Times 25268 – Slugs with silly tails

Author   daveperryPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Solving time: 33:58 – with one careless mistake.

An enjoyable puzzle on the whole that I found fairly straightforward. I failed to fully analyse 26a until post-solve, throwing in GASTROPODS and moving swiftly on. I suspect I may not be the only person to make that mistake. But then I reckon the setter and/or editor has made a mistake with the tense in 27, so it’s one each.

There seemed to be quite a lot of anagrams and homophones today, in complete contrast to yesterday, and this one was certainly not as clever, but good fun nonetheless.

There were a couple of new words for me – MATELOT for a seaman, and PROPELLER-HEAD for a nerd.

cd = cryptic def., dd = double def., rev = reversal, homophones are written in quotes, anagrams as (–)*, and removals like this

Across
1 BEET = “BEAT”
3 CROWN + DERBY
9 CHIN(W)A + catchinG
11 IN + niGht + RAIN
12 PROPELLER + HEAD
14 Case + REEL
15 TOLERANCE = gOaLiE in TRANCE
17 EIDERDOWN = (I WONDERED)*
19 shOUTER – I wasn’t sure about ‘objective’ as a definition. The Outer is part of a target, but surely the objective would be the inner rather than the outer. Unless there’s another meaning that I’m missing.
21 BREATHALYSING = (YEAR’S BAN LIGHT)* – a very neat semi-&lit anagram
24 MATE + LOT
25 AMERICA = M in A + ERICA
26 GASTROPODA = A + DO + PORT + SAG all rev
27 BLUE = “BLEW” – This looks like a mistake to me. I’m guessing the clue should have read ‘spent’ rather than ‘spend’, otherwise the tense is wrong. There’s also a definition by example that some may object to.
Down
1 BACK(PACK)ER
2 EPIc + TOME
4 RIGOLETTO = GO in (TITLE OR)*
5 WHIRR = “WERE”
6 DAGUERREOTYPE = (EUROPE + TRAGEDY)* – although I needed a dictionary to confirm the spelling.
7 R(W)AND + A + N – Note that ‘Northern’ forms part of the wordplay, and not the definition, as Rwanda is not in North Africa.
8 YA(N)K – ‘Yack’ is probably more common in this sense, but ‘Yak’ is perfectly fine too. Another DbE here.
10 WHEELER + DEALER
13 RETROGRADE = (ORDER + GREAT)*
16 L(END + A + H)AND
18 DEBATES = DATES about BE rev
20 TRI(V + I)AL – V for ‘see’ often catches out the unwary. It’s an abbreviation for the latin word vide.
22 TOT + UP – A well hidden definition
23 SMUG = GUMS rev

47 comments on “Times 25268 – Slugs with silly tails”

  1. Mac Oxford has: OUTER, “objective or physical; not subjective”.

    I think I’ve heard “to blew” (not sure of spelling) meaning to fritter away. Strine again?*

    The Scots and some others won’t like WHIRR = “were”.

    Back later in the day.

    *On edit: Aust. Nat. Dict. has both “blue” and “blew” for “to spend lavishly”. It says: see OEDS vol2. And “Not excl. Austral”.

    Edited at 2012-09-14 12:44 am (UTC)

    1. Outer – Yes, I’ll go with that. That definition isn’t in my Chambers, but the online Oxford gives it. Plus, as has been pointed out further down, it is quite possible for a darts player to target the outer bull if looking for a finishing double.
      Blue – I’m still not buying that one, I’m afraid. Again that meaning of blew is not in Chambers, or any of the online dictionaries I’ve checked. My dictionary does list blew(2) as an archaic spelling of blue(1), but spend lavishly comes under blue(2) not blue(1). And even if this was a valid meaning, why would the setter choose this over the infinitely more accessible one for the sake of one letter which doesn’t affect the surface of clue one bit?
  2. Hoorah – got there today, and all correct, thanks to some long anagrams that I was eventually able to work out from no givens but only on the 4th or 5th viewing. No unknown words for me and quite science-skewed, which helps.

    I can see people entering EPISODE for 2dn.

    19ac – Aiming at the Outer in darts, in order to score 25, is a common feature of many checkouts. But a slightly loose or unclear definition, I’d agree.

    27ac – Also agree the tense doesn’t smell right.

    1. Fair enough, but – for the sake of one letter – it seems a strange stylistic choice to make. Surely far better to go with the more well-known meaning, as it affects the cryptic reading not one jot.
    2. That’s 24986 by the way, not 24968. I’ll grant that blue = waste is OK. But the “it’s said” here surely implies a homophone, and blew = waste is not OK so far as I can see.
  4. Was so busy congratulating myself on not falling into the GASTROPODS trap that I didn’t really think through my entry of DERROGATE at 13d. I thought it might be an alternate meaning… and an alternate spelling… apart from that, I nailed it.

    Took me 21:24 to nearly get it right.

    1. I also thought that DERROGATE sounded like a proper word. Fortunately corrected it in time. Ann
  5. 7dn accounted for the last 10 minutes of my 50 minute solve. I was held up along the way by all the 13-letter answers and for once I wished I had paid more attention to the surface reading at 21ac which would surely have steered me far sooner towards the area of police activity I was looking for in the available anagrist.

    I was nearly caught out by GASTROPODA and failed to parse 16dn where I was convinced the state in question was North Dakota, so I had AH going up inside A ND leaving me wondering how ‘wind’ = LEND.

    I took BLUE as a homophone for ‘blew’ to account for “it’s said” although either spelling is correct for “spend recklessly” and they are both in OED.

    Never heard of PROPELLER HEAD.

    Another very nice puzzle to round off an enjoyable week.

    Edited at 2012-09-14 01:32 am (UTC)

  6. I found this considerably more of a challenge than yesterday’s, getting all bar 6 dn in 45 minutes and giving up with that left to do, having been tricked by not knowing the target word into thinking the literal was ‘shot’ and therefore not being able to twig that ‘Europe’ had to join ‘tragedy’ as anagrist. On my post-solve check, I found I’d missed out MATELOT, and that may have eluded me too, as I wasn’t aware that ‘lot’ could mean ‘set’ until checking in ODO and administering the requisite kick to self.

    I liked the trickery in RWANDAN but my COD goes to WHIRR – and not just because it will annoy the Scots! I trusted the setter on 19 and 27ac – generally the wise thing to do – and my trust turned out to be well founded.

  7. 27 minutes, but could have been quicker if I hadn’t confidently put LAMB at 1ac. Nice puzzle, tricky but fair although I’m still uncertain about the correct parsing of 27.
      1. OED, which Jack has [access to] and I don’t
        OED online is available where I live through my public library card, along with many other standard reference books. Worth checking out and a reason for keeping our superb public library service
        1. I believe I have to pay as I live in HK. Checked the OED website and was met with a large SUBSCRIBE button.

          Edited at 2012-09-15 04:06 am (UTC)

  8. I might have come here arguing the case for BEEF (with a French pronunciation and a grimace) at 1a had I not fallen into the EPISODE trap at 2d, with no idea how the S got in to a short epic and an ODE. If only they’d publish the shorter one, I’d be home and dry, except that the definition’s not right either.
    So 25 minutes of pleasantly wasted time, even managing to feel superior about spotting the A at the end of the slimy ones.
    I’d heard of PROPELLER HEAD but never made the connection with its usage. I note that, in true PH style, it can also be spelt with -OR, but that surely wouldn’t be allowed here.
    I wondered if TRIAL (20d) and “suit” were the same thing other than on a sloppy generalised level?
    I don’t pronounce WHIRR and “were” the same, and I’m not Scottish, but I can also be cheerfully forgiving.
  9. 34 minutes but with the silly-tailed gastropods. Have suddenly seen that ‘it’s said’ in 27 is perfectly OK for ‘it’s a way of saying’, without implying a homophone. I rather like the idea of Europe struggling with tragedy in the early 19th century. The idea, that is.

    Edited at 2012-09-14 08:41 am (UTC)

  10. 20 minutes here with a passing groan at WHIRR. Clearly nobody associated with the Times sounds their Rs. Didn’t think much of BEET either.

    Is “during” in 11A padding? The clue works without the word. Can’t make my mind up

    Enjoyed the rest of it. No problem with BLUE and GASTROPODA shouldn’t trouble Mephisto solvers who are used to creating words from strict word play rather than guessing from definitions

      1. Blue = navy; blue = spend recklessly. “It’s said” = misdirective fact. No “blew” anywhere…
        1. Maybe, but I can’t remember seeing a completely superfluous homophone indicator before. As I said you could add it to any clue, on the basis that every word is a homophone of itself.
          1. I would argue that they aren’t superfluous at all, but valid misdirection. What is more they are undeniably factual, and as you say, the idea is original, too 🙂

            1. I can see the point about their being factual (which you could say helps the surface reading), but I still struggle with the idea of adding a homophone indicator where there is no homophone purely to misdirect. I’ll get over it, I’m sure…
              1. I see it as a feint, part of the setter/solver judo, dependent on its being virtually a one-off, and amazed at the flurry it’s caused!

                Edited at 2012-09-14 09:39 am (UTC)

                1. Personally I hope it is a one-off (or a mistake, which is still what I think it probably is), but I’ll be on the lookout for superfluous anagram indicators just in case. 3ac today could have been “smashed porcelain top hat”, for instance.
      1. Yes, I buy that – thanks

        I took BLUE as 2 definitions. The “it’s said” is strictly superfluous and I agree misleading now that I’ve read the blog (didn’t think of it when solving and looking ay ?L?E)

    3. I think the definition may be ‘drive home’, in which case ‘during’ is needed. ‘Drive’ alone doesn’t seem a satisfactory definition for ‘ingrain’.
  11. Also no problem with blue which I thought a rather good clue. In fact may I respectfully draw everyone’s attention to what in my opinion is a truly masterful set of surface readings? Top class examples abound but I especially liked 17ac, 6dn and 16dn
    If you think clueing of this standard is easy, try it!

    Edited at 2012-09-14 09:08 am (UTC)

  12. 23 minutes, but “possibly slugs” for G_S_R_P_D_ can only be GASTROPODS, right? Wrong.
    I was held up by the long anagrams: I was solving this on my iPad standing up in the train so had nothing to write the letters out on.
    My last in was RWANDAN: partly because I was slow to see it, and partly because I couldn’t see how “money invested with” gets you to RWAND. Chambers has “to surround” as a meaning for “invest”, so I suppose you can read it as the word “with” that is “money-surrounded”. Doubtless I’m missing something more obvious.
    27 looks like a mistake to me. “Blew” as an alternative spelling for “blue” isn’t in Chambers, ODO or Collins. At best the words “it’s said” are completely superfluous, as “blue” is the more normal spelling and they add nothing to the wordplay.
      1. I considered that but I can’t believe the setter would add this solely to mislead, with no other function in either definition or wordplay. If it were permissible you’d see it all the time, because you could add it to almost any clue. For instance the clue for FOOL yesterday could have been “sweet kid, say” or “sweet kid on the radio”.
  13. This was my first in – an obvious dd, with “it’s said” unnecessarily there to suggest slanginess – unlike some of you, I never think that ‘say’ MUST be a homophone indicator.
    1. Certainly ‘say’ can indicate several things. A homophone is probably the most common, but also it can indicate a definition by example, or a slang term, or of course it can act as a definition in its own right, for EG, etc. But blue in this sense isn’t listed as slang in my dictionary, so “it’s said” would still appear to be superfluous.
      I’m very much with keriothe on this one. If the setter has tacked this phrase on the end purely to be superfluous and misleading then I think it makes it a very poor clue. So I rather hope it is just an oversight.
      1. “Blue” is listed as “informal” in Chambers and slang in Collins, Dave. Vinyl1 suggested this earlier but I didn’t see how “it’s said” communicated informality or slang. But if it does, then vinyl1 was right all along. And our anonymous friend is also right, if a little bit rude.
  14. About an hour. Got the gastropoda right having written in “s” and then thought, wait, i have no idea how the wordlplay works and looked again. But put in BEEF at 1ac (early) and never went back to check since it doesn’t make much sense for the buffet part. Came here to see if BLUE was right because (for me) the combination of DBE and wrong tense meant that even though I had -L-E I wasn’t 100% sure I was right.
  15. All this stuff about blue and blew has apparently caused people to overlook the fact, as stated in the blog, that navy = blue is a bad case of definition by example. I’d have expected more complaints about this from certain quarters.

    Edited at 2012-09-14 01:26 pm (UTC)

  16. BEEF at 1ac was my first thought and might have gone in but for remembering we had BEEF at 1ac earlier in the week. It was too much of a coincidence so I thought again.
  17. About 30 minutes, ending with RWANDAN. I think the setter would have been better off had he used ‘spent’ in the ‘blue’ clue, as Dave said early on. The real good, and fun, aspect of the clue is the suggestion that the Navy is frittering money away, and I don’t see any profit in dragging an obscure slangy meaning of ‘blue’ in, when ‘blew’ is hanging around with its hand up, just waiting to be called on. Beyond that, I agree with Jerry that today’s clues collectively are quite an admirable bunch, so thanks to the setter for everything but ‘spend’ vs. ‘spent’. Regards to all.
  18. I found the long anagrams tricky and confess to using an anagram solver to get 6dn.
    I’ve never heard of a propeller-head, needing a dictionary to confirm. Propeller was clear from the letters I had, but the second part could have been almost anything as far as I was concerned. I was also not familiar with that particular definition of ‘epitome’, which I’ve always taken to mean a typical example.
    I carelssly entered GASTROPDS. Should have paid more attention to the wordplay.
    So I’ve learned a few things from today’s puzzle.
  19. Another slow but steady solve with no particular problems. 43 minutes. My main hold ups were an unwillingness to accept “suit” as TRIAL in 20d and an equal reluctance to believe that anyone aims for an OUTER. On the other hand I was delighted to see PROPELLER HEAD getting an airing. This started as jargon among science-fiction fans (we have our own dictionary and fanspeak) In the early days of American science fiction conventions fans would turn up wearing propeller beanies which eventually became associated with the genre. Many SF fans were technology geeks – hence the extended meaning. Is this a Times first? Ann
  21. An OK 30′, with BEEF changed to BEET just before submission. But I had thrown in EPISODE when I started online, and only changed it when I switched to pen and paper. Then when I submitted, I overlooked it, since no checkers were involved. I’m one more vote for ‘spent’; not that the fact that I didn’t know ‘blue’ in that meaning has anything to do with it, of course.
  22. 11:42 for me, spending time at the end dithering over 1ac, worried that there might be a better alternative (I like docjd’s LAMB and would probably have bunged it in if I’d thought of it straight away). PROPELLER-HEAD sounded vaguely familiar, but only after I had both the checkers for HEAD in place.

    I’m with keriothe on “it’s said” in 27ac. I can see no justification for it.

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