Times Cryptic 25740 – In a tight spot

Posted on Categories Daily Cryptic
This was a toughie and I think I can say that with confidence as at 3:00 AM there are only 6 correct entries on the leader board and only one of them is timed at under 25 minutes by more than a few seconds. After 30 minutes I was seriously wondering if I would ever get through this but I completed it in 1hr 20. There are no particularly difficult answers but the clues are mostly wordy so there’s plenty of room to hide stuff, and there are no 3- or 4-letter solutions – the ones I usually rely on to get me started, nor even a hidden answer. As on the last occasion I blogged a 15×15 we are one letter short of a pangram and this time we are looking for somewhere to place a W.

Across

1 EROICA – I inside CORE (essence) reversed, A. Beethoven’s 3rd Symphony.
4 JAMBOREE – JAM (predicament), BORE (weathered), Etonian
10 HEAD FIRST – HEAD (command), FIRST (premier)
11 CONIC – CON (study), pIeCe
12 MAIN TOP – MAIN (head), TOP (first) – see 10ac. It’s a platform at the head of a main mast, apparently. I’d have called it a crow’s nest but I’m not sure if they are always one and the same.
13 DESPITE – DisagreeablE, SPITE (malice)
14 ROGER – This is with reference to its use as an acknowledgement in radio communications meaning received and understood, so ‘yes’ by extension
15 APPETITE – A, Pensioner, PETITE (dainty)
18 ORGANDIE – ORGAN (instrument), DIE (cut out – as an engine may). On edit: Ulaca’s comment below reminded me that I had planned to mention this was one of very few write-ins for me, the word having come up in Grumpy’s Quick puzzle only yesterday. I was mighty grateful for it on such a difficult blogging day.
20 EMCEEgEM (one of the best), CEE sounds like ‘see’ (spot)
23 SQUIDGE – S (son), QUID (money) EG (say) reversed. A word that’s used quite a lot these days to describe what TV companies insist on doing to end of programme credits. Then they double the annoyance factor by talking over them too.
25 SUSTAIN – US inside STAIN (spot)
26 ICILY sICILY
27 ANNAPOLIS – Anagram of LOAN SPAIN. The state capital of Maryland.
28 EVENNESS – EVENt (match), NESS (point – geographical)
29 HYPHEN – H (husband) inside HYPE (hoax), N (noon). What’s this – indeed!

Down
1 EPHEMERA – E (English), EH (what) inside MP, all reversed inside ERA (time)
2 ORATING – O (old), RATING (man on board – ship)
3 CAFETERIA – CA (about), FETE (fund raiser), AIR (feeling) reversed
5 ANTIDEPRESSANT – Anagram of doctoR ENDS A PATIENT’S
6 BUCKS – BUCK, (blood – spirited young man), S (shillings)
7 RUN RIOT – RUN (pass), RIO (port), T (time)
8 EXCEED – EX (without), CEED sounds like ‘seed’ (sons and daughters)
9 DROP HANDLEBARS – DROP (spot, as in rain for example), HANDEL (composer, with his last two letters reversed), BARS (some music – I think they’re called ‘measures’ across the pond)
16 THEOSOPHY – Anagram of PHOOEY and THiS minus its I
17 TENNYSON – TENNis (game), NOSY (curious) reversed
19 ROUTINE – TIN (money) inside ROUE (ladies’ man)
21 CHALLAH – CHA (tea), HALL (manor house) reversed. Served at Sabbath apparently.
22 ASSIZE – AS (when), SIZE sounds like ‘sighs’ (relieved sounds)
24 DOYEN – DO (party), YEN (long)

62 comments on “Times Cryptic 25740 – In a tight spot”

  1. Agreed … tough going with some answers having to be pried out of the clues with a crowbar. One of those puzzles where you’re grateful for any crossers you can get to help with the next.

    The heart sinks when you see clues like “Platform 10” and “A yes men?” — absolutely no go without some help from the surrounds.

    Several garden paths led up here. Such as: looking for a deletion of a C from DICE in 18ac (does dicing meat count as dressing it? — probably not). And I was sure the “match” in 28ac had something to do with (Rugby) Sevens.

    LOI, however, the always-ugly EMCEE. Then I had to parse it before I felt it OK to turn off the timer. No way I’d have got in under 25:00 for this.

    Emceetee

    1. I agree with you about 12A and 14A but the clue to ROGER isn’t original and once you’ve seen it you don’t easily forget it!
  2. 1’22”, but with one wrong. Doing this online, I wrote the correct THEOSOPHY over the incorrect Acropolis and didn’t notice that the latter had changed to ‘Acnopolis’. Shame, as I know Annapolis, since my daughter and I used to play an interactive, globe-based game that involved identifying state capitals among other things.

    I thought this was a terrific puzzle, with many of the literals well hidden (clue length seldom bothers me). COD to ORATING ahead of JAMBOREE and DESPITE. CHALLAH was unknown and rather tricky I thought, and ORGANDIE last in even though it became the first ‘Quickie’ word to catch me out in just yesterday’s puzzle.

    Edited at 2014-03-21 04:11 am (UTC)

    1. “Eschew” can mean to go without something but doesn’t define whether it’s for better or worse. “Go without” or “Do without” might work but we’d have complaints all day about “issue/eschew” as homophones – though I think we’ve had worse!

      Thanks for your input and please join in again.

    2. I thought of ESCHEW at first, but decided there had to be something more relevant to ‘sons & daughters’ so continued down the alphabet, and got there at last.
  3. I didn’t find this as hard as others appear to have done. An uneventful 25 minutes for me with no major problems along the way.

    I think 25A would be better as “Spot in which one gets American support” – the “might” in the clue is padding really. Other than that some very good clues that I enjoyed solving – thank you setter.

    And well done Jack, that sinking feeling on blogging day has to be experienced to be really understood

  4. . . . so slightly over the half-hour but it obviously wore me out as the Quick Cryptic took almost the same, including the embarrassment of spending a good 10 minutes on the last one in – my own surname.
  5. Found this one tough with not many moments of pleasure. Can’t see anywhere a W could go by only changing one answer, but I think swapping HYPHEN/CHALLAH for WYVERN/CHARLIE would do it.
  6. Ah, to be on the wavelength! 18 minutes but feeling I’d been in a fair fight. I think if I’d checked here first it might have taken longer as I would have treated it as a hard challenge – does that make sense?
    I liked the quirky clues for MAINTOP, ROGER and HYPHEN, though as Jim says, ROGER is a golden oldie. I have eaten CHALLAH often enough in appropriate company and festivity, though I’m peeved by Wiki’s haughty comment “contrary to popular beliefs, Challah bread is not solely a Jewish bread.” Yes it bally is, it’s spelled חלה. Other similar breads are spelled with different orthographies.
    There were a lot of money words here in clues and answers, “money” itself three times, perhaps making things harder for seasoned solvers with autopilot on: capital, fund and bread, for example, don’t point to cash answers. Clever setting?
    CoD split between DESPITE for smoothness and the above mentioned HYPHEN for inducing the broadest smile.
  7. I recently started trying the Times crossword after the Telegraph put its price up to £1.40. Today I didn’t get a single answer. Not one.
    Back to Telegraph for me. Bye.
    1. Have you tried the new Times Quick Cryptic in the Times 2 section? We seem to have lots of newbies interested in this as a stepping-stone to the main Times puzzle. Why not have a go at today’s (#10) and come back here later to read the blog which should appear shortly?

      Today’s main Times was much harder than it often is, and I struggled myself to get started on it.

      Edited at 2014-03-21 10:59 am (UTC)

  8. 20 mins and thankfully all correct after my errors of the last few days. I have no idea how long I would have taken if I hadn’t seen the two long answers at 5dn and 9dn relatively quickly.

    I found this to be a chewy puzzle and there weren’t many smiles as I was solving it, but there was certainly a sense of achievement when I finished it. I found the SE the trickiest quadrant and CHALLAH was my LOI after HYPHEN. I had never heard of MAINTOP but it was obvious enough from the wordplay.

  9. Surely the punctuation mark in 29 is a dash (separating words) not a hyphen (which joins them)?
    1. A dash would usually be longer (see 9ac). What we have at 29 is a hyphen cunningly used as a dash to mislead the solver.
      1. An en dash is the same size as a hyphen. But a hyphen has no spaces either side and joins words.. A dash has spaces and separates words. This is a dash.
        1. In the cryptic reading, it’s neither joining nor separating words, it’s simply being presented as a symbol which you are being asked to identify (hence the “What’s this”). As jackkt says, the surface reading is misleading (as it should be!)
  10. Good blog Jack. 25.42 for me. MAINTOP was the one that I kept having to come back to and wasn’t convinced of until there wasn’t anything else.

    CHALLAH is everywhere here in NYC and with Passover on the horizon especially. It’s not eaten at the seder (that’s unleavened bread) but afterwards. I don’t much like it – too sweet. I’ve only been to one seder and greatly enjoyed it. I think Z is a scholar of Hebrew.

    I feel a bit sorry for Anon having a go at today’s quickie. It’s also a toughie. Glad I wasn’t on blog duty.

  11. 32min: 26ac LOI, as I’d been trying to make IBIZA work until I saw DOYEN.
    I agree with anon that the clue to 29 was a good idea which didn’t work as the ‘-‘ isn’t actually a hyphen.
    1. Sorry, but I disagree. The symbol doesn’t cease to be a hyphen simply because it’s not being used as a hyphen in the clue. It’d be like saying that . is not a full-stop because it’s not at the end of a sentence.

      Edited at 2014-03-21 11:52 am (UTC)

      1. This one could run and run, since I do not think that Jack’s example is a full-stop. It is a point.
        1. What would you write if someone asked you to write a full stop?

          Edited at 2014-03-21 12:36 pm (UTC)

          1. What would you write if someone asked you to write a point? It is the first of 75 definitions of ‘point’ as a noun in Chambers. A full-stop is a particular usage of a point indicating the end of a sentence.

            Edited at 2014-03-21 12:42 pm (UTC)

            1. I don’t know what more I can say. You appear to be taking a cryptic clue too literally
  12. I found it really hard to get going on this one and ended up spending just over 19 mins on it.
  13. 23:21. LOI was the unknown organdie as I didn’t have access to yesterday’s quickie. Maintop and challah also unknown but very fairly clued.

    I needed some of Sue’s tippex at 8d where my first attempt at spelling the answer came out as excede, and at 2d where the man on board was obviously going to be king and the ??A for old man would occur to me later.

    I though it was a pangram as my little row of less common letters to cross off as they arose didn’t include W.

    COD to jamboree and well done to Jack for blogging a tricky one.

  14. I found this straihghtforward and most enjoyable, taking 17:45, feeling rather surprised that others thought it quite hard; things are usually the other way round! All known apart from ‘challen’ but easily gettable from the cryptic.
  15. I’m firmly in the camp that found this tough, taking over an hour. I thought I may never finish so it was satisfying to do so.

    I wasn’t helped by convincing myself early on that the yes man was going to be Noddy.

      1. My candidate was Simon, an acquaintance of Spanish-Jamaican descent, though he didn’t detain me long. Don’t really buy this wavelength thing – all seems a bit Mystic Meg to me – and prefer explanations like spotting the definition early and not getting sidetracked by trying to justify a dodgy answer, and I failed on both counts today. Went to shave and shower after 30 mins which seemed to help, needing another 10 to finish.
        1. This is just a way of saying that the relative difficulty of a puzzle is different for different people. So if I solve a puzzle significantly more quickly/slowly than someone I’m usually about equal to, I would say I was on/off the wavelength. It’s just a shorthand for saying that the way my solving brain works is somehow better suited to the particular style of that setter. I certainly don’t mean anything Mystic Meg by it, but I for one can’t usually identify the reasons for it.
  16. This is poor: the thing on the page is a dash, not a hyphen (though modern typesetting uses the same symbol for both; a hype is not a hoax.
    1. Definition 5 of hype in Chambers is a deception so, not to put too fine a point (or full stop) on it, um, yes it is.

      The thing on the page looked like a hyphen to me, just not in the usual place. If I type bed-ridden thus, then copy the hyphen and paste it here: – is it still not a hyphen?

    2. That was my first thought re hoax but Chambers’ fifth definition is “a deception”. Can’t get too exercised about the hyphen/dash, but if the dashites were asked to draw a hyphen I wonder how many would bother to draw it inside a word to show that it wasn’t a dash?

      Edited at 2014-03-21 04:33 pm (UTC)

  17. About 25 minutes, ending with EVENNESS. I had not met SQUIDGE before, and the entire SW quadrant took me some extra time. I also didn’t equate ‘buck’ with ‘blood’, and normally I would not. I’ll try to remember those. Overall, a challenging puzzle with a lot of excellent clues, my favorite being DESPITE for it’s concise definition. Jack, the ‘spot’ that I defined as ‘DROP’ in 9D was a lot more potent than rain, but to each his own. Thanks for blogging this tough one, and regards to all.
    1. Those of us who follow such things, and those of us who would prefer to avoid them but can’t, would recall that Squidge/Squidgy was James Gilbey’s pet name for Princess Diana.
    2. Despite the word play being fairly obvious, how does “despite” = “for all”?
      1. As in the song by Robert Burns ‘A man’s a man for a’ [all] that’ (so despite when he is poor. Also known in translations into other European languages, eg the German “Trotz alledem und alledem”. ‘Trotz’ translates as ‘in spite of’. Sue S.
      2. Today’s puzzle was harder than I would have preferred on a blogging day but I enjoyed it despite / for all that.
  18. When I finished this toughie I looked at the timer on my iPhone and saw that I had completed it in 0.1s. However my initial excitement at a PB turned to disappointment when I saw that the timer had stopped. So no accurate time but it took about half an hour.
    I found this tough and a little joyless, but pretty satisfying in a ‘no pain no gain’ sort of way.
    As far as I’m concerned this ? remains a question mark even though it’s not attached to a question, so this – is undoubtedly a hyphen. Or a dash.
  19. DNF today with Eroica, orating, organdie, routine, icily and hyphen missing. Hard going all the way.
    Thanks for explaining everything Jack.
  20. I think the only reason I stuck with this brute until I finished it (with aids) is because I didn’t want three dnfs in a week. Either this thing is getting harder or I am beginning to feel my age at last, or its something to do with the fact that the sun is directly overhead as it crosses the equator on its safari to the north.

    Actually I too banged in Noddy 14ac, it just seemed so right. Roger still doesn’t feel right. Hyphen didn’t really give any trouble but then I am not an expert in these matters. Particularly liked 4ac, 3dn and 17dn as (what I call) Ikea clues.

    Not really a fun crossword.

    Happy week-end to all.

    Nairobi Wallah

  21. Well, I mentioned TENNYSON on yesterday’s entry, and here he is, cropping up at 17DN! Psychic, or what? (Definitely what.)

    This was a “not on wavelength” day for me, I kept laying it down and coming back to it, at one point, with the whole LHS blank apart from DOYEN, even contemplating an abject DNF. However, whether teased out with tweezers or manhandled with crowbars, the solutions – eventually – came. Possibly up to two hours, in dribs and drabs throughout the day. Looking back, can’t see why I made such heavy weather of it. Give or take the usual quibbles, well articulated in others’ comments, all the clues fit nicely enough, with no obscurities.

    FOI CONIC, LOI EVENNESS, COD has to be HYPHEN for its sheer ingenuity, although the glorious “old man” misdirection in ORATING and the sarcastic wit of THEOSOPHY run it close seconds.

  22. I don’t think I was on any wavelength out there, certainly not the setter’s; virtually nothing, save ROGER, came without a struggle. No idea of the time it took, but, like Keriothe, I felt a grim satisfaction in having finally brought the thing to its knees. COD, I think to ICILY, or maybe HYPHEN.
  23. 15:38 for me – so not a complete disaster, but nothing to write home about. All perfectly fair, but the clues were just a little too convoluted for my taste.
  24. Time: 84 hours. Or so it felt. I’m glad it’s not just me that found this one tough, and I’m in awe of those souls who finished under the half hour.

    MAINTOP and CHALLAH were unknown to me, and I was expecting to have at least one of them proved wrong. On the one hand, I get a lot of satisfaction from knowing obscure words or constructing them from the wordplay; but on the other hand I do feel cheated when I DNF on account of wilfully obscure words. However, I imagine that CHALLAH is not so obscure to many people.

    All the others looked easy after they’d gone in, but were tough at the time with some clever misdirection. JAMBOREE, BUCKS, EMCEE and many others just failed to materialise without inordinate amounts of thought and an embarrassing amount of alphabet-trawling.

    Still, all’s well that ends well. I can remember a time when, even sober, I’d be happy to get half way through a Times cryptic. Or perhaps it’s my memory playing tricks – it seems unlikely I was sober.

    I enjoyed HYPHEN for its whimsy. I can only hope that this trend continues and that the setter has the guts to include the obvious:

    I’m not on the graveyard shift tonight, which means I’m probably missing all the fun. However, the winner of Accident of the Day has incontestably been decided. It goes to a cycling trumpeter or, perhaps, a trumpeting cyclist. She was, it seems, part of a student-organised event, right up to the moment she cycled into the back of a van. We initially thought she’d lost four teeth, but it turned out she’d only lost three – we found the other one embedded in her palate. That’s what I love about students – they can be so creative when it comes to accidents.

  25. I felt that I had made heavy weather of fhis, so I was rather reassured when I came to the blog and found that others had taken longer than they may have expected.
    Perhaps not a lol puzzle, but very decent clues on the whole.
    (I only used the lol text abbreviation to show how very up to date I am).
  26. Defeated. Badly defeated. Lots of wellHYPHENknown words which I just don’t think of quickly in quite the same sense that the setter used them in. I thought the few clues I got were very tight. (And I’m with the ‘it’s a hyphen’ crowd).
  27. Thank you for this excellent blog. This was my second or third Times Crossword after a couple of years’ break. The first one I attempted baffled me with 1 Across: Defect starts with it.
    I made the fatal error of reading defect as a noun. Felt like a fool. Such a neat clue.

    With this one, I thought 21 down (Bread with tea manor house served up) was Staples, so that left me stuck for a good while and and unable to get Hyphen and Emcee. Got the rest, but laboriously, off and on throughout the week. Did not enjoy it one bit. Also struggled with the Quick Cryptic from the same day. Maybe Fridays’ crosswords are harder than other days. Think I’ll stick with Thursdays.

    1. Welcome, anon, and thanks for your input. Well you certainly don’t lack perseverance, and that’s an admirable quality that will stand you in good stead for cryptic crosswords. It does get easier with practice but there will still be days (or rather puzzles) like this one which set one’s confidence back several pegs.

      We were assured by the previous crossword editor that there is no policy that certain days of the week will be harder than others, and there’s no reason so far to believe that the new editor has changed this. I’m afraid if you are working on the theory that Thursday’s puzzles are on the easier side I assume you have not yet tackled this week’s (25745)which by general agreement was a toughie.

      I hope you will stick around and contribute more adding an identifier of some sort to your messages, or perhaps even opening a Live Journal account (it’s free) and acquiring an avatar.

      1. Thank you very much, jackkt. I will register and sign in with a username. I bought yesterday’s paper with the intention of doing the crossword but haven’t opened it yet. Will do, eventually. I always expect to finish a crossword I start. I just don’t know when!

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