Times 24710: 14 in 17 13

65 comments on “Times 24710: 14 in 17 13”

1. Minor quibble, but I think it shoud be D, IS IN FORMATION?
   1. You’re right, should have checked the clue again… amendment coming promptly
2. ….I was expecting trickier wordplay and answers than were actually used. ‘Foolproof’ and ‘hardihood’ were good, but the rest was not up to that standard. I did waste a lot of time trying a full anagram of ‘tea critics rate’, only to get the answer from the literal and then see it.

   It is curious that ‘Scotch’ appears twice, once in a clue and once in an answer. Of course, the pedants will say the usage in 6 is not correct, but it is needed for the surface.

   ‘Sundial’ was my last in, never saw the cryptic.

3. 28 minutes and no major hold-ups. Thought the PENSIONER clue was rather weak and don’t understand why EIGHT (last in) should be the power of two.

   Nice to North and South back. Is this an attempt by the editor to break the record for number of comments, I wonder?

   1. eight is a power of two (the third power)
      1. Thanks – failed to check all my missing articles.
4. Another slowish 48 minutes hitting the doldrums between a fast start and finish. I thought PENSIONER was one of the better clues – perhaps because I didn’t see the anagram until after finishing – although the “quarter of life” reference seems to imply an earlier retirement than most of us will ever enjoy.
   1. Never spotted the anagram – thought it was just a rather weak all-in-one. My (relatively) fast time clearly came at the cost of understanding how the clues worked.
5. I think we say “The proof of the pudding is in the eating”; though it seems the way you (George) have it has become common. One of my grandma’s favourite phrases.
   33 minutes; and top marks to the anagram in 3dn giving a semi-&lit. Semi because there are all sorts of pensions apart from the old-age variety. (Yes, I’m aware of the “possibly” — but that’s the anagind.)
6. I’d love to think that the three bridge players in 21 were planted deliberately by the editor. Very mischievous!

   Some of the early criticism strikes me as a bit harsh. I thought 3 was excellent – sorry ulaca – and NUDITY was fun, of course, although ‘barely’ seems superfluous and rather gives the game away. 50 minutes to finish.

7. I have recently posted anonymously a few times but after Tuesday’s blog (to which I didn’t contribute!) I thought I should step out from the anonymous posters. Now I find I can’t log in!

   I thought this was nice and straightforward, with lots of standard stuff it would be a good puzzle for a beginner.

   I took the “fool” in 1ac to be the creamy pudding, rather than a synonym for “pudding” as a slow person, but I guess they both work.

   Pieman

   1. Hi Pieman, welcome to the world of the knownish. I didn’t know that meaning of fool, but my father used to call me “Pudding George” when I did something daft (which was often).
   2. Welcome Pieman. Is that “pie” as in “confused” or as in “chatterer”? I also thought of “fool” as a type of pudding as in gooseberry fool, a type of purée
   3. Good to hear from you, assuming you’re this Pieman.

      As long as you can still use the same e-mail account as you had when you created the LJ account, you should be able to get your password e-mailed to it.

8. Under 15 minutes, but held up briefly in the NE corner. My last entry was HARDIHOOD (not familiar with Mr. Hood), preceded by IRONED OUT, NUDITY and BAIRN, which I didn’t know, but the wordplay was precise. I also expect some very fast times from the speedsters. I think it an offering well on the easier side of things. Regards to all.
9. My times not relevant as I combine solving with more prosaic early morning activities but certainly under the hour for the second time this week, so feeling good after last week’s disappointments. The only unknown word was HARDIHOOD but oddly it was my first in even before getting the perhaps too obvious OTHELLO and thus the H starting letter. Other than obfuscation not sure what European is doing in 6d in what otherwise, at least I thought, was much fluid clueing eg FOOLPROOF and CANTINA.
   Welcome to Pieman. Not sure this is exactly a beginner’s puzzle. As a relative newcomer to cryptics (something under 2 years??) I find I can dazzle non-cruciverbal friends with my Telegraph solving.
   1. It does sound a bit odd to attribute national identity (or whatever the word “European” is) to a deep-sea fish.
   2. I’m not great shakes on fish, Barry, but ‘brill’ is defined in Oxford Online as ‘a European flatfish that resembles a turbot’.
      1. No doubt. However, a splendidly alliterative clue Fish that’s fab would have had me drooling.

         Odd Oxford definition seems to assume one would readily be able to recognise a turbot other than on one’s plate.

10. Nice concise and informative blog as usual, but surely 17a is Tea = CHA,(CRITICS RATE)*?
11. Similar to yesterday for me. 6:37 with one wrong. This time I managed to type IHADO at 24D. It occurs to me that when I solved on paper I was probably unaware of many mistakes.

    Liked “half train” for CHOO in 14D, though I can’t see a very good surface meaning for that clue.

12. I enjoyed this one a lot and think any harsh criticisms are a but unfair to the setter. It’s what I would call a ‘lively’ puzzle as opposed to some that are very dry and academic that turn into a hard slog.

    I started and finished well but was slowed down by the two long Across clues. At 17 I convinced myself that it was an anagram of ‘Tea critics rate’ instead of being CHA+(CRITICS RATE)*. At 13 I was hampered by having hastily written FORTIFY at 5dn without fully justifying it and I took a while to convince myself that the Y checker must be incorrect.

    45 minutes in the end. I think I should have managed it in under 30.

13. Under 30 minutes (one of my fastest times) between printing and completion. Minor pause over SCOTCHED (16dn) because of use of ‘Scotch’ in wordplay for 6ac.
14. Didn’t find this that easy. 23 minutes. A lot of one-two-clunk clues and little or no humour. The whole thing’s merely a two-dimensional pun.
15. Didn’t find this too easy. 23 minutes. A lot of one-two-clunk clues and little or no humour. The whole thing’s like a two-dimensional pun.
16. Apologies for inadvertent repetition above – joekobi
    1. You may like to know that as you have an account you can delete your own postings that haven’t been replied to.
17. Zipped through the whole thing without aids for a change in record quick time (but, like Barry, the time’s spent multitasking over breakfast, so actual time not really that relevant), thanks to some lucky guesswork and some recently aired crossword vocab (eg CANT). Unfortunately had one wrong (stupidly put in HARDIFORD, convinced that T FORD was must have written a novel or two).

    Re PENSIONER, I hadn’t seen the anagram, but thought that the last quarter somehow referred to an old person’s last home, ie his PENSION, in the French sense of lodging. Tenuous, I know…

    Thanks for explanation of SCHOOLING, hadn’t got the CHOO bit, but will now store it away for future use!

18. A disrupted solve, with only a handful done in the first 15 minutes and then a further 25 minutes when I returned to it; so no walk in the park for me. I thought PENSIONER was worth the price of admission on its own. And I’m another one who anagrammed tea with two critics to get CHARACTERISTIC; I obviously wasn’t paying too much attention.
19. Nice to see the editor nailing his colours firmly to the mast with the statement “south and north confused”. Seems that I’m the one who makes him jump.
    Incidently, it’s been reported that N and S Korea are experiencing a thaw in relations after tuesday’s revelation that they are, in fact, partners.

    Twelve minutes.

    1. Clearly deluded as well as misguided
       1. Best not feed the Troll.
20. amazing number of posts so early!
    must be the snow keeping people at home.
    liked the puzzle and my vote for clue of the day goes to 1 across
    Rather liked Othello Otello…lots of opera clues recently including at lest 3 in the prize Jumbo at the week end!
21. As per most others, a quick solve that was not particularly taxing but was reasonably entertaining. I also didn’t really see the need for “European” at 6D and take Barry’s point that removing it improves the clue whilst its inclusion is of no real help. The “near Washington” at 24D is also a bit superfluous. Overall a decent enough puzzle at the easy end of the spectrum.
22. 6:39 – the Scots kid and “European” fish last in.

    Can’t offer you my favourite Otello clip without uploading to it to Youtube first – the storm chorus on a CD of the Black Sea Fleet ensemble. Mostly purveyors of Soviet kitsch, but they can’t half sing – well enough in this case for it not to matter that they’re accompanied by the same stage band as in the linked clip, with accordions well to the fore, and almost certainly a balalaika too.

    It’s nice to think that 21 is a comment on recent puzzles, but it’s about 99% certain to be simple coincidence – the word from setters is that Times puzzles are published several weeks or months after they are written.

    1. In my slow journey through “75 years of The Times Crossword” I’ve just come across the note “A Visit from MI5”, an account of how the delay between setting and publication perhaps saved Edmund Akenhead from interrogation somewhere less comfortable than his study.

       For those who don’t know the tale, two days before the spy George Blake was sprung from the ‘Scrubs a puzzle set by Mr.Akenhead appeared in the Times and appeared to contain a string of references to the escape, naturally arousing the interest of the spooks. The fact that he had demonstrably set the puzzle weeks before the event seems largely to have allayed their suspicions (though you can bet there’s still a file with his name on it).

23. 15 minutes today on the amazingly still functioning Central Line. Three of the first five clues (1, 10, 11) put me in a good mood, so I thought this was a pleasant enough journey. Add me to those who queried PENSIONER having failed to spot the anagram. I liked two clues which looked as if they were whole anagrams (7, 17) but weren’t, possibly demonstrating a strong ability to count the number of letters in the setter!
    North and South in 21 would be delightful mischief if intended.
    CoD to FOOLPROOF
24. 39 minutes. I thought this was rather a good puzzle. I don’t suppose Thomas Hood is read as much as he once was. I well remember the teacher at primary school reading us November, which I still recite to myself. Hood also enjoyed playing with words, as in this example from Faithless Sally Brown.

    His death, which happen’d in his berth,
    At forty-odd befell:
    They went and told the sexton, and
    The sexton toll’d the bell.

25. 12:46 today. Surprised how many were unaware of Thomas Hood – who can ever forget “The song of a shirt”?

    Stitch, stitch, stitch,
    Through poverty, hunger and dirt
    And still in a voice of dolorous pitch
    She sang the song of a shirt

    England’s answer to McGonagle?

    1. Sorry Val, but no! Hood’s humour was intentional. McGonagall seems to have been the only person who didn’t think his poetry was a joke.
       1. McGonagall’s poetry and particularly his acting were indeed a joke, but there is a lot to suggest that he was in on it and it is at our expense. I read his autobiography many years ago. It remains one of the funniest things I have ever read and I have no doubt it was all entirely intentional.
26. Thanks for your insight, dorsalfinjim. You have a problem with the inclusion of “European” in a certain clue, feeling it superfluous to the problem which needs to be solved. I can see where you’re coming from, but I like it. It’s what a forward thinking cruciverbalist would call a “red herring”.
27. A bit of light relief at last! I was beginning to think I’d lost the ability to do these. Probably about half an hour, while trying to keep peace between two toddlers, so I claim a handicap. 🙂

    Only 25ac and 15d went in without understanding the wordplay, and only one real hold up along the way, where I was convinced 13ac must be DIS…..ACTION.

    COD 1ac.

28. About two weeks ago it appears that a part of my brain suddenly died, changing me overnight from someone who finishes the Times crossword consistently with the occasional failure to someone who fails to finish it consistently with the occasional success. I was travelling yesterday so didn’t get the opportunity to comment here until too late but PRIMROSE PATH did for me making it 8 failures out of 9.
    So it was nice to get an easy one. I did this in 20 minutes in spite of a snow-delayed and very overcrowded train (the chap in front of me didn’t seem to mind me writing on his back) and my trepidation on checking here proved unjustified as I don’t appear to have made any mistakes.
    Hallelujah.
29. HARDIHOOD is a word I only knew because it appeared here a few months ago. Another one of those things I only know because they appear in the Times crossword.
    In a similar vein, I’ve never played Bridge, but have no problem with the convention… actually no, forget I said that.

30. This took a few minutes to get started but then seemed to fall into place very quickly. Usually I get more answers on the wordplay than by the straight clues but the opposite was true today.
    Louise
31. Easier than yesterday, I thought. A leisurely solve in 30 minutes, taking time to note clues I thought rather good (6ac, 10ac and 3dn in particular).
32. Well, I found this one difficult. Looks like I’m the only one! Couldn’t do a single one of the downs on first read through (!!) and my first across solved was COEXIST. Once I’d got a few more acrosses I slowly completed the left hand side then quickly the NW corner and finally very slowly the SW. Last two in were CANTINA then TRACT. Full marks to me for persevering and completing without aids! I didn’t know until today that SABLE was the animal aswell as its fur – d’uh!

    Thought “a tot of Scotch” was a lovely definition… it put in mind my three Scottish nephews. Also liked “power of two” for 2 x 2 x 2.

    Two of my friends are nudists, one of them very keen. They both stripped off for Spencer Tunick’s “Everday People” nude installation in Salford and Manchester earlier this year.

    1. I got my lefts and rights muddled up, just like my better half. I meant of course that I slowly completed the right hand side.

       By the way, how do people add hyperlinks to their comments? When I’ve tried pasting them in from Word they get undone!

       1. Look under “tips for this blog” in memories above.
          While we’re on the subject can anyone tell me how to change the format of text (to italics, for example)?
          1. Use “b” (bold), “i” (italic) or “u” underlined, in angle brackets – so when I change the curly brackets to angle brackets in {b}bold{/b} {u}underlined{/u} {i}italic{/i}, {I}{B}{U}all three{/I}{/B}{/U} I get bold underlined italic all three (and the case of the U/B/I doesn’t matter).
             1. Thanks! Very helpful.
33. 5:03 online – a new best for me.

    Easier than yesterday for me too. I did not pick up all the nuances (e.g. 3D) until coming here.

34. 13.39 Not helped by erasing my online solve halfway through and having to start again.I used the somewhat obscure Thomas Ness in 10 at first. Certainly didn’t notice the correct anagram for 17.
    Rather liked the choo-choo today.
    Seeing the mention of McGonagall in relation to Hood above I have to agree that they’re not in the same league. I also have to hastily mention that the former was not, as is sometimes assumed, a Dundonian (like me) but a son of Edinburgh
35. Firstly, congratulations to Mr. B on the fifth birthday. It’s a great blog and one that will be on the favourites list until I log off for the last time.

    In regards to your response about changing the crossword to give us the amazing ‘south and north in conflict’ today. Your answer was exactly what I expected from you – please forgive me for being presumptuous – : citing statistical evidence (lies, damn lies etc) and basing your hypothesis on recurring action in the past. That is to say, a cold, scientific approach. You say it would be ‘nice’ to think they would change it just for us. Flipping awesome, I say. I don’t know any of these men and women personally, but judging by the puzzles they create I don’t think they’re incapable of changing a single clue at two days notice, any more than I believe them capable of writing a typo as huge a ‘opponents’ for ‘partners’.

    As for the issue with ‘European’ in the fish clue. Some feel that it is superfluous. I coundn’t disagree more. The inclusion of the word European drags this clue out of the telegraph and into the times. Don’t you see it’s there to SLOW US DOWN? We are timing ourselves, after all. Didn’t you think ‘E, Pole, Dane, Lett, Finn’ etc when you saw the word? Didn’t you have to check the answer with crossing letters just to be sure? That’s adding to your time. If there were no foundation for it I would be in full agreement, but there it is, in your blessed dictionary. A European fish. Usually a brill, but today also the COD.

    Peace.

    1. On changing the crossword: No, they’re not incapable of changing things. I don’t know exactly what the “lily-livered” apology said yesterday, but if the crossword editor views the “opponents” clue as a mistake, it seems extremely unlikely that any of his setters would ask for a change that reminds people about it. That’s human nature as well as “cold science”.

       With you on “European”, and other accurate words added to a one-word def like “fish”, even if not part of the dictionary def.

       1. “Lily-livered apology?” I highly approved of what The Times did yesterday, publishing “Apologies for the error in 28 across yesterday”, and then giving the correct clue. Far better than those appalling people who say “never apologise, never explain”, something that too many people do nowadays. The Times Crossword Editor held his hands up and said “we made a cock-up”. The world would be a better place if a few more people did this sort of thing.
          1. Wil: Not sure if you saw all the discussion on Tuesday, but just to be clear, that’s exactly what I think, and why “lily-livered” was in quotes – it’s what someone called the apology in comments yesterday.
             1. My apologies, missed the discussion on Tuesday. So am guilty of posting without quite knowing what I’m referring to. Delighted that we are in agreement.
36. 18:48 (including an attack by a cat – on the puzzle, not me).

    Easier but entertaining, with a couple of head-scratching moments. HARDIHOOD nearly did for me.

37. Like Jack I found this lively and very entertaining. No reliable time due to numerous interruptions but somewhere between 15 and 20 minutes I’d hazard.
38. 5dn reminds me of the gentleman who was informed by his flustered hostess that he would be required to escort no fewer than four ladies in to dinner. “That will be no problem,” he said “forewarned is four-armed”.
39. A straightforward 27 minutes for this. Pleased with the OTHELLO clue. I remember singing that opening chorus referenced by PB in a concert of operatic snippets. Great fun – especially when the tenor makes his entrance.
40. Wish I’d timed myself, as this might have been my fastest ever, certainly under 20 minutes. Why can’t they all be like this? COD schooling. Made me giggle.
41. 30 minutes exactly – not bad for me (especially after a couple of gin and tonics (gins and tonic?) so not surprised to see it generally regarded as easy. I do remember a University Challenge contestant asked to name the month in Thomas Hood’s poem (No sun – no moon! etc) inexplicably coming up with “July”. Was held up by “furry creature” in 20d – didn’t realise sable could be the animal itself, not just its fur, and didn’t spot that “a head” = “each” in 26a as in £50 each.

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