Times 28149 – some strange flavours here, but charming in parts, like quarks perhaps.

Author   piquetPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Most of this puzzle was fine by me, but some of it seemed, well, odd. Hard to put a finger on how, but I thought there were some obtuse definitions (like 13a, 16a)  and bits of wordplay (11a, 4d) that raised an eyebrow. Maybe I just didn’t appreciate the subtleties.
Anyway it took half an hour and there were some jolly good clues too, like 15d, 16d and 23d.

Across
1 Peers slam old report that’s recycled (5,8)
LORDS TEMPORAL – Goodness me, is it the same setter each time or do we have an outbreak of coincidence? Two very recent appearances of Lords Spiritual, and now their less clerical chums. (SLAM OLD REPORT)*.
8 Nothing took effect in late news report (4)
OBIT – O (nothing) BIT (took effect), abbr. for obituary.
9 Spirit level in a mine brought to one working (10)
APPARITION – A, PAR (level) put into PIT (mine), I (one) ON (working).
10 Gardens conveyed in painting — Appian’s first (8)
ARBORETA – BORE (conveyed) inside ART (painting) then A for Appian.
11 Noble philosopher denying Trinity at the end (6)
ARISTO – ARISTOTLE loses his “Trinity” of last three letters. I’m not keen on Trinity for a trio of letters, but it has to be.
13 Note in Rule Ten wrong about competition at court (4,6)
LAWN TENNIS – LAW TEN insert N for note = LAWN TEN, then SIN (wrong) reversed.
16 Wrongdoer renouncing evil — that’s pointless (4)
VAIN – VILLAIN is our wrongdoer, he loses ILL = evil. I can see a pointless attempt is a vain attempt, or more usually, in vain.
17 Land granted that is held between two forces (4)
FIEF – I.E. for ‘that is’ (ID EST) between F and F.
18 Little son carrying weight (10)
SMATTERING – S (son) MATTERING (carrying weight).
20 One leaving whole sheep’s heart in dish (6)
ENTREE – whole = ENTIRE, leave out the I and put in E being the ‘heart’ of shEep.
22 Traveller involved primarily in china and metal (8)
CHROMIUM – china = CHUM, insert ROM meaning traveller and I being first letter of involved. A Rom is apparently a male member of the Romani ethnic group, Roma being plural; (the female is a ROMNI in that language.)
24 Instrument getting fish on line (6,4)
STRING BASS – STRING = line, BASS a kind of fish.
26 Stone work filling in wall (4)
OPAL – OP = work, AL the filling w AL l.
27 Good Scottish man to avoid French island cruise? (6,7)
GUIDED MISSILE – GUID Scottish for good, ED a man, MISS to avoid, ILE French for island.

Down
1 Sailor introduced to African as believer in free will (11)
LIBERTARIAN – TAR our sailor goes inside LIBERIAN an African.
2 Spanish runner clutches at relationship (5)
RATIO – RIO (Spanish for river) has AT inserted.
3 Dumpy, small, unfortunate: close to collapse inside (9)
SHAPELESS – S (small) HAPLESS (unfortunate) insert E (last letter of collapse).
4 Lover that was hardly hunky offers excuse (7)
EXPLAIN – EX (lover that was) PLAIN (hardly hunky, in a vague sort of way).
5 Old man should cover chest in something warm (5)
PARKA – PA cover an ARK).
6 Hound someone to set situation straight? (9)
RETRIEVER – double definition, dog, fixer.
7 Learner driver on two wheels for convenience? (3)
LOO – L for learner, O O for two wheels. My FOI.
12 Measure in sections bending rule time and time again (11)
TRIANGULATE – my LOI, took me a while to see it was an anagram, not ending in T AGE. (RULE T T AGAIN)*. Does triangulate really mean measure in sections? A difficult word to define in a few words.
14 Queen playing Free Bird in six counties? (9)
NEFERTITI – (FREE)* TIT all inside NI for Northern Ireland.
15 Ridicules flowers bought at the weekend? (9)
SATIRISES – IRISES bought on a Saturday, SAT IRISES, ha ha.
19 Welcome account — one saying little about India (7)
ACCLAIM – AC (account) CLAM (one saying little) insert I for India.
21 Powerful symbol used regularly in mezangelle (5)
EAGLE – alternate letters of m E z A n G e L l E. I looked up mezangelle to see if it was a thing, it is, but I am none the wiser from reading about it.
23 Husband to Mathilde perhaps housing old south sea islander (5)
MAORI – Mathilde might be a French lady, if so her husband is son mari in French, insert an O for old.
25 Physicist at last uncovered huge gravitational force (3)
TUG – T (end letter of physicist) UG (hUGe uncovered).

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65 comments on “Times 28149 – some strange flavours here, but charming in parts, like quarks perhaps.”

  1. 28.00. I found this one a bit of a struggle. There were a fair few clues which took quite some persistence to crack. Of course I fell into the remove the last letter of Trinity from a philosopher trap, even though I was sure it was going to be Aristotle leading to Aristo. I found the crossing triangulate and chromium particularly impenetrable at the end and really needed to turn the clues inside out and upside down before finally working those ones out.
  2. 1. A retriever is not a hound. Yeah, yeah, I know ‘hound’ can also mean ‘dog’… but this vexed me.
    2. ‘Triangulate’ does NOT mean ‘measure in sections’ (WTF?). No, niet, nein, non.

    I wasn’t wild about shapeless meaning dumpy, either, but I can live with it.

    Finished in 52 mins, but came away feeling irritated by this puzzle.

    1. ‘A method of surveying in which an area is divided into triangles, one side (the base line) and all angles of which are measured and the lengths of the other lines calculated trigonometrically’.
  3. 66 mins — gave in with 3 to solve, VAIN, TRIANGULATE & ARBORETA. Disappointed. Interruptions don’t help and it was a pm solve. Just excuses really. There’s always ‘tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow …’
  4. ….particularly since a RETRIEVER is no more a hound than I am the Bolshoi Ballet’s prima ballerina. I don’t give a monkey’s what various dictionaries say on the matter — the clue is in the verbs ‘hound’ and ‘retrieve’ which define the roles of these dogs in the field. I suspected the answer early, but refused to believe that Richard Rogan would allow such a disgracefully slack clue through his edit.

    I biffed 3 or 4 others, but lost any real interest long before the end.

    FOI LORDS TEMPORAL
    LOI ARISTO
    COD GUIDED MISSILE
    TIME 11:55

    1. ‘Hound’ had both a specific and a general meaning. The latter is used here. You can refuse to accept this if you like but it seems a little unreasonable to expect the editor to follow your own private version of the English language!
      1. If you can give me an example of the use of ‘hound’ to mean retrieve I might be swayed.

        1. I have no desire to sway you though, you are most welcome to use the language as you see fit. Just don’t expect to impose your stylistic preferences on the rest of us!
          1. And you never attempt impose your stylistic preference on the rest of us! Ah! But of course, you are a Chartered Accountant of long standing!
        2. I’m with you. A retriever is not a bloody hound (or indeed a bloodhound), and it was a crap clue.
  5. 17.43. Interesting to see after a couple of appearances for the lords spiritual, their temporal brethren have made their entry. My last one in was arboreta which took a while figuring out what word fitted between art and a. Didn’t work out Aristo but was confident it was right. I’m with our esteemed blogger in not being convinced of the reference to trinity but I suppose it makes sense.

    I can’t remember seeing mattering too often as meaning weight. It’s a bit of a mouthful for everyday conversation.

    However, still enjoyed the challenge so thx setter and Mr Enlightenment, the blogger.

    1. I think “carrying weight” = “mattering”. I had the same initial reservations as you.
  6. Enjoyed this one, except for EXPLAIN, in which I struggle a bit to equate ‘not hunky’ with ‘plain’. TRIANGULATE raised no eyebrows on the Norm0 visage as far as definition is concerned, ignorance probably being the reason, but I couldn’t see the anagram-fodder at all, so thanks to our blogger for the explanation. 31’35”, which is OK for me.
  7. 16:46 early this evening, in what was a rather clunky solving process on my part. Some excellent clues I thought, plus several others (e.g. 11 ac “aristo” , 4d “explain” and 23 d “maori”) which I found less satisfactory.
    Like many others got off to a quick start with 1 ac “lords temporal” (almost re-appearing like old friends) and 1 d “libertarian”.
    Almost entered “fife” for 17 ac until I re-read the wordplay. More haste….
    Finished with a good deal of head scratching in the NE corner before finally getting 18 ac “smattering” which had been staring me in the face for what seemed ages (so one up to setter there) and then 12 d “triangulated” where I identified the anagrist fairly quickly but had to wait a while to tease out the answer.
    COD 27 ac “guided missile”.
    Thanks to Pip for a concise blog and to setter.
  8. Amused by the idea of Queen playing Freebird – having seen both F. Mercury and co. and Lynyrd Skynyrd at Bristol Colston Hall (as it isn’t called any more) in the mid 70s. Happy days. Today everyone says Freebird is a yawn-fest, but I still love it. The live version goes on for ever! I suppose the setter had to separate (reluctantly) the Free and the Bird or the clue wouldn’t have worked. Saw the Lords straightaway and knew it couldnt be spiritual — for a third time! — so bunged in temporal without really looking at the clue. Held up at the end by aristo, vain, smattering (nice clue) and triangulate. Good fun.
  9. I took the inclusion Lords Temporal as a bit of good humour on the part of the setter and it made me smile, but I found less to enjoy in some of the other clues. Strange that 27a was COD for so many, I really didn’t like “cruise?” as a definition for guided missile and I didn’t much like the stray “gravitational” in 25d, the opposition of “plain” and “hunky” or the vanishing space that’s required in “stone work” if the cryptic part of 26a is to work properly. But “hound” for “dog” is fine by me and I liked the gentle humour of Saturday irises. Thanks all.

    Edited at 2021-12-01 11:47 pm (UTC)

  10. Time: 12.08 – not a particularly good puzzle IMHO, with some rather odd clues – akin to Tuesday’s perhaps? Off to a bad start with Lords Temporal! And what was 3dn’s shapeless to do with ‘Dumpy”! COD – few candidates.
  11. Can’t see anything wrong with SHAPELESS for dumpy

    And unlike others loved the trinity device — clear COD for me

    Cant see anything wrong with hound = dog = retriever. As Keriothe says hound means dog in its general sense. QED

    Of course anything I say is undermined by the worst mistake in living memory. Yup, SATARISES. Not a typo, I vaguely remember thinking flowers might mean arises as in “gets higher”. Off to the dunce’s step for me

    Liked the puzxle

    Thanks Setter and Mr K

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