Times 27359: Land of Hope and Gloriana, Victoriana, ‘toriana

79 comments on “Times 27359: Land of Hope and Gloriana, Victoriana, ‘toriana”

1. Not at all Fridayish, although there were a couple of DNKs: DO ONES NUT and TON-UP (I remembered TON as some sort of speed-related term). Biffed 9d and 22d; I never did spot the hidden until after submitting. Last in were THIGH & ARIADNE; the latter being really annoying, as I wasted a couple of minutes thinking of something like Myrmidon or Argonaut, until I finally remembered just how the Theseus story went.
   1. You’re mixing your mythaphors! Theseus was sorta contemporary with Jason and co though probably not actually aboard the Argo, but by the time of the Myrmidons only beardy old Nestor could dreamily remember the golden age when men were proper men and could lift really big rocks.
2. Thanks for the super blog and puzzle

   As one of HM’s recorders I particularly admired 17 down with recorder doing double duty to make v clever surface!

3. For once I’m with Kevin on this as this was hardly Friday fare. Took me about 35 mins working from the bottom-up.

   Reason – 1ac was a poor clue IME. AWATER =E!?
   Neither was I enamoured of 10ac CLEARANCE nor 11ac THIGH!? Nor indeed 25ac – wilful obscurity rather than smart setting.

   18ac SHERIDAN was in the latter category.

   The TON-UP boys were the original Rockers (bikers) who used the North Circular as a race track in the dead of night, back in the fifties.

   Starters 26ac URBAN followed by the HALIBUT at 19dn
   LOI 1ac ELAPSE
   COD 1dn EXCUSE ME
   WOD 15ac MATERIEL This chestnut gets ’em every time!

   Roll on Monday!

   Edited at 2019-05-24 02:28 am (UTC)

   1. It’s ‘close to Awatere’ that produces the E.
4. ….as I took a solid 60 minutes to finish. I had a hard time remembering Le Fanu’s first name, among other things.
5. Finished with some cheating.

   Had hot seats for ages which didn’t help.

   Knew ariadne from the nightclub in prague…

   Why is T a sort of cross, is it just because the lines are perpendicular?

   Thanks.

   1. T-cross is just an example of a shape of cross
      1. Thanks Jack.
         1. “Knew ariadne from the nightclub in prague…”

            Outstanding example of Ninja Turtling!*

            * for the uninitiated, to divine the existence of something highbrow from something distinctly not

            1. Is there an opposite of Ninja Turtling ? I’d never heard of Segovia as a city, but knew of Andres Segovia, the classical guitarist – distinctly highbrow !
               1. I knew Andres Segovia. I have one of his albums that I bought in vinyl as a callow youth.
               2. I too thought of the guitarist rather than knowing the city. “Well I guess that’s where his family came from then…”
            2. A day or two back Scylla appeared. I’m no classicist, but knew Scylla & Charybdis since reading some junk American thriller in the 1970s, where the brother of the main protagonist (Hoffman, D. in the movie) was a contract killer code-name Scylla. After being mortally wounded he said, “I am a rock!” and by force of will dragged himself to his brother’s flat to die with some dignity. Why was Scylla a rock? I looked it up. Does it still count as ninja-turtling if it predates the ninja turtles?
               By-the-bye, about where the classical Scylla might be, there is a stunningly beautiful small village at the base of a cliff on the straits of Messina named Scilla.
               1. According to a website I just checked, the Turtles mutated in 1969, so it definitely counts:

                  https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/Origin

                  Junk American novels have pretty much formed my entire world view so I know where you’re coming from

6. Another solver here who worked from the bottom up, 29ac having been my FOI. As the hour approached I started fearing for my sanity with so much wilful obscurity going on, and I eventually sought minimal assistance in order to nudge myself towards the finishing line. After all that hard work I still claim it as a technical DNF because I did actually finish it.
7. 18:29 … with contemptible egoism I declare this a fine puzzle. Translation: I knew all the stuff.

   Last in by far was THIGH, where I became increasingly convinced that there was no word in the English language to fit T.I.H until the penny dropped (my Chambers app also gives TAISH, a spine-chilling Scots word meaning ‘an apparition or voice, esp of someone about to die’).

   I loved the inventiveness of URBAN and TON-UP, the excellent hidden AMBUSH, and especially the lovely surface of BREEZE

8. I was slow to start on this puzzle but once I got going I found it the easiest for some time. I finished up with SHERIDAN which I had no idea about other than thinking “Sheridan fits in there” and I was expecting to be informed of my error as is more often the case than not when I have no idea about parsing. This time I was glad I went with my instinct as I could have sat for the whole day looking at this clue and I still wouldn’t have known why it was Sheridan!
9. Particularly TON-UP and DO ONE’S NUT—nor how that one worked. I am also sleepy and didn’t see that AMBUSH is a hidden word. Nor could I see the missing “pillar” after CATER. Enjoyed it anyway. LOI was not the most difficult: THIGH.

   Edited at 2019-05-24 06:48 am (UTC)

10. 35 mins with yoghurt etc.
    I liked it. I remember School for Scandal but DNK Le Fanu.
    Mostly I liked: the hidden Ambush and One-armed Bandit.
    Thanks setter and V.
11. 24 minutes of light bulb moments. I kept thinking, “I’m not going to get this”, and then it dawning on me. I was fortunate on SHERIDAN. My literary editor is a great fan of Gothic literature and sometimes I do him a favour the other way and read his stuff. SCRIVENER is also the package favoured by many writers, although, unsurprisingly, I found the IT of it too hard and use a little known piece of software called Microsoft Word. The NE was last to fall, with THIGH LOI after EARLDOM and then ARIADNE were seen. I liked DO ONE’S NUT. AMBUSH was a great hidden, BREEZE a terrific homophone but COD has to go to URBAN. I’d just read that in a bitter-sweet moment, the Urban Hymns symphony royalties now go to Richard Ashcroft. That must leave Mick Jagger as a pauper. Thank you V and setter.
    1. I see we crossed on mentioning the software package. It’s nice to see that Scrivener has become so popular; it came from what was a humble one-man-band software company down in Cornwall and seems to be doing very well these days.
12. A bit like pulling teeth for me (and unfortunately it felt like it was my teeth being pulled). Well done setter. Nice to see someone paid attention at school. COD to AMBUSH.
13. I found this incredibly hard to begin with, especially when the grid itself stymied my normal tactic of knocking off three- and four-letter clues when I draw a blank in the NW.

    Still, I was delighted to finish in 50 minutes, after finally starting with 15a MATERIEL and working around my GK gaps (did anyone else think that Segovia was probably somewhere in eastern Europe before this morning?)

    Helpfully I did know SHERIDAN Le Fanu, and Crete, my parents’ adoptive home, is rammed to the gills with ARIADNEs. Not many men called THESEUS, though.

    LOI 16d RACKETEER. COD 14 MORON, which was what I thought to myself when I finally figured it out.

    (A minor ninja-turtle for me with 3d. “What’s the point of knowing a ten-dollar word like ‘amanuensis’ when it’s not the answer for ‘scribe’?”, I thought to myself, but one of the writing apps I use is called SCRIVENER.)

    1. Segovia is clearly in Moravia.
14. A few I couldn’t parse such as EXCUSE-ME (I’ve just checked with my 93 yo Mum and she said it was even before her day!) and CATER, as well as the ‘Le Fanu’ bit of 18a, but I really enjoyed this. Favourites were the ‘who scandalised educational establishment’ wordplay, THE SE US and DO ONE’S NUT.

    I can remember when CASSETTES were the latest thing, especially as part of the car ‘entertainment system’, with Dolby noise reduction of course. I still have a few, but they’ve outlived my old players.

    Finished in 53 minutes.

    Thanks to setter and blogger

    1. I only knew EXCUSE ME from the song by Fish (ex of Marillion) “A Gentleman’s Excuse Me”. It only made no 30 in the charts so I guess it’s not widely known.
       1. I was going to mention the song, but I was already feeling guilty for blethering in my overlong comment! I have the gatefold vinyl of Vigil right here…
          1. I was wondering whether you’d bite if I mentioned Fish 😉
             1. Were you waiting with baited breath?
                1. Ba-dum *fish*.
15. I liked this quite a lot, probably for much the same reason as Sotira. One’s ego is always given a polish when it feels like one shares insider knowledge with the setter.
    In my case it was most felt with 5dn, with the delicious juxtaposition of anointed priest and Calvinist doctrine, either of which would would have rubbished the other.
    I do have to admit to quasi-Ninja turtling, though, as SHERIDAN would have been easier for me if Le Fanu had been Bucket.
    Just in under 18 minutes: cheers V and setter!
16. Might have been fifteen minutes but unable to get SHERIDAN. I thought Lorna Doone was unreadable, only managed the first twenty pages. Liked 7d/25ac.

    Thanks verlaine and setter.

    1. 20 pages ? You lasted far longer than I did !
       1. I liked it. I read it when I was seventeen, because I fancied the actress (Jane Merrow – I’ve just checked), playing Lorna in the BBC series out at the time. My critical faculties were perhaps both under-developed and impaired.
          1. Have Googled Jane Merrow and can confirm fanciable! My autocorrect coyly tried to correct that to “danceable” three times in a row.
             1. 🙂
17. Wonderful crossword this, full of wit and cleverness. If only I knew who the setter was 🙂
    Unusual, to have a city named after a guitarist…

    Edited at 2019-05-24 09:28 am (UTC)

18. I see our former TLS bloggers are out in force. I wouldn’t say this was a BREEZE but after a slow start it was a smoothie. Le Fanu’s Carmilla was pioneering in another way too because she was a same-sex vampire. I had the Spanish guitarist Andres SEGOVIA when it was my turn on duty with the TLS. 19.16
19. After making reasonable progress in 35 minutes, leaving 18a, 7d and 11a still to do, I struggled on for another 30 minutes before bunging in SHERIDAN because it fitted(2 ways into the clue, but both GK!). I was then left with A_O_D_E as I’d biffed TOOTH for 11a, and couldn’t see past it. I therefore resorted to a word-finder, which produced only AZO DYE until I removed the O and finally spotted ARIADNE. I then saw THIGH as a body part but had never heard of a T cross. Finally submitted at 65:05 off leaderboard. A bit of a disaster which I found more of a chore than a pleasure. Thanks setter and V.
20. is a shit clue. Doesn’t work.
    1. I didn’t find a 24ac in my crossword. What was in yours?
    2. Moron?
    3. There isn’t a 24ac. So it can’t work, really.
    4. 25ac? Which seems to have divided opinion.

       Edited at 2019-05-24 05:18 pm (UTC)

21. I met the wife there for the first time, in the ladies’ EXCUSE-ME. Went through the wrong door”. (Max Miller)

    Not quite a BREEZE as Olivia says, but very enjoyable despite not knowing SEGOVIA is a city, or that PREDESTINATION had anything to do with Calvinism.

    So enjoyable, in fact, that I readily forgive the compiler for cross-referencing ARIADNE Grauniad style. I’m not too bad with Greek mythology.

    FOI ELAPSE
    LOI EARLDOM
    COD ONE-ARMED BANDIT (liked MORON and THESEUS as well)
    TIME 13:11

22. It must be something in the setter’s style, as I also found myself reading a clue, thinking “Well, this is a word I obviously don’t know”, then realising I did know it after all. Nice trick to be able to pull off.
23. Well didn’t “know” it all, but for instance knew of the existence of Theseus & Ariadne, so in they went. Sheridan last in… knew neither writer nor their oeuvre, a pure guess to fit the crossers. Have we seen a Sheridan as a poet before? I have a vague idea Sheridan made bleeding-edge ultra-modern furniture. Back in the 18th century.
    Apart from those three no real trouble, and like others enjoyed the ambush.

    Edited at 2019-05-24 11:49 am (UTC)

24. Just under the half-hour: got SHERIDAN from LeFanu, having forgotten authorship of play, but assumed there had been some literary to-do I didn’t know.
    I guessed that SEGOVIA could have taken (or been given) his name from his home town.
    HUME came to mind at once, as he’d already appeared in the Grauniad (where ARIADNE is a regular setter).
25. 7:58 here, definitely the easiest one of the week for me. Fridays used to be the hardest. No problem with the TLS-y bits as I still solve that every week. BTW, the regular Guardian setter is ARACHNE.
26. I liked it too. Plenty that I knew, but some I didn’t and guessed – and so learned a thing. eg Excuse-me as a dance. For some reason I had Doonesbury in my head when I put in 27 across — even though I’ve read Lorna Doone, and — pace everyone else — actually enjoyed it.
    1. also came to mind hereabouts! Another Dead Head
27. A steady solve for me. I was unsure re SHERIDAN. I knew the playwright and sort of knew School for Scandal but didn’t understand the clue until reading the blog.

    A notable day. May has nearly gone. And I’m not referring to the month. The end of an error.

    Edited at 2019-05-24 01:16 pm (UTC)

    1. “Always keep a hold of nurse, For fear of finding something worse”
       H Belloc

       Edited at 2019-05-24 02:13 pm (UTC)

28. 37:30 for a bottom-to-toppish solve and very much back on terra firma after a couple of puzzles which were a bit out of my comfort zone. The Greek mythology was familiar and had heard of Lorna Doone. Dnk or had forgotten Le Fanu but knew who wrote SFS. Completely missed the reverse hidden at 22dn just biffed it from attack. Was a bit hesitant over clearance where I could see it as a synonym for green light but not really as a synonym for spare room but couldn’t see anything else with those checkers. A satisfying solve.
29. Loved it, no gripes, all been said above, 21 minutes while being hassled to go shopping again. Mrs K is on a Waitrose-fest while we’re near one. CoD my LOI THIGH.
    1. Sorry that was me, LJ uncoupled from my FB log in for reasons unknown.
       1. A
          Waitrose indeed! What’s up with the Co-op and UCP?
30. …Well this one wasn’t bad at all (for once). Very little even for me to get irritated about. Although ‘dream’ isn’t ‘aim’. And I think it would be more accurate to say that Ariadne was Theseus’ lover rather than mere assistant. She only became his assistant because she loved him, eloped with him, and did the dirty on Dionysus. Mr Grumpy
    1. But did he love her back? He ditched her pretty quick on Naxos IIRC.
31. Scylla and Charybdis have been suggested to be the Straits of Gibraltar, with Scylla the rock
32. 8:35. Late to this, but I found it fairly easy, so am experiencing a similar feeling of specific-knowledge-smugness to sotira, z8 and others.
    I thought Le Fanu was a footballer, but that was John Fashanu I think. Never heard of the other one.
    I don’t like the word MORON. For me it still carries overtones of its old meaning, so it smacks of mocking the learning-disabled, as we would term it these days. Before I’m accused me of being po-faced I’ll allow that I’m perhaps over-sensitive to these things because one of my kids is disabled. But I know that language can hurt so I try to take care.
    1. It’s not as good a word as “ignoramus” for sure. I like the (probably false) connotations thereof, that you could know stuff if you wanted to, but choose to ignore it.
       1. Ignoramus also has the advantage of not being a word for a type of learning disability.
          1. I understand the issue, though I think it’s rather unfortunate as, on some level, “moron” is just Greek for “stupid”. You wouldn’t want to rename the term “oxymoron” on offensiveness ground would you?
             1. Well ‘spastic’ has a clinical meaning but I certainly wouldn’t use it as an insult. And if you described my dog as a bitch I wouldn’t mind but if you said the same of my wife I might get annoyed. Context is important.
                It’s a tricky one because ‘moron’ has become very common, but it still carries that baggage and I wince a bit whenever I hear it.

                Edited at 2019-05-25 06:44 am (UTC)

       2. Not surprising that Hume could drink Hegel under the table as the latter was only 6 when Hume died. Can’t mean Kant could you?

          Managed to solve all of this puzzle, though it took some time. Found MATERIEL the most difficult due to the number of pronounceable permutations. First tried ARMELITE, not having any down clues in.

          from Jeepyjay

          1. The Philosopher’s Song
             1. Aah, I see. Another reference to literary high art. Too modern for me.

                Jeepyjay

33. I like it, solving over lunch at a local Greek place, and finding som clever clues. Ambush and Cocoa in particular. I also thought that many of the slightly obscure words had the same general flavor, which helped sort a couple out. My longest hang up was trying to squeeze Bronte into Do Ones Nut.

    Edited at 2019-05-24 09:34 pm (UTC)

34. In my opinion, for what it’s worth, the definition isn’t, as you have it V, ‘so fast’, but just ‘fast’. And the wordplay for ton is ‘not so’, in other words ‘not, placed so’.
35. [wilransome], your reading of the clue leaves us short of an “UP”, so I’m pretty sure Verlaine’s parsing is right. It also fits within the (probably unwritten) rules that Times setters play by.

    In any event, I got through this one in 35 minutes, stone cold sober, which is slowish even for me. Once again, a distinct lack of even a nod to anything technical or scientific. Fortunately, even my feeble knowledge of long-dead pretend people from distant lands was enough to furnish ARIADNE and THESEUS, even though I had (and have) not the foggiest how the one relates to the other. SHERIDAN went in solely because it fit and sounded familiar, but on reflection I think I was thinking of Ned Sherrin. A clue for (say) “mitochondrion” that could only be answered by knowing two unrelated pieces of biology would doubtless raise howls. (And yes, since you ask, I am in a grumpy mood; see above regarding sobriety.)

    But all this is completely by the by. Today, I have completed some serious data collation, to explore my long-held theory that I solve better with the benefit of a drink or three. Plotting my solving times against alcohol intake (and counting only drinks taken up to 3 hours before completing the puzzle), there is a definite and significant negative correlation over the range 0-5 units. This is based on my last 100 error-free cryptic solves. There aren’t enough datapoints at the upper end of the range to know whether the curve eventually turns the other way, and I shall endeavour to obtain them over the coming months, in the interests of science.

    1. I read this blog just for your comments. You always make me laugh out loud 😂
       1. Thanks 🙂
    2. Isn’t 24dn a sort of reversed wordplay clue? You say that my reading of the clue leaves us short of an ‘UP’, but does it? Surely the up is taken care of by the fact that ‘not’ is ‘so’, i.e. up.
       1. Hmm. I’m not convinced, but you never know!
36. Found this quite easy going, no hold ups no odd words or super tricky wordplay. Fav clue 5d.

    31/33 total.

    Thanks to setter and blogger.

    WS

37. …or thereabouts. Plenty of thought required. None of it unobtainable.
38. Thanks setter and verlaine
    One of those puzzles that just kept giving up answers in a steady way with only a post look up to check about the Calvinist doctrine, the T-cross, Mr Le Fanu, the Spanish city and to check that there was an Earl of Essex (a Mr Capell apparently).
    Getting the ONE-ARMED BANDIT quite early on helped open up the crossword quite a lot. THIGH was a mid-solve entry with only the last H in play.
    Finished in the NE corner with MATERIEL (can never easily recall that word), ARIADNE and EARLDOM the last few in.

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