Times 25,570 – What Happened To Charles Bergstresser?

Solving time 25 minutes

A very middle of the road puzzle. Not a 15D like 16D but not a beast either. Not much to 19D about unfortunately and no major talking points except the setter finding octagonal shapes unusual.

Across
1 HEARTY – HE-ARTY; HE=His Excellency=Ambassador;
4 DOLPHIN – (go)DOLPHIN; the Godolphin Arabian was one of three stallions that were the founders of the modern thoroughbred horse racing bloodstock;
9 NEVER – RE-VEN reversed; VEN=venerable=Archbishop;
10 EDWARDIAN – (dead in)* surrounds WAR; strictly 1901-1910;
11 YORKSHIRE – YORK-S-HIRE; bowl=YORK (cricket jargon); as distinct from its beer the cuisine of Yorkshire is poor fare and Yorkshire pudding is up there with the worst of it;
12 SWISS – SWI’S-S; Westminster post code=SW1;
13 OPEN – O(PE)N;
14 SHOCKINGLY – S(HOCK)INGLY;
18 BACKSTROKE – BACK-ST(R)OKE; STOKE (City) is a football team from the city of Stoke-on-Trent in the Potteries;
20 KRIS – hazard=risk then move the K to gtve this Malay knife;
23 SHORE – two meanings; 1=a shore beam; 2=leave on shore;
24 COWARDICE – C(h)O(WARD)ICE; protege=WARD;
25 OCTAGONAL – (L)OC(TAG-ON)AL; why “unusual” – the setter can’t have seen many crystals;
26 NAMED – N-A-MED;
27 FREESIA – F-(easier)*;
28 THINGY – THIN-G(u)Y;
 
Down
1 HONEYCOMB – cryptic definition based on queen bee activity;
2 ADVERSE – A(D)VERS-E;
3 THRUSH – T(oug)H-RUSH; the mistle thrush;
4 DOWSE – sounds like DOW’s. The Dow Jones is the US Footsie founded by Charles Dow, Edward Jones and the forgotten Charles Bergstresser;
5 LORDSHIP – LORDS-HIP;
6 HAILING – HAIL-IN-G(hana);
7 NONES – NO(N)ES;
8 PERISHER – two meanings 1=dying (croaking) 2=oldish slang for an irritating child;
15 CAKEWALK – CAKE-(LAW reversed)-(kir)K; Brownie=sickly type of CAKE; a dance;
16 YESTERDAY – (try a seedy)*;
17 ASPERGES – AS-PER-G-ES; tn French “thou art” = tu ES; Christian ritual;
19 CHORTLE – CHOR(LT reversed)E;
21 RAILMAN – RA-IL-MAN; RA=Royal Artillery;
22 WRENCH – W(R)ENCH;
23 SPOOF – FO-OPS all reversed; FO=Foreign Office;
24 CANNA – CAN-NA; tin=CAN; sodium=NA; obscure plant better known as an island;

35 comments on “Times 25,570 – What Happened To Charles Bergstresser?”


  1. … and I had two wrong letters: ‘railmen’ for my Italian island (!), and ‘aspergms’ for some sort of French art. Was totally caught out with the ‘es’ (despite having done a French degree many moons ago…). Also, I’d not heard of the ritual.

    Also, didn’t parse DOLPHIN, NEVER (thought it was something to do with REV), EDWARDIAN, and didn’t know that there was such a thing as a SHORE beam. Yes, I agree, the ‘unusual’ in 25a was misleading.

  2. Still struggling with the on-line version and managed another couple of typos. Now my printer’s back in action, we’re bound to get stinkers. Still, a good puzzle on the easy side today.

    Had no idea about the eponymous thoroughbred (4ac). Only the chap of the same surname, Hugh Godolphin, from Pynchon’s V. 15dn (CAKEWALK) is an odd clue — including a part-DBE. But is there any other word that fits C•K•••••, apart from the Bluebottle-esque CAKEHOLE?

    Didn’t really understand 9ac (NEVER). The misleading REV bit seemed obvious but the rest was baffling. Thanks to Jim for sorting it.

    ASPERGES is a bit obscure but it cropped up recently in the Graun Weekly. So I happened to know it. And the cryptic def at 1dn? — “What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence”.

    Edited at 2013-09-03 08:34 am (UTC)

    1. Had to look that quote up. More of a fan of his fellow-Austrian emigree to England (via New Zealand) myself.

      And, naturellement, I like 1dn!

  3. Thanks, jimbo, for a provocative and helpful blog! To my surprise I was all correct on this with notable elements of clues not understood (the correct reference to GODOLPHIN – I thought it referred to the stables, BEAM = ‘shore beam’, etc): so thanks for putting me right. KRIS and CANNA I knew only from these crosswords.
    1. …and in case they come up in the future, the other two original thoroughbreds were the Darley Arabian and the Byerley Turk. Evidence of a misspent youth and indeed later.
  4. 54 minutes, held up a bit at the end by the clever RAILMAN and the excellent PERISHER.

    Finding OCTAGONALs odd is one thing, but finding Yorkshire pud unpalatable is close to heretical! Can, and should, be eaten with ALL roasts.

  5. A pleasant spin that I found about as straightforward as yesterday’s, 17dn last in.
    However I thought 11ac rather a good clue, and was shocked – shocked! – by the unwarranted attack on yorkshire pudding by our illustrious blogger. I have been there and eaten that overcooked mess too Jim, but it is not always like that. In fact nowadays Yorkshire has some of the best restaurants in Britain and some of the original gastropubs.
    I well remember my (Yorkshire) grandmother having YP with gravy as a starter, a plate of tripes and YP with custard after, as a pudding..
      1. someone (Eric Idle? Terry Jones?) appeared in a number of their sketches, looking *extremely* like my grandmother and not behaving too differently, either 🙂
        1. Your gran’s name wasn’t Mandy, was it? That was Brian’s mum, who wasn’t too bothered about the myrrh…
  6. I finished all but 8dn and the parsing of 25ac in 40 minutes, then having spent another 10 thinking about 8dn, I used aids rather than waste any more time as I was getting nowhere with it. The clue consists of two somewhat obscure definitions both of which I had considered but I never came up with a word to define both.

    25ac just had to be OCTAGONAL but for ages I could only explain the word “shape” in the clue. I am going to cry “foul” at the inclusion of “unusual”. After this and “seaside” yesterday I am starting to wonder if the crossword editor was on holiday when this week’s puzzles were passed for publication.

    Also unknown were ASPERGES and CANNA (not known to my spell checker either, I note as I type) but in each case the wordplay was helpful so they gave me no problems.

  7. 15m but with one error.
    I had most of this done very quickly, but then got thoroughly bogged down with two left. OCTAGONAL looked like the obvious answer, but I was thoroughly put off by the word “unusual” and struggled mightily with the wordplay because I failed for ages to see “tag on” as “trail behind”. I also had serious doubts about ASPERGES: the wordplay suggested it but it’s French for asparagus, which seemed an odd name even by the standards of Christian rituals.
    Eventually I figured out the wordplay for 25ac but it was all to no avail. I had put FREISEA at 27ac. This demonstrates that I know more about cows than plants, but not enough about either to construct a word that actually exists. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
    Jimbo, I can only conclude from your comment about Yorkshire pudding that you’ve never had a good one. When done badly they’re like chewing putty, but done properly they are surely impossible to dislike.
    1. Well, I have tried and particularly when in Yorkshire. The goo normally arrives with over cooked beef, over cooked vegetables and all swimming in an awful brown liquid. Circa 50 years ago in my actuarial phase I suggested adding the regular consumption of this stuff to the list of adverse mortality factors but the Institute, perhaps wisely, did not take up my suggestion
      1. Sounds like I’m right! If the word “goo” applies in any way the stuff should not be eaten. What you need are the words “crunch” and “fluff”, and the standard has to be high. The last time I tried to make Yorkshire puddings I forgot that I’d put them in and opened the oven half-way through. The result went straight in the bin.
        In my book over-cooked beef is a mortal sin.

        Edited at 2013-09-03 08:37 am (UTC)

  8. Jimbo you made me smile with your actuarial proposal. Several other regional delicacies spring to mind as statistical morbidity factors!

    21 minutes with OCTAGONAL not parsed but guessed.

    Edited at 2013-09-03 08:49 am (UTC)

  9. 11 minutes – I had seen ASPERGES, PERISHED,and CANNA in other crosswords recentushly so they all came to mind. I guess octagonal is a weird shape for a yorkshire pudding?
  10. A curious mixture of the very easy and challenging. 12A (SWISS), though a nice surface read, seemed so absurdly obvious that I hesitated to enter it until the very end feeling sure that there must be a catch. On reflection, perhaps a sort of double bluff by the setter? And, as Jimbo intimates, 16d (YESTERDAY) must be one of the most transparent anagrams in a long while. But PERISHER, CAKEWALK and CHORTLE were all excellent, and the obscurities eminently accessible via the wordplay. I agree with most above in not finding anything particularly unusual about an octagon shape-wise.
  11. 26 mins but I felt myself dozing off midway through it so I should have been faster. That’ll teach me for staying up late watching the closure of the transfer window.

    I finished in the SW with the CHORTLE/SHORE/ASPERGES crossers. I’m annoyed with myself for not getting the latter sooner because it has appeared elsewhere in the last couple of weeks.

    I’m in the “when a Yorkshire pudding is done well it is excellent” camp. I like the idea of making actuarial adjustments to take into account regional “delicacies”. The deep-fried Mars Bar would be right up there.

    1. As a United supporter, I’m thrilled we bagged Fellaini rather than a world-class player like Özil and saved a few bob.

      Edited at 2013-09-03 12:03 pm (UTC)

  12. 12 mins with my last ones in being the SW corner. I don’t like gravy so never have to suffer a soggy Yorkshire pud – my mum used to make beautiful ones.
  13. A little harder than yesterday’s, though not much. I finished in 30 minutes, but screwed up completely on 21. Despite the obvious IL reference I entered REISMAN (IS in RE & MAN), thinking there might be some Italian of that name, though it’s admittedly a rather Germanic name, and anyway the clue lacked any occuptional field so I should have been less hasty. Definitely an unforced error.
    I liked the deceptive clue for 27, which had me tentatively entering ER for the last 2 letters before I saw EASIER as anagram fodder.

  14. If I had a pound for every time I’ve misspelt FREESIA or FUCHSIA in a crossword, I’d have enough for a full Sunday roast and a pint in a Yorkshire pub (so just the pint down south).

    I followed keriothe’s lead with a ‘freisia’. Maybe it’s time I accepted reality and stopped ‘solving’ anagrams in my head. Something about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results …

    Thanks, jimbo, for the Johnsonian quip which actually made me chortle.

  15. 12:55 so marginally more taxing than yesterday’s but still on the easy side of average.

    Thanks, Jimbo, for explaining never and octagonal.

    At 6d I was expecting the answer to be the capital of Ghana beginning HI (greeting) which I actually wrote in but I was forced to rethink when Edwardian then gave me HII????

    At 18 I thought the support had to be BRA so started writing breaststroke.

    COD to thingy.

  16. “the cuisine of Yorkshire is poor fare and Yorkshire pudding is up there with the worst of it” – Nah, thee’s wrang there me old china ; our nosh is top notch.
  17. Enough others have weighed in on YP so I’ll refrain. My beef with Jimbo is the description of brownies as sickly. They are, and should be, gooey, but they are quite delicious and they don’t need to be over-sweet. Although I’ll admit they could well be an actuarial factor.

    I’d been pretty sure I got “asperges” from Barbara Pym, although when I went to confirm it Google tried to direct me to “asperger’s syndrome”.

    The octagonal stop sign is such a ubiquitous thing I really do wonder what the setter was thinking in saying “unusual”.

    18.18 for me following a 13 minute run yesterday so I have a feeling the rest of the week could be brutal.

    Edited at 2013-09-03 01:41 pm (UTC)

    1. One mention of brownies and I’m immediately transported back to a favourite episode of Frasier – “High Holidays”. Frasier’s dad getting unknowingly stoned, Niles getting ‘stoned’ through the power of suggestion, and Eddie the talking dog are memories to savour.

      I realise not all brownies contain pot but I just can’t think of them any other way now.

      1. Pot brownies also featured in an episode of Arrested Development (“Afternoon Delight”), so the evidence is certainly mounting that pot is an essential ingredient, at least in America(n comedies).
  18. As a Lancastrian I’m with anonymous – great stuff not even beginning to mention Yorkshire Tea, the recently developed Yorkshire Blue cheese and the delight of a breakfast or high tea at Betty’ s
  19. Never had a YP, but I did like the deviousness of the clue. Knew the name Godolphin and finally saw how the clue worked, but DNK the horse part. A lot more enjoyable a puzzle than yesterday’s.
  20. 20.46 and surprised to know asperges. Fascinating stuff, all this about Yorkshire Pudding (strewth). Liked the little perisher.
  21. About 30 minutes, ending with PERISHER, for which I didn’t know the bratty child meaning. Other than that, not too tough, but certainly no walkover, either. The only Yorkshire pudding I ever had I made myself, and I thought it was pretty good. Regards.
  22. Wanted the answer to be ‘gnome’ but there was no justification for and I suppose it is non pc now. Geoffrey

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