Times 27,911: Vegan-Unfriendly

65 comments on “Times 27,911: Vegan-Unfriendly”

1. Frankly I’m a bit surprised to have finished the puzzle today. The Concise and Quickie were quite difficult for me. This puzzle had a lot of hard vocabulary, and I think if I hadn’t been on the wavelength I would have struggled mightily. I worked hard on my first pass to get as many clues as I could, so I felt good getting ACUPUNCTURIST and PENTAMETER et al right off the bat. By the end of the puzzle I had enough checking letters to see what the answers should be, even if I didn’t understand them completely. That would be the case for PHOEBE, COMPARISONS, PLUTOCRAT, PANTECHNICONS, etc.

   Thanks, v, for the enlightening explanations of everything I didn’t understand!

2. I found this easier than the quickie where I got stuck so decided to do the 15×15. Got held up at the end since I’d never heard of PHOEBE in the flycatcher sense and never heard of BATISTE at all. But all correct in the end.
3. …that a phoebe was a flycatcher, and that batiste is a fine fabric, I never would have finished, since I biffed them both as my last ones in. I didn’t know pantechnicon, but the cryptic was very helpful. However, I had the wrong end of the stick more than half the time and finished in a disgraceful 48 minutes.
4. I’ll be surprised if I’m the only one who got stuck for a bit because Cleo roughly fits the clue but not the crossers. Otherwise a nice stroll. Thanks v, setter

   Edited at 2021-02-26 04:38 am (UTC)

   1. The muse is Clio, and I was indeed stuck there for a while. I seem to have been stuck everywhere for a while today.
      1. Cleo is an accepted alternate spelling of Clio. Its in the references. Its probably more important that Cleo/Clio is a.muse, not a nymph

         Edited at 2021-02-26 11:16 am (UTC)

   2. Guilty
5. I had all but two answers within my target half-hour but was unable to finish the grid without resorting to aids for the unknown 6ac which then enabled me to make an intelligent stab at the intersecting 8dn, also unknown.

   What is it with The Times and flycatchers at the moment? This is the second time within a week we have been expected to have more than a passing knowledge of its varieties. Who other than twitchers has ever heard of PHOEBE or ‘tyrant’ in this context?

   8dn is a word I vaguely knew but had no idea what it meant, and the wordplay route was hampered by ‘sock’ not being quite the same thing as ‘batter’, the former being more associated with individual blows whereas battering is striking repeatedly and continuously. I’m not saying it’s an error, only that it was enough to prevent me making the connection.

   NHO the odious comparison thing, but the wordplay was unmistakeable.

   My mood this morning is very grumpy having yesterday received the same patronising email Olivia complained of a couple of weeks ago informing me that my Times subscription is increasing. They try to lighten the load by quoting the new weekly cost, but on closer examination it turns out the increase in the monthly sub is 50% plus a penny, and I recall this was exactly the same last time they raised the price. In accordance with a suggestion in the email I contacted The Times to ‘discuss alternative subscriptions’ only to be told that this was already their best offer and ‘the increase is set in stone’. I was also told that if I used the site more than I do currently I’d be getting better value for my money.

   Edited at 2021-02-26 09:57 am (UTC)

   1. “If you used the site more you’d be getting better value” – they’ve got their nerve!
      1. If they gave better value, I’d use the site more.
6. Not having heard of RED SHIFT I went for RED SKIRT which seemed a perfectly plausible thing for a star to have. As such I’m not too frustrated at my error. I thought I was doing well to have avoided the tempting biff of “tee shirt”.
   1. Sadly , I didn’t !
   2. By chance yesterday I was reading a book which mentioned RED SHIFT, and I thought you could clue that with communist dress, without getting to what definition you might use. So it went straight in. Red shift most famous as being correlated with distance from earth by Hubble in the 1920s, proving the universe is expanding, and showing just how wrong Einstein was in his first, disastrous guess at general relativity in 1915.
7. I liked this puzzle, mostly because I liked the grid. It didn’t box you in so if you got one clue it could lead on to others in another part of the forest.
   For a puzzle like that 45m is good for me. Must be at the peak of whatever rhythmic cycle governs the ability to spot words.
   FOI: BUFFOONS
   LOI: The PHOEBE/BATISTE crossing plus RED SHIFT.
   I had never heard of any of those but figured SHIFT fitted better than skirt or shirt and worked out the other two all by my little self ‘sans’ aids!
   To back up what Jack, who is understandably grumpy, said, Lexico defines PHOEBE as an ‘American Tyrant Flycatcher’. Why is it a tyrant?
   COD to FOUNDATIONS. I’m not always good at spotting those substitution clues.
8. (Build me up)
   Buttercup, baby,
   Just to let me down…
   …Altogether now, you know you want to.
   25 mins pre-brekker left the Phoebe/Batiste combo. Another 5 to nail those two.
   Otherwise no dramas.
   Thanks setter and V.
9. Delighted to see the RED SHIFT
   (For an astro-nowt that was a gift!)
   Then I stepped on a turd
   And discovered a bird
   So obscure that it had to be biffed

10. 48 mins but had TEE SHIRT for a while before banging in RED SHIRT. Oh well. Same NHOs as others and definitely tricky enough for me.
    FOI OF USE, LOI RED SHIRT. Took a while to see COMPARISONS too. Thanks V and setter.
11. 8:58. Another RED SKIRT here: seemed a reasonably plausible term for a ring of red light round a star. Better than RED SHIRT, anyway.
    Not that it mattered, because I followed the instructions to put BATTE round IS for the unknown 8dn and managed to type BATISSE. Not the kind of error you’re going to notice when you check your answers.
    So I have only myself to blame for this failure but I would nonetheless observe that a setter who clues OBI – an obscure term whichever way you look at it – as a double definition like this has rather lost touch with the concept of general knowledge.

    Edited at 2021-02-26 08:18 am (UTC)

    1. Of course, the way I look at it doesn’t count, but OBI is a chestnut wannabe in the NYT.
       1. I think it has become a chestnut here but I’m not keen on clues that rely on the chestnut factor and don’t stand up in their own right. If I was a new solver I might be discouraged by such clues.
       2. You’re right Kevin but it helps that they always spell the spell “obeah”.
       3. This is exactly my point. OBI is a handy set of letters, particularly for getting a setter out of a hole when the grid throws up O_I. For this reason it’s familiar (in both forms) to the point of chestnut-hood to crossword solvers — including me — but to anyone else it’s likely to appear pretty arcane. That’s what this setter has IMO lost sight of, and as pootle says this is quite likely to put off new solvers.
          1. Not to mention–and I did say ‘the way I look at it doesn’t count’–its chestnuttiness in the NYT is neither here nor there here. There.
    2. Well, it isn’t obscure to record collectors!
       1. Even stranger than crossword solvers 😉
12. Not too hard for a Friday.

    COD.I agree with Verlaine. ARBITRATED.

13. GK to the rescue here, plus some informed guessing like others. PHOEBE sounded right, but NHO. Knew OBI from reading Shogun. BATISTE solely from wordplay.

    RED SHIFT is one of my all-time favourite books. I’m not sure it should be read until you’ve been in (and out) of real adult love.

    COMPARISONS LOI, still thinking about it.

    16′ 22″, thanks verlaine and setter.

14. 20:06 Stuck at the end on PHOEBE and BATISTE. DNK the COMPARISONS adage either, so that derived from wordplay too. I liked RED SHIFT which I learned about in physics.
15. Aaaarrgh. Tee shirt. I knew it was wrong, but still put it in. Why?
    Thanks v.
    (Unteachable old fool is why.)
16. PHOEBE and BATISTE last two in (LTI?), both constructed from wordplay as NHO. Liked COMPARISONS and RED SHIFT.

    Thanks Verlaine – I agree the Alan Garner book is very good.

17. 32 minutes with about 10 minutes spent on LOIs. I eventually ventured PHOEBE and then constructed BATISTE. I didn’t spot that COMPARISONS are odious, so that was a biff. I liked PENTAMETER and COD RED SHIFT, with the Doppler Effect one of the first things to engage my interest in Physics, heard as an express whooshed through a train station rather than seen in the expansion of space. I liked the way that simple equations could provide a satisfactory explanation. Mind you, I find the Physics even more satisfactory when the equations don’t solve! Good puzzle spoilt a little by 6a and 8d. Thank you V and setter.
18. My briefish time suggests an easy fill
    A hasty ARBRITRATION ill-advised
    For whacko words like PHOEBE, BATISTE dwell
    Within the outmost fringe of memory.
    The Poet’s Phoebe was a shepherdess
    And BATISTE hints at French for dunking John
    Yet Shakespeare would have liked the beating verse,
    And giggled to include PANTECHNICON.
    The oderous COMPARISONS would swell
    His bardic bosom with remember’d pride.
    So now my time of fifteen forty three
    Though seeming quick doth flatter to deceive.
    Of MEATINESS this puzzle had its fill,
    Enough to make it Friday-worthy still.

    1. Nice. This prompted me to search for the exchange in Shakespearean pentameter and Baudelairean alexandrines we had many years ago, but I can’t find it now. Probably for the best.
    2. Very good time Z and nice rhyming couplet at the end.
    3. Your time you surely do exaggerate
       For club records show fifteen forty-eight
       But some poetic licence here is meet
       To make your five-fold iambs’ rhyming sweet
       And for a WITCH that lists as eighty-three
       A smile and tip of hat to you from me
       1. My reporting was off as you rightly observe
          I ask for forgiveness I do not deserve
          Iambic tetrameter scansion is worse
          So please accept also this briefness of verse
19. …did this group do a cover version of Myrtilus’s song above?
    Last ones in were PHOEBE and BATISTE, without having heard of either of them. The parsing for PHOEBE worked so well it had to be ( though I thought she might be a character from Greek mythology who caught flies, or a baseball player who caught fly-balls} which led to LOI BATISTE.
    Liked RED-SHIFT. It seems to have had that effect on the completed grids of many of the commentariat.
    25’16”
20. 21.03 but undone by red shift. Didn’t have a clue so the best I could come up with was tee shirt . Not going to beat myself up over that one as I think it requires a level of pre- knowledge which you either possess or you don’t.

    As to the rest no complaints whatsoever. Delighted to get phoebe which I remembered from seeing a black of that ilk in California. Very pretty little bird.

    FOI unaware, LOI comparisons which was my COD.

    Thanks setter and blogger.

21. … that one day one might finish in under ten. 22’20 today, after staring at the big vans’ crossers a bit at the end. Liked the odious lot, the little appreciated judgement clue, the star’s garment. And the z8 pentameters aren’t too dusty either.
22. I slowed myself with CLEO (see above) and also initially rejected ACUPUNCTURIST when my first stab, beginning ACC, mucked up OF USE. This despite one of my daughters visiting an acupuncturist for the first time this week.

    I had little idea of what was going on with AUNT SALLY / BUT, and the definitions for PHOEBE and COMPARISONS.

    I managed to avoid the suntrap by deciding that neither shirt nor skirt seemed to fit the bill and thinking a little more broadly.

23. So close to getting my first full week of correct puzzles but didn’t know (or couldn’t remember) red shift. Bunged in tee shirt despite thinking it was unlikely. Finished in 56 minutes which is good for me on a Friday.

    Had not heard of phoebe or batiste but worked them from the wordplay. Only knew obi from crosswords. Couldn’t see what was going on with foundations. Still do not see that ‘Lot deemed odious’ leads to comparisons. Even if comparisons are odious, where does the lot fit in?

    Spent too long trying to make a word from shoved big vans rather than innocent chaps.

    Although finishing all bar one, there were more unparsed than I usually manage so thanks to Verlaine for all the explanations.

    So, we start again next week on the challenge to finish all five correctly.

24. No trouble with the PHOEBE/BATISTE axis although I thought the bird was some kind of dove for no particular reason. BATISTE aka cambric or lawn thanks to the ever-reliable Georgette Heyer where it’s used for fine hankies, shirts, nighties, petticoats and probably neckcloths too. Speaking of shirts and shifts, like others I spent a long time staring at tee shirt until concluding that it just didn’t work. And while we’re on the subject of FOUNDATION garments I also took a long time to see how that worked. Enjoyed it. 19.43
25. A bit similar to yesterday’s, being very easy till it wasn’t. My stumbling blocks today were all in the NE, and I won’t repeat what has already been said. PANTECHNICONS COD because I bunged it in because it fitted, and never saw the anagram till I got here.
26. Surprised to get this all right in just under 30 minutes, as I didn’t know one of my grand-daughters was a flycatcher, vaguely remembered BATISTE not to be confused with BATIK, knew all about RED SHIFTs and didn’t put in CLIO although was tempted. Liked the Odious comparisons best.
27. My experience was much like Jack’s, in that I had most of the puzzle solved in around 30 minutes, and then spent ages trying to work out 6a and 8d. I eventually came up with the unknown BATISTE from wordplay having spent forever trying to think of a synonym for sock, and then fiddled about with an alphabet trawl with BE and BY as the last 2 letters of 6a, but it wasn’t until I thought of FEE for charge that the penny dropped. I still thought PHOEBE was going to be some unfortunate classical character forced to eat flies until I looked it up after submission. RED SHIFT wasn’t a problem, but COMPARISONS was got from wordplay only. A frustrating solve. Thanks V.

    Edited at 2021-02-26 11:32 am (UTC)

28. Bit slow to get going, but speedy enough when I did. Only hold-ups were MIEN (looking for a name patterned on Mi?en), COMPARISON and a momentary wobble about where to put the H in the big van. 24m.
29. The flycatcher took a long time to be LOI, especially as I’d “helped” myself by assuming the homophone meant it had to end with a Y, and P_O_BY is a really difficult word to complete. Enjoyed constructing the COMPARISONS which was second to last, however.

    I have had the unwelcome e-mail from the subscription department, so I am starting to think my days here are numbered. Perhaps I should be grateful it’s only a 50% jump in price, compared to the 100% it was last time? As previously much discussed, it’s an odd business decision to insist that people who want one specific part of your offer must still have everything that’s on the table and like it; and if they don’t like it, they can just bugger off, apparently. Much as I love my crossword, it’s hard to justify the escalating cost, given that the Crossword Club is literally all I use my subscription for.

    1. How right you are Tim (about separating the newspaper sub from the games sub, as it used to be) – they seem desperate for people to read the content. Comparisons are odious but you can take out a separate sub just for the NY Times games (including crosswords) for $20 per year. I only do their puzzles on weekends so I don’t have one but I read their news content every day so I pay the full freight for that without complaint. If RR happens to read these comments it would be nice to have them passed down the line to the bean counters at Newscorp.
    2. Obviously I couldn’t condone such behaviour but, if you have access to a student (my son would be a theoretical example), you may be able to convince them to get a subscription for £2.17 a month. You could then access the Crossword Club by proxy and make it look like they can do The Times crossword. I’d see it as a selfless act on your part.

    3. I used to read the Times avidly, but hardly ever read it any more. My current daily newspaper is Lockdown Sceptics
30. I might have cracked the half hour barrier if it hadn’t been for that pesky NE. Like many, I didn’t know the ‘Flycatcher’ or the ‘Fine material’, both of which had to go in from wordplay and hadn’t come across the ‘Charm’ sense of OBI. My crossword chestnut of the day was SACKBUT. Despite the fact it appears regularly, I’ve never looked it up before and was interested to see that it’s a sliding, rather than a valved, brass instrument.

    Happy to finish in 42 minutes. Thanks to verlaine and setter.

31. Got off to a good start with the two long ones but then slowed to a trudge. A bit of biffing required. If I ever meet Ms Phoebe Batiste, I will give her a long hard stare.
    1. My apologies. In my fit of contumely I forgot to thank the setter and blogger.
32. Pretty slow for 25 mins. Revisited after lunch and final dozen clues done in about 8 mins. Must have been the cheese sandwich.

    Only held up at the end by COMPARISONS — didn’t get the reference but guessed with all checkers.

33. Flew through at high speed. Even the unknowns Phoebe and batiste went straight in, the former obviously a Greek god-dude who resident classics expert Verlaine would enlighten us on in the blog – her particular punishment involving flies. The second so close to so many famous people (Fulgenico Batista, Gabriel Batistuta, tenniser Roberto Bautista etc.) that it sounded like a word. LOI taking a minute or two to build was comparisons, having never heard of the saying.
    1. And Eldin Baptiste, the West Indian cricketer.
34. Defeated by PANTECHNICONS, unable to form a likely-looking anagram, but I’d already gone for the improbable RED SKIRT after a toss-up with RED SHIRT.
35. Darted about the grid today. 4 acrosses on the first pass, then 2 and 4 down cracked the grid open somewhat for a while. Needed the dictionary for batiste. Did not parse comparisons. Half an hour all told. Had sideline for ringside at first but the down clues sorted it out. Mealiness/meatiness was a toss-up, but on balance meatiness seemed to fit the clueing better. Very enjoyable. I’ve been lucky enough to see a phoebe and could see how it fit the clue, but if I had not seen a phoebe I do not think I would have been able to work it out. I’m not a twitcher, the bird is locally common in its habitat. FOI mien LOI comparisons. All COD’s for me as I’m an occasional tryer at the 15 x 15, so I was chuffed to finish. Thanks V and setter. GW.
36. ….by having TUAC (two unknowns as crossers). I eventually parsed BATISTE, trusted it to be correct, and the LOI could scarcely have been anything else.

    The only PHOEBE I ever came across was a nurse in Florence, SC, who I played for a couple of years on Words With Friends. After that her husband apparently saw me as some kind of threat and blocked me. I suspect she’s on the wards even now driving all the old men crazy !

    FOI ACUPUNCTURIST
    LOI PHOEBE
    COD ARBITRATED
    TIME 10:45

37. Was encouraged to give this a go by Mrs S …
    … and to both of our surprise (hers more than mine I suspect), all done in 32 minutes. Quite a lot of aids used though to finish the puzzle — but when one has double definitions like 7D Obi where neither were known to me I shall treat that as fair. Very different from the other 3-letter clue, 24D Nil, which could have come straight from the QC (and was my FOI).

    Many thanks to Verlaine for the blog, very necessary for me today and all good education.
    Cedric

38. DNF. A 26 min solve with one error. Navigated the tricky Phoebe / Batiste crossers only to enter red skirt. Should’ve paused a little longer over that one as I have heard of red shift but couldn’t see beyond shirt or skirt when solving.
39. Total fail after 40 mins

    Couldnt see PANTECHNICONs; or CHEAPIE. NHO RED SHIFT though I remember a recent clue where I was tossing up between skirt and shirt only to find there was a third garment with the s_i_t checkers. And obvs no idea with PHOEBE and BATISTE.

    Can’t remember the last time I was 5 short and this was seemingly not the hardest

    And my twin did it in 25 mins! 😬🙂

    I did get MEATINESS …😀

    Thanks excellent blogger and setter

40. DNF in about 40 minutes. Everything but PHOEBE, and I could see I wasn’t going to get it. I got BATISTE from the wordplay, but FEE BEE was a step too far.
41. I don’t care if this has been the easiest 15×15 week since Adam was a boy, having completed Monday through Thursday (I’m conveniently ignoring Monday’s Thwart/Toward cock-up), I was determined to give Friday my best shot. Any other week I would have pulled stumps several times, but I persevered and finally finished (the same day that I started 😉) with loi Comparisons. Batiste and Phoebe were unknown (and checked to confirm I was on the right track), but Red Shift was well-known (even if I was initially tempted with Red Giant), as were Sackbut and Pantechnicons. Obi, Mien and Echo were only known from previous failures, but they all count! A special thanks to all the bloggers, and those who have encouraged me on this journey, particularly John Dun. Invariant
    1. congratulations! To infinity and beyond!

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