Times 25434 – Allsop?

Solving time : 8 minutes 41 seconds, which still put me at second on the leaderboard as I type, so this was on the easier side of things. There’s quite a few gentle double definitions, particularly in the top half and not that many uncommon words, so a second run through with a look at checking letters polished things off.

There were still a few sighs of relief when I saw it come back as correct, particularly the line of 20 and 22 where the wordplay seemed to leave no other possibility, but you never know. Three cryptic definitions seems a bit high for the Times.

Away we go!

Across
1 let’s begin with the across omission
7 ETA: hidden reveresed in socrATEs
9 STEAM IRON: cryptic def
10 MOUNT: double definition
11 SOPRANO: OP(e)RA in S,NO
12 LANDING: double def
13 FICHE: IF (Kipling poem) revesrsed, then CHE
15 ADMISSION: or A.D. MISSION
17 RENASCENT: (EARNS)*, CENT
19 GENUS: GENIUS without the I(ego)
20 GONERIL: one of Lear’s daughters – the GONER is someone about to lose their life, then half of evIL
22 ASSUMES: U(university), M(imic) in ASSES
24 TAROT: one of those reverse wordplay clues, as it’s A,R in TOT
25 GOOSANDER: 0,0 (eggs) in (GARDEN’S)*
27 ELM: MILE reversed without the 1
28 MASTERPIECE: (SPARE,TIME)*, CE
 
Down
1 COS(y)
2 EYE UP: sounds like “high up” in cockney
3 RAMP(incline),AGE
4 HARROGATE: HARROW(school) without W, then GATE
5 our down omission
6 REMANDS: MAN in REDS
7 ERUDITION: EDITION around RU
8 ANT,AGONISES
11 SUFFRAGETTE: cryptic definition
14 CONUNDRUM: NUN(sister) in COD(jest, trick), then RUM(odd)
16 METHADONE: (MET,HEAD,ON)*
18 STRATUM: the definition is LEVEL, so it’s STRATUS(cloud) shortened over M(ountain)
19 GAS LAMP: I got this from the definition, and had to work out the wordplay for the blog… it’s AS,L(uminance) in Mrs. GAMP from Martin Chuzzlewit
21 LAGOS: GAL reversed, then OS – in Portugal
23 MADGE: EG, DAM all reversed – this also took a little finding, Margaret is derived from the Greek for PEARL
26 RYE: hidden in farmeR YEarly

46 comments on “Times 25434 – Allsop?”

  1. 34 minutes after losing my way for some time in the SW quarter. Just couldn’t think of the ‘X factor’ reference until most of the checkers were in place, then experienced a massive “D’oh!” moment. Great clue, and I liked FICHE too – my LOI.

    I had no problems solving 23 but must say the cryptic side of it seems particularly obscure to me. I’m not entirely sure I ever knew MADGE is short for Margaret, never mind its bloomin’ Greek meaning!

    1. According to the fount of all online knowledge, Madge is short for Madeline (itself an anglicised version of ‘Magdalene’), Marjorie, and Margaret.

      So, as you might expect of such an erudite fellow, Barry Humphries was spot on when he shortened Marjorie Kiri, née McWhirter, to Madge Allsop.

      1. Doing the exercise the other way around, according to said fount, there are a gazillion alternatives to and diminutives for “Margaret”. How we got “Peggy” and “Peg” whatever-divinity-you-believe-in knows. I shall say nothing of “Tita”. (There … I didn’t say it.)
        1. Surely this could be used as a moniker (monica?) for any, um, well-endowed lady…
  2. 31 minutes but done for by Madge (saw ‘dam’ and ‘say’, but my lack of mineralogical knowledge had the final say), chucking in ‘Madie’.

    Liked the X-factor clue a lot more than the show itself.

    Edited at 2013-03-28 02:05 am (UTC)

  3. My usual complaint, I’m afraid, about the cryptic defs: three of the buggers today (1ac, 9ac, 11dn) — as George notes — and I didn’t even like the X Factor malarky. Sorry but I really think the dog needs to be able to see the rabbit.

    A bit of pondering about GAS LAMP as to where the literal lay. Started by wrongly assuming “source of luminance” and wondering how ASL or SLA could be a bright object. (An astronomical abbreviation perhaps?) Nice deceptive cluing then. “Dons” in 22ac was also good and I think that’s my COD.

    Edited at 2013-03-28 07:48 am (UTC)

  4. … not to mention, her only non-silent one. Emily Perry, the actress who played Dame Edna’s sidekick, high-kicks her way on Comic Relief in her ninetieth year.
  5. There is indeed a Lagos in Portugal but I prefer the Lagos in Nigeria which is a seaport rather than a seaside resort.
    1. I didn’t know there was a Lagos in Portugal. The things one learns here! Thanks for that. If anyone’s interested, and wishes to make good the omission, Lagos, whether Portuguese or Nigerian, is not included in the names of ports listed in Bradford’s.

  6. All ok today, couldn’t parse GAS LAMP, didn’t know the pearl ref for MADGE (also of course short for Ms Ciccone, the ageing popster), and thought the def for GONERIL was a bit weak. But now I see it’s an &lit (is that the right term?), so that’s ok then.
  7. Is anyone else experiencing display problems so that the blog and comments area of TftT pages look as if they have been written with a typewriter that needs its ribbon replacing? Lower case w’s are particularly noticeable. This has only started recently, possibly since updating to FF 19.0.2. It doesn’t seem to affect other sites.
    1. No problems here either. Good luck with the fix for that, Jack. If I could offer help, I would.
  8. Ducked under the quarter-hour by a couple of seconds so a satisfying run. I often manage a fair trot and then pull up at some fence or clatter over and fall; so a relief. Nothing really to say about the clues; though I did quite like the X factor.
  9. I wish I’d timed this one because it might have been a personal best. No more than 20 minutes. I was on the setter’s wavelength all the way through and my only sticking points were Renascent, Remands, Gas Lamp and LOI Goneril (where my first stab General didn’t make sense). It helped that the “quite the opposite” device in 24ac appeared yesterday (Amble) so I got that quickly and that opened up the SW corner.
    George, thanks for explaining Gas Lamp and Madge. I didn’t fully understand those two.
  10. Just over 15 minutes and feeling like a slight underachiever – so much so that I initially read my analogue time as 10. Not sure where the time went, though with the crossing letters at 18 I was wondering whether SCROTUM had a meteorological second life. That sort of thing can be really off-putting. MOUNT was last in as I struggled to make it mean “backing”.
    GAS LAMP has a pretty neat clue, but I don’t think it’s quite an &lit – bright object being the definition and the rest the wordplay. Perhaps if it started “What Dickensian…” it would have been, and more elegant withal, enough to make it my CoD.
    SUFFRAGETTE gets it, though, even if it has the air of a clue just waiting to happen.
  11. A fast solve for me, with so many answers going in on definition and checkers alone. An exception was MADGE – had no idea what the pearl reference was but the wordplay didn’t seem to offer any other possibilities. As mentioned anonymously above, I would have thought that LAGOS was the one in Nigeria. STEAM IRON raised a smile.
  12. Include me as another who wondered if Spike Milligan’s “wrinkled old retainer” might provide the answer to 18 down. Knew the “pearl” reference in 23 from the origin of the word “margarine”.

    By way of a change, I’ve been trying to solve by working through the clues in order, then going round repeatedly until the puzzle is complete. Doesn’t improve my time, though: still 25 minutes!

    1. If speed is what you are after, a system that takes account of the availability of checking letters, particularly first letters or unusual letters, must surely be faster…
      1. I work down the acrosses, then the downs, then for some reason back up the acrosses from bottom to top. Only then do I look at individual corners, available checking letters etc. It’s what I have done for years and years and does seem to do the trick, although one of the setters for whom I test puzzles said the other week that he thought my solving method was ‘weird’!! Whatever works for you, is what I say!
  13. 15 minutes for an easy puzzle that started badly but improved rapidly.

    Let’s clear the air, I don’t like weak cryptic definitions and for both 1A and 9A to fit that bill 8D’s me. And speaking of 8D, does “not placate” really mean “antagonise”?

    Had no idea what MADGE was all about but the cryptic was obvious. Now that I do understand it I feel this is knowledge I could have done without. This puzzle is not a 28A

  14. … is how I retrieved the reference, being a facetious sort of a swine, though perhaps Jimbo is right. I was whelmed in places, under-so in others.

    15 minutes.

    Many thanks,
    Chris G.

    1. Setter wins this time, 13 minutes but having filled in everything else without too much agonising, I simply couldn’t see past GENERAL, even though I knew there was no justification for it at all.
  15. A puzzle that takes me only 20 minutes when I’m making no effort to rush must be very easy. I found it a steady solve from start to finish.

    I thought the cryptic definitions in 1a and 11dn were OK (in fact I rather liked 11dn), but I agree with dorsetjimbo that 9 is weak. The rest were fine.

  16. An easier puzzle, certainly, but not that easy for me. Fantastic time, George! I rather liked the cryptic defs that irritated others – but this is very much a matter of personal taste, I guess. I happened to know the literary refs and MADGE was perfectly get-able without knowing (which I didn’t) the pearl connection). As puzzles go, not a 28 ac perhaps, but I thought there were a lot of good surface readings.

  17. 9:16 .. I liked it, naturally.

    I was going to make STEAM IRON my COD but I don’t want to ANTAGONISE Jimbo (or is it ANTAGONIZE? – my eternal quandary over this having been recently exacerbated by watching an old Inspector Morse episode in which the identity of a blackmailer is deduced by his ‘illiterate’ spelling of ‘sympathize’ with a penultimate ‘s’).

    Portugal’s Lagos was once a great port, and in my misspent youth was a point of departure for Morocco, but I gather its role even as a ferry terminal is all but done.

    1. Sotira, Great time. Interesting this -ISE versus -IZE thing. I doubt that Morse’s evidence for the identity of the blackmailer would be regarded as conclusive if offered in court today. The latest edition of the Compact OED allows both “sympathize” and “sympathise” as educated usage. The general advice on this side of the Atlantic now seems to be to always use -ISE except in the case of a few words which must still end in -IZE (e.g. “capsize”).This is because there are a large number of verbs in British English that must take the -ISE ending. In the USA, by contrast, -IZE is nearly always preferred. It seems that the old distinction turned on whether the verb in question was deemed to be derived from an ancient Greek root (in which case -IZE) or from the French via Latin (in which case -ISE). These days not many of us are familiar with ancient Greek – unlike Morse – and that, I guess, is the thinking behind the trend towards making -ISE the default ending, at least over here. It simply makes life easier.
      1. Ah, and more’s the pity, Mike (re the Greek).

        My troubles began at school where most of my teachers subscribed to -ise while my favourite English teacher was a stickler for -ize. My resulting preference for -ize was compounded when, as a cub reporter on the Mummerset Gazette, I was told on my first day that The Times’ style guide recommended -ize and that therefore nothing else would do.

        As a Brit now living in north America, it’s terribly confusing.

        1. Yes, I can see the potential for confusion, though as I understand it you can’t go far wrong in the US if you always plump for -IZE. Britain and America, as someone once said (GBS?), are two countries separated by a common language.

          As a journalist (now retd) for 34 years on The Times, I can confirm that you are quite right about the old style book’s insistence on -IZE where etymologically required. I still have a battered copy of the 1970 edition on my bookshelves and it has two pages of near-incomprehensible explanation of when to use the one ending and when the other. I am told that the latest edition has moved with the times (so to speak) and gone for the universalisation of -ISE. Sensible in my view, but no doubt Morse is turning in his grave and crying “dumbing down!”

          1. Heh, I’m sure you’re right about Morse. Perhaps he ‘died’ at the right time. Thank you for confirming that my equally charming, if somewhat unreliable, rural editor was right (about The Times of the time, at least).

            You must pass on a little more from that treasure trove of correctness whenever the opportunity arises.

    2. My 1977 Shorter Oxford always gives -ize in preference to -ise; for example, Cauterize … Also –ise. It only lists, say, Acclimatize and Bowdlerize, however, with no -ise alternative.

      A random selection from my shelves of books published in England seems to show a preference for -ize before about 1950, then -ise till about 2000, when -ize begins to make a comeback.

      I find the problem with -ize (which I always used to prefer) is that some know-it-all invariably accuses you of “American usage”, which displays the ignorance I always associate with folk who are forever spotting imagined solecisms as a way of showing their superiority.

  18. Is it Milligan? The only reference to “Old Scrotum, the wrinkled retainer” that I’m familiar with is in Viv Stanshall’s Sir Henry at Rawlinson End.
    1. It’s probably a joke that has been around for years; I associate it with Milligan and Sellers, though I might be wrong. Milligan often slipped such things past the censor into The Goon Show, though you can find them elsewhere, as many were familiar to ex-servicemen from wartime.

      I recall, for example, the useless juggling act of Steel, Novak and Good appearing in several different shows.

  19. 10:14 with admission and gas lamp from definition and Goneril and Madge from wordplay.

    I quite like the ironing clue as well.

  20. A bit less than 20 minutes, ending with the GOOSANDER/GAS LAMP crossing. I’d forgotten about the bird, and the parsing of GAS LAMP was beyond me, so wordplay alone for that (and MADGE too). Apart from those, pretty much a breeze of a solve for today’s offering. Nice time, George, and regards to everyone else.
  21. Not much to say, 17 minutes no unknown words, liked SUFFRAGETTE best.

    As far as a discussion on solving methods goes, I fast-read all the clues, write in any instantly twigged, then work from the checking letters (especially unusual consonants) in no special fashion until it’s finished.

  22. 8:40 for me – again not a total disaster, but I should have been a lot faster. I made extraordinarily heavy weather of 1ac (especially as I failed to solve 6dn straight off by reading “soldiers” instead of “soldier”), and generally felt old and tired. (Sigh!) Nice puzzle though.

    Unless I’m going for a clean sweep (in which case I start with the first across clue and then keep selecting the clue with the most promising checked letters in its answer as the one to tackle next), I usually go through the first few across clues before switching to the downs, and then switch back to the remaining acrosses – after which it’s wherever the mood takes me.

  23. …that nobody groaned at the lameness of the METHADONE anagram.

    Really – take one letter, move to end – can we really call that an anagram?!

  24. There’s noticeably a bundle to know about this. I assume you made particular nice points in features also.

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