Times Cryptic 26216

50 comments on “Times Cryptic 26216”

1. ….as I got stuck at the end on ‘off breaks’, as you might expect from a US solver; fortunately, I recalled the recent ‘leg breaks’ eventually. For me, ‘demiurge’ was a write-in, because there’s no such thing as a ‘semiurge’.

   As for The Merchant’s Tale, does anyone remember what it was about? I must have read The Canterbury Tales several times in grad school, as it was one of the twelve topics in my PhD orals, but I can’t remember a thing about that particular tale. It must have been on the bland side.

   1. I wasn’t trying to suggest that ‘semiurge’ was an alternative valid answer, only that if one doesn’t happen to know ‘demiurge’ then ‘semiurge’ fits the wordplay just as well and that it would be kinder when cluing slightly obscure answers to make the wordplay unambiguous. But there’s no rule that setters have to be kind of course.
      1. I see from the blog the last time it came up that the SEMI/DEMIURGE thing caught out Peter Biddlecombe, which I think supports your point!
   2. Far from bland – in fact, quite the fabliau.

      Edited at 2015-09-29 02:28 am (UTC)

2. 40 minutes, but with ‘climbed’ for CRIBBED, a crim of course being something in Georgette Heyer. CAUSER was my last in, as the mombly steed ‘hauser’ impatiently champed at the bit, kicking up the dust in the defile.

   Edited at 2015-09-29 02:29 am (UTC)

3. …failed at 17dn. Must pay more attention next time the topic of subordinate deities comes up in conversation.

   COD GARNERED, as it reminded me of the first time I heard the word, in a poem my grandfather wrote many years ago about his loyal dog. Not a bad poet was my Pop.

   Thanks setter and Jack.

4. did in two parts with a three hour drive in between.

   totally messed up by writing in “holding the wheel” for 1 across (hey lots of the letters are there).

   I had no idea about CAUSER, thought it may be some golf thing over my head, although it couldn’t be anything else. Whenever I see “driver” think of golf not cars in a crossword.

   I had to check whether demiurge or semiurge was right. So I totally agree. Either you know it or you are not going to get it right at better than 50:50. I think when obscure words are clued (and I admit that “obscure” just means words I don’t know) they should have a word play that leads to the answer.

   Took me a time to see how SERGE worked.

5. Only just noticed I was CLIMBED person at 1D. Now I see it I think it is a brilliant clue. If you biff it from the definition and don’t think you will be wrong.
6. I just now noticed that I never did get around to looking up ISOPOD; but it seemed pretty safe. I can’t remember how many of the Tales I read, but the Merchant’s was one, and I can’t for the life of me remember it. But it wouldn’t require blandness for me to forget it, or anything else these days. I was rather chuffed to get 7d, although the enumeration was quite helpful. 19ac my LOI and COD.

   Edited at 2015-09-29 06:59 am (UTC)

7. Right half seemed easier than the left half, but my 17.05 looks OK. Completely fooled by 1d: looking for those two items of furniture to be reversed even after discovering that one of them would have to finish with C. Chambers upstairs? A defunct dictionary perhaps?
   My mental image of a GRAMPUS is of something akin to Tenniel’s walrus in Alice, though I should have known better having a copy of Edgar Marriott’s Jonah and the Grampus. Not as well known as the Albert and the Lion perhaps, but the last line is a cracker.
8. Found this tough, and it took about an hour, with ‘pedigree’ in at 17dn. Was the only thing I could think of that fit…
   Couldn’t even remember which Tale I studied for A-level, never mind what it was about, until I just looked up the storytellers… It was the Franklin’s one!
   1. I hadn’t thought about which one I studied but now you mention it, it was also the Franklin’s. I guess it was on the A Level book list.
9. Getting on Page 1 of the leaderboard with a time of 17 minutes, even so early in the day, tells the story of a tricky solve. I was saved any agonising by at least knowing that DEMIURGE existed, even if I’d have been hard-pressed to define it accurately before seeing the clue. I can see why people who didn’t even have that knowledge might feel the clue was a bit unfair. I was less impressive in my efforts to justify that my bedroom might well have a CLIM in it if I looked hard enough.
10. 11m. I thought this was going to be an absolute stinker, because my first in was 26ac. But the downs proved much kinder than the acrosses and it all came together quickly with checkers in place.
    I certainly read The Merchant’s Tale at university, along with all the others, but my powers of forgetfulness are more consistent than vinyl’s and I can’t really remember any of them.
    I knew DEMIURGE but I agree with Jack that the clue is unfair.

    Edited at 2015-09-29 07:05 am (UTC)

11. Like janie, I saw PEDIGREE from the crossers but thought that it might be a good plan to read the clue. I flinched at ASTEROID being related to stars but Chambers tells me not to worry.
    Thanks setter and jack.
12. A steady solve for me and happy that I knew DEMIURGE which may have come up in a barred puzzle somewhere along the line

    Interesting surface reading at 18A – anybody got a clue what it’s about?

    Fascinated by the folk who have read about the Merchant but now can’t remember him. I can’t remember him either but then I never read the book. Was my time better spent?

    1. I think substituting carry for flog would have been a better surface.
    2. Interesting philosophical question. I have forgotten most of the things I learned at university, so perhaps I should have spent more time in the pub. One thing I do remember is that this wasn’t the course of action being recommended by my tutors at the time.
13. Early solve for me in the mists of Teesdale. 34m but add me to the climbers – a biff too far methinks. So overall a bit of wrestle today with 12a FOI and the creator LOI, though I did have a faint aural memory that demi was more right. Chaucer bland? The Merchant’s Tale is a cracker in my view and I expect Joekobi will feel the same! Good puzzle and blog – thanks to setter and blogger today.
    1. I do indeed; it’s a delight.
14. Back to form today with a pedestrian 27 minutes. I enjoyed the words and many of the clues but was slow to cotton on to one or two of the easier ones. This being a crossword I immediately took ‘tent’ to indicate a red wine, thought the Rhine was a likely western border and tried to engineer a grape variety for making a red ‘German wine’ (now where have I heard that recently?). Only two problems with that – they spell the river differently and the wine in question is Spanish.
15. About 40 minutes but failed by a biffed GRAMPAS. I didn’t parse it when I put it in and with hindsight I should have gone back and done so but I was fairly confident with my misspelling.

    I also didn’t know DEMIURGE and considered SEMIURGE but the former somehow sounded more right to me. I think this was in part due to it sounding like DEMIGOD though I don’t know whether this reasoning is etymologically sound.

    1. According to Chambers the DEMI in DEMIURGE comes from the Greek demos (people), whereas the DEMI in DEMIGOD means ‘half’ and is from Latin via French.

       Edited at 2015-09-29 09:54 am (UTC)

       1. Thanks. Just a useful coincidence then!
16. Guessed DEMIURGE but still don’t quite get it. CAUSER was also entered dubiously. Both are a bit clunky in my opinion.
17. 22:55, held up by putting in ARRANGED for 18a, which gave me trouble with 3d and 18d. 17d my last one in, but I eventually managed to remember there was a word DEMIURGE, although I had no idea what it meant. 19a my favourite.
18. 32.22 after a final few minutes glaring at the checkers for causer. Demiurge, oread (dare I say the word) are words that some know and some don’t, and enough do for not every letter needing to be delivered on a silver tray. Every now and then a bit of general knowledge is needed to rule out a possible alternative (with the oread puzzle there was a clue with a girl’s name within a city’s as I remember – a plausible case could be made for another name and a city that sounded OK). Just saying.

    Edited at 2015-09-29 10:27 am (UTC)

    1. This is just a question of where you set the ‘general knowledge’ bar, of course. The setters and editor of these puzzles do make an effort to ensure that obscure words are solvable from the wordplay: this becomes obvious when solving puzzles where a similar effort is not made (barred grid puzzles or the Club Monthly, for instance). But of course the concept is impossible to define so this is not going to stop happening!
19. Around 40 minutes for this, with a few interruptions. DEMIURGE was no problem once I had the I in place from 21a. My problem was 1d, where I was fixated on CLIMBED for a long time, even wondering if there was a bit of bedroom furniture called a CLIM – sounds a bit Chaucerian to go with The Merchant’s Tale.
20. The Demiurge is the creator of the world according to the Gnostics.
21. I did all but 17 in about 12 minutes but then gave up for lack of time.

    On the plus side, the reincarnation of Dangermouse that started a 50 episode run on CBBC yesterday is really rather good.

    1. My crossword experience and thoughts on the new Dangermouse exactly match yours.

    2. The only question I have on Dangermouse is the obvious “is it on the rigjt channel?” It’s clearly not aimed at the usual audience for Cbeebies.

       1. CBBC rather than Cbeebies, which is aimed at 6-12 year olds, although DM is really for grown ups of course.

          Edit to add that there were even a couple of crossword references.

          Edited at 2015-09-29 03:47 pm (UTC)

22. I had more problems with the cricket clue than the DEMIURGE. One person’s general knowledge is another person’s obscurity. 26 minutes. Ann
23. About 30 minutes, held up by DEMIURGE and CAUSER. I confess I gave up and looked up the, as I find, minor deity. I had also tought of ‘semi-‘ and even ‘hemi-‘, and DEMIURGE looked more likely, but I didn’t know it. I then saw the wordplay for CAUSER without resorting to aids. No problems elsewhere, except the ISOPOD which went in via checker’s and wordplay. Nothing too exciting, though. Regards to all.
24. Went for DEMIURGE on the basis that it’s ‘demigod’, not ‘semigod’, if that makes sense. No other issues, and a pleasant, straightforward solve.
25. Late in the day, after golf and a long lunch, this seemed a slow solve but got there in 45 minutes except for DEMIURGE which required an aid to find. Having read him or her up on Wiki I don’t believe in him so it’s not a fair clue. Plato was making it up.
26. Same sort of experience as many other solvers, but I managed to dredge up ‘demiurge’ very reluctantly from some deep seated grey cells that have not quite died off yet. I think that this is just a result of years trying to solve crosswords: you don’t really know a word, in the sense of being able to define it, but you feel fairly confident that you have encountered it before, however long ago it may have been.
27. 19 mins. Like plenty of others DEMIURGE was my LOI. I was another who was considering “pedigree” because it fitted, but I gave it a lot more thought and when I finally saw where the wordplay was leading me I vaguely remembered I had seen it before, so “semi” and “hemi” weren’t considered. I echo the Dangermouse sentiments.
28. Could someone please help me with ‘apply’ = ‘refer’ in 10 Ac? Just don’t see this.
    Got the answer, but don’t understand the cryptic.
    1. I wondered the same, but one of the definitions of ‘apply’ in Collins is ‘to refer (a person, epithet, etc) to a person or thing’. I’m not sure how you’d use this though!
    2. ODO includes “(refer to) (Of a word, phrase, or symbol) describe or denote …” among its definitions of “refer”, which I think allows you to substitute “applies” for “refers” in the example it gives: “the star refers to items which are intended for the advanced learner”.
29. 12:23 for me. I found this very much a puzzle of two halves, with the top half giving me a hard time and the bottom half proving much easier.

    That included solving DEMIURGE as the third of three successive easy wins (after MORATORIA and CLASSIEST) with no crossing letters in place as I’d decided to work my way right through the downs after getting only COME TRUE from the first six acrosses. Easy enough perhaps if it’s a familiar word, which it should be for those who have a few years of solving Times crosswords behind them.

    1. As far as I can tell DEMIURGE has only come up once in a recent Times cryptic and that was more than 5 years ago, and as has already been mentioned above, Peter Biddlecombe got it wrong on that occasion by going for ‘semiurge’. I’m sure he had more than a few years of solving Times crosswords behind him at the time.
       1. By my reckoning, the two most recent occurrences were in No. 24,629 (30 August 2010) and No. 22,986 (26 May 2005), so perhaps it comes up regularly every five years or so. There’s no excuse for young Biddlecombe’s blunder anyway :-).
          1. Unless that puzzle from 2005 was atypical, things must have been very different back in those days as the completed grid contains no fewer than eight answers that I’d be hard-pushed to define even in the vaguest of terms. But anyway, I doubt that two previous appearances in a little over 10 years of a word that to me doesn’t even look like a proper word, would be frequent enough for it to stick in my mind even if I’d been solving Times crosswords when it first appeared. And obviously the second occasion, when I was around, didn’t register.
             1. I’d forgotten the second meaning of “tambour” (though the clue was enough to jog my memory), but I don’t think any of the other words would have presented too much of a problem at the time.

                I think it’s probably fair to say that there’s been a gradual dumbing-down of the Times crossword over the years.

                1. I’m intrigued, Tony. You often speak as if you remember every single clue you’ve ever solved over the past 30 years, and pull puzzle numbers out of the air as if by magic.
                   Is your memory that good?
                   Do you have a database of puzzles?
                   Or are you exceptionally skilful with Google?

                   Slowish solve today, not on the wavelength – tired. But knew Demiurge (perhaps from a sci-fi book? Sladek or Dick?) so finished in the end, with it and CAUSER last in.
                   Rob

                   1. I have a ‘sort of’ database. Pretty well every day since I retired (in 2004) I’ve transcribed each set of clues (in their natural mixed case) and answers (in upper case) to a text file. If I want to check when an answer has appeared, I simply use a Windows version of the UNIX filter grep.

                      So, for example, I can tell you that CAUSER also appeared in No. 22,920 (10 March 2005) clued by “One making employer subservient to accountant (6)”, and, as a bonus, that CAUSERIE appeared in No. 25,844 (21 July 2014) clued by “Talk about gold chain son ultimately mislaid (8)”.

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