TIMES 24651 – Not quite so easy

Author   jackktPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Another slow solve for me today at a little under an hour though I spent longer working out the wordplay as I went along than I would on a non-blogging day. Once again I don’t think there are any real obscurities and very little, if any, unusual GK was required, so other than perhaps a case of blogger’s nerves I don’t know what my problem was.

Across
1 MELODIST – Anagram of ISOLDe inside MET. “The Met” is the Metropolitan Opera House in New York. I usually think of a melodist as a tunesmith but it can also mean a singer.
5 GRIPES – ‘Grapes’ as said by Dick Van Dyke in ‘Mary Poppins’ perhaps
10 PETIT FOUR – PET followed by anagram of FRUIT around 0. A small fancy cake.
11 CALIF – CALIFornia
12 ANTI – Sounds like ‘ante’, a stake put up in advance
13 PRESENTER – PRESs,ENTER – ‘Press’ = ‘reviews’ as in ‘the show received a poor press’
15 ABSTENTION – ABS short for abdominal muscles then sounds like ‘tension’
17 TEMP – Cryptic definition.  On edit: Thanks to Peter for pointing out this is also a hidden word. It was one answer that went in so quickly I didn’t really think about it though I had noticed the lack of hidden answers today when trying to decide which clues to leave out.
19 Omitted. Please ask if baffled.
20 WINE TASTER – WIN(ETA S)TER – Not quite happy with the definition ‘helper in chateau’ here
22 MARDI GRAS – M,AR(DIG)RAS – Arras is a town in Northern France once famous for tapestry
24 DIES – Double definition, one being the Latin for ‘day’
26 NAOMI – MOA flying backwards in Northern Ireland
27 CHAPERONE – CH(A PERON)E – Our regular revolutionary returns to service alongside his fellow Argentinian and first lady
28 YANKEE – NAY reversed, KEEp
29 BEDSTEAD – DEBATES*,widespreaD
 
Down
1 MOPE – MO,PE
2 LET ONES HAIR DOWN – LET (ONE,SH,AIR) DOWN
3 DETAILED – DE(TAIL)ED
4 SLOOP – POOLS reversed
6 ROCKER – c ROCKERy
7 PULL THE OTHER ONE – (HELP TO RUN HOTEL)* ,East
8 SAFARI PARK – S(A FAR I)PARK – The presence of the Island of Sark led to some confusion here
9 GRUESOME – G(RUES)O,ME
14 PAPER MONEY – PA(PERM,ONE)Y – ‘Perm’ = ‘set’ as in the hair treatment
16 TAIL RACE – Tunnel,AIL, RACE –  A channel that carries water away, from a waterwheel for example
18 Omitted. Please ask if baffled.
21 DIVINE – DIV(IN)E
23 STAKE – S,TAKE
25 SEED – The River DEE’S reversed

58 comments on “TIMES 24651 – Not quite so easy”

    1. I went to see this show last night and I rather enjoyed it, but that is at least in part because it never even occurred to me at any point that what I was watching was supposed to be “stand up”.
  2. 8:52 with one mistake – an over-hasty WINE WAITER at 20. A poor show, as “helper in chateau” is the sort of vague suggestion rather than definition which I keep telling everyone else to stay well clear of. But a mistake now makes it possible to believe that the next one will be on the other side of Cheltenham.

    I missed it too when solving, but 17 is also a hidden word, making – “Short employment contracts for me” an &lit/all-in-one.

  3. Astray on 10 guessing petit poir though on seeing answer “knew” it. 29 minutes. Rather like the testing quality of the last three – breezy but not gale-force, a tad racking yet not gut-wrenching. COD 5 for the suffering oenophile.
  4. Brain back in gear today after yesterday’s obtuseness and solved in a decent time for me although still slower than Jack of course. Disconcertingly the 2 long ones didn’t fall straight away (not helped by sticking EXAM in the wrong place) and hats off to anyone spotting “party” as a verb (or MOPE as a noun come to that). The only guess was TAIL RACER but my reasoning for WINE TASTER (ET as a foreign rather than alien character, with AS in the clue) demonstrates again why I need to learn the Greek alphabet. Perhaps once the Bridge course is finished.
  5. Didn’t like 13ac and didn’t fully understand wordplay: I half persuaded myself that ‘presenter’ could be derived from the convoluted construction ‘pres[s] enter’ = ‘record’.
    1. Not sure of the point you are making, martinfred, that’s exactly how it is derived as noted in my blog and I can’t really see that it’s particularly convoluted for a cryptic puzzle. But maybe I’ve misunderstood.
      1. Dangers of misunderstanding! I read your blog to imply that ‘presenter’ is derived from two distinct words: ‘pres[s]’ = (brief) reviews, ‘enter’ = ‘record’. I didn’t get this far. All I could come up with was the phrase ‘press enter’ (an instruction you seem to meet frequently when wishing to record), out of which I deleted a random (not clearly justified by the wordplay) ‘s’. Hence my comment that I didn’t fully understand the wordplay and that I was only half persuaded of my (not the setter’s) ‘convoluted construction’. The reward for coming to this site is to be put right. Thank you.
  6. Arras also saw heavy fighting in WWI, and always reminds me of Sassoon’s bitter poem.

    “Good morning, good morning!” the General said,
    When we met him last week on the way to the line.
    Now the soldiers he smiled at are most of ’em dead,
    And we’re cursing his staff for incompetent swine.
    “He’s a cheery old card” grunted Harry to Jack,
    As they slogged up to Arras with rifle and pack.
    But he did for them both with his plan of attack.

  7. For newer solvers, 9 times out of 10 “out east” in a clue indicates deletion of an E. This clue misleads by using “out” as an anagram indicator, and “east” to mean the addition of an E. But I’m sure the old hands didn’t buy the dummy.
    1. If out had meant delete e, there wouldn’t have been a anagram indicator, was my reasoning for adding the e.
  8. Enjoyed the distinctly retro flavour of this offering, with NAOMI, CHAPERONE, DIVINE transporting us back to the flapper age. Held up by five at the end (15, 16, 18, 21 & 26), with five minutes of my 67 spent on TAIL RACE alone, which was the only unknown. Can’t see much wrong with WINE-TASTER: a château is pretty much synonymous with wine and there’s a question mark too. I failed to account for the possibility of both initial and final letter being required to be taken off at 6, so wondered what ROCKER could have to do with ‘rockery’. Then again, I’ve managed to live a very cloistered life, as my understanding of rocker was hitherto limited to the italicised part of the Oxford online definition: a young person, especially in the 1960s, belonging to a subculture characterized by leather clothing, riding motorcycles, and a liking for rock music. COD to LET ONES HAIR DOWN for, as Barry notes, the cleverly misleading surface that had one expecting a noun phrase.
    1. It was ‘helper’ that struck me as a bit odd. I’d have thought a chateau would employ a staff of tasters for quality control etc and these wouldn’t be considered ‘helpers’. Possible the setter had something else in mind.
  9. This took me for absolutely ever, not one answer jumped up at me, all had to be worked on; once solved it seemed all so easy. Didn’t get the press-bit of presenter either, and tail race was new.

    But clearly my brain was more stubborn than ever, having the last f for 11a, I thought of kalif, then the l arrived, so I thought ok, but why the state? And very very very slowed it dawned upon me that calif might be the right spelling and there was the state suddenly as well. Miracles do happen.

    Thanks for the blog.

  10. Completed in about 45 mins which is pretty good for me.

    All in all a satisfying week – I’ve been pleased to come on here and find that puzzles I’ve managed to get through in reasonable time have not been considered of the ‘nursery slope’ variety, so I suppose I must be making progress.

    Funnily enough it was one of the omitted answers, 18dn, which gave me the most trouble and was my last in. I was convinced ‘guard’ = WARD was the first part of the wordplay so was then looking to tag on something meaning ‘sporting’ or ‘army’ to complete the word. Luckily the begninning of the word was at least right (for the wrong reasons!) so the correct answer came to mind and then I saw the error of my ways.

  12. I did most of this reasonably quickly (just over 20 minutes) but then spent ages staring at 17ac and 18dn. I eventually put in TEMP without understanding the clue (doh!) but just couldn’t see 18dn. Eventually I gave up, came here I found that Jack had ommitted it. I went back to it and somehow the knowledge that it was an easy one unlocked it and I saw the answer immediately. Odd how that sort of thing can happen.
    TAIL RACE was unknown as was YANKEE in this sense: something of a betting theme today.
    I also thought “helper” was a bit odd for 20ac. Everyone involved in the production of wine will taste it of course but the word “taster” suggests a customer rather than a helper.
    1. I don’t think anything like everyone involved in producing a wine gets to taste that particular wine. My understanding from limited knowledge is that in producing wine there is some need for knowledgeable people to taste it before the customers, for purposes like deciding how to blend it with other wines or to determine how much to charge for it. If I’m right, “chateau helper” is a poetic but accurate description.
      1. Perhaps “everyone” is going a little bit far but in my experience tasting happens continuously from before the grapes are even picked to the point the wine leaves the winery and virtually everyone involved will have a slurp and stick their oar in.
        The point is that there isn’t really such a thing as a “wine taster” per se in a winery. It’s a bit like saying you’re the ball kicker in a football team.
        However this is really just nit picking because the clue was perfectly clear.

        1. I can only agree with that up to a point. My first wife’s sister was married into the French wine trade and as a result I’ve seen the inside of more cave than I can remember. Whilst “everybody” has a sup only four tasters really count – le patron, the head winemaker (if different), the regional quality controller and the buyer from the supermarket chain!
          1. I quite agree. The oenologist will also have a big say, but that’s less about tasting and more about chemistry. The wine taster/ball kicker analogy still holds I think.
  13. I have to conclude that this setter has never actually visited the East End. Anybody wandering around saying gripes and meaning grapes would likely find themselves in Bow Nick under suspicion of being a terrorist.

    I thought both 19A EXAM and 18D WARDRESS quite tricky clues in an overall pleasing puzzle with relatively few real grapes.

    1. “gripes” = grapes may not be current or recent Cockney, but I’m sure I’ve established from past investigations that it’s well-attested “wintage” Cockney – I’d put a few pounds on Dickensian grotesques using it.
        1. That was my immediate thought as well, but then the Australian accent owes a lot to Cockney I think, only with longer vowels and not as many consonants. Thanks for the link, which caused much mirth.
      3. On a serious note I do think that if setters are going to use old words and old pronunciations then they should signal that (as is done in Mephisto). One could gripe about DIES clued as “day in Rome” as against “day in ancient Rome”. Usage of supposed Dickensian pronunciations is an even stronger case so rather than “Cockney” how about “In Dickensian London”
        1. “In Dickensian London” would be even more of a sore-thumb indicator than “Cockney”, and both would indicate an even smaller range of possibilities than they currently do. Even if you don’t read Dickens, you can work out over a few months of Times solving that “Cockney” can indicate h-dropping, v/w confusion and the vowel change in today’s grape=”gripe” (I think that’s the lot).

          Because you’re doing this with mostly familiar words rather than mostly words you’ve never seen before or have only seen in other barred-grid puzzles, it’s perfectly reasonable to have different rules to those used in Mephisto.

          (I can’t see what’s “supposed” about the Dickensian pronunciations when he uses unorthodox spelling to make the sounds obvious.)

    2. It just demonstrates the diversity around here. EXAM was my first in with WARDRESS not far behind yet Jimbo found EXAM tricky and a number of contributors seem to have struggled with WARDRESS whilst I was staring blankly at so many other clues.

  14. 39 minutes through rather bleary eyes and with a thick head after too many glasses of “Wild Swan” in Sheffield Station Bar yesterday. (Highly recommended if you’re passing through ….. the range of beers, not the excess.) Also made the “wine waiter” error at first; and was subsequently held up by writing “whines” for 5-across, thinking “this is a bit feeble”. GRIPES was much more like it when it clicked.
    BEDSTEAD. Now there’s a word I always associate with a wonderfully funny song by Flanders and Swann: The Bedstead Men.
  15. 22 min with no help needed. So many plonked in instinctivly. The easiest of the week for me, but I cannot justify this because I had to work so hard to retrospectively justify my answers. I am too bewildered to suggest CODs.
  16. 16 minutes in the bleary early morning, ROCKER the last one in (and from wordplay alone). Also coming from wordplay TAIL RACE and CALIF – PRESENTER went in from the definition.
    1. My last one in too, from the wordplay only. In the U.S. there’s no association with leather and motorcycles … should have remembered “Quadrophenia”.
  17. Busy day today, hence a late post. 23 minutes, mostly enjoyable with chuckles on GRUESOME an WARDRESS, cheerful groan on GRIPES.
    A strange frisson on 29ac, which my instant brain told me was DEATHBED. Unfair on us older solvers and/or retirees, I thought!
  18. 25 minutes with the last 5 on tail race which I put in eventually after discounting all other ideas but still convinced that it would be wrong and, in common with others, wardress. The latter was problematic I think due to a combination of unhelpful checkers and the fact that it was far from obvious which bit of the clue was what (for instance it could have worked as a word for uniform (possibly ending -less) constructed by putting a word for guard inside a word for army.

    I actually really liked the clue for gripes, quite happy that it was based on cod cockney.

  19. 11 minutes although noticed I had a couple of careless typos so will have to get into habit of checking final grid before going to Cheltenham in a couple of weeks time. Had a smile at 5 which was my last in.(it wasn’t as bad as BERIA earlier this week!). The clue for YANKEE (4 selections – 11 bets , 6 doubles , 4 trebles and 1 fourfold) was appropriate. The kind of bet which keeps Ladbrokes share price buoyant.
  20. Pretty difficult, I thought, though I struggled less than yesterday’s. Had to cheat to get 26ac, and it took a long long time to get 18d. I didn’t help myself by putting in LET DOWN ONES HAIR for 2d at first, despite reasoning correctly that the wordplay didn’t support it. Another one who went for WINE WAITER, so not a particularly auspicious end to the week. That’s three in a row I’ve struggled with now!

    I can’t explain 19ac satisfactorily, either. I can see E = each, X = ten, M = Mark(?), but how does it all fit together?

  21. Now today I was on the right wavelength for once, with all answers filled in after about 20 min, and even the guesses were correct. I’m with welsh_jon (and a couple of others) on still not understanding how EXAM fits together, though…?
  22. I found this tough going, about 45 minutes, ending with WARDRESS and TAIL RACE. I didn’t see the cryptic for TEMP either, and YANKEE as a ‘bet’ is unknown to me. CALIF is usually ‘caliph’ in my experience, so I thought that a bit obscure. I also thought the cross references to other clues a nice diversion. Regards to everyone.
  23. Quite a mixed affair today: about 35 minutes to complete. Thought CALIF awful, GRIPES worse! Liked GRUESOME(as in calif etc) and SLOOP. COD to PETIT FOUR!

    Think we may have somethig marginally tougher tomorrow!

  25. Not often I feel pleased in making a mistake, but emulating the great PB made gave it a slight rose tint. In retrospect it is not clear what WAITERs would do hanging around a chateau, as I suspect that domestic help would be a MANSERVANT or BUTLER and that WAITERs are predominantly in commercial establishments. That said I am sure plenty of chateaux have restaurants in them these days. I think what did it for me was the word helper which immediately leads you down one path alone visually.

    Other than that I was pleased with about 18 mins on the basis that i felt it might be a harder one. Perhaps this was solely because it was friday, but then some of the definitions were a little less straightforward than they could be.

    I was also going to have a moan about the definition of ROCKER, since I thought it was more about music than choice of transport, but on looking up I was reminded of the specific MODS vs ROCKERS culture which makes it a more justifiable definition. (My main gripe I guess was that I still considered myself to be a rocker, even though I cant stand motorbikes!)

  26. I found it a welcome relief at 35 minutes, given the previous two days’ efforts. I gave COD to ROCKER, with a nod to Ewan McGregor & Charley Boorman’s Long Way Round, although Mongolia isn’t quite China.

    I was puzzled by the “perhaps” in 19ac. Is this to indicate definition by example? Isn’t an exam a type of test, just as much as a test is a type of exam (assuming the two aren’t synonymous)?

  27. So far as I can see nobody has complained about the clue for this (17ac). Surely ‘contracts’ implies shrinkage, not cutting off at each end?
    1. Collins has Contract = shorten a word or phrase by the omission of letters or syllables.

      Does that cover it?

      1. Yes fine. Thanks. Didn’t know that. Must say it seems a bit odd but as we’re always told, the dictionary is the final arbiter.
  28. Another careless PB-emulator here with WINE WAITER. I saw WINTER round the outside and didn’t really read the rest of the clue. 13:57 to solve, but the last 5 minutes of that was spent on the last four clues in the SE corner. Eventually I worked out CHAPERONE, which gave me TAIL RACE, and the others then seemed obvious.

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