Times 27697 – Pyrrhic Victory

46 comments on “Times 27697 – Pyrrhic Victory”

1. About 25 mins for me, so on the easy side. Although I’d never heard of RIBSTON apples (and I went for RAGSTON at first). Also nho NAVELWORT (also my LOI) but it couldn’t have been anything else once I had all the checkers.
2. …as I had to construct the words I did not know, Ribston, navelwort, agglutinin. I also was wondering about the two bachelors, but everything seemed to fit so it must be right – and it is.

   John Nash had an interesting problem with his first wife, you can read up on it in the Wiki.

3. oxeye,navelwort,ribston! Failed with the LOI botanical clue, putting RIBITAN ( teasing Ian, as the random boy) for an unknown apple variety. MER at the obligatory two bachelors in OBBLIGATO, though it had to be. Never seen this spelling in 40years playing viola ( not continuously).

   Edited at 2020-06-22 02:31 am (UTC)

   1. ….otherwise you would be in the Guinness Book Of Records!
   2. What spelling have you seen for OBBLIGATO? OBLIGATO?
      1. I see from the dictionary that it can be spelt both ways (b or bb) but i’ve only ever come across the single b version before…
         1. Interesting! I’m a musician as well and have only seen BB! It looks like it’s a legitimate variant.

            Also, the term has a very strange history and range of definitions.

4. Straightforward for me, being happy to have constructed the same unknowns as others (NAVELWORT, RIBSTON, AGGLUTININ) from the wordplay.

   Thanks for the informative blog, U, despite the aspersions cast in my direction. I didn’t know that Steinbeck wrote a novel about Morgan or the current state of the liberal party in the UK.

5. Any hold-ups today came from the same unknowns as others – AGGLUTININ, OBBLIGATO, NAVELWORT and RIBSTON, but all were unambiguous from the cryptic. AGGLUTININ looked worrying at first with all those vowels to find homes for but once they started to go in thankfully there seemed only one right way for them.
   1. I had AGILITUNIN, which I put in very unconfidently, and anyway is impossible. I’m surprised so few have criticised the clueing by an anagram of a word that is probably unknown to most people.
      1. I don’t mind this sort of clue if it’s possible to derive the answer with confidence, and the fact that biology-related words often end -IN and a vague notion that agglutinating might well be something an antibody does was enough for me to get there.
6. A technical DNF here as I gave up on 29ac after two alphabet trawls. I should have thought of blood vessels as we’ve had two or three clues recently in similar vein.

   Rather stupidly I managed to write NAVELSORT at 16.

   I failed to account for TOAT = ‘completely’ at 23ac so thanks to our blogger for that one.

   Everything else came rather easily and I was fully expecting to achieve my half-hour target until the wheels suddenly fell off.

   One answer is in today’s Quickie.

   Edited at 2020-06-22 05:45 am (UTC)

   1. Although the two clues have little in common….
7. 23 minutes with LOI VEIN needing an alphabet search. This was a bit more chewy than it first appeared, and I found it good fun. I got the Arctic explorer of the composer via the Antarctic sea, a circuitous route of some 12,500 miles. COD to TUGBOAT.Thank you U and setter.
8. I was lucky enough to get LOI 29a VEIN more quickly than I was expecting, being a dunce when it comes to missing-first-letter clues, especially with broad definitions like “vessel”, so managed to finish in 31 minutes. This seemed to get progressively harder from FOI 1a POLO downwards.

   NHO 14d AGGLUTININ, 19d RIBSTON or 16d NAVELWORT. Remembered the double-B 4d OBBLIGATO from previous outings, though.

9. …And ghosts of ghosts and last year’s snow
   And dead toadstools.
   30 mins pre-brekker. Not keen on the obscure word anagrams, nor on the Ragston/Ribston guesswork.
   Was this the first/last letter expert again? Primarily, at first, finally, head of, initially, decapitated, ultimately.
   Thanks setter and U.
   1. Thanks myrtilus for the poetic seasoning. Had to look this churchyardy one up.
10. Same as others – NHO RIBSTON, NAVELWORT, AGGLUTININ, LOI VEIN (started an alphabet search but luckily thought of it when visiting F).

    COD: GOVERNOR GENERAL, for ‘up north’ and geographical surface, although I actually think 1dn in the QC is better.

    Friday’s answer: if my favourite car is an Alfa Romeo and my favourite sport is golf, my favourite award is an Oscar (NATO alphabet) and I won it in 2014 (A.R.G.O. spelling the film).

    Today’s question: from car corner in the top left – two five letter car models – the Seat equivalent to the Volkswagen Polo, and any of the three current models of Lotus.

11. I biffed several clues, including 18ac, 23ac, 5d and 22d so thanks ulaca for your explanations.
    As a result I make TONIC my COD.
12. Most of us seem to have had a common experience. The same unknowns causing us to pause and rely on the cryptic to get us home. Decent enough puzzle. Nice blog ulaca.
13. OXEYE was a hopeful guess as I couldn’t parse it and wasn’t 100% sure it existed, but it paid off. Didn’t fully parse PILGRIMAGE or TUGBOAT either, so thanks to the blogger, and my unknowns were the same as johninterred above. Tried putting in “obligatos” for 4d before realising that it has to be spelt with two Bs here.

    Are crusades and pilgrimages the same thing?

    FOI Specs
    LOI Oxeye
    COD Governor General

14. 11:42 with the same unknowns as everyone else – AGGLUTININ, NAVELWORT and RIBSTON constructed from wordplay. Like Jack I failed to separate TO A T to get “completely” in TUGBOAT, otherwise all plain sailing. Funny to see a word in both the 15×15 and QC.
15. 8:48. No real problems today, in spite of all the funny words. I had RAGSTON initially, but 21ac ALIBIS soon put paid to that.
16. Managed to finish despite three unknown words. Myrtilus pretty much summed it up.
17. In under 15 minutes with the joy of (re)inventing words that belong in the Call My Bluff corner of the dictionary. I don’t think my Tesco’s sells RIBSTONS, or if it does it calls them Coxes.

    I was helped with the TO A T bit of the tugboat clue by its appearance in the most recent Listener crossword, which I can recommend (for which read “I finished it”) as a relatively benign example if you’ve got time on your hands.

    Thanks Ulaca for a highly entertaining and informative blog. The pointer to Nash is a delight: he didn’t seem to have much luck with his second wife either if the gossip cartoonists are to be believed.

18. 17.20 . A slow start with litter bin my FOI. Never got much quicker . Navelwort was a new one on me and had to check online to confirm I was right. COD mouth organ but also liked tugboat and vein. Got the latter due to remembrance of a past crossword, always thought of a vein as a channel rather than a vessel.

    Certainly not the usual Monday warm up. Could be in for a gruelling week?

19. Certainly something more pungent than vanilla (which, let us not forget, is a very pleasant, and – as I have been reminded while baking in lockdown – very expensive flavouring) but clearly right up my street. Getting MONEY LAUNDERING and GOVERNOR GENERAL on first look really opens things up. I’d heard of the apple (courtesy of picking up this and many other obscure varieties in the course of quizzing research), but not the antibody or the plant, like everyone else. Fortunately, like everyone else, that didn’t make much difference to my ability to get the answer.

    Glad to find I was also far from alone with my only real pause, as I wondered what on earth a TOAT was…

    Edited at 2020-06-22 09:30 am (UTC)

20. All fair enough. A steady solve on the opening day of this 5 day Test in Edgbaston (constituency).

    COD: GRENADIER.

21. An alibi is not an excuse, but a means of exoneration.
    1. Hm. I’m not convinced the distinction is sufficient:
       excuse: a plea offered in extenuation or explanation, in order to avoid punishment
       alibi: the plea in a criminal charge of having been elsewhere at the relevant time
       Both entries from Chambers.
    2. Also…
       Collins: informal an excuse
       Lexico: informal an excuse or pretext
       Chambers: an excuse for failure (informal)
       1. Not to mention that, in English, an alibi is an excuse.
          1. I for one need the dictionaries here because I would not use ‘alibi’ in this sense. As I use the words an excuse is for something you’ve done, an alibi is for something you haven’t.
22. I have to add myself to the host of solvers who had to construct RIBSTON, AGGLUTININ and NAVELWORT, and finished with VEIN. I had to do an alphabet trawl for VEIN, which seems to catch me out every time it appears. Perhaps it will stick now, although probably not. GOVERNOR GENERAL was a biff from checkers. Have seen OBBLIGATO with 2 Bs several times in these puzzles. POLO and then LOTUS were my first 2 in. Nice puzzle. 25:03. Thanks setter and U.
23. Didn’t spot the TO A T trick, shortened the wrong word at first for the plant, and had INSHORE rather than ONSHORE until spotted the OUT H which gave the instrument.

    Apart from that, no real probs.

24. 8m 56s with the last 2 minutes spent on the improbable-looking AGGLUTININ and VEIN, which required an alphabet trawl or two. Some tricky vocab, and trusting to anagrams is not ideal for those, but not too bad.
25. Clean on the half-hour without fully parsing tugboat or tonic. Held up finally by vein for a time.
26. ….all in VEIN, as, despite finishing correctly on paper, and checking the grid before online submission, I still managed a typo (and because I’m a phone solver I’ve no idea where it was). Not altogether a bad thing, as my NITCH would have been adversely affected by a slowish solve.

    Knew the apple, and the musical direction, but not the antibody or the rock plant.

    Thanks to Ulaca for PARSING GOVERNOR GENERAL and TUGBOAT (I’ve missed “to a T” before !)

    I was also held up with the harmonica by confidently entering “inshore” at 6D before the truth dawned.

    FOI POLO
    LOI VEIN
    COD MONEY LAUNDERING
    TIME 12:27

27. As above, held up by RAGSTON until ALIBI fixed it. LOI VEIN
    Very enjoyable and if not the usual Monday puzzle, it was Monday with 4 NHO’s
28. Enjoyed this, thanks to setter and blogger, tonic went in with fingers crossed and totes missed the TO A T device
29. I actually didn’t find this too hard to start off with – until I came completely unstuck on the VEIN / OXEYE crossers and abandoned ship. Sooo many vessels! And am annoyed with myself about oxeye daisies, because I’ve got loads in the garden. I biffed LIVERWORT for 16d, until I looked at the anagrist again, and I was pretty sure I’d heard of RIBSTON apples – I bet they’d be a lot nicer than any supermarket’s bland Coxes or Galas. So not all gloom and doom in the garden.

    However, I must admit to a fair amount of biffing – GOVERNOR GENERAL, TUGBOAT, PILGRIMAGE and TONIC all went in unparsed. So mostly fun, with a few nice challenges but a frustrating last few minutes. Hope to finish tomorrow.

    FOI Litter bin
    COD Nash
    DNF in about 40 minutes

    Thanks all 😀

    1. According to wiki, the Ribston Pippin “is one of the possible parents of ‘Cox’s Orange Pippin'”. I would have thought it was easy enough these days to confirm parentage, but at least there’s a rumour!
       1. That’s really interesting! Some apples have wonderful names – my brother had a Peasgood Nonsuch in his first garden. The housing estate had been built on an old orchard!

          There’s no doubt that a home grown, freshly picked Cox’s is a thing of delight – it’s just the supermarket ones that have lost their zing.

          On edit: I’ve just discovered – to my great joy – that navelwort is also called pennywort or penny pies! I know which names I prefer. ‘A lovely addition to any salad with its succulent, delicate flavour’ apparently.

          Edited at 2020-06-22 07:05 pm (UTC)

30. DNF. I was comfortably under 20 mins on this so didn’t find it particularly unMondayish but a wretched typo in my govrrnor-general left me with a pink square. As with others Ribston and agglutinin unknown but not difficult to assemble. I quite liked cleaning brass for money laundering.
31. I was held up by long anagrams of words I didn’t know – NAVALWORT and AGGLUTININ. In the end I had to simply plump for the most likely. And this is not the first time I’ve been caught out by VEIN defined as ‘vessel’ It took a long alphabet trawl… But a very enjoyable puzzle nonetheless. 30 minutes. Ann
32. Late to the game but trying to practice finishing puzzles. 30:26.

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