Times Crossword 25,260 – Grrrls Just Wanna Have Fun

Solving Time: About 40 minutes in all, which makes it significantly harder than average, for me at least. 1ac & 1dn went straight in and I polished off the top half in fine style but gradually ground towards a halt in the lower part, especially the SW corner. I have no complaints, and enjoyed several of the clues. Only one word (at 9ac) was actually unknown to me but quite a few were rather out of my way, as it were. I suspect some might struggle, rather

cd = cryptic definition, dd = double definition, rev = reversed, anagrams are *(–).

ODO means the Oxford Dictionaries Online

Across
1 mountain-top – second = MO + UN + spoil = TAINT + work = OP
7 dim – dim(inuendo), a musical term meaning to diminish or quieten
9 riot grrrl – I laughed when I discovered that this unlikely word actually exists, because I can’t imagine what some of our number will make of it. Suffice it to say that this is the first of several words today that are outside my comfort zone to say the least! It’s *(TRILOG(Y)) containing the good old “3 rs”
10 zoned – ZON(K)ED
11 patient – PATENT (leather) containing I
12 Swahili – *(HAILS I W)
13 Urals – (M)URALS
15 Bronze age – *(BEGAN + ZERO)
17 elsewhere – E + college = LSE + W(H)ERE. This took me a while because I am conditioned when I see “East London” to start looking for words with the first letter missing. But this is no cliché, actually quite a good clue I thought
19 see to – the golf tournament can’t start because there are 0 TEES, with “recurring” as the (unsatisfactory, in my eyes) rev. indicator. But they manage perfectly well without tees for all their strokes bar the first ones, don’t they?
20 unicorn – college = UNI + do = defraud = CON containing R. It appears, alongside much other stuff, on the Queen’s coat of arms. The heraldic description in the link provided consists almost entirely of words that will probably turn up here one day or another, to general dismay
22 omitted, hidden rev. that took me far too long to find
24 tweet – “times” = T + T containing “scaled down for scotsman” = WEE. Apparently a tweet is a short message passed on via a computing device or a smart telephone, M’lud.
25 quidditch – change = pound coin = QUID + channel = DITCH. An imaginary game played by a Mr Potter in a popular work of fiction, M’lud.
27 nut – a triple def: fan = aficionado, “something turned when making fast,” ie on a bolt, and food, as in hazel nut. Another tricky little clue
28 rubbernecks – RUBBER + sinks = drinks = NECKS, in keeping with today’s argot
Down
1 mar – sign = Aries = RAM, rev.
2 u-boat – I struggled a bit with parsing this one, though it went straight in after 1ac. It is a TAU cross, (though it isn’t one actually, is it?) containing OB = pupil no longer, all rev.
3 tigress – stray = DIGRESS, with a T replacing the D
4 irritable – another tricky one. Short is the def., sort of light = I(nfra) R(ED) + needle = RILE containing flap = TAB
5 talus – alternate letters of SkUlL pArTs, rev.
6 pizzazz – PI + buzzing = ZZZZ containing A. Another word I don’t use a lot
7 Dunsinane Dunsinane is a rather bleak Scottish hill, rightly Dunsinnan, and the supposed site of Macbeth’s castle. “Visit of Forest” is a disguised reference to the plot of the play
8 midwife toad – crazy = MAD containing I’D WIFE + TO. Cleverly worked surface reading.
11 pause button – pop = PA + milk = USE + container = BUTT + ON.
14 abstinent – *(BEST AT INN)
16 overdrive – OVER + DRIVE(L). It used to be a high gear where the engine was allowed to run 1:1 vs the road wheels, ie not geared down at all. Do they still have such things?
18 Wooster – without = WO + notice = (P)OSTER. Bertie Wooster was famously a member of the Drones Club.
19 stand-in – small = S + brown = TAN + racket = DIN
21 niqab – collar = arrest = NAB containing degree of brightness = IQ.
23 optic – plump = choose = OPT + (S)IC(K)
26 has – mess = HAS(H)

Author: JerryW

I love The Times crosswords..

51 comments on “Times Crossword 25,260 – Grrrls Just Wanna Have Fun”

  1. But a heck of a lot of trouble getting started. Not very fond of the def at 11dn. I suppose it does freeze (picture and sound) … but it’s a bit of a stretch. Equally stumped by the parsing of U-BOAT, though what else could it be given the initial? There will be further complaints about SEE TO (19ac) I fear.

    Away from my Mac until the weekend, so apologies for absence. (Might just have to w[r]angle a Windoze box.)

  2. DNF. Couldn’t get NUT even after I realized it was a triple definition and correctly broke it up. As a result I didn’t see PAUSE BUTTON either (which seems really obvious now, so not sure why).

    So some wonderful words. A word with three RRR in a row, a word with 4 ZZZZ, a word with Q but no U after it. Very inventive. I’ve never read the Harry Potter books, m’lud, but even I’ve heard of Quidditch (I think it is something to do with brooms).

  3. 4D was wonderfully misleading too. I was convinced “needle” was the definition and it I started to write in IRRITATE (having spotted it would start IR) before I realized it was too few letters. Spend a few bemused moments trying to find a version of “irritate” that didn’t require a ‘d’ or ‘r’ on the end so as to match the tense etc.
  4. An outing for the irascible Colonel today! This was a beast. 1hr 50 mins for me (10 minutes to find my first answer!) with 2 and 4 still unexplained when I came here, so thanks for those, Jerry. For all that, I did quite enjoy most of it.

    Edited at 2012-09-05 10:15 am (UTC)

  5. A 30-minute breeze for me, finishing with WOOSTER.

    I wish. I did finish with the character from the books I’ve never read but only after getting a jump-start from the blog on, ahem, 5 occasions, one of which showed me that my ‘zones’ was WRONG!, as John Dunn used to say. Totally zonked now, and off for a lie down.

    Compliments to setter and Jerry, and hats off to McT for a Bolt-like breeze to the tape.

  6. I am no petrol-head but my car, a Hyundai Getz automatic, has overdrive with a button to disengage it in snow or ice, or to provide engine braking going down steep gradients. I guess all automatics have something similar.
  7. Crikey! I stopped the clock on 44:29 to go check whether the impossible GRRRL was for real, since nothing else seemed to work. Obviously I move in all the wrong cirrrcles.
    ELSEWHERE, all my troubles (or at least 20 minutes of them) stemmed from a careless ABSTAINER at 14d, which locked up almost the whole of the left hand side. Check the anagram, stupid!
    My parsing of 11d, until I realised none of the components meant what I thought they meant, included the anatomically dubious and unindicated sound alike of ewe’s butt for milk container. That’s how mashed I was by that stage.
    One of those ferocious workouts where the extreme deviousness of the majority of the defs and plays blinded one to the easier ones. Or one.
    Personal favourite was MIDWIFE TOAD.
    According to the fount of all knowledge, Top Gear, no car since the seventies has an overdrive unless it’s made in China. My Ford automatic has mysterious settings of 1 and 2 alongside the normal letters. My dealer said they were of no interest.
  8. Well now, what to make of this. Could only finish on the hour by using a dictionary to verify the strange grrrl – way beyond my ken. I don’t think 19A really works for the reasons Jerry gives and I’m also not keen on “freezer”. The rest is very good indeed and extremely tough. I reckon anything under 30 minutes is a very good time. Glad this didn’t appear yesterday!
  9. Inspite of the fact that some courses, such as Royal Lytham and St Anne’s, start with a par 3, where some players wouldn’t use a tee, and also that the closest ‘recur’ comes to meaning ‘reverse’ is in its meaning of ‘go back in thought’, I still think 19ac is a decent clue, especially in the context of this puzzle, which, as Paul says, is marked out by its invention. Of course, most solvers will put it in from the transparent literal ‘deal with’, anyway.
    1. I think it’s also absolved by the question mark which raises doubts (as expressed by others here) as to the validity of the idea that no tees would mean no tournament.

      Edited at 2012-09-05 10:46 am (UTC)

  10. Well done to all those who managed this, I was dim today and failed to get several clues even with crosswordsolver. Never heard of grrrl or a midwife toad, but have played quidditch regularly (before waking up).
    19 ac 0 tees – not just the little wooden things, but the teeing grounds are also tees, so I guess this works, although it’s hard to imagine why anyone would try to organise a golf tournament on a course with no tees.
  11. Very hard for me today and technically a DNF without recourse to aids. RIOT GRRRL was an unknown for me and I was not helped by hurriedly bunging in BYGONE AGE without bothering to work it out. My take on 19a is that a golf tournament can’t start until someone has played their first shot. However, I agree with Ulaca that a round could begin on a par 3. Also, there is no requirement to use a tee whether on a par 3 or not. There was a chap at my local club (Felixstowe Ferry) who never used a tee. He would casually throw his ball onto the tee, pull out his driver and crack it from where it landed. I was familiar with NIQAB from my on-line Scrabble playing . Thanks to Jerry for his explanations particularly WOOSTER, NUT and UNICORN.
  12. 44 minutes, but I had to invent COINDITCH and NICAB. A quid is serious spending money, I would have thought, rather than change and surely QUIDDITCH itself is manifestly unmanifest. Whereas, coinditch is a variant of shove ha’penny played on horseback, with the object of getting either the coin or the opposing player in the ditch. LOI was WOOSTER, not having a clue about the Drones. Otherwise, as much fun as a good game of coinditch. COD to PAUSE BUTTON over NUT, but there was fun to be had ELSEWHERE. Speaking of which, I thought 17 must surely be DEBTHOUSE = (USED TO BE +H)* except it fitted with none of the crossing letters I had at the time.
  13. Glad I wasn’t the only one who found this very tough. DNF and had to come here to get NIQAB and QUIDDITCH (thanks to Jerry for what must have been a testing blog). Should have got the former as I realised the solution had to be NAB with some two-letter abbreviation inside, but had never come across this term for a veil before. On the latter i was hampered by being one of – probably – only a handful of people in the UK who have not read any of the Potter books.

    Unlike my fellow golfer, Jimbo, I can’t see anything wrong with 19 ac if you take “tee” to mean not the wooden/plastic peg on which you may place the ball but the teeing-ground itself into which you stick the peg (as in, say, “the 12th tee”). It’s difficult to see how any round of golf, let alone a tournament, could begin without any place to tee off, whether using a peg or not.

  14. After reflection, it may be that it is the use of “recurring” as a reversal indicator that Jimbo is mainly doubtful about at 19 ac, rather than the def of “tee”. If so I’m inclined to agree.
    1. Exactly. The missing tees don’t really worry me. It’s a bit daft but so what. However “recurring” as a reversal just doesn’t feel right. I should have explained myself rather better
      1. It’s not in any of the more usual sources but SOED has: Recur. 1b – Run or move back [Rare].

    2. I also wan’t really complaining about this clue, except for the reversal indicator.
      When I was a lad people made tees from a bit of sand, anyway…
      1. Yes, “recurring” doesn’t – to me at least – convey anything other than the idea of repetition, thus making it unsatisfactory as a reversal indicator. But the setter might have kept quibblers like us at bay by replacing “recurring” with “recurrent”, which my Chambers says can mean both “returning at intervals” and “running back in the opposite direction or toward the place of origin”.

        I too can remember – just – those little tins of sand from which to construct a tee, which I think survived as a a sort of decorative/historic feature on many courses long after the advent of the peg tee.

  15. A masterly blog Jerry. Full marks to the setter for an absolutely befuddling puzzle. 43 minutes. There seemed to me to be a slight US tinge to some of the clues, as in “rubberneck”, “pizzazz” and “zonked”.
    I actually knew “riot grrl” thanks to a daughter who was at GeorgetownU in the 90s – where they were popular. But I let it stew for many minutes, disbelieving that I’d find it in a Times puzzle.

    Dunsinane reminded me of my Alevel English days when my pals and I were “doing” the Scottish play. Someone had a wonderful record of Cleo Laine and John Dankworth singing Shakespeare and one of the tracks had Birnam Forest advancing on Dunsinane. Can’t find the original but here’s a reprise if anyone’s interested.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p33NN7LHNVY

    1. I have the CD. It’s called “Wordsongs” and the track is “Dunsinane Blues”.

      Edited at 2012-09-05 12:24 pm (UTC)

      1. Thanks much Jack. Just found it – wonderful! Here it is and I don’t think it’s such an arcane Shakespearean reference, as Enigma opines infra.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3nelAhuEC8

        You can still know the game without being a HarryP fan (I’m not). Once you have the Q from “niqab” it’s got to be that, or “quadrille” which doesn’t work.


  16. 17.0

    Actually, about half an hour before filing under “Life’s too short”.

    I suppose there’s something to be said for keeping the level of the Times puzzle so unpredictable – it makes it a more plausible challenge when you have to work out the degree of difficulty for yourself. But I’m going to reinstate my former practice of the 30-minute guillotine for Wednesdays and score my effort by number of clues solved!

    [p.s. My Auntie Edna’s cakes are famously inedible.To my knowledge, no one’s ever finished one]

    Edited at 2012-09-05 01:14 pm (UTC)

  17. 28m, so I seem to have been on the right wavelength for this one, but I can’t say I enjoyed it much. I just found too many of the clues to be stretching a bit and there was a bit too much obscurity. It’s funny how this sort of thing can irritate me in the daily puzzle when I enjoy it in Mephisto and Azed. Just a question of expectations, and being a creature of habit, I suppose.
    On the other hand perhaps I’m just in a 4dn mood at the moment because yesterday’s puzzle irritated the hell out of me. Fortunately for everyone else I didn’t get a chance to comment.
    I did very much like RIOT GRRRL (which, for reference next time you use it, can also be spelled RIOT GRRL) and PIZZAZZ.
  18. Taking Big Bertha out of my bag for one last blast, as our Golfing Correspondent says, it’s unlikely that the rectangular (typically) patch of grass is meant rather than the tee peg as otherwise the clue wouldn’t make much sense; the question mark is indeed another arrow in the setter’s quiver.
  19. Riot grrrl? Quidditch? Are esoteric not to say obscure. Dunsinane, I suspect, is a stretch for all but locals and those with an arcane knowledge of Shakespeare. Dnf. And little wonder. Congrats to blogger, one for finishing and two for finishing in 40 minutes.

    Enigma

  20. 26:35 here, with RIOT GRRRL my first one in, although I was surprised to see it! Sad to see some people think one of Shakespeare’s most famous plays, Macbeth, should be considered arcane knowledge, and how a major plot feature of a book series that’s sold nearly 500 million copies and some of the biggest-grossing films of all time should be considered obscure!
    1. I agree that this is far from an arcane reference, but I still think Enigma has a point because the clue is just pure literary GK. If you don’t know this passage of Shakespeare you can’t solve it.
      1. Well, yes, but you should know the passage. I mean, it’s one thing not to know about Illyria or the coast of Bohemia or who didn’t want to descant on his own deformity, but any 6th-grader in my school (Pooter Elementary) knew the story of Dunsinane etc. The G in GK should apply here, I’d think.
        1. As I said it’s far from arcane, but I just don’t think cryptic clues should depend entirely on GK of any kind. There isn’t really anything else to this clue: as far as I can ascertain Dunsinane (as opposed to Dunsinane Hill or Dunsinnan Wood) isn’t even a real place in Scotland.

          Edited at 2012-09-05 04:48 pm (UTC)

  21. I may have set a new record –PW, I suppose. Had 2 left this morning, and was on the verge of reporting in with a double DNF, when, over my second cup of tea, the light dawned, and I finally got URALS (of all things for a LOI) and PAUSE BUTTON. I was extraordinarily slow to twig even to easy ones like ABSTINENT, but I have no complaints, except about RIOT GRRRL. DK NIQAB, and didn’t understand ‘necks’. Anyway, I’m happy I got through it.
  22. About 45 minutes, ending with an aid to look up NIQAB, which obviously I didn’t know. I thought this was hard, but a lot of fun. I was smiling at the GRRRLs, the ZZZZ’s and the PAUSE BUTTON. I didn’t read any Potter but I knew of QUIDDITCH, but it took an impossibly long time for me to see TWEET. I am apparently not digitally inclined enough to see that right away. And I thought ‘recurring’ was OK when I figured it meant ‘coming back’, referring to a thought or an idea, etc. So I applaud the setter for a very inventive effort, and Jerry for figuring it all out. Regards to all.
  23. Did this in dribs and drabs during the day – I seem to recall RIOT GRRRL in a Mephisto a few years ago but can’t find it searching the site. My last in was MIDWIFE TOAD. Lots of good stuff in here, a little frustrating but I really liked SEE TO, UNICORN and WOOSTER
  24. Can’t believe 9. Unforgivable. Can’t stand 25 as an accepted word for game. Unfinished. Some really excellent stuff here but The Times may be losing it.
    In which case the last bastion has fallen and it’s back to the barbarians. Feeling morose today.
    1. Fully agree with above and Enigma’s comments earlier. It seems a tad elitist to assume awareness of Macbeth should automatically equate with a scholarly knowledge of the plot’s subtexts and locations. I have similar reservations about 18D, where the assumption that we should all be familiar with Bertie Wooster’s club is equally dubious. No doubt the setter feels he/she can dispel accusations of stuffiness through the use of wacky modernisms such as 9A. We saw a similar contrasts in 25178 (e.g. PESACH vs. POGOED) – no doubt by the same setter.
      With today’s offering, and the insidious increase in the use of the corny clue cross-reference device (e.g. 25254), perhaps it’s time to just sell up and move to the Gruniad where at least the abuse is for free.
      SJ
      1. I had similar thoughts about 18d. Wodehouse happens to be very familiar to me so it caused me no problems but this clue struck me as perhaps very tough to those without that particular knowledge and I don’t like clues like that. At least it was possible from wordplay, unlike the Scottish Clue.
        On the GRRRL, we will have to agree to disagree. I’d never come across it before but the wordplay was entirely clear and I love these wacky modernisms. Where’s the joy of language if we can’t make up new stuff?
      2. The Grauniad? Never! That, in a nutshell, is what I mean by the barbarians. I have no problem with Dunsinane or Wooster. But still hold that in 25 not even to qualify the game as fictional is kowtowing to a popular (and comparatively worthless) icon; and 9 is a confusion by the classical lexicographer of his art with that of the Urban same, and should not have been taken up in the puzzle.
      3. Fully disagree with anon and Enigma. This is what The Times is, there’s always something obscure that you don’t know in it.

        Mainstays of The Times include biblical knowledge, Shakespeare, obscure European composers and artists, the odd musician and conductor, musical notation, newspaper slang, English poets and writers particularly Brontes and Dickens. As a not-particularly-widely-read engineer, atheist and non-musician with no artistic bent I have little knowledge of all the mainstays listed. So this puzzle is no different in subject matter to the average puzzle as far as I’m concerned. It is harder, but due to the cluing not the answers.

        Rob

  25. 14:32 for me. I was feeling a bit low after my 13:07 yesterday as I could see (from the Times Crossword Club leaderboard) that known Championship rivals (shanson, Jason, neilr) as well as several other solvers had finished ahead of me. However, I thrashed ’em all (and PBiddlecombe!) today so I’m feeling a lot better :-).

    I’ve come across RIOT GRRRL (or some other similar GRRRL) in some other crossword, but I can’t remember which. (The T2 quickie, perhaps? Not Mephisto, I think, since I only do that very rarely.)

    A delightful puzzle, full of clever ideas. My compliments to the setter. I just wish they’d saved it for the Championship.

    7 Sept
    For the record, RIOT GRRRL appeared in The Times Crossword Club’s Monthly Special No. 20081 (June 2007) as the answer to “I got embroiled in profusion of rights and left punk feminist (4,5)”.

    Edited at 2012-09-07 01:00 am (UTC)

  26. …before everyone disappears off to the Guardian, I’d just like to say thanks for all the comments. And most of all to jerrywh.

    I agree that “recurring” is a someone dubious reversal indicator, and therefore apologies for using it.

    No apologies though for any of the rest of it, though whilst having little sympathy with the DUNSINANE objectors, I do agree also that perhaps the DRONE reference to WOOSTER was a tad more obscure. (It would be interesting to define the term “general knowledge”. I sometimes feel it gets used to mean “stuff I didn’t happen to know” 🙂 )

  27. A DNF for me. I was unaware of the location in MacBeth and only got RIOT G_R_L. I just didn’t have a clue what could fit in there!
    I had a chuckle when Boko Fittleworth and Pongo Twisletons’ mate popped into view at 18d. I found this tough and did it in dribs and drabs through the day, but enjoyed it. I was disappointed not to finish, but had no chance of coming up with the 2 I didn’t know. It took me a while to see 11d but I thought it was quite clever. I liked the crazy toad too. John

Comments are closed.