Times 24,708 featuring Julie Andrews’ Dress

Author   dorsetjimboPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Solving time 25 minutes

A puzzle of average difficulty with some good constructions and interesting definitions. Only one real obscurity, the accompaniment to the goats and cuckoo clocks which would not be out of place in a Mephisto. One query at 28A where I cant justify NS=opponents.

Across
1 SALT – S-ALT; small=S; key (on keyboard)=ALT; plenty on the roads at the moment;
3 MACHINE,GUN – (hug nice man)*; Isn’t it the gunner that’s the killer?;
10 ARCTIC,FOX – AR(C)TIC-F-OX; cold=C; articulated lorry=ARTIC; following=F; I’m expecting to see one in the garden soon;
11 WELLS – (s)WELLS; Cathedral city of Somerset near the Mendips;
12 TALONED – (ra)T-ALONE-D; died=D; hawk literally, the wife metaphorically;
13 DIGS,IN – DIG-SIN; I like “greed perhaps” for SIN;
15 THE,GLOVES,ARE,OFF – THE-G-LOVES-ARE-OFF; grand=G; see 12A;
18 WHITER,THAN,WHITE – (win with the heart)*; it wasn’t me, darling – must have been the dogs;
21 MESS-UP – M(oggi)E-PUSS reversed; not me, I’m 18A;
23 IMPETUS – I-M(PET)US(t); I like “dog say” for PET;
26 METAL – (aluminiu)M-ET-AL; ET AL = etc, usw, and so on;
27 PENINSULA – (alpine sun)*; another campaign to go with 7D;
28 GREENSWARD – (a)GREE(NS-WAR)D; opponents=NS? In bridge they’re partners!; the fairway;
29 deliberately omitted – it’s simple in other words;
 
Down
1 SHANTY,TOWN – SHANT-Y-(wont)*; still far too many in the world;
2 LOCAL – LO(w)-CAL(orie);
4 AFFIDAVIT – AFFI(x)-DAVIT; “X” marks the spot Long John;
5 HEXAD – HE(X)AD; “X” marks the vote; a series of six numbers;
6 NEW,AGER – N-E(W)AGER; name=N; keen=EAGER; W from W(illiam); of mysticism and meditation;
7 GALLIPOLI – GALL-I-(I-LOP reversed); disastrous WWI campaign (1915-1916) that failed to capture Istanbul;
8 NOSH – NO-SH; slang for food;
9 DIRNDL – DI(RN)D-L; service=RN=Royal Navy; managed=DID; large=L; think Julie Andrews and opening scene of The Sound of Music;
14 AFTERSHAVE – cryptic definition – the word “after” in clue and answer is disconcerting when solving;
16 EPICENTRE – EPIC-ENTER changed to ENTRE; the source of an earthquake;
17 STATIONER – (into tears)*; it’s that impending VAT increase, you know;
19 EPSILON – NO-LISPE(d) all reversed; Violet Elizabeth Bott no doubt;
20 WIPING – WI(PIN)G;
22 PAPAW – PA(PA)W; more usually “pawpaw”;
24 TAUPE – TA(U)PE; a brownish-grey colour;
25 deliberately omitted – get it and be pleased with yourself;

84 comments on “Times 24,708 featuring Julie Andrews’ Dress”

        1. But where is that indicated in the clue which doesn’t mention EW or even bridge? It just says “opponents”
  2. I made a right 21ac of this, losing my 23ac after a decent start – just like yesterday. Stymied myself by having ‘the knives are out’ for the longest time, and unaccountably couldn’t see beyond first ‘impulse’ at 23ac and then something with ‘ive’. Needed aids for DIRNDL and TAUPE, and never went back to 11ac, where I could only see ‘Wales’. Principality as ‘expanded city’, anyone?
  3. METAL and AFFIDAVIT from definitions and finally AFTERSHAVE having been incredulous that the answer includes a significant word in the clue. Good, solid challenge and back to my normal time.
    1. Again, where is that indicated in the clue? No mention of compass points and “opponents” is surely a bit of a stretch for North and Soutn?
  6. Would a clue have to mention compass points? It doesn’t mention bridge, but everyone goes for that.
    1. I think the compass points are irrelevant – according to the usual 3 dictionaries, “opponents” are either people or (much less commonly) muscles. Compass points may be “opponent” (adj.) but they are not opponents.
      1. WE and They are the bridge teams. I’m guessing that WE is W & E, so N & S are the opponents!
  7. 11:15 – I’d say a little harder than average. (N,S = opponents) is a poser. I can’t see a sensible reason why, and wonder whether it’s just a mistake – the answer has E,N as an adjacent pair, though “obviously” this clashes with “(a)GREED”.
  8. Was galloping along until felled by 9d and 14d, for a DNF. Couldn’t get the wordplay for 9 and, although I had heard the word DIRNDL, I couldn’t quite bring myself to spell it correctly. AFTERSHAVE just stumped me. Whether it is legitimate misdirection or a bit of crumminess to repeat half the answer in the clue probably depends how much trouble it gave you. Seems inelegant in either case.
  9. Although it may not be an idea common to cryptic crossword solvers, the concept that the positions of north and south stand in opposition to each other on the compass face is not, I feel, insensible, but rather a case of common sense over deeply ingrained preconceptions based the on codifacation of a particular card game which hardly anyone plays in this day and age.
    1. Bridge may not be as popular as it used to be, but “hardly anyone” is over-egging the pudding. As already stated, the problem with reagarding opposing compass points as “opponents” is that the word “opponent” is not used for things in general such as compass points. As compass points, North and South are opposites, but not opponents. In cryptic clue terms, that’s basic common sense.
  10. Like David, I was stumped by 9d and 14d, my excuse being that I had ‘the knives are out’, so would never have managed them. Ok, so I didn’t understand the wordplay for 15a, but then, neither did I for GREENSWARD or AFFADAVIT (amongst others), so nothing would have encouraged me to reconsider.

    Good blog, thanks for clear explanations.

    1. It’s AFFIDAVIT not AFFADAVIT – maybe that’s the source of the difficulty (or just a typo in your message?)
  12. 64 minutes, with at least 10 of those at the end spent on DIRNDL. Must remember what ‘service’ is indicating; it fools me every time.

    I was most amused by Tony Sever’s late post yesterday saying he agonised over something for nearly half a minute. Tony, that’s not agonising, that’s a recklessly hasty decision…

  13. 27 mins this morning, inexplicably held up by 14D, AFTERSHAVE. I had all the crossing letters and should have been able to spot it, but couldn’t even think of a word that would fit, and didn’t think of parsing the clue as a cryptic definition. Other than that, fairly straightforward. I spent less time on the rest of the puzzle than on 14D.
  15. Well, until I came here, I was going to say how good 28ac was — so I admit to not noticing the problem! Also didn’t know the crane, but now see it’s from OF daviot, dim. of david, a carpenter’s tool! Rather liked some of the wordy clues but wonder if all children lisp (19dn)? 42 minutes all up.
    1. The service we bloggers provide! The same thing struck me so I looked up lisp and Chambers says “speak in a childish manner”
    2. All day, a half remembered line about children lisping has been rattling round my head. Now I’ve recalled it; it’s from Gray’s Elegy:
      For them no more the blazing hearth shall burn,
      Or busy housewife ply her evening care:
      No children run to lisp their sire’s return,
      Or climb his knees the envied kiss to share,
  16. Thanks for your insight, dorsetjim. 25 mins? Did this and the guardian and made a cup of English breakfast inbetween. And read the bridge puzzle.
  17. I put The Knives Are Out in but was never really convinced it was right. I seemed to spend alot of time muddling the cryptic part of the clues with the straight element and therefore going around in circles and completely barking up the wrong trees! I hadn’t heard of Dirndl and was looking for a holding service that involved the letters from Kilt. Took a long long time to get 14 down.
    Louise
  18. I had some problems getting properly going having started by writing in MACHINE GUN before I finished reading the clue. I completed the grid in just under 60 minutes the last 10 of these staring blankly at 14dn before eventually deciding to go with AFTER as the first 5 letters. Previously I had ruled this possibility out because it was in the clue.

    1. Had no problem with this after many summers past spent in Austria and Germany. The other NDL word associated with it is LANDLER, with or without its additional E.
  19. 31 minutes here. NS as opponents seemed acceptable: items facing each other with the sense of being in opposite camps. Liked 14.
  20. Online clue now has “partners”, so “opponents” must have been viewed as a mistake by someone at the Times.
  21. DNF. Just couldn’t see AFTERSHAVE. I can’t remember seeing a clue where one of the words was half of the answer so I had immediately discounted the obvious ‘after’ start. Happy to have got DIRNDL though. As with most I was confused by opponents NS as I amthinking EN or something similar. Some of us actually do still play bridge on occasion , and highly enjoyable too.
  22. Well done, joekobi, you managed think for yourself rather than follow well trodden paths like those people at the times who changed the online version. Wouldn’t be an issue at the indie or the guardian.
    1. (For those who don’t see IP addresses, I’m replying to the Anonymous who posted at 10:00, 10:18 and 10:57.)

      Questions: if “opponents” is OK for “NS” …

      1. Why is it not used in Times crosswords as a legitimate way of giving solvers a decision to make, just as “stop” (verb) is used in Times clues as a two-way containment indicator?

      2. Why do you not find “opponents = NS” in other cryptic crosswords? (Implied challenge: find an example in the puzzles that you claim would allow it.)

      It’s possible that this would have been left alone at the Guardian, where setters seem to be allowed to write what they want, but based on over 25 years of my own past Guardian solving, I’m not convinced that any of their setters have ever used “opponents” for N,S. I don’t believe for one second that Mike Hutchinson at the Independent would consciously allow it.

      1. Let me second all of that.

        I don’t recall the Guardian, for all its more free-wheeling approach, ever using NS to mean opponents and I’ve only be doing that puzzle, off and on, for 45 years

      2. In the NS as “opponents” debate no-one seems to have considered the context of NS i.e. the NS war. Seems to me – despite the official retraction – that even if normally partners the fighting can tip them into prior hostility so to speak. But Anonymous, though I find it hard at times and you may consider yourself provoked, I don’t think we bloggers should get too adversarial ourselves.
  23. This is getting depressing. I didn’t get round to looking again at Saturday’s puzzle last night so I currently have one correct finish in the last eight puzzles.
    Today I put in THE KNIVES ARE OUT and never questioned it. How could it possibly be wrong with all those checking letters, including a V for crying out loud?
    I’d never have got DIRNDL anyway.
    I’m off to buy a copy of the Telegraph.
  24. No problems today except for finding the word aftershave.. never use the stuff. I did think it odd that the after is in both the clue and the solution. I can’t decide if it is inelegant or very clever; or both.
    I also thought NS = opponents was probably wrong, but it didn’t stop me writing the obvious answer in.
  25. I made a real meal of this, and slotted in AFTERSHAVE as the last answer in 30 minutes. AFFIDAVIT from wordplay. Looking back there wasn’t all that obscure, I just wasn’t on the wavelength of the setter.
  26. 47:48 .. fell into every trap mentioned above and had no clue what a DIRNDL was, finally putting it in with a lot more hope than expectation.
  27. About 54 minutes after staring at 9 for about 10 minutes then giving up and turning to aids. I had considered DID about something + L but dismissed the NDL ending as too unlikely. Also made a mistake by misspelling AFFIDAVIT as AFFADAVIT. I’d never come across DAVIT as a crane before so hadn’t been able to parse it properly.

    I also stared at 19 & 14 for quite some time with all the checkers in place before finally clicking.

  28. 18:29 online. Around 7 minutes of that was staring at 14D.

    I often give up around 15 minutes, but kept on as I felt sure it could not be that obscure. When the answer dawned, I don’t know why I had not seen the cryptic element sooner – I had already thought of a pat on the cheek, but it was only when I connected scrape with shaving that the penny dropped.

  29. 8hrs 23 minutes. I finally got AFTERSHAVE, having thought about it for most of the day; SFREISHAND being the obvious alternative. I’d like a refund on those lost hours, please. Apart from the question mark on NS I also had one on METAL; is aluminium not doing double duty here, or is meant to be a semi-&lit? Oh, and I also had the knives at 15, until I thought better of it, or thought rather than acted on impulse. DIRNDL was the other mystery, but strangely familiar; maybe I was thinking about South Park’s Dreidel. Davits also featured in my Airfix Model Kit days; not a wasted youth after all.
    1. I gave it the benefit of the doubt but there is an argument that says it’s doing double duty

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