Times 27034 – sunk!

Author   glhPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Solving time: submitted at 15:12, but I have one incorrect.  After a longer look at the one I got wrong, I can see what it should have been, though I don’t think I would have come readily.

Odd puzzle this one, lots of head-scratching, and a fair chunk of biffing, though I think I have the wordplay sorted out (for those clues that have wordplay). I won’t be surprised if I’m not alone in having an honest error.

For those of you not expecting to see my smiling face, z8b8d8k and I have done a little swap, as he is away from the interweebs today and I will not be around on June 14.

Away we go…

Across
1 Dirty books in second venue for literary festival (6)
SHABBY – B,B(books) in S and the HAY literary festival, which starts in a few weeks (and was a lucky guess for me)
4 Building’s top plant installer? (8)
THATCHER – cryptic definition (since it would be plant material used to make the thatched roof)
10 Bury rival, small person applying for job? (11)
INTERVIEWEE – INTER(bury), VIE(rival), WEE(small)
11 Impertinence masked at the outset by daughter’s sauce (3)
DIP – LIP(impertinence) with D instead of L at the front
12 Very serious man with stylish clothing (7)
CHRONIC – RON(man) inside CHIC(stylish)
14 You, once humble, putting forward Liberal that’s a bit jaundiced? (7)
YELLOWY – YE(you, once), then LOWLY(humble) with the L moved to the front
15 Electronic components cracked on some circuits and died, losing current (14)
SEMICONDUCTORS – anagram of ON,SOME,CIRCUITS,D minus I
17 One’s highly strung, which may describe spinal cord (6,2,6)
BUNDLE OF NERVES – double definition
21 Survive disembarking after everyone else? (7)
OUTLAST – or be the one who gets OUT LAST
22 Hooter modified to cover front of brass instrument (7)
THEORBO – anagram of HOOTER containing B(rass)
23 Form of three-way junction without a coupling (3)
TWO – T(three-way junction), W/O(without)
24 Drill bit with vertical grip? (7,4)
PRESENT ARMS – cryptic definition, based on rifles being presented vertically in that part of the drill
26 In study I messed up division (8)
DISUNITY – anagram of IN,STUDY,I
27 Writer needing men in good health (6)
ORWELL – OR(men), WELL(in good health)

Down
1 Bag held up in Candide’s Act I, usually (8)
SUITCASE – hidden reversed in candidES ACT I USually
2 Floating platform headed back to sailors (3)
AFT – RAFT(floating platform) missing the head
3 Cowshed shelved, both unfinished and romantically moody (7)
BYRONIC – BYRE(cowshed) and ON ICE(shelved) both missing the last letter
5 It is a question of parentage (4-4-6)
HOWS-YOUR-FATHER – double definition with IT referring to sexual intercourse
6 Possible plagiarism involving Spanish article which is run without obstacles (3,4)
THE FLAT – THEFT(plagiarism) containing LA
7 Drove in rush, desperate to find water on Manhattan’s West Side (6,5)
HUDSON RIVER – anagram of DROVE,IN,RUSH – the river separating New York from New Jersey
8 Power for line of forwards is rewarding (6)
REPAYS – P replacing L in RELAYS(forwards a message)
9 Not being satisfied about male campers, maybe, breaking record time (14)
DISCONTENTMENT – ON (about) TENT MEN(male campers) insie DISC(record), T
13 Unruly spirit destroyed debt records (11)
RUMBUSTIOUS – RUM(spirit), BUST(destroyed), IOUS(debt records)
16 Slippery slope limiting America’s support (8)
ESPOUSAL – anagram of SLOPE containing USA
18 Unsmiling principal brings in commercial parking (7)
DEADPAN – DEAN(principal) containing AD,P
19 European Court function is set up to protect voter (7)
ELECTOR – E,CT with ROLE(function) reversed surrounding
20 Got Edward as a prize, as usual (6)
WONTED – or WON TED. This was my error, as I had POTTED, with TED being the POT.
25 Wish undone in French way (3)
RUE – double definition

76 comments on “Times 27034 – sunk!”

  1. A fair chunk of biffing, all right: BYRONIC, once I’d given up BAR(N) and remembered BYR(E), I didn’t think of the ONIC part; HOWS YOUR ETC., from the W and Y, never noting the ‘it’; TWO; SUITCASE. Dithered for a while on 1ac, never having heard of the Hay (or is it Cay?) festival, and thinking that shabby isn’t the same as dirty, until I thought of ‘a shabby trick’. George, you’ve forgotten to underline ‘as usual’ at 20d.

    Edited at 2018-05-10 06:40 am (UTC)

  2. 26 minutes, so a rare sub-Gregg for me. I was trying to put ‘rumbuctious’ or something along those lines at 13, and now see that both ‘rumbunctious’ and ‘rambunctious’ are words. I rather liked WONTED and THE FLAT, and was pleased that the sciency clue was something I’d heard of.

    After SACKBUT and THEORBO, maybe DULCIAN or KORTHOLT next – clued as anagrams, naturally.

  3. I did like HOW’S-YOUR-FATHER and BUNDLE OF NERVES but I thought 7d was a bit too easy. I didn’t even need to see it was an anagram, just a look at the letter count was enough.
    I wonder if Row 1 represents our setter’s political views? Column 11 certainly reads like a political thriller while Row 13 sounds like a Famous Five novel after depreciation.
  4. I thought I might have been a bit slow on this but, apart from Ulaca’s fast time, it looks like I should be happy to be about my norm. I quite liked the “penny drop” on the cryptic definitions (THATCHER and PRESENT ARMS) and also on OUTLAST.

    Thanks to the setter for no real obscurities (Hay being unknown but guessable) and to George for the early blog.

  5. 26 minutes represents my best solving time for a while. I’ve heard of WONT (in ‘as is my wont’) but don’t recall coming across it in adjectival form before.

    I didn’t spot the wordplay at 23 (w/o is a curious abbreviation for a single word) but had no doubts about the answer.

    According to Brewer’s ‘How’s your father?’ originated in the music halls where it meant ‘nonsense’ or ‘meaningless ritual’, and the meaning required in today’s clue (on the lines of hanky-panky’) came later.

  6. DNF .. quite a list of things I either couldn’t understand or didn’t know. I gave up trying to decide if the instrument was a THEORBO or a THEBROO and came here.

    I’d never have worked out the wordplay for TWO and I was another half-explained POTTED

    Not a wavelength I can imagine myself tuning into, but well done to all who cracked it

    1. I can see the definition now – THEBROO: a small didgeridoo made from cured kangaroo hide that’s been boiled in a billy.
      1. After sampling a bit of theorbo music online a little earlier, give me Bruce playing the ‘broo any day, mate

        Edited at 2018-05-10 07:53 am (UTC)

  7. I mostly enjoyed this, but sadly plumped for THEBROO as the unknown instrument. Scuppered by an unknown clued by an anagram for the second time in a week! Bah and, thoroughly, humbug. Otherwise a fun 41m solve.
      1. Four times in cryptics, one Mephisto and one Jumbo according to Mr Google
        1. And it probably took me four of those times to finally learn the word.
        2. Sadly, though, it’s not come up in a cryptic since Jan 2015, by the looks of it, so this is my first time.
  8. Raced through this…except not all correct.

    I was another POTTED. And I’d forgotten THEORBO and went for THEBROO. SInce I used to play the oboe, I should have gone for the right answer, although apparently it’s a base lute and not a wind instrument at all.

  9. Altogether now…
    I’d like to hold it in my arms and keep it companeee

    Don’t you feel better now? Even if another obscure word was an anagram?
    On the road today with IPad and an M&S flapjack.
    25 mins. Guessed the instrument and blagged ‘Two’ (not my favourite clue).
    Thanks setter and G.

  10. More a biff-fest than a literary one. I must have entered 50% of this puzzle just on definitions. THEORBO does crop up from time to time so no problem there. Somehow it all felt slightly unsatisfactory.
  11. I’ve never heard of the festival in 1ac but guessed that it might be held at a place called Cay.

    Dereklam

  12. I was another THEBROO, but I also had a less excusable BARONIC. I’d parsed it as curtailed ‘barn’ and ‘on ice’, recognised BARONIC as a word and then didn’t worry about the definition. Other than that a fairly straightforward 15 minutes.
  13. Guessed THEORBO on the irrelevant grounds that ORBO resembles oboe. Apart from the French thoroughfare, the 3-letter words were difficult. Aftr six decades have finally discovered what WONTED means, and notice the juxtaposition with ‘wish’. Is CHRONIC necessarily very serious? – I thought it just meant long-term, consistent. Interesting that HAY was well known to UK solvers, whereas HUDSON RIVER did not spring immediately to mind – and vice versa in the US. 25′, thanks gl and setter.

    Edited at 2018-05-10 08:34 am (UTC)

    1. CHRONIC is now commonly used to mean ‘very serious’. It’s also used to mean ‘very bad’: ‘that hoodie is peng but your trainers is chronic bruv’, as ulaca might say.
      2. Not in my OED, it isn’t, although I see Collins lists “serious” as an informal usage. I found that clue unsatisfactory. And as for TWO, the less said the better.
        1. What are you objecting to, anon? Is it the ‘informal’ usage? I for one welcome this sort of thing. It reflects the development of the language, a welcome counterpoint to the expectation that we all had Latin drilled into us at an early age.

          Edited at 2018-05-10 09:41 pm (UTC)

    2. Robrolfe is right about CHRONIC, except his objection isn’t strong enough. Not merely does CHRONIC not “necessarily” mean very serious, it simply doesn’t have that meaning at all. An ailment that’s chronic may also be serious, but the two meanings are entirely distinct. I have a chronic cough which isn’t serious in the least.
  14. 19 minutes with REPAYS unparsed. As someone who spent early years in a village where a cowshed was called a byre, BYRONIC was a write-in. And as someone who had to judge between the more expensive Norfolk Reed and Wheat Straw, both undoubtedly plants, for a re-thatch on the Oxfordshire cottage I owned in the eighties, I quickly saw it was THATCHER, although I don’t think the clue gave proper credit to the profession. Presumably the former PM wasn’t invoked in the clue to prevent copies of The Times being burnt on the steps of the Bodleian. I also wasn’t mad keen on the PRESENT ARMS clue, where I needed all the crossers and some head scratching. DNK THEORBO but got it right once all crossers were in place. I found this a strange mix, but enjoyed because I got the answers. Thank you George and setter.
  15. I always have trouble with three letter solutions for some reason, and wasn’t helped here by both “dip” and “lip” meeting the definition “sauce”.

    FOI INTERVIEWEE, from where I made reasonable progress, but put a ring around both 11A and 23A despite having two letters in the latter !

    Biffed ELECTOR (thanks George), and eventually light dawned over the HUDSON RIVER, which is a strange transposition in my book, and settled DIP for me.

    Finally realised w/o was without, rather than walk over, and at 11:39 TWO was my LOI.

    WOD RUMBUSTIOUS which could have tripped me up were it less clearly parsed. My earworm this morning is John Fogerty’s “Rambunctious Boy” as a result of considering the alternatives.

    COD HOW’S-YOUR-FATHER (did Lloyd George know him ?)

  16. All done in 25 minutes with 23a remaining but just bunged in TWO after an alphabet trawl. Smiled at THATCHER, PRESENT ARMS and AFT. Thanks George for explaining TWO.
  17. Another pleasant and not too taxing solve. I was in Hay a month or so ago; amazing how many books you can find you didn’t know you needed to buy once you start browsing the shelves there. I remembered the THEORBO from somewhere in the recesses of my memory – it made me think of Bill Bailey, who often pulls out odd instruments to play in his stage shows, so perhaps that’s where I saw one. Oddly, though, it was the smallest clues which gave me the most pause for thought; until I’d parsed them successfully, I was reluctant to jump in with TWO and AFT and LIP, and it took longer than I expected for words where I already had two-thirds of the letters.
  18. 31 mins and the solutions were coming steadily if not quite at the speed they do for most commenters here. LOI — and a waste of 5 mins — was the weird word for the musical instrument: I pondered over the plausibility of THEBROO but rejected it as simply too bonkers to be correct.
    Naturally, crossword setters will light on those word meanings which have recently crept into accepted usage through ignorance and misunderstanding (‘chronic’ doesn’t mean ‘serious’, as we all know, but many people use it in that way) because it helps in disguising the solution. I had a harrumph at DISCONTENTMENT — what the hell is that? A noun derived from the already extant, and perfectly good noun, ‘discontent’. Honestly, what hope is there for the language? I blame the Murcans.
    1. Murcan moi wasted a lot of time on that one — could we have discontentmentness? So lay off. And if many people use ‘chronic’ to mean ‘serious’, then ‘chronic’ means ‘serious’. A disturbing number of people (more than two, at least) use ‘jejune’ to mean ‘puerile’; and while of course in the larger scheme of things, where I’m King and get to decide, that’s not what it means, damn it all.

      Edited at 2018-05-10 10:03 am (UTC)

      1. Well, OK, not every single Murcan, then … but the general mass of them. And don’t get me started on ‘jejune’! Jejune? Jeune? Young, inexperienced? Bah, I blame the French.
    2. The irretrievable debasement of the language through ‘ignorance and misunderstanding’ seems to have been coming for as long as there has been language to complain about. It will be terrible when it actually happens and we find ourselves entirely unable to communicate with one another.
    3. As a matter of linguistic fact, DO many people use “chronic” to mean “serious”? In my experience, they use it for just what it means–durable, long-lasting–and I’d like to know just how the Collins dictionary-makers think themselves able to tell that the speakers/writers mean something different.
      1. The dictionary-makers make use of very large online samples of text (transcribed spoken interaction as well as written texts) to extract many thousands of attested instances of actual usage. The context in which the word is used can usually indicate the intended meaning, though I agree that there is no absolute measure available. In these few examples I have attached below, the context seems to me to suggest clearly that the writer/speaker was using the word ‘chronic’ simply to mean ‘very bad’. A hangover in (c) below e.g. is surely not a chronic condition.

        (a) “Elsewhere, they are less sanguine, covering the chronic weakness of their arguments in the figleaf of officialese:”

        (b) “…cheese on toast. With butter.  Hardens the arteries something chronic.”

        (c) “Novoselic ambled up to say ‘hi’  and bemoan a chronic hangover –the inevitable punishment for a late-night sesh.”

  19. Just under 10 minutes here, so I seem to have been on the wavelength. I happened to know THEORBO, but it’s another poor clue. At this point it’s hard to avoid the suspicion they’re doing it on purpose. I do hope not. And I don’t think ‘has appeared before in a Times crossword’ is a particularly good indicator of general usage.
    Peter B has kindly popped up to explain the SWINE FEVER mystery on my Sunday blog if anyone’s interested.

    Edited at 2018-05-10 08:50 am (UTC)

  21. 16 min and 44 secs with one letter wrong. Rumbustuous for Rumbustious. Which was silly as the wordplay was there for all to see. I had it in my mind that a “UOU” was a form of “IOU” where you were the debtor instead of me. But then i suppose it would be UOI.

    COD 5d. How’s your father.

  22. Agree with Jimbo, a bit mixed, not the most satisfying of puzzles. Got done in 30 minutes except until left with 23a T-O, wrote in TWO without being able to see how it worked or sure it was right. Did plump for the lute thing spelt correctly though.
  23. 29.12, and left feeling a bit rocky, as if after crossing a river on sliding slivers of ice. Though I must defend the theorbo clue for its surface. I also like the unfinished moody cowshed. Chronic formally still means long-term, as from chronos, but the informal is more in play here, helped on maybe by a vocative ‘Man’. Looking at the whole thing again it does seem both fair and smart, I have to admit.
  24. 10m 57s, with PRESENT ARMS the last one to fall. I put in RUMBUSTIOUS with fingers crossed, as it were, and fortunately THEORBO seemed more plausible than THEBROO when I was taking a stab.

    Not sure I’ve come across ‘headed’ to mean, essentially, beheaded – one to remember.

  25. I’m not sure why, but this was one of my fastest times ever, with well over three-quarters of the grid completed between Surbiton and Waterloo, and the rest knocked quickly off over the first coffee of the day in my office. As it was in two tranches, I don’t have an exact time, but I would guess a little over 30 minutes. I must have been on the right wavelength.

    Having said that, my parsing of REPAYS and TWO was a little bit questionable, and my LOI (SHABBY) held me up until I sorted out which end of the clue represented the definition.

    Nice puzzle and nice blog – thanks.

  26. Now is the winter of our DISCONTENTMENT (made glorious summer) doesn’t sound quite so good really. I struggled a bit with THE FLAT after looking for “el” for the article and I didn’t even try to parse SEMICONDUCTORS or the river – which makes for a slightly dissatisfied feeling. Still, some stuff to like here such as CHRONIC and YELLOWY. 21.19
    1. Those who do the QC will have seen YELLOWY only two days ago defined as ‘a little jaundiced’.
  27. 43:56 to screw up with POTTED and a last second change of TWO to TAO. I didn’t really enjoy this as the 3 letter answers just took too long to see. Very frustrating. Thanks setter and George.
  28. 15:23, taking a minute at the end to fix the problem of my initial TAO for 25a not parsing, but got to TWO eventually. No problem with THEORBO. Liked HOW’S-YOUR-FATHER.
  29. Is a baron inferior to a lord, or a barn to a byre for that matter? They were for 3d anyway, so I was a DNF in 45 minutes, after being very pleased with myself for finally getting WONTED after a ten minute alphabet trawl. THEORBO rang vague bells from somewhere, probably an otherwise forgotten place in crossword land.

    Although I like the colloquial ‘something chronic’, I’m not a fan of CHRONIC by itself for ‘very serious’. In a medical sense, ‘chronic’ refers to duration rather than severity, meaning long-term or continuing for a long time, but I suppose it’s one of those words that has gathered new meanings in everyday use. It’s even more confusing as ‘acute’, the opposite of ‘chronic’ in a medical sense, has also acquired an everyday meaning of ‘serious’.

    THATCHER, SHABBY or not, was my pick of the bunch.

    Thanks to setter and blogger.

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