Times 24,684 Old Chestnuts

Author   dorsetjimboPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Solving time 15 minutes

I wasn’t in the mood for this puzzle this morning. I needed something challenging, original and amusing but didn’t find it here.

Across
1 HYDE – a reference to Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde by R S Stevenson; off to an irritating start;
3 WINDOW,SEAT – WINDOWS-EAT; strange surface reading;
9 LAMBADA – LAMB(A)DA; an old clue reprised;
11 UPRAISE – U-PRAISE;
12 PRACTICAL – a second literary reference, this time to T S Eliot’s Old Possum’s Practical Cats;
13 PRINT – P(R)INT; the “R” is from “reading, writing and arithmetic”;
14 DELIBERATION – DELIBE(s)-RATION;
18 COMMONWEALTH – COMMON-(the law)*;
21 deliberately omitted – you’ll get it if you’re not lazy;
22 ADMISSION – two meanings;
24 CHIPPED – two meanings again;
25 DORMICE – DO-R(M=mess originally)ICE;
26 DAILY,BREAD – paper=DAILY; money=BREAD;
27 STAY – and two meanings again;
 
Down
1 HELIPADS – HE(LIP)ADS;
2 DAMNABLE – (male band)*;
4 ISAAC – ISA-AC; ISA=the book of Isaiah from Christian Bible; AC=account; reference Abrahams son;
5 DOUBLETON – DOUBLET-ON; in bridge a hand having only two cards of any suit is said to hold a doubleton;
6 WORD,PROCESSOR – change two letters in “work professor”; yawn;
7 ELICIT – E-LICIT;
8 TWENTY – T-WENT-(pla)Y;
10 deliberately omitted – if you haven’t seen this clue before tell us your life story;
15 RAM-RAIDER – RAM-R(A)IDER; sign=Aries=RAM;
16 ALPINIST – (tailspin)*;
17 CHANCERY – CHANC(ER)Y; there are more repeats in this puzzle than on Sky;
19 PLACID – PLA(C=head of clan)ID;
20 ASSISI – hidden (m)ASS IS I(n); beautiful Italian town where St Francis was born;
23 MEDEA – mythological witch married to Jason of Argonaut fame – an irritating finish;

47 comments on “Times 24,684 Old Chestnuts”

  1. … agreed; but didn’t irritate me. Saved under Nursery Slopes. Still, the anagram at 16 wasn’t bad — always like the whole-word ones. Ta to Jimbo for explaining 4dn: not being a Bible expert myself I didn’t see it. [[Ital = tongue in cheek.]] 17 minutes.
  2. Just the right sort of blend of easy techie clues and tougher Classical clues that I approve of! SE corner last to fall: RAM-RAIDER from the wordplay opening up ADMISSION and MEDEA. Last in, on 54 minutes, CHANCERY.

    Isaiah would be an integral part of the Jewish Bible too.

  3. Not sure this puzzle deserves such a grumpy blog, but then some of the old chestnuts still seem new to me. Thought MEDEA was quite cute and I liked WORD PROCESSOR. 34 mins.
  4. Those DAMNABLE alternatives!

    Gee you’re a hard man sometimes Jimbo. As a music lover of several decades I have to remind myself when pondering the triteness of upcoming concert programmes just how miraculous I found Beethoven’s 5th the first time I heard it. As I wrote in LAMBADA I could feel hackles rising across the cruciverbal world, but first time for me. MEDEA (mythology), DOUBLETON (cards, again) and ISAAC (alternate spelling?) all solved without full understanding. I actually enjoyed WORD PROCESSOR but COD to HYDE. Hats off to anyone getting the latter without checkers but you really should get out more.

    2. What did JImbo have for breakfast? It evidently didn’t agree with him. OK, so this wasn’t one of the great puzzles, or especially challenging, but perfectly enjoyable. I can’t see why Jimbo took such an instant dislike to HYDE and MEDEA, which seemed to me clever and unusual literary/classical references, particularly the latter with its ingenious link to RAM-RAIDER. The ALPINIST/tailspin anagram was also nice and WORD PROCESSOR raised a chuckle. Don’t mind Jimbo, setter, he’s just having one of those days.
  5. 25 minutes but DNF without aids as I didn’t know MEDEA or find a way into it. Having looked it up I saw a reference to a ram but not how it fits with RAM-RAIDER which is what the clue seems to require. Probably just showing my ignorance. I’d be quite happy if I had a puzzle like this to blog next Friday.
  6. 18 minutes. A gentle stroll but a few things to hold me up a bit more than yesterday: probably due to inadequate chestnut consumption.
    I’ve never heard of Delibes and didn’t see the wordplay for ISAAC but they couldn’t really be anything else. I hesitated between HYDE and HIDE for a while but plumped for the right one in the end. And MEDEA was a bit of a guess because I wasn’t sure of the Jason connection but what else could it be?
    I wonder if this will be an easy week generally. I could do with one.
  7. I’m at the back of the field today with an embarrassingly slow time, very much like my horse in the office draw for the Melbourne Cup.

    Hard not to feel a touch of sympathy for the setter, mixing up those classical and biblical references with some old crossword favourites – and then running into jimbo on a bad day. If it makes him or her feel any better, I greatly enjoyed HYDE and WORD PROCESSOR.

  8. Made good progress but slowed down by Hyde and helipads, which fell into place when I eventually got practical. Isaac a guess as most bible related answers are for me. Last in, doubleton.
  9. 38 minutes. I was going to say how much I enjoyed this rather old fashioned Times crossword. The mixture of biblical, literary and classical knowledge (not too obscure, mind!) and other cultural references, together with the double definitions suit my cluttered brain and haphazard solving technique better than the more analytical clues. Perhaps I will.
  10. Found myself slowish on an unchallenging task. Last in Hyde which I rather like. 25 minutes – but would prefer to spend twice the time on a scorcher. Clues such as 12 and 10 and some others really aren’t Timesworthy in my view.
  11. Fairly easy but I was slow to complete the SE corner, so not a good time at 30 minutes.

    I thought the clue to Medea was poor, but otherwise I don’t think the puzzle merits all the criticism heaped on it. It seems a fairly typical easyish Times puzzle.

  12. 15:52 .. thought MEDEA was one of those nice ideas that didn’t quite come together. HYDE got a chuckle.

    LAMBADA – what Brazilian mods ride.
    DORMICE – used by students for cooling their drinks

  13. 16 minutes – held up by RAM-RAIDER until got the sign. Had MEDEA from checking letters and definition. Maybe I’m in a better mood than Jimbo, but quite enjoyed this – not too taxing, I admit, but fun, nevertheless.

    Oli

  14. 6:39 for this one.

    “operating system” in 3 isn’t going to deceive anyone used to modern technology but the literary types who enjoy some of the other clues just might think of operating another kind of system.

    Not sure of the exact reason for irritation (just use of any literature?) about 1A – H?D? looked unpromising for a while but when the turning cogs reached HYD? it was suddenly obvious.

    4D solved as a straightforward allusion, Isaac being replaced as a sacrificial offering in the Bible story.

    Also happy with “ram raider” having confirmed that the golden fleece came from a ram and not a ewe.

    1. I’m a bit surprised that nobody (mctext?) has mentioned Bob Dylan in relation to 4dn. The first part of Highway 61 Revisited is based on the story of Isaac, apparently. The things you learn from doing the Times crossword…
      1. I never listen to BZ’s lyrics. They’re average. Only buy his records for the superb harmonica breaks! See above for italics convention.
    2. You’re spot on, Peter. It did take me a while to hit on WINDOWS for “operating system” at 3ac
  16. 23:28 – My fastest for a while, except in my haste I put CLIPPED instead of CHIPPED, so I guess I’d better take a 10 minute penalty. Held up for a few minutes at the end by HYDE & MEDEA – HYDE gets my COD.
  17. There’s a pattern forming this week I think! One of the easiest in while, until I got to 23d which was nigh on impossible if you didn’t know the answer! So a cheat with Google at the end to finish, in about half an hour.

    Unlike Jimbo, I was in the mood for something a bit easier, after spending half my lunchtime queuing in Tesco for fireworks… They may well be old chestnuts to some, but I had ticks by 1ac, 18ac, 26ac, amongst others, and was thoroughly entertained throughout. A distinctly religious flavour today!

  18. 8:52; last in ADMISSION (22ac) and MEDEA (23dn).  Thought I was on for a blinder after the first few minutes, but got bogged down in the NW and especially the SE corner.

    Clues of the Day: 1ac (HYDE), 6dn (WORD PROCESSOR).

  19. 6:29 here. MEDEA was last in, and ADMISSION just before, trying to make more of the wordplay than the double definition.
  20. Two EPs in a row. 23 minutes for this. I’m inclined to agree with Jimbo: this was rather like a primary end-of-term revision period. Everything seen before!

    Can’t get much easier than this!

  21. About 20 minutes, ending with MEDEA and RAM RAIDER. It took me a few minutes to remember why these are connected. Further, RAM RAIDER is not a term in use over here. But this certainly didn’t make me grumpy. The surface for 3A is clunky, but the surface reading of ADMISSION is very good. Regards.
  22. I’m as grumpy as Jimbo!

    As far as I can make out the clue for MEDEA is merely a cryptic reference to an obscure fact. If you didn’t know that Medea was Jason’s wife (where does “assistant” come in, by the way) there is no other way to solve it. No wordplay, no nuffink. Diabolical clue.
    ADMISSION, on the other hand, was beautifully done

    1. Before they tied the knot, Medea used her magic to help Jason accomplish a tricky task set by her dad Aeetes and then assisted again by making sure he scarpered that night with the fleece after dad reneged on the deal.
    2. If you know that MEDEA exists, I’d be quite surprised if you could find much else to fit M?D?A and make any sense as an answer. If you know or intuit that she’s something in Greek myth/literature, a connection with Jason and the Golden Fleece is at least a plausible possibility. That was almost exactly the extent of my knowledge when solving.

      (Results of m?d?a search in ODE: Medea, media, mudra (a hand gesture in Indian dance or yoga).)

      1. But what if I didn’t know that MEDEA existed? There was only one way in to solve the clue which, in my opinion, makes it unfair. As it happens, my best guess was the non-existent MADRA.
        1. In that case you’re scuppered. Some may say quite reasonably that it’s unfair to expect people to know that Medea and similar words exist. But when deciding what a setter can do, it’s hard to formulate a rule that clearly eliminates this clue and still allows the similar knowledge-based one for Hyde, which most people here seem perfectly happy with.

          Sometimes you have to admit defeat, remember the word for next time, be grateful that you didn’t meet this clue in a contest, and move on.

          1. I take your point, but surely there can be a judgement based on relative obscurity. At 1 across Hyde was one of the title characters of a very, very famous book. Jason is also well known, and if that was the answer, I would be applauding the ram-raider reference. I’m certainly not saying that there’s no place for words like MEDEA in crosswords, all I’m asking for is a chance to solve it.
            1. There can be a judgement on relative obscurity, but we know from many discussions here how different people see different things as obscure. (References to football for instance, or “anchorwomen” a week or two ago. Or Jimbo’s apparently equal irritation by HYDE and MEDEA)
  23. No time recorded as I fell asleep in the middle of solving this one. Not that I was particularly bored, just exhausted and possibly sunstruck. I didn’t mind the literary allusions and thought the description of Jason as a ram-raider quite clever, once I worked out it must be he who was being referenced. What’s wrong with WORD PROCESSOR? COD to TWENTY for its left not being equal to L or PORT. And a jolly good night to everyone.
    1. Oh, and good rowing.
      PS. If anyone can explain what “leave your cupboard forget your spill” means I would be very appreciative. It’s been troubling me for over 40 years.
        1. Thankyou from the bottom of my bewilderment. You’ve no idea how many neurons that has freed up. Of course, as a young lad I didn’t understand what they were saying at “cupboard” (despite the impeccably received pronunciation) and I heard “spill” as “swill”.
  24. 11:34 Didn’t find this nearly as easy as yesterday. Always a bit slow to make IT connections so 3 and 6 didn’t come that quickly.I didn’t think this was quite as bad as Jimbo says but certainly nothing too spectacular. I think that there is a good clue somewhere in ram-raider = Jason although I didn’t know his wife’s name so it was all a mystery until I came here.
  25. Some of us who aren’t as experienced at crosswords appreciate having the occasional puzzle which is more straightforward. I felt really pleased I had completed this. Your obvious boredom with it somewhat diminished my sense of achievement.
  26. About an hour to get all I could do, but at the end I for some reason had VERMINE for 25 ac (a presumed alternate spelling, with VERINE a presumed kind of cereal) and then couldn’t do anything with 23. Finally I resorted to a dictionary search to find DORMICE and then was able to fill in MEDEA, much without understanding. So I’m a bit disappointed that I had to resort to assistance. My COD is PRINT, for the cluing of the R, but I also chuckled at WORD PROCESSOR, even though it was a very easy clue.
  27. 5:32 for me (nice to beat Peter B for once :-).

    MEDEA must have held me up for a good half-minute, part of it trying to convince myself that the answer to 15 really was RAM-RAIDER (difficult to see with the initially R covering the clue number, so that I had to go back to the clue), and the other part trying wondering what on earth it was all about – until light eventually dawned. A good old-fashioned Times crossword clue.

    OK, this was mostly pretty straightforward, but there were some nice clues in there and I enjoyed it. I would have thought there was enough to provide a reasonable challenge for the less experienced, so, all in all, a most acceptable puzzle.

  28. Rescued this one from a pile of paper where it had been languishing for a while. My partner had come up with Marmots – (R)odents (M)ake (M)ess originally in OATS (cereal), which fits the bill beautifully but sort of made the down clues a bit tricky!

    Andy H

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