Times 25694 – Sting in the horn?

Posted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Another gentle start to the week, unless like me you were held up by the 1s. That said, a very enjoyable puzzle, which may be safely added to that burgeoning category, ‘suitable for those seeking to make the transition from the Telegraph’. 25 minutes.

Across

1 DEBT – nice cryptic definition to get you going (or me finished).
3 PRIMA FACIE – anagram* of MP+AFRICA+IE (‘that is’).
10 EXCERPT – R in EXCEPT (= apart from = ‘bar’).
11 ROLL-OUT – a nice expression that has been hijacked by its widespread use in PR (also its marine equivalent ‘launch’), where nothing is safe from being ‘rolled out’.
12 LABOUR INTENSIVE – okay not hard but rather fun.
13 R+ANKLE
14 UNICYCLE – ICY in UNCLE.
17 COHESION CO + (NOISE+H) reversed.
18 A+BOUND
21 UNKNOWN QUANTITY – occurring in the alphabet after v and w, x, y and z are the ‘unknown quantities’.
23 STARTLE – R and L in STATE.
24 MATINEE – IN+TEAM* + E.
25 LAST RESORT – you get LAST RESORT by rearranging ‘salt’.
26 IDOL – ‘I DO’ + L.

Down

1 DUELLER – a CD that is definite COD material. Bravo/a, setter!
2 BACKBENCH – BACK+BENCH; in case anyone doesn’t know, a cabinet minister sits on the front benches, while the other MPs chunter on the back benches.
4 RETAIN – the literal is ‘keep’; the wordplay requires you to delete the first two letters from [he]re [ye]t [ag]ain.
5 MERITING – ‘earning’; TIN in ME+RIG.
6 FILING CABINETS – ‘office-holders’; FILING+CAB+I+NETS.
7 CROCI – CROC (with the disingenuous tears) + I; what Hyacinth Bucket calls crocuses?
8 EXTREME – hidden.
9 TROUBLESHOOTER – HER+TOO+SUBTLE+OR*.
15 CAUTIONED – an even easier anagram, perchance? EDUCATION*
16 COUNTESS – Has the setter run out of steam? It’s COUNTS outside (‘without’) E/S.
17 COUNSEL – I think so. It’s NO+CLUES*.
19 DRY CELL – double definiton, the second multivalent.
20 MURMUR – 2 x crosswordland’s favourite word for odd, reversed.
22 KEATS – either I’m missing something, or this doesn’t quite work; the literal is ‘poet’, so the wordplay is required to be K (‘Kipling initially’) + YEATS (‘then Yeats’). Since that gives ‘Kyeats’, I think we need some indication that Yeats needs to be beheaded. (Well, I dare say the smart money was on me missing something and the clue seems to work if one takes account of the potential for ellipsis in the text: K (‘like Kipling initially’) + EATS (‘then [like] Yeats’). Thanks to Jack, Sotira and Keriothe.)

I’ll be in conference for a while, so will clear up typos etc later.

56 comments on “Times 25694 – Sting in the horn?”

  1. I was rather slow on this one and needed most of 50 minutes. I had no problem solving 1ac without checkers in place but 1dn was my last in.

    I too was puzzled by 22 but reading it as ‘Poet, like Kipling initially, then (like) Yeats’ it sort of made sense to me.

    There’s nothing wrong with ‘crocuses’ surely?

    Edited at 2014-01-27 02:29 am (UTC)

    1. Re-reading them, I realise my words are ambiguous. What I meant was that an aspiring social-climber might use ‘croci’ with its Latinised ending in preference to ‘crocuses’. (I have also removed the inverted commas around crocuses in the main text, as they weren’t helping!)

      Edited at 2014-01-27 03:02 am (UTC)

  2. 19:20 … I wouldn’t rate this as especially easy, by any means.

    Nice to see the MATINEE IDOL in the SW corner.

    Last in and COD to DUELLER. Very cunning. Puts one in mind of the Beeb’s latest enjoyable tosh The Musketeers (for which someone in the Guardian the other day came up with the wonderful new genre of ‘Baguette-i Western’).

    Edited at 2014-01-27 02:43 am (UTC)

    1. Just the other day I saw they used the word “be-merkined”. Only a matter of time before it turns up in a Groan puzzle?
  3. So with Sotira: not particularly easy. Some of it was … but you only need a couple of missing crossers to add to the overall time. In my case: 5dn/11ac (MERITING / ROLL-OUT). No reason why it was these two that provided the obstacle. It ‘s just like that some days.

    Good bits of clue writing in this one:
    — “a bit of work” for the def in 10ac.
    — “in case you may need one” for the def in 17dn.
    — getting “taken out of context” to be (erm) taken out of context in 8dn.

    — And, re the above problems, getting “first appearance of aircraft” to be the def rather than just the letter A. (Note to self: remember that TIN is money and that one meaning of ROUT is “disorderly retreat”.)

    No idea how 22dn works. Nice time Ulaca!

    Edited at 2014-01-27 04:20 am (UTC)

  4. 7d LOI, where for once running through the alphabet worked, although it took a while for CROC to register.1ac was my FOI, raising false hopes for a quick solve. I read KEATS as did Jack; seemed OK at the time. I suspected DUELLER early on, but again the wordplay eluded me for a long time; definite COD.
  5. 22D – did wonder for a while if the was a famous female called Yeats, ergo some poet called KLASS.
    Didn’t help the cause by putting the US spelling DUELIST in for 1D to begin with! (they’ve been pushing the Three Musketeers on Sky TV)
    But limped home, and not the slowest 600 for a change.
  6. Didn’t find this as easy as did our esteemed blogger. Was going ok but took ages to get DUELLER / EXCERPT. Not sure why.

    Also wasted time on EXTREME, where I actually looked for a hidden word but failed to see it. Can’t get much sloppier than that.

    Happy to give KEATS my seal of approval, which will no doubt come as a great relief to the setter.


  7. I too spent far too long on the last couple of words in the NW, ending with the 1s. KEATS in with a ?, RETAIN in with a tick, dnk that ROLL-OUT referred to aircraft. Note to self: ‘country’ doesn’t always mean the name of a specific country, Thanks for blogging!
  8. LOI and COD 1D. A pleasant start to the week. Despite Jack’s efforts, I still do not see 22D completely, although I wrote it in.
  9. Can’t say I found this easy either. 25 minutes and some tough going at times. I think 8D is rather good – very well hidden.

    I don’t like 1A – it simply isn’t accurate to say nobody wants debt. A modern economy can’t function without it and in times of high inflation it can be a real boon.

    Like others I just don’t understand 22D – my last in

  10. 29 minutes, slowed by DUELLER, DEBT and EXCERPT for 10 of those minutes.
    Good puzzle with no obscure words and some excellent surfaces / defs. Likewise wrote in KEATS without seeing the exact logic.
  11. 22min. : I’m with Jack on 22, which didn’t give me pause.
    Although I saw 1ac straightaway, I needed checkers to be sure there wasn’t anything better, so it went from FOI to LOI! (I agree 1dn was COD.)
  12. 16 mins but I also didn’t think it was that easy and I was very happy with my time.

    On first read-through of the acrosses IDOL was my FOI and I thought I was in for a stinker, but the checkers from that helped me complete the SE fairly quickly with the exception of MURMUR, which was actually my LOI, and after that I finally got onto the setter’s wavelength.

    Having said that, I did think of DEBT immediately but waited until I solved either 1dn or 2dn before I was confident enough to enter it. I thought there were some good definitions, like “office-holders” for 6dn and “insincere mourner” for part of 7dn, and the clues for LAST RESORT and DUELLER were excellent.

    Count me as another who was a little confused by the clue for KEATS.

  13. A pleasant, gentle start to the week, half an hour or so, over my morning cup(s) of tea. Waiting to be enlightened as to why KEATS works. Contrary to the majority, did not like DUELLER – ugly word, it should be duellist. But agree that CROCI is faux-correct and pretentious. Some nice misleading surfaces – BACKBENCHER had me barking up ecclesiastical trees for far too long. LOI DEBT, faute de mieux – not the best of definitions.

    Nice piece in the paper this morning (page 4) on the changeover of editors. “Mr Rogan is a particular fan of cryptic definitions”. You have been warned.

  14. 24m. I found this decidedly tough, but with no obscurity, which is quite a trick to pull off.
    I didn’t understand KEATS (last in) when solving but now that I do I think it’s fine.
    The definition of 1ac is just plain wrong, as anyone who knows how a leveraged buyout works will tell you.
    1dn, on the other hand, is that rare thing, a very good CD.

    Edited at 2014-01-27 11:48 am (UTC)

      1. I don’t see 22d as problematic at all. Isn’t it, as jackkt said first off, just standard ellipsis?

        Like Keats, initially, then [like] Yeats

        ie. like Keats in the initial position and thereafter like Yeats

        Edited at 2014-01-27 12:14 pm (UTC)

          1. You could take it either way — to mean Keats the poet or Keats the word. This being a crossword rather than a literary seminar, I went for the latter.
            1. Yes, I see what you, Jack and Keriothe are getting at (finally). Fortunately, given the checked letters, it was rather academic in the solve. A new clue type perhaps? The ellipsis clue or…the Keats.
        1. sotira,

          Thanks for the explanation but if this is what the setter intended, I think that it is a poor clue.

  15. Kipling was Joseph (Rudyard) = JK gives us like kipling initially then first off Yeats ?? Well I enjoyed it
  16. 10 minutes for a very Mondayish puzzle. My only question mark was, of course, for KEATS, and it remains there despite the explanations that have been given. Perhaps I’m simply not seeing it straight, so it is another of those occasions where I am at least better-informed if not necessarily wiser after coming here.
    1. The name KEATS is like Kipling initially, because it starts with a K. After the first letter, it’s like Yeats.
      I’m probably not helping…
      1. Yeah, I think I sort of see. Maybe.

        A propos of nothing, the recent story about Cambridge Council removing apostrophes from street names in order to standardise them for the emergency services (haven’t they somehow coped up till now – regardless, people are painting them back in?) reminded me of the area I used to know which had Kipling Close, Shelley Close etc…and an abomination with the street sign proclaiming Keat’s Close.

    1. A fan of CDs and setter anonymity, and a non-fan of themed puzzles. I’m warming to RR already.

      And every best wish to Richard Browne as he takes up for his ‘retirement’ job as a setter. Anyone who ‘doesn’t get Mephisto’ is already ticking one box.

    2. I’m very much pro RR having read this article. I actively dislike setters being identified so that some regulars start with preconceptions and others may feel excluded. If I want the themed puzzles that I enjoy on occasion I look elsewhere; I don’t want them in the Times. I also enjoy cryptic clues as a change from the standard, but no more than two or three per puzzle please, RR.

      Edited at 2014-01-27 02:08 pm (UTC)

    3. If the CDs are going to be as good as 1dn today, I don’t mind. But no puns on “Irish Setter”. Please!
  17. A Monday-ish 6:28 for me. 1a was my first one in but 1d did take longer. I am in the ‘not sure about how Keats works’ corner too.
  18. Oh no! Finally gave up in the NW with 3 to go. Does this mean I have to go back to the Daily Telegraph? Please don’t say it’s so!
    By the way, what are keat and yeat, and how do you kiple?
    1. I don’t think it was Kipling, but some playful writer around that time certainly made up the word “maffick”, because people kept asking him what he thought of Mafeking, and he said he didn’t know, as he’d never mafficked.

      One for the teenagers, there.

    2. I feel mortified. As penance I shall make myself read Endymion and Byzantium. As for JK, does he mean Rowling, or should that be Owling?
  19. OK – I’ll come in as the grump who didn’t like the CD for DUELLER – I got it because it seemed more appropriate than DWELLER which was the only other word that came to mind that fits. My beef with cryptic defs is that you get them or you don’t, and if you don’t there’s no other way in to the clue except guessing at checking letters.

    Grump out…

  20. Well, I like Keriothe’s effort at KEATS: the poet is like Kipling initially (also starts with K), then (i.e. thereafter) like (Y)EATS. It’s a bit of a long way round, but I’m in no doubt at all that’s what’s intended.

    Quite Mondayish, but a couple of crackers (even though I too prefer my DUELLIST).

  21. I’d never heard of duels being fought for satisfaction, but now I know, it’s a clever clue. Apart from the debt clue, an enjoyable crossword.
  22. Once I realised that 1dn was a CD I made the connection between a duel and one of the protagonists demanding satisfaction almost immediately, probably because of what I have read and watched over the years.
  23. Not easy here. About 45 minutes, ending with the CROCI, but that just after the DUELLER/EXCERPT crossing. I liked the DUELLER clue very much, and like others I just shrugged when entering KEATS. Regards to all.
    1. There was a time when someone who considered himself to have been insulted would demand satisfaction from his antagonist by challenging him to a duel, and the duellists would not attend this event all by themselves. Each would be accompanied by an assistant, called a “second”, and the seconds would distribute the weapons and make sure that everything was done by the rules, so to speak. So a dueller is someone who is hoping to obtain satisfaction (for an insult) with a second in attendance to help. Does that make it clearer?
  24. Thanks for all the efforts to explain 22d. I’ll 4d my opinion that it’s a stinker.
  25. Well, I’m glad some others found this tough. Under the hour, but only just, with EXCERPT holding me up unreasonably.

    I liked it. Slow, steady solve with no requirement to know the names of obscure cricketers or the capitals of former African countries.

    As for Keats being like Kipling, what’s orange and sounds like a parrot? A carrot. Ah well – it’s been a long day.

    Today’s Award for Outstanding Stupidity goes to a gentleman from Sawston. You may have wondered why jars of rollmop herrings need to carry the words “Remove wooden skewer before consuming”. Well, I treated the answer this afternoon.

    1. Make a note of the clue to EXCERPT, as variants of it crop up pretty regularly.

      The poor chap probably interpreted the instruction as: “Remove wooden skewer before consuming it”. I blame the English language.

  26. 10:31 for me (+ 0:39 waiting for my Submit to take – but at least it didn’t time out, as happened with today’s T2 quickie which I had to type in again). After another ludicrously slow start, I eventually got going and enjoyed this one.

    No problem with 22dn, which seemed just fine (if a little obvious).

  27. I blame inbreeding.

    I often suffer pangs of guilt at getting in the way of natural selection.

  28. Done correctly in 51 minutes, but I didn’t really enjoy this puzzle. In Germany there is a variety of crossword puzzle called “thinking around corners” in which the clues are not straight definitions but rather consist of humorous allusions to the answers in a rather haphazard way. But whenever I tell my German friends how wonderful cryptic crosswords are, they tend to think that the German puzzles I just described are pretty much the same thing. That is far from the truth; the German puzzles lack the rigid constraints placed on cryptic clues which turn them into exquisite poetry. The satisfaction of a good British cryptic crossword clue is that it says exactly what it means, in two different ways, usually in a very witty fashion, yet manages to hide that information within a plausible surface reading often very successfully, even though it is actually in plain sight.

    Today’s crossword had far too many German-style clues for my taste, I am sorry to say. Not bad clues necessarily, but you did have to point your mind in just the right direction and have the right associations with no second chance (for example in the clue for DEBT), whereas usually you simply must read the definitions very very carefully and there is always a second chance.

  29. Surprised nobody has complained much on 21ac. To limit ‘unknown quantity’ to a set containing only x, y and z is absurd – mathematicians make use of the whole alphabet, and when they’re done with that, borrow the Greek one too. The clue might as well be ‘unpredictable type, one of those preceding VW’.

    Worse than the Yeats clue, IMO.

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