Times 25,773 From DOS To Windows

An interesting puzzle that was never dull but which some may find frustrating because of its, at times obscure, references. 30 minutes to solve.

Across
1 HYDERABAD – H-(ready)*-BAD; City of Pearls in Andhra Pradesh;
6 WIDOW – WI(n)DOW; area on (computer) screen=window (Microsoft jargon);
9 INSIDER – two meanings;
10 PANACHE – EH!-CAN-A-P(= piano) all reversed;
11 SUMAC – SUM-AC(e);tree that colonizes areas via rhizomes;
12 OLIVE,DRAB – OLIVE(D)R-AB; reference Oliver Hardy (Stan Laurel’s oppo) – some may not know this entertainer who was earlier than ITMA;
13 BITCH – BIT-CH; check=CH (chess notation);
14 EMACIATED – DAME reversed surrounds CIA-TE (tonic solpha note);
17 FOR,TOFFEE – FOR-TOFF-E(ffet)E; slang phrase “can’t do it for toffee” meaning “useless at it” – is it still used?;
18 GLEAN – GLE(A)N;
19 ABSTAINER – (eats in bar)*;
22 ALERT – hidden (de)ALER-T(ries);
24 OUTLINE – LINE-OUT switched; the line out is a set piece in rugby many will have heard of, hopefully;
25 DYNASTY – ANY-D(ivert) reversed-STY; Tamworth is a breed of pig; Ming, Romanov or for PB – Dimbelby;
26 SKATE – S-KATE; today is Will and Kate’s wedding anniversary – who else got married on 29th April?;
27 SHELDRAKE – S-HELD-RAKE; “implement” is a bit broad spectrum;
 
Down
1 HEIRS – sounds like “airs”;
2 DOSIMETER – DOS-METIER with I “lifted”; DOS=Disc Operating System – very old piece of standard software some may not know; a DOSIMETER measures exposure to such things as radiated energy – some may not know of these implements;
3 RADICCHIO – RADI(cal)-(chic)*-O; Italian chicory – some may not know of this herb;
4 BURN,ONES,FINGERS – a reference to kiddie’s food of fish fingers – not sure how universal they are;
5 DUPLICATE,BRIDGE – a pontoon is a bridge as well as a card game;
6 WINCE – WIN(C)E; C from C(ork);
7 DECOR – ROC(k)ED reversed;
8 WIESBADEN – (wines)* surrounds BADE; German spa where Adolf and Eva did not honeymoon following their wedding on 29th April 1945;
13 BUFFALOES – BUFF-ALOES;
15 INGRAINED – (villa)IN-G-RAINED;
16 THE,RED,SEA – (her teased)*; Moses et al;
20 SITKA – S(IT)KA; reggae music=SKA; the SITKA is a fast growing spruce tree – some may not know that;
21 ALICE – (m)ALICE;
23 THYME – sounds like “time” (what a pub landlord traditionally shouts when the pub is about to close);

56 comments on “Times 25,773 From DOS To Windows”

  1. Best thing today was the distraction at 4dn where “spoil fish dinner” has enough letters for the fodder and includes ONES, signalled by “badly”. Had me going for a while.
  2. A similar experience, Jim, at 27 minutes. My knowledge of flora grows apace, though SUMAC rang a bell from somewhere in crosswordland. SITKA I made up with hope and Red Dwarf’s favourite music.
    It’s not some sort of computer geek anniversary today, is it? Lots of references, especially if you include bit from 13ac. (Is a BITCH a dog – I only ask to see if it gets past the censors) I still possess a (working) DOS 6.1 laptop running Word Perfect 5.5, and I believe DOS still lurks somewhere in the background even in Microsoft’s horrible Windows 8 (I gather 8.1’s better, but I can’t be bothered to try).
    I rather liked DYNASTY today for the “power line” definition, even if the surface reading was a bit weird.

    Edited at 2014-04-29 08:14 am (UTC)

    1. I don’t have a problem with BITCH

      Word Perfect was an excellent piece of software as was SuperCalc the spreadsheet at that time. All sadly lost to the Microsoft steamroller

      Windows 8 is a horror story – I won’t touch it – and I’m advised that 8.1 is not much better, particularly for business users. And yes, Windows is just a pretty front face to the underlying operating system which is unusable other than to IT techies

    2. My dog is a BITCH. This morning I didn’t say to my wife ‘I’m just taking the bitch for a walk’.
  3. Yes, this was hard work and I was too weary at the end to go back and parse what I missed whilst solving and couldn’t be bothered this morning . Not really my sort of puzzle with the completely unknown DOSIMETER (also DOSEMETER) at 2dn, and 20dn which required three pieces of GK that I did not possess, though I have met SKA before and promptly forgot it. 75 minutes with use of aids at the final hurdle on those two clues.

    Edited at 2014-04-29 08:05 am (UTC)

  4. All bar DOZY METER in around an hour. Wouldn’t have got that in a month of Sundays. I thought WIESBADEN and HEIRS particularly good.

    After completing yesterday’s Quickie without a clue that I’d done it a week previously (thanks Times), worries about my senility were temporarily put on ice when I remembered SKA at possibly the third time of asking.

  5. 45 mins but I needed aids to get DOSIMETER, although I saw the wordplay once I saw the word. I had a lot of trouble in the NE that was compounded by a misspelt “Weisbaden” at 8dn until I finally realised 10ac had to be PANACHE. The WIDOW/WINCE/DECOR trio took far longer than they should have done. Jimbo is spot on to hint that this puzzle won’t be everyone’s cup of tea. It certainly wasn’t mine.
  6. 40m. Yesterday’s was very easy, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Today’s was very hard, and there’s nothing wrong with that either.
    I was held up today by the long ones. In the case of 4dn, I was convinced that ‘suffer from meddling’ must be a reference to a medlee rather than a meddler: a cunning clue. In the case of 5dn, I’ve never heard of the game so needed quite a few checkers.
    There was quite a lot of fairly obscure GK in here, but by a combination of previous crossword appearances (SUMAC, OLIVE DRAB) and construction from wordplay (SITKA) I managed to struggle through. Oliver Hardy was no problem of course: he may predate ITMA but unlike the radio show he’s still famous. 😉
    I got 2dn by dumb luck: ‘software: one’ gave me DOSI, and then ‘measure’ gave me METER. Beyond that I was clueless, but fortunately my misreading led to the right answer. It’s a devilishly hard clue but seems fair.
    I can see what 17ac is trying to do but I can’t make the cryptic grammar work. Is it just me?
    1. I also had difficulty with particularly the definition part of 17A when writing the blog but whilst solving “aristocrat extremely effete” gave me TOFF-EE on reading so the answer had to be FOR TOFFEE
    2. I wish you hadn’t asked that because my brain now hurts. I didn’t notice at the time but I think the definition may be “so”. 35 minutes for this one. No problem with the GK but should have got some quicker (e.g. widow, bitch) that would have provided helpful crossers.
      1. But ‘so can’t do anything’ would lead to something like ‘is incompetent’.
      2. I should have added “Can’t do anything so” (I.e. for toffee) is therefore equivalent to “Can’t do anything competently”
  7. 21 mins – might have been quicker if I had concentrated on the wordplay rather than thinking I could spell 3d which held me up a bit.
  8. I’m an ordinary joe who has been doing this for 25 years in the 35 minutes into town on the train in the morning. I am happy if I get 20+ clues and delighted when I finish perhaps once a week. If it were not for the crossword, there is no way Murdoch would get my daily shilling. I suspect that I am core audience.

    The new editor seems to have lost the plot. The puzzles veer from the facile (yesterday) to the ridiculously obscure (today). Times for the times to get a grip and offer up a fair and consistent challenge (the odd stinker acceptable, so long as it’s not just a setter’s clever, clever ego trip).

    1. I’m not sure quite what you’re objecting to. Almost every answer has come up in recent years, the exceptions being WIESBADEN (surely reasonably well known?) and DOSIMETER.

      Given that (some) solvers have been grumbling for years about the lack of scientific references, it seems churlish to blame the new editor for doing something to improve the situation. I regard my knowledge of scientific terms as modest, but my only problem with DOSIMETER was working out how IMETER equated to “one getting a lift in profession” (which looks blindingly obvious now, but I can only put forward the rather lame excuse that I was feeling tired).

      Today’s puzzle took me a little under twice the time I took for yesterday’s, which seems a reasonable ratio – though admittedly I’m not your average solver. Anyway I can think of puzzles produced under the aegis of previous editors which have given me a lot more trouble than this one.

    2. Thanks, fellow “ordinary joe” , you took the words right out of my mouth, though I couldn’t have expressed my feelings as well as you have. I was beginning to think it was my brain power that was fading.
    3. Thanks, fellow “ordinary joe” , you took the words right out of my mouth, though I couldn’t have expressed my feelings as well as you have. I was beginning to think it was my brain power that was fading.
  9. Tough indeed. Left staring at the NW corner because I didn’t previously know DOSIMETER, and was trying to come up with a homophone for 1dn which had an H at the beginning before realising it was unsounded.
  10. I feel very sorry for anyone for whom software is DOS, fish fingers are a dinner and Hardy is Oliver.

    I don’t understand how a DOSIMETER is a measure of exposure any more than a clock is a measure of time. In the expression “Can’t do [something] for toffee” surely “for toffee ” means something like “at all” or “competently” – the words “so can’t do something” in the clue are redundant.

    I didn’t like this much.

  11. DNF. Gave up after 35 mins with heirs (where does hopeful come into it?) sumac and dosimeter all missing.

    Hmmpphh.

    1. I loved the clue and therefore scrabbled around until I found a justification for the “hopeful”. Buried in Collins, we have “an archaic word for offspring” under “heir”.

      Edited at 2014-04-29 12:27 pm (UTC)

    2. I thought simply that ‘heirs’ might be hopeful of inheriting a fortune.

      Edited at 2014-04-29 12:57 pm (UTC)

      1. That makes sense, if, on the other hand, technically, they get what is their due whether the person in question dies testate or intestate.
  12. Clearly a very large step up in difficulty after yesterday’s friendly offering. I did enjoy this a lot, although there probably was a some obscure GK in it and dosimeter is very hard for those who hadn’t come across the word. Collins defines it as measuring a dose of radiation absorbed, so the definition seems accurate. I don’t think that crosswords shouldn’t have setter names or a difficulty rating attached, but I wonder if an assessment of the cryptic’s difficulty could be placed next to the quick cryptic in the paper as an indication to newer solvers. Does anyone know if insider can actually mean a prisoner or is it a cryptic definition? Nice blog Jim, always learn something new I would never have learnt elsewhere.

    Edited at 2014-04-29 01:43 pm (UTC)

  13. I had a 40 minute initial bash at this then another few quick snatches, so I reckon about an hour all told.

    I thought this a really good crossword. There were several unknowns (DOSIMETER, WIESBADEN, SITKA, SUMAC) but all were gettable from the cryptic given some considerable thought. Thus I finished slightly weary, but satisfied.

  14. My wife is preparing sumac chicken today (from a recipe in the current Sainsbury’s magazine). I didn’t know the word, and she said “that’ll come up in one of your crosswords…”.

    Jim, near Cambridge

    1. Several times I get this the other way round – there is a word I’ve never heard in the crossword then I hear it elsewhere soon after. For instance PETRODOLLARS came up recently which I cursed as a silly word that no one ever uses. Within days it appeared in a novel I was reading!
  15. Great crossword, struggled with the NW corner for quite a while, am not convinced by the use of DOSIMETER as a measure of absorption – surely it’s a measurer of absorption? Well blogged Jim, hope the fairways are drying out, ours are bogs again.
    1. Golf remains almost impossible in any meaningful sense. Yesterday for example we had a thunder storm and torrential rain that was so loud on the roof of the car my wife and I couldn’t converse
  16. Enjoyable struggle – clues going in very slowly but it’s always enjoyable to work out the tough ones. Ground to a halt in SW where I didn’t know SKA or SITKA so didn’t stand a chance really. Thanks for the blog for sorting me out.
  17. I liked this puzzle a lot, and a good thing too, as it made me stick with it to finish with DOSIMETER after about an hour. I’m with those who have said that it’s not kosher to define it as a measure, because it’s really an instrument that measures. Unless its output is measured in ‘dosimeters’ of course, but I doubt that. I learned several things today, i.e. SITKA (known previously only as the AK town), pontoon as a card game, the rugby thing, and Hitler’s wedding day. I thought many of the definitions clever today, so thanks to the setter and Jimbo for the parsings. Regards.
  18. Yesterday was probably my fastest time ever, today one of my slowest. This was a beast with loads of obscure words and I made loads of guesses, all of them came good. Took me a few hours to finish as there was a power cut in the whole of Kenya just as I was tackling the NW corner having finished the rest. Power came back four hours later and managed to finish it.

    Been having problems coming to this site the last few days, is there a problem with the site or our usually very slow internet speed, I wonder?

    Thank you for the blog.

    Nairobi Wallah

    1. I’ve had the same – pages refused to load for the last couple of days, but fine today.
      Just as well, given the serious need for help on this one!
      1. In such cases, using Chrome on a Mac, I’ve found that if I interrupt the loading (by clicking on the X that appears on the reload icon while the page is loading) then the page displays correctly. I don’t know if that will work on all browsers/OSs though.
        1. I’ve had the same problem on the ipad, where there is no easy reload key. Glad to hear others are having the same issue. Not a problem on the (non DOS) windows 7 / Mozilla I run elsewhere
  19. 20 minutes late last night in a big thunderstorm… an odd one, and a lot of “oh that’s how that works” after putting in an answer from definition and back-unravelling the wordplay. On the other hand, SITKA (which was SKITA in my grid for a while), FOR TOFFEE and WEISBADEN came from wordplay alone. I think there was an early misprint in the online version as PANACHE wasn’t reversed as such and I was wondering if PANACAT was a thing.
  20. No real chance to look at as driving Miss BT around the country but now I do look at it, I am not inspired to try and complete so DNF.
  21. 14:45 for me, feeling very tired and starting slowly as usual, but fortunately not completely adrift from the setter’s wavelength, so avoiding a complete disaster.

    Nice to see DOS getting a mention (even though I’m more of a UNIX man myself). I still run cmd.exe daily under Windows 7 to give me an MS DOS command prompt. I’m waiting for Windows 9.

    An interesting and enjoyable puzzle.

  22. Solved correctly, but had to consult Jim’s excellent blog for some of the parsings (particularly 11a & 15d, though, in retrospect, they don’t seem so difficult). I share reservations about ‘dosimeter’, though I knew the word from involvement in Emergency Planning in a previous life, and I’m not convinced by ‘glass’ as a synonym for ‘wine’ in 6d.These are minor whinges though as, on the whole, I enjoyed the puzzle.
  23. For the amateur, forget it. “Fine” is not “Ace”. If “that’s growing fast” is a clue for “Sitka” then I am in big trouble. “Heirs” for “hopeful types”? Décor for scenery? ok, one of you found them in a dictionary somewhere (I feel I have cheated if I use a dictionary for anything other than checking afterwards), but nobody users décor for scenery. The décor of the Alps? The scenery of your lounge? Setter, you got this all wrong. If you want obscure in an everyday crossword, let me know. Meanwhile don’t waste my time.
    1. Oh dear! To take one example, “décor” is in regular current use as “the decoration and scenery of a stage” (to quote ODO).

      Beginners may find puzzles like this a bit tricky, but more experienced solvers need an occasional challenge as well, and as far as this (reasonably experienced) solver is concerned, the setter got it entirely right. If you’re sometimes out of your depth, then keep practising.

  24. Got about half done on a long plane flight, blaming thin oxygen for my inability. Picked up another quarter when I got home. Probably would never have solved the last ones. W that said, I kind of like a puzzle that is a bit too much challenge for me to finish – at least if I know when to throw in the towel.
  25. Finally gave up on this one during Wednesday lunchtime, with HEIRS, DOSIMETER, INSIDER and SUMAC left blank. I stand ready to getting my knuckles rapped by the beak, but DOSIMETER seems to me to be entirely obscure. SUMAC, also, something for the “knit-your-own-yoghurt” foodies who follow Ottolenghi’s every word in the Grauniad.

    The “daily” crossword should be giving us obscurely difficult ways of getting to obvious words, not vice-versa. Vocabulary/GK should be within the reach of the well-educated, well-read, Times reader. Prize crosswords are a different game entirely, and the whole panoply of Scots dialect, Spenserian usage, African deities, and the further reaches of scientific endeavour all being fair game.

    1. The anonymous rant above was mine. Just pressed “post” without going through the hoops. Apologies!

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