Times 24750 — What’s worn underneath the kilt?

Author   mctextPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Solving time: 28 minutes. Not as much fun as yesterday’s by a long chalk and, now that I have to blog the thing, I’m surprised it took so long. Medium-Light gauge I’d say, on reflection and after a coffee or two. The hold up on DEESIDE will forever be a mystery to me. Do we overlook the closest things?

Across
1 CONDUCTED TOUR. Cryptic def punning on musical conductors. Ormandy from yesterday perhaps? I, for one, was considering all the players with sticks: hockey, lacrosse, shinty …
9 OCCAM. Shove your razor between ‘eccentric’ (CAM) and ‘commander’ (OC) and put the latter first. Yet another philosopher without whom no scientific method.
10 NOVELETTE. This is NOTE about VET, itself containing the EL from ‘meals’.
11 STE(RN)WARDS. That should be sufficient explanation, except to mention a certain &lit-like quality to the clue. Had me in mind of the first scene of The Tempest.
12 One for omission. Take a peek inside.
14 EGGHEAD. Two defs, one a cryptic ref to rectangles of toast. Zzzzz.
16 DEESIDE. DE = ‘some French’, E (for English) and SIDE for ‘airs’/arrogance. My last in despite having grown up not that far away.
17 E,ARFLAP. R (for ‘king’, Rex) inside A FLAP. One of today’s easier numbers.
19 BESEECH. Take some BEECHES and move the final two letters back, almost to the front.
20 Another for omission, excision, exclusion …
21 DEALERSHIP. Anagram of ‘heir pleads’ which can also give you LEADERSHIP if you’re so inclined.
24 CLIP,BOARD.
25 ENVOI. Replace the Y from ENVOY with an I. A “short stanza concluding a ballade” or “an author’s concluding words” (Mac Oxford).
26 MOONLIGHT FLIT. Anyone else getting a bit strained by the cryptic defs? I first mis-read ‘beans’ for ‘beams’ and went for the EMERGENCY EXIT!
Down
1 CROSS-REFERE(NC)E. NC, for ‘new clubs’.
2 NIC(H)E. ‘Position’ is a bit of a loose def; but fair enough given the rest.
3 UN-MAN/NERLY. Our representative is the UN man; then delete the A from NEARLY (‘almost’)
4 TYN,WALD. TYN is a sound-alike from ‘can’; D the first of ‘dilatory’; then include a reversal of LAW. Used to sing this at my Mother’s knee and other low joints.
5 DI(VIDE)D. Nice bit of camouflage with the ‘riven’ as part of the def.
6 OILS. ‘Toils’ sans initial.
7 RE,TENT,IVE. Straight charade. ‘Served’ may be something of a surf-actant — inserted to reduce surface tension?
8 BESIDE THE POINT. Two defs; the first more cryptic. The info is here. Had to look that up after the fact.
13 S(EA SER)PENT. Presumably an ‘easer’ calms and is accordingly a ‘calmer’.
15 GERMANIUM. Anagram of ‘Guam miner’. Cue Tom Lehrer again? (At about 00:14 through.)
18 P(REV)AIL.
19 BULL (speculator, as in ‘market’) + DOG (‘track’, verb).
22 a HOVEL is a hotel with the last guesT thrown out and a V let in in her place.
23 EBRO. The pre-postally-regularised abbrev. for Oregon, reversed, including a B for ‘Bachelor’, the capitalised variety.

 

57 comments on “Times 24750 — What’s worn underneath the kilt?”

  1. Defeated by the political clues at 3 and 4dn, for which I had to resort to aids.

    At 7, I took ‘served’ to be indicating the function (service) performed by ‘the writer has [+ past participle]’, that is, ‘I’ve’.

  2. I took 21 minutes, though I needed to take a break in the middle, but I was surprised to find that I had a correct solution. Wasn’t sure where the SIDE came from in DEESIDE (thanks mctext) or what the word after MOONLIGHT was, but FLIT seemed to be the best option. Also only got on part of the clues to EGGHEAD, BESIDE THE POINT and OCCAM
  3. Thanks MC, great blog.
    It took me about as long as yesterday, because I could not get my head round Deeside and a few others, but didn’t enjoy it as much, it seemed a bit of a slog.
    I never quite know why some are more fun than others, I will blame my mood, in this case.
    2. Maybe ‘de’ is ‘of some’ as opposed to ‘du’ is ‘of the’.
      Whichever way, it confused me. And debatable, at least, I would say.
    3. On the first matter, my Harrap says de is OK for some:
      De braves gens se trouvaient là, some worthy people were there.
      On the second: I’m not sure. Source = watercourse, hence the river. But Deeside, in my book (an atlas), refers to two bits of terra firma, on the Welsh and English (Wirral) banks of the river.
  4. A good blog on what I thought was a difficult puzzle.

    In 23dn I took “bachelor in Oregon” as an OR(egon) BE, but I think the blog’s version is right. I don’t know if “bachelor” can be used to clue BA, BSC, BE etc, or just B.

    1. Under these, as an abbreviation (as opposed to a symbol) Chambers has:
      Bachelor; Baron; bass (music); Belgium (IVR); bishop (chess); Britain; British.
  5. 38 minutes, then gave up on 4d. When this happens, it’s a relief of sorts to find that the solution is a word I didn’t know, and wouldn’t have figured out in a week. I got Occam all right, but without a clue as to why. And I still don’t understand the other definition of ‘egghead’.
    Like Isabel, I didn’t have the fun with this that I did with yesterday’s.
    1. It’s where you might dip your soldiers, bits of toast. I did think of being somewhat academic/Swiftian about this — as in questioning whether one would dip one’s bread in the less-likely-to-be-yolkful end — but thought better of it.
      1. (I thought I had sent this reply, but evidently it disappeared into the ether.) Thanks. So not only didn’t I know ‘Tynwald’, I didn’t know ‘soldier’=toast. I also didn’t know there were so many Dees in the UK; the one I knew–the one Mary had to cross to get the cattle–I’d always assumed was in Scotland, although no doubt Wales can be as dank wi’ foam as anywhere else.
  6. I finished the lower half and all the edges in my first 20 minute session then struggled through the remainder of the NE very slowly.

    I finally ran out time on the commute and failed to finish 3dn 4dn and 9ac before arriving at the office. On looking at it again 3dn then came to me and having put this in and got the final checker in 9ac I thought of OCCAM but couldn’t see the wordplay and anyway surely it’s spelt OCKHAM? So I cheated and found that the spelling required today is an alternative.

    I was unable to call to mind the name of the Isle Of Man parliament despite knowing that was what the clue was referring to so I had to look this one up to complete the grid.

    Something of a curate’s egg then, this puzzle.

    I’m ashamed to admit that DEESIDE being in Wales is something that has escaped my notice for 63 years until today. I always assumed it was on the Scottish river of the same name.

  7. Sorry, I think Deeside is not a good clue. DE for “some” may be technically correct but it’s pushing the friendship a tad, as is “side” for “airs”. NOVELETTE and ET AL? Sorry, please explain…further! Oh, and add RETENTIVE to that list! Did like 1 across and especially 14 across.
    1. 1. NOVELETTE. It’s a book (def). Then ‘observation‘ = NOTE. Insert VET (surgeon) into that. Then insert these bits (EL) into all of that: from ‘mEaLs’.
      2. ET AL. Reverse the word LATE (behind) as in ‘I’m a little behind here‘. (NO rude comments please.)
      3. RETENTIVE. As good memories should be: a retentive memory. (Not ‘anal retentive’ etc — see above.) RE (from ‘regarding’); TENT (the setter’s favourite wine); IVE = ‘I’ve’, the writer has — so I have. Suit yourself what the ‘served’ is doing. I’m saying it’s only in there to make the surface work — hence my coining, ‘surf-actant‘.

      Edited at 2011-01-19 10:03 am (UTC)

      1. Thanks, mctext. I think your note about ET AL qualifies as my “D’oh!” moment of the day. I wouldn’t dream of being rude on such an erudite site! But TENT = favourite wine? And VET for surgeon. Think the latter is pushing the boundaries somewhat.Oh, well. And “I’VE” now picked up a new clueing convention. Thank you!
        1. Vet for surgeon is quite common, Martin, but it still caught me out for a while this morning.
  8. Nearly an hour, but worth the effort. Put in ORCHESTRA TOUR for 1 across, which, although it has been part of my family’s vocabulary for years, is, of course, not in the dictionary: this produced much confusion in the top left. Fellow insomniacs will immediately pick up the reference to Ardnamurchan Point from the nightly litany that is the Shipping Forecast. OCCAM managed to razor smile.
    1. Being an expatriate Englishman in Sydney, I DO miss the Shipping Forecast; but does Ardnamurchan rate a mention on it? Never knew it as a shipping area.
      1. Following the tour of the shipping areas (Viking, North Utsire, South Utsire, etc.) and the reports from coastal stations, there comes the forecast for inshore waters. This begins “From Cape Wrath to Rattray Head” and ends “From Ardnamurchan Point to Cape Wrath”. The National Anthem follows at just before 01.00 GMT, though I don’t usually get out of bed and stand to attention.

        Here is the relevant site, and if you like, you can really wallow in nostalgia by listening to forecast here.

        1. Thank you, John! I’m on the road for my work but at home I have a book called “Attention All Shipping” written by a man (sorry, can’t remember the name) who was so smitten by T.S.F. that he visited every shipping area that had land in it. A very good read! I will now carry with me the image of you occasionally standing to attention for the National Anthem at 0100!
  9. 38 minutes here. A real grind. Last in was TYNWALD, constructed painfully from wordplay. I have a post-it note in front of me with “BA_, CA_, DA_, EA_…” written on it, the last being “LA_”. Not what I’d call a eureka moment.
    I also questioned “de” meaning “some” in French. The example mctext gives is OK but it’s a bit outmoded. Arcane English is one thing…
  10. Geographically compromised by DEESIDE, though worked it out as the only possible entry from the (still dodgy) cryptic. I see the Welsh version is not only the right one, but terribly famous, leaving me to believe that I have slipped into a parallel universe where the Scottish one (Royal or not) barely exists. Ardnamurchan is scarcely the world’s most famous Point either.
    Otherwise, a stiff 20 odd minutes (last few waiting for the Overground to work), with the top providing most resistance. CONDUCTED TOUR (sort of) turned into a decent clue once I’d got it but stayed mostly blank for ages.
    I think this was a bit of a “wavelength” puzzle, which I wasn’t on. No really duff clues, so long as you know things like MOONLIGHT FLIT and OCCAM, but nothing terribly exciting either.
    Cod (faux de mieux) to STERNWARDS for a nice semi-lit surface.
  11. Found this one tricky… Got OCCAM from wordplay (glad I remembered CAM from recent puzzle, and also TENT for 7d), but resorted to aids for TYNWALD and DEESIDE. Agree with others that this wasn’t as satisfactory as yesterday’s.
  12. I think if a puzzle is going to take as many liberies as this one then it has to have some balancing features to redress the balance. Unfortunately this one doesn’t have that.

    The cryptic definitions are weak and become tiresome. “William’s place” is far too vague and points to Ockham where the good father came from rather than OCCAM the usual spelling of his razor. 8D is solved from the definition and checkers. Why on earth pick a remote Scottish point that many Scots may not know? At 16A the “de” is wrong for me. It means “of” not “some” and makes the clue very hard and impossible if you don’t know where this particular Dee runs.

    Now, where is the humour or cleverness to balance that. Absent. As others have said it’s not fun but a bit of a 20 minute slog.

    1. Still think de is OK. It seems fine applied as a partitive article before mass nouns: e.g., Donnez moi de bon vin as opposed to count nouns — Donnez moi des bons indices.
          1. Good one!
            However I would translate it as “give me some of that wine”.
            I remain open to the possibility but I haven’t yet thought of a phrase in which “de” would translate as “some”.
              1. Aren’t we missing the point a tad here. It’s an English crossword and whilst the common le, la, des, etc are acceptable it shouldn’t be necessary for us to rove around the French language trying to find phrases in which “de” means not “of” as usual but rather “some”, which is more commonly “des”. It’s just far too obscure and I think wrong within the context of a Times puzzle.
                1. You have a point but until I see an example to the contrary I’ll maintain that it’s not just obscure but wrong.
                  To keithdoyle’s point, de la, du, de l’ and des (as the context requires) all mean “some”. De don’t.
  13. Like others associated Deeside with Scotland and so resisted it: 30 minutes eventually. I like side for airs and am not concerned about the French some: it’s close enough. Enjoyed the puzzle overall; COD 1 ac.
  14. On reflection I’m with Jimbo on this. It’s not outmoded – just wrong.
    For instance (thanks to Google), here’s Dominique Strauss-Kahn stating confidently that the financial crisis is over three months before Lehman Brothers went bust:
    “Il y a de bonnes raisons de penser que les institutions financières ont révélé l’essentiel des dégâts”.
    The correct translation of “il y a de bonnes raisons” here is not “there are some good reasons” but “there are good reasons”. The “de” is just a gramatical filler: the phrase “il y a bonnes raisons” doesn’t exist in French. “Il y a des bonnes raisons” does. It means “there are some good reasons”.
  15. Blog (thanks, mctext) and comments (thanks, all) much more entertaining than the crossword. DEESIDE beyond me. To add to the niggles: can anyone suggest a purpose for ‘more’ in 1ac?
    1. I wouldn’t get too analytical about 1A. It’s just a rather poor cryptic definition that gets solved primarily from checkers. C-N at the start + “players” and “stick” suggests “conductor” which leads you to “conducted”
  16. 17:30 online. Last in was DEESIDE. I basically knew what it had to be but had to persaude myself to put it in as a) the definition didn’t tie up and b) neither did the wordplay. Apart from that it was a pretty good clue.
    I don’t see a problem with Ardnamurchan. A lot of the better known extremities are heads, ends , capes etc. Ok I am Scottish but would be as happy seeing Wrath, Malin, Spurn or Beachy. Good point?
    Ref the online puzzle I cleared my answers halfway through twice today at exactly the same point hitting the enter key. Anybody else as daft as me?
  17. Agree with the point that, as today, the blog can be more fun than the puzzle. It’s only a crossword?

    We shall now imagine Johnfromlancs standing at Ardnamurchan
    point if we are awake at 1am.

    thanks all

  18. 24:36 .. I found this tough and was quite pleased with myself for cracking it within the half hour. Not getting 1 Across until nearly the end of the solve didn’t help.

    I really didn’t have any gripes with this puzzle and rather enjoyed it, which just goes to show… well, probably says more about me than the puzzle, given the comments above. But I’m happy. So I’ll whisper… [‘thank you, setter’].

  19. I also found this harder than average.. 22 mins in all. This despite having lived for years in the Wirral, so having no problems either with Deeside or Tynwald.
    I am not so surly as some here about this crossword but I do feel 9ac was a poor clue
      1. The cat is called Grumpy, and he is from London originally.. I use his picture because it is easy to see from the way things are run around this house that he must be more intelligent than I am. He would not want me talking to folks who use pictures of dogs.. 😉
        1. I quite understand. I’ll type softly so “Grumpy” doesn’t hear me…. He would have a field day with our Standard Poodle, “Alice” as she runs scared of our Tabby, “Tigger”, who regularly ambushes her
  20. Harder for me, about 35 minutes, but had to resort to aids for TYNWALD. Never heard of it, and wouldn’t have guessed to use a ‘y’ in the wordplay. Didn’t know of a MOONLIGHT FLIT either, but it’s an amusing term that redeems the puzzle for me. Regards.
  21. Printed this off from my hotel and did it on and off during a coach tour of Malta. Didn’t time it but I think at least an hour. Held up because 1a was my first in which gave me the “C” of 1d. After that I couldn’t get “chain” out of my head as the first word for 1d. The “link” reference got me. (I should have been thinking of Malta=cross). 1d last in and I needed all the checking letters! At least I got DEESIDE straight away. I blame this debacle on the distractions of this pleasant island.
  22. Definitely one that took longer than it should have, even falling for the ORCHESTRA TOUR error (it even fitted the one checker T I already had).

    By the way, something many people in UK don’t realize is that the westernmost point of mainland Britain is not Land’s End but the end of the Ardnamurchan peninsula. There’s a nice pub there too. Britain is more tilted over than most people realize (Edinburgh is north of Bristol).

    1. My geography is not good, but I have to say I never doubted that Edinburgh was north of Bristol. Did you mean west?
  23. 12:45 for me. I felt it took longer me than it should have done, but I was probably just feeling a bit dozy as I’ve no real complaints about the puzzle itself.
  24. One last word before we all move on…
    Said “con brio” Ardnamurchan is either an appropriate response to 16ac or the reaction of a Celtic supporter, say, to losing to a team such as Thurso in the Scottish Cup.

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