Times 27507 – not ‘1 across’d for too long

78 comments on “Times 27507 – not ‘1 across’d for too long”

1. On a bit of a roll this week.
   Finished with 2 hours on the clock but that includes breakfast at work and other things, so more like 1.25 hrs.

   16 down was the only 1 unparsed, crit = review.
   Thermo took ages to yield, couldnt get away from hydro.

   Also apery, rugged, inhabited and umbrage took a while.

   LOI weser, unknown but guessed from Weber.
   Liked shipowner, COD sulphur.

   Edited at 2019-11-13 06:57 am (UTC)

2. Happy to finish this in under 30 mins. My LOI was THERMOELECTRIC, gradually pieced together once I thought of elect for choose. Like flashman, I couldn’t get hydroelectric out of my head for a while and was trying to work out how to fit “marines” in somewhere. Was glad to know the WESER from studying German many years ago.

   Interesting about the correct spelling of sulfur. It’s been too long since I was at school, as I would have no doubt that it should be sulphur.

   Thanks, Pip, for the blog and to the setter.

   1. I had no idea that sulphur had been thus uglified either. Like you, no problem with the river/composer – actually, a little, as I was trying to invent a river, Elder, Oider, Older of something and even something that could be corrupted into Elgar.

      Thankfully, I spelled WEAK as week, so got one wrong and did not have to suffer the ignominy of finishing below you on your Frankenstein.

      Edited at 2019-11-13 11:31 am (UTC)

      1. Hmm … maybe I should start showing errored entries 😉

         I did actually comment to Mrs S that I not only beat your time today, but did so without errors. I take my (smug) satisfaction when I can, as it happens so rarely.

         1. Please send my regards to the long-suffering Mrs S.
3. …and trilling engagingly originally, she did swing.19 minutes with LOI WREAK after WESER deduced. I think I knew that Weber was a composer but I know the name better from the Weber-Fechner Law. LASAGNA was put in faintly originally until the GRAPESHOT hit me. COD to OSCILLATE. On the easy side.Thank you Pip and setter

   Edited at 2019-11-13 07:21 am (UTC)

4. The top half went in easily apart from OUTRIGGER but I really struggled with much of the lower half. I guessed SULPHUR and HARSH without understanding the wordplay but in the latter case I was confused by thinking the first word in the clue was ‘s t e m’. When ARE they going to sort this out?

   Anybody familiar with the opening lines of Robert Browning’s ‘Pied Piper of Hamlin’ will know of the River Weser:

   Hamelin Town’s in Brunswick,
   By famous Hanover city;
   The river Weser, deep and wide,
   Washes its wall on the southern side;
   A pleasanter spot you never spied;
   But, when begins my ditty,
   Almost five hundred years ago,
   To see the townsfolk suffer so
   From vermin, was a pity.
   RATS….

   I shall never spell SULPHUR with an ‘F’ nor LASAGNE ending with ‘A’.

   Edited at 2019-11-13 08:10 am (UTC)

   1. I’m in total agreement with your final sentiment !
      1. I’d have joined you up until recently when I heard Susie Dent say that she’s relaxed about such things as language is constantly evolving. If it’s OK by Susie it’s OK by me!
5. Not knowing the river or the composer, I went for WASER, changing the G and the N of Wagner. It seemed unusual to be changing two letters for one but I saw no reason that the clue couldn’t work that way (except for the lack of a River Waser).
   1. I gave WASER serious consideration but decided that replacing two letters with one would be a bit off. WEBER rang a vague bell but I wouldn’t have been remotely surprised to find I was thinking of a philosopher or physicist. Not the finest clue ever IMO.

      Edited at 2019-11-13 08:34 am (UTC)

   2. Ditto
   3. I did the same thing, despite having come across Weber while reading Captain Corelli’s Mandolin. That was my LOI, in fact, having spent ages not spotting that 7d was an anagram.
   4. Never heard of the river, might have heard of the composer. A lucky guess.
6. 17:16 … after several minutes of vacillating before taking a punt on the river.

   Question for Germanists: why don’t we call him von Weber, same as the von Trapps (I know, Austrian, but still) or von Richtofen? Is the von just optional in that part of the world?

   1. I think von is an honorific .. indicating a noble ancestry or background. Some who use it have that, and some don’t .. Germany and Austria being republics, no-one is checking
      1. That makes sense. Thanks
   2. Hi sotira, well since von = of I guess it’s a bit like the O’ in O’Casey, or the Mc in McDonald, but in German it seems to be restricted to the toffs. Clearly Weber was a pleb. I have loads of German friends, and needless to say none of them is a von… 🙂 Best I can do as one of the resident Germanists; someone else might have a better answer.
      1. thanks, HR. So it does seem, as Jerry suggests, to be sort of optional, and maybe abandoned at some point in history
7. 30 mins with yoghurt, etc.
   No dramas, but Weser is an awful clue IMO.
   Thanks Pip and setter (might have been wiser).
8. Ghhaaaaar! Another stupid typo. After successfully navigating the only-vague-bell-ringing composer combined with the completely unknown river I managed to write INHAGITED, which would have been fine if this were a crossword for amateur ventriloquists.
   Before that I slowed myself down by bunging in LASAGNE and reading the first word of 17ac as ‘ambitious’ (nothing to do with the font).
   14:12.
9. 16’54”, but with WASER, see above.

   Thanks pip and setter

10. Gave up on this one after staring for ten minutes at my remaining few. I had the first bit of 17a sitting there and couldn’t think of THERM, not helped by not being convinced that “rigour” could mean “ordeal” in 3d. More egregiously, I hadn’t spotted “shot” as the anagram in indicator in 7d, but it would probably all have come to naught anyway, as I didn’t know either the river or the composer. Ho hum.
11. Another easy one. Looked up WESER before writing it in. Agreed, not the finest clue.
12. I think I might change my TfTT name to “One Pink Square”. Today it was Waser – and it looks like I wasn’t alone. 20 mins to do most of this and 10 mins on the last few, including getting stuck in the river. I didn’t know REP as material.

    COD: SHIPOWNER. Nicely disguised anagram I thought.

13. Much impressed with 7dn, an elegantly constructed clue.
    No probs with the Pied Piper’s Weser.
    I was shocked – shocked, I say – to learn that we have once again caved in to Philistines and accepted SULFUR as an official spelling. Not in my house, I’m with Jackkt on this one
    1. Have I misunderstood this clue? The surface strikes me as nonsense.
       1. I think it’s a fine clue. Have you perhaps failed to spot that “shot” is the anagram indicator ?
          1. No I just don’t understand what the surface is supposed to be saying. What’s a person with floating assets and why is a sniper shooting him?
             1. I agree with you K. Having devised the excellent ‘sniper who shot’, why not end the clue with something believable as a surface? Involving a Marine, perhaps? For me what elevates a clue from good to great is the surface – I would suggest Anax as a setter who gets this perfectly.
                1. Sniper who shot Onassis?
                   It’s an open goal really.
                   1. Excellent!!!
    2. I’m phurious too! 😉
       1. Don’t come the clever clogs by trying to bring logic or reason into a discussion of English. That is just rong.
          1. Sough trough!
          2. All rite then.
14. Like jackkt, I breezed through the top half in 12 mins, but was slowed thereafter — mainly by the amphibians (I also got fixated on marines) and by the weird word APERY, which I had never heard, and its component ‘rep’ which was unknown to me. So 44 mins to finish. No problem with the German composer or river. I liked SHIPOWNER, too, as well as the tough wig-wearer at 20d and the petty arsonist (though it was a bit easy). I was less keen on the clunky clueing of -ED at the end of INHABIT. Otherwise, much fun.
15. No problems as I knew the river. Not much to say about this one.
16. 28 mins. SW corner was tricky. Got lucky with Weser, as I lived and worked 2007-2014 in beautiful Rinteln, which is on that very river.
    Thanks pip.
17. I found this not too demanding on the available neurons, and had the top half completed in 10 minutes or so. I slowed a bit down under, with INHABITED, THERMOELECTRIC and OSCILLATE my last 3 entries taking up quite a lot of the remaining time. I knew the composer, Carl Maria Friedrich Ernst von Weber, from time spent listening to Classic FM, where he’s a regular, but didn’t know the river. Google tells us that Carl was a conductor, pianist, guitarist, critic, and one of the first significant composers of the Romantic school. LASAGNE is the Italian plural form of LASAGNA, and apparently is the preferred English usage. I doubt I’ll be converted to the sulfurous spelling though! Nice puzzle. 23:46. Thanks setter and Pip.
18. Could someone please explain why material = rep?
    Other than that, did ok on this one, so it must be on the easier side…
    Roin
    1. Rep is a type of corded cloth. I’ve only come across it in crosswords.
       1. It used to be cheap and easy to buy. I made curtains and cushions out of the stuff in the ’60s when we were strapped for cash. It existed in the real world – not only in crosswords…
    2. Dictionary definition: noun: rep; noun: repp

       a fabric with a ribbed surface, used in curtains and upholstery.

19. Also ties sometimes John.
    1. Thanks Olivia.
20. Lorra lorra fun
21. Thank you both, one for the crossword memory bank.
    Roin
22. Sotira’s reference to punting on the river is exactly what I was doing with this. Thought it was a boat, didn’t know the beam. Otherwise no particular difficulties. The WESER comes in one of my favourite books – Riddle Of The Sands by Erskine Childers. And I remember a particularly unfriendly review of Jesus Christ Superstar that said its creator had too many Bs to rank as a composer. 14,24
    1. Me too! Especially the Epilogue. It was in the end the death of Childers
23. ….”moving back and forth” on this one, and, despite being inside the 10 minute barrier, I found it quite tricky.

    I assembled THERMOELECTRIC backwards, not having initially spotted “the RM”. Thanks to Pip for parsing LASAGNA, which I obviously spelled with a final E, thus making unnecessarily hard work of GRAPESHOT.

    FOI LARCENIST
    LOI DODGY (not “Omahy” !)
    COD SHIPOWNER
    TIME 9:40

24. Found it quite tricky, got there in 35 min., last in apery after feeling convinced no word would go. As with jackkt the Weser brought the Hamelin poem to mind. Rigour may be a touch dodgy for ordeal – ? Ouch – just seen I’ve written larsenist. By the nine gods I swore.
25. A rare sub 20. No unknowns or significant hold-ups – just a steady solve. I have started solving on the club site again this month in an egotistic attempt to eventually gain SNITCH reference solver status. This slows me down a bit as my IPad often hangs for a few seconds while I try to enter a solution.
26. Nice and smooth, and some words which were interesting without being too obscure (as with the definition of “general” knowledde, my definition of “not too obscure” = “words I already happen to be familiar with”). On the subject of knowledge, once more Monty Python came to my rescue; I knew familiarity with “Decomposing Composers” would prove useful in later life. Next up: Christoph Willibald Gluck?
    1. Nice Ninja Turtling!
27. Oh dear – not having a good week. Not only did i put SUPLHUR, but biffed JUDGED instead of RUGGED because I was going over my time target. WESER however was a good guess
28. 15.29 for me today. I raced through the top half in around 5 mins and hoped I might be on for a PB but was slowed down somewhat in the bottom half where thermoelectric needed a bit of working out as did a couple of others. No offence but if the setter’s putting on their Cilla records fetch me a zillion earmuffs forthwith!
29. I found the bottom half way easier than the top.

    35 minutes

    FOI 15dn OCCILLATE

    LOI 6ac WESER knew it but a crap clue

    COD 7dn SHIPOWNER

    WOD 1ac BAMBOOZLE – have you ever been in a bamboo forest?

30. Yes I did the equivalent of throwing away a queen at chess, putting in sailowner for shipowner. What possible excuse? Well after ‘sailing’ through the rest of the puzzle, I was stumped in the northeast. Finally guessed Weser, then – completely failing to spot the anagram – somehow convinced myself that sailowner was a word. Mad. So in at 26’02 with one error, when I should have been 19 minutes and all good. Not a happy solver.
31. Not too hard, but still 50 minutes, held up by 17 ac and 22 dn for a while. I had the …OLECTRIC fairly quickly, but couldn’t for the life of me see what went before it (PIEZ(O)? PHOT(O)? HYDR(O)? all didn’t fit and when I finally thought of THERMO it took some time for the Royal Marines’ penny to drop). APERY was clear except that I also couldn’t see why REP was a material and finally convinced myself it was the dramatic material presented in a repertory theatre. Still, all correct and under an hour, at least. COD to THERMOELECTRIC.
32. of course I meant …OELECTRIC. Can’t one edit comments any more?
    1. You can still edit comments (at least, I can edit mine, using Chrome on a Macbook). If you mouse around just under and to the right of your name, three icons will appear as if by magic, one of which allows you to edit.

       the icon you want is the pencil icon.

       Edited at 2019-11-13 09:34 pm (UTC)

33. No problems here, say 20 minutes, maybe less. LOI was THERMOELECTRIC, which I paused to actually parse. And that was a lot of parsing. Somehow, no difficulty with WESER, but I think that was because I has all the down clues in so the checking letters were sitting there waiting. Regards.
34. I’d never heard of the river or the composer, but decided they were both plausible, and had the added advantage of fitting the checkers. Everything else was reasonably straightforward, and I doff my cap to the setter for THERMOELECTRIC.

    This morning, I woke up and discovered what happens when your vestibular system (that’s the balancy-thing in your inner ear) completely shuts down, thanks to a minor viral infection. Simply by turning your head about two degrees in any direction, you can achieve the same result as by drinking a bottle of spirits and then going to Alton Towers, but more immediately and at less expense. Sorted itself out in about half an hour, but left me with a new sense of respect for those who live like that permanently. (The vestibular malfunction, that is, not the spirits.)

    1. Ooh, Labrynthitis. I had it once many years ago and it is the most peculiar thing. I realised something was wrong when, walking down the street in a quite normal fashion, I suddenly fell sideways into a wall.
       In my case it came and went, and the symptoms were largely confined to a loss of balance and some mild dizziness. For a week or two I just had to be aware that it might strike at any moment, at which point I would fall over. It was actually quite fun in a weird way, once I had a diagnosis and knew it wasn’t anything serious.

       Edited at 2019-11-13 09:48 pm (UTC)

       1. It’s lucky the wall was there to break your fall, or who knows how far you’d’ve gone?
       2. I’m not sure this is not what struck me at Pete’s on March 15, 2018. It is possible that I have the ossification of the inner ear that often results from more severe cases than yours… which can result in total deafness. “Serious” indeed.

          Edited at 2019-11-13 10:58 pm (UTC)

          1. Crikey, I didn’t realise. There were perhaps other contributory factors on that particular occasion but if that’s what you have it must have contributed.
             I don’t remember exactly what the doctor said to me but he was quite unconcerned and told me it would go away of its own accord in a few weeks, which fortunately it did.
             1. I never fall down from drinking, if that is what you are implying.
                I wasn’t diagnosed with labyrinthitis before, but I had had fierce tinnitus for a long time. It may be that labyrinthitis afflicted me only after the fall.
                But it is really a mystery to me why I fell. I wasn’t slurring any words, was I?
                Anyway, my “often” was an overstatement. It is only rarely that labyrinthitis causes hearing loss. And, in any case, I’m not sure (still hoping not) that my inner ear has ossified (tests have been “suggestive,” but not conclusive).

                Edited at 2019-11-13 11:12 pm (UTC)

    2. A few years ago I had a virus which attacked one of the cranial nerves(3rd or 4th I think) and sent me crashing to the floor when I stood up from doing my tax return one Sunday evening. I tried to get up, but to my surprise, found myself on the floor again. I was able to get around the house by crawling and called my daughter(an orthoptist) who had to come round for the next few days and feed me as I daren’t go back downstairs. I then developed double vision, just as I was able to totter to my feet. After about 6 weeks I learned to lurch around again and had an MRI scan, an Epley manoeuvre and various otological tests, and was eventually told that the virus had destroyed my vestibular system on the LHS, but that my brain would adapt if I practiced walking on rough ground and went dancing a bit! I didn’t do the dancing, but except when I’m tired or sick, I manage quite well. One of the remaining symptoms is that If I’m in a confined space, such as a busy pub, I can head for the bar and find myself lurching off to one side, crashing into people, so I have to be careful to give myself a reference point to focus on. Fortunately the double vision corrected itself within a few weeks. Turning the house alarm on and off was tricky with the double vision, until my daughter advised me to cover up one eye whilst entering the code!
       1. There is probably material there for an entire episode of House. But the brain is gloriously adaptable, thank heavens, and the redundancy of having two vestibular systems is handy. Glad to hear things have largely resolved, but you should still consider suing HMRC.
          1. 🙂
       2. It sounds like the 8th cranial nerve of it affected your balance. The 3rd and 4th control eye movements.

          (Julian MK)

          1. Yes, that’s where the double vision came from.
35. Not on the ball today, but didn’t help myself biffing UMPTEEN instead of ZILLION so didn’t see BAMBOOZLE till late on, but it opened up the remaining few.

    Not good on German rivers and not much better on composers so a bit of a punt there.

    Edited at 2019-11-14 01:20 am (UTC)

36. Lasagna is surely one of the pasta sheets that are used to make lasagne (just as a single spaghetto would not be an adequate meal).

    (Julian MK)

37. Never heard of “rep” as a material and never used the word “apery” in my life to date. But figured it out and otherwise OK. Luckily, I did know the river because I certainly didn’t know the composer.
38. Was APERY, after finally realising 27a definition was the suspect, not the city as first put in , making 22d a-e-e , for which the alphabet trawl failed. Our copy of the newspaper here in Oz had the 28a clue incomplete as “ terrible shortage limiting introduction” . It took a while to realise it wasn’t just the enumeration missing, but also the second half of the clue. With the checkers in place it was gettable. In the end all correct in 33mins.

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