELT. It seemed inevitable, but I’d never heard of it (although I did know ‘gilt’), and I spent time thinking of other possible officers. Then I didn’t find it in ODE, and finally Googled it. So the club leaderboard has me at 29:16, but technically a DNF.
   I see, thanks to Jack, that I was thinking of ‘rampant’ when I put in PASSANT; silly of me. I got RUPERT without checkers, but I didn’t biff it; I knew of the town of Prince Rupert in British Columbia–named, as it turns out, after that same Prince.
   BELABOURING may have been my LOI; in my dialect to have a go at X is to give X a try, so ‘belabor’ was far from my thoughts.
3. I finished in about 55 minutes, with GLEBES holding me up as my LOI. I did remember ‘glees’ as songs, but didn’t know, or had forgotten the ‘ecclesiastical grounds’ def. Also missed the parsing of SUBTENANTS (tried vainly to have SUB as a ‘letter’) and the heraldic reference in PASSANT.

   Favourite was ELT – a new word of only 3 letters with gettable wordplay. Couldn’t ask for more.

   Thanks to setter and blogger

4. Apparently “elt” is quite obscure, only surviving in some British dialects… I looked up PASSANT, just to be sure. I didn’t remember the right church premises for the longest time. I didn’t know “having a go at” could have that sense, until it had to. Nice and crunchy.

   Edited at 2019-03-26 04:49 am (UTC)

5. 18:12. Tough, with a decidedly fusty and clerical feel to it that made me think (probably wrongly) of a particular setter. I enjoyed it a lot though.
   I hesitated at the end over ELT but I couldn’t think of any other army officer so I bunged it in and crossed my fingers.
6. I certainly had the same feeling as keriothe about the nature and likely provenance of this one.

   The bits I liked I liked a lot, but I definitely harrumphed a few times, especially when learning the one I couldn’t get — GLEBES. Neither glee as a song nor glebe itself reside in any part of my brain accessible at 6am on a Tuesday morning.

   COD to LIBATION, which was parsable in a way that made me think of my youth in Gloucestershire, where I remember being told that a famous local cricketer — I think Tom Graveney — drove around in a car with the vanity plate I BAT. That may have been apocryphal, but file under “ought to be true”.

7. I didn’t find this too tough as a whole but I got stuck on 5 or 6 at the end finishing with MINITUARISTS which took some time to drag up then sticking in the unknown ELT which I thought of earlier but held off entering in case anything else came to mind.

   Whenever I think of syllabub I’m reminded of my mum’s 60th birthday. We were in a restaurant and my sister asked my mum what syllabub was and all my mum came back with was “fattening”. That’s what to expect from someone who claims to like salad. I still don’t know what syllabub is.

   1. Your mother could have added “sickly” or “cholesterol laden” too ..
8. 48:14 with over half spent on the SW corner where I failed for too long to see the hidden TOSCA, LIBATION, DIVERS and, my LOI, EVE. Maybe I’ll start to remember LION for Hero now! I liked REDUCED but my COD was LAYOUT.
9. DNF with yoghurt etc.
   Note to self: swot up on ecclesiastical terms and dialect for pigs.
   Thanks setter and J
10. Thank you, Jack. I had difficulties with ELT, too. It’s not in ODO or Chambers Online as far as I can see, but it had to be that.
    Regarding TOSCA, I recommend a slim volume entitled “Great Operatic Disasters” by Hugh Vickers. It has, from memory two disastrous but extremely funny final scenes, one involving a trampoline and the other an under-rehearsed firing squad.
    1. Electric Chambers 2003 has it, and I’m sure we’ll be told it’s a regular in the NY Times.
       1. No you won’t.

          1. Well that’s a surprise! Almost every weird 3 letter combination usualy turns up when needed by the setters!

    2. Elt is in my 2014 Chambers iPhone app
11. I found this all quite straightforward…apart from one. I was certain that 3d was ‘BELEAGUEING’, which made 11a impossible.
12. Curious. I thought I was on for a really quick run, with several acrosses going straight in, but the lower half slowed me down.
    PASSANT from chess (en passant in full) where a pawn takes another one in what looks like an illegal move. I thought “moving in a particular direction” sort of worked for that.

    My nemesis nearly came with two to go in the bottom left.
    You’ll have to excuse me, but I couldn’t rid myself of the notion that 24d was SHE. Female? (tick). Bad, not half? SH** (tick, but in the Times?) plus ending in shame? E (tick). Only when DIVERS surfaced did I give that idea up with a tinge of relief.
    17.25, so not really hard for me. Perhaps wavelength?

    1. I started to type SHE as well, on the same basis, before reminding myself that this was The Times and we were clearly in church.
       1. I nearly found the text you were thinking of. Try 2 Kings 18:27 in the King James Version. I think that for me to write it out would probably lead to a deleted comment.
          1. Good grief, that’s an arresting image. I had no idea the bible got that earthy. Thanks
             1. Proverbs 26:11; the Puritans were fond of that one.
             2. It is instructive to see how the many different versions of the bible approach this rather tricky passage (pun!:-) .. I mean, really, “body wastes?” Not one of them improves on the King James version imo. Enter the reference into biblehub.com for a comparison
13. 24 minutes, no real problems, GLEBES my FOI, thought ELT was almost certainly a pig word, googled it after finishing and seems used since 1864 not too obscure. Nearly went astray on 8d with CHIPPIER then saw it was an anagram.
14. I’m ashamed to admit that my revision has let me down—I failed to get 1a, despite having stared at it for the last ten minutes of my hour, and despite “glebe” being on my Big List of Crosswordy Words. I didn’t remember it, and I didn’t remember “glee” for song, either. Glebe came up in September.

    The rest of the puzzle was rather like pulling teeth, too, only at least I did eventually manage successful extractions on the rest of the clues!

    Edited at 2019-03-26 09:06 am (UTC)

15. Like z8b8d8k I set off at a reasonable pace and although I expected a few obstacles later on for once they didn’t appear. I pressed submit with 9.47 on the clock and the screen froze. Closed Chrome, Safari told me puzzle not submitted but wouldn’t display grid, had to clear cookies before Chrome would let me in again to find that my time had decreased. Happy days.
16. Mostly straightforward enough here, apart from the obvious pause to decide whether ELT looked convincing enough to pass the “well, what else can it be” test; and trying to think of what fitted _L_B_S other than ALIBIS. GLEBE was an answer on Pointless as recently as last week, so is certainly a more commonplace word than the pig, but that didn’t mean it sprang to mind without a struggle.

    No problems with Rupert, whom I still remember from very early history lessons covering the Civil War. He was definitely Wrong but Wromantic.

17. All correct in a reasonable time. Helped by vaguely knowing both Glees and Glebes.I didn’t know ELT but the wordplay got me there.

    COD: CHIRPIER.

18. It’s sounding more and more like I need to try this syllabub!
    1. Do so in a good restaurant, and you may survive the experience
19. Didn’t enjoy this. Very old-fashioned and ELT went in with a shrug. Using a word not in either Collins or ODO seems simply perverse in a daily cryptic, when there are several alternatives that could have been used.
    Prince Rupert well known to me from Pepys, who didn’t think much of him: brave, but rash, hot-headed and no proper seaman
20. What a voice Scott Walker had! 39 minutes with LOI the clever MINIATURISTS. I can’t make my mind up whether to give that COD, or DIVERS, or SUBTENANT. As with others ELT went in on a wing and a prayer.I’m usually at home with ecclesiatical clues, although the ANTIPOPE strolling in the GLEBE(S) is a bit strident for a middle-of-the-road Anglican. I’m a bit late in posting today, as last night we were able to raise a few CHALICES of LIBATIONS to youngest son, just accepted for a PhD in high energy Physics at Imperial. There are no MINIATURISTS doing that. He’s all in favour of digging an even bigger round hole under Switzerland. Decent puzzle. Thank you Jack and setter.
    1. Congratulations to your son BW. Excellent achievement!

       Scott Walker’s version of, “The sun ain’t gonna shine anymore” is now an earworm for me.

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoOGsF6bZEw

       1. He’s been good in all musical styles. His self-written Montague Terrace in Blue is excellent, his Jacques Brel stuff amazing, and most of the Walker Brothers catalogue transcends its middle-of-the-road genre. There was nothing not to like.
    2. Congratulations to your son. No mean achievement. On a musical note I went to see Steeleye Span at Darlington Hippodrome last night and had a brief chat with Maddy Prior as she signed my copy of their 50th Anniversary CD. I recently went to see her Ex, Rick Kemp, play at the Twice Brewed Inn in Northumberland. Happy days. They were my favourite band of the 70s. No pics on FB though as photography wasn’t allowed:-( The whole audience made a splendid effort at the refrain of All Around My Hat while the band listened to us:-)
       1. I’m that bit older, John, so wasn’t that into Steeleye Span. A decade or so earlier, I had a Watersons album, which was a traditional precursor. I think I could manage the chorus of All around my hat after a glass of wine. I can remember not being sure if the lover far away was faithful or not, and also if they had or hadn’t! What do you reckon?
          1. It’s a moot point, John, which I hadn’t considered. Going by what Maddy said last night, she tends to change the interpretation of the tales as the years go by:-) For example, when she first sang Black Jack Davy, she thought it a romantic tale. As she got older she saw it as the Lady going for a bit of rough, and now she has grown up children, she sees our titular hero/villain with the attitude, “Keep your hands off my daughter!”
       2. Fine voice Maddy Prior had, hope she still does. Lovely to know she’s still performing. Wish I’d been there
          The Twice Brewed, is that the one up by Hadrian’s Wall? If so it is on the Pennine Way, more or less, and I remember having a discussion in it with a Roman Centurion ..
          1. Maddy’s vocal range has changed and she doesn’t always hit the high notes cleanly, but she’s still very good and establishes a great rapport with the audience. The current lineup does a great job with the old favourites too. Young Jessie May Smart is particularly good on the fiddle. The band is currently on a 50th Anniversary tour, so they may be appearing near you. Maddy also runs courses. Check out http://www.stonesbarn.co.uk The Twice Brewed Inn is up near Hadrian’s Wall. When I went to see Rick Kemp I stayed at the Inn and had a walk up to Sycamore Gap next morning. Didn’t meet any centurions though:-)
21. Well, well — I was definitely on the wavelength today. GLEBES was a quick FOI and it all went steadily from there to an 18 minute finish. ELT was unknown to me (and, it seems, to everybody) but the wordplay insisted on it. I’ve never heard of Prince RUPERT: he’s probably a Remainer. TOSCA was a barely hidden. The cricketing surface of 27a was lovely. And OVERT seems to come round quite frequently and is always as straightforwardly clued as it was today. The only sticky clue for me was the man challenging religious authority. I wanted the solution to be a proper name (someone like Luther or Tyndale) and it wasn’t until the two P checkers were in that ‘pop'[=dad] -> pope became clear.
    Jolly good blog, jackkt. Thanks.
22. 26 min., after realising mutter was mumble. Quite liked the doolally subtenant. Divers chalices sounds like a toast at the end of a synod or something. As a teacher for over fifty years perhaps should apply for a coat-of-arms with dexter forepaw raised.
23. 23 mins. Elt with a shrug. Prince Rupert a write-in, as I taught at Prince Rupert School for seven years 🙂
24. Was Rupert of Hentzau a prince in Transylvania? I can’t remember. Rupert of the Rhine was a skilled engraver and invented something called a “rocker” in that connection. As Tim says, “wrong but wromantic” but something of a rock star among the Stuarts. Slow start but 18.19 finish.
    1. Rupert of Hentzau is fictional Olivia, Zenda/Anthony Hope qv.
       Or for a more modern and significantly better written version, read Flashman by George MacDonald Fraser
25. Pretty much bang on 20 minutes so a bit slow for me but then I do sometimes struggle with the fusty, ecclesiastical style of this particular setter (if it is indeed he).

    For his especial benefit I should also clarify that my time was soup-hindered (Yorkshire Provender chicken and vegetable).

    I remembered GLEE as a song from a previous puzzle and sort of knew that GLEBE had churchy connotations but 1a was still my LOI (I’d even taken the plunge on ELT before that).

    I didn’t think of passant in its heraldic sense and only knew TOSCA as an opera so had to take a few leaps of faith, appropriately enough.

    Thanks for the comprehensive blog Jack.

26. Unlike Pip, I put in CHIPPIER at 8d, intending to go back to it as I wasn’t totally happy with it, but forgot, so I finished up with a pink square. Otherwise I found this challenging but rewarding. GLEBES was my LOI after a bit of alphabet trawling brought back the show GLEE and a vague memory of this meaning cropping up before. LAYOUT was my FOI, but it was ages before SYLLABUB/S came to mind. PASSANT wasn’t a problem, but I couldn’t have given an accurate definition. LIBATION brought a smile and also helped me with MINIATURISTS. The NW was the trickiest bit for me, with ___TENANT opening up the corner, and SYLLABUS providing the breakthrough. 33:24 WOE. Thanks setter and Jack.
27. Anything under 30 mins is a good time for me, so am surprised that some of the speedier crew struggled. ELT was a guess. It helped too that I’ve been reading a book about MINIATURISTS too….
28. Chunky but straightforward. Thanks for explaining Glees. COD Layout, for reminding me of Box and Cox.
29. I loved this puzzle. No real problems – though I had to guess ELT since I’d never heard of the pig. GLEBE went in straight away. I once played an active part in a village group protesting about the church’s plans to sell off their glebe land for housing. As a daughter of the mining valleys I had no idea until then that such a thing as “glebe land” existed. You live and learn. When I was in my early teens in the 1950s I read a historical novel about Rupert. “The Stranger Prince” by Margaret Irwin. A romantic figure – especially when compared to Oliver Cromwell. My girlish heart was quite touched. 28 minutes Ann
    1. I read that one too at that age Ann, and to my amazement I see I’ve still got it although I haven’t looked at it since. Irwin seems to have completely dropped off the radar which is a pity because her stuff is very good. I’m a bit surprised she wasn’t re-discovered with all the Wolf Hall to-do because she was pretty good on the Tudors too.
       1. Yes. Her Tudor books were good. I also read lots by Anya Seton. Do people still read her? I still think “Katherine” is a wonderful book. But imo the greatest is Dorothy Dunnett – who should be a household name along with Hilary Mantel but isn’t. And, of course, the inestimable Georgette.
30. If 4d is supposed to imply that a subtenant has two people in the food chain above them, I would question that? The subtenant has no contract with the landlord-or not in my experience anyway. Their contract is with the tenant, who is also the one liable in the event of default on rent, or breaking terms of the lease etc. And even if I’m (likely) mistaken on this specific issue, in addition it’s quite possible that there will be more than a couple of ‘letters’-eg Freeholder and Head Leaseholder, Agent, Management Company. A needlessly weak clue really. Mr Grumpy
    1. An accurate assessment of the legal position and it also took me a couple of moments to work out what the setter wanted
31. And both of them with 3 letters. I assumed the female was a EWE without really reading the clue, woe is me. And the ELT became EAT for some reason. Otherwise a nice steady solve with DIVERS holding me up for a while,trying to read too much into the clue. I also saw and rejected the female as SHE earlier on. Thanks for the entertaining comments above!
32. ….an ELT PASSANT is quite an appealing thought ! I’m no expert on either husbandry or heraldry, but I didn’t encounter any real turbulence here, despite a slow start.

    ELT is in my Chambers, and I’ve actually played it recently in GrabbyWord.

    FOI MUMBLE
    LOI GLEBES
    COD OBSTINATE
    TIME 13:41

33. Could not get 1 ac. Didn’t twig that part of my address is ‘glebe’, meaning church land. Maybe it was too close to see.

    gah!

34. Thanks Jerry but I did know that!
    1. Yes of course Olivia, sorry .. I can be far too literal sometimes. I am not sure where Ruritania was but I doubt it was as far east as Transylvania. Strackenz, the Duchy where Flashman becomes ruler, and on which he claims Hope based Ruritania, is in Germany. Royal Flash is a fine book
35. 27:58. Found some parts of this quite tough but persevered and got there in the end which is satisfying. Ummed and aahed a bit over 7dn of course. Elt won out over eat in the end on the basis of being more convinced by Lt for army officer than At and eat not really being synonymous with pig (out). Glebe rang enough of a bell for me to put it in at 1ac. Took a while to spot the miniaturists at the end. Passant from wp without even properly considering the Def.
36. I knew Prince Rupert from “Prince Rupert’s drops”. These are made by dripping molten glass into water, and have a tadpole-like shape. They are resistant to being hit with a hammer, but disintegrate instantly if the tail is snapped off.
37. Thanks setter and jack
    Was a bit surprised to see that this appears to be the first appearance of the dialectic female pig in the Times – have come across it a couple of times in both the FT and Guardian puzzles – it was my second in after getting PROVENCE. Did it over several sittings and had more trouble with GLEBES and RUPERT.
    Liked the word play in many of the other clues, especially 26a, 27a, 3d and 16d.
    Finished in the SW corner with the clever DIVERS and tricky EVE (which wasn’t half as tricky once the penny dropped).

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