Times 24,235

Posted on Categories Daily Cryptic
An undemanding 12 minutes in this household; greatest pause for thought given by two words where I wasn’t entirely sure of all the possible meanings but deduced it was plausible that the secondary ones existed i.e. had it been under competition rules I’d have submitted without too much fear that I’d blundered. (Though I suppose I would say that now I’ve checked to make sure I’m not publicising any such blunder, of course…) Q0-E5-D3

Across
1 ADIEU – AD + I.E. + U(nwelcome). Blast, I am now being earwormed by The Sound of Music; So long, farewell…
4 CABIN BOY – C(A[BIN]B)OY. Began by thinking there was a COX and thus a BOX involved before working the structure through.
10 RECTORIAL – =”wrecked” + “oriel”. As an extra layer of distraction, Oriel is a college in its own right, named after the architectural feature in question; not that it’s relevant here, it seems Oriel itself doesn’t have a Rector, but a Provost (for future reference see also Warden, Principal, Master, Dean etc. etc.)
11 ERICA – ER(o)ICA, or Beethoven Symphony no 3.
14 NEBRASKA – N(BREAKS)*A, of which Lincoln is the state capital. According to wiki, it’s triply-landlocked, a fact which I find useless but Quite Interesting.
17 LAND GIRL – LAND + (RIG)rev + L(ake); another use of Light=Land (funny how these things come in clusters). Quick research suggests that the US and Australia, if not most other countries, had their own equivalents of the Women’s Land Army.
18 GENEVA – GEN + EVA, a common use of the synonym “dope” meaning information, as in The Straight Dope; more on the reforming activities of John Calvin here.
20 GUIDE – GIDE the novelist round U, as in U and non-U.
25 VENDETTA – our old friend VEN(erable) + “DEBTOR”.
26 TATER – restauranT ATE Raw, which invariably makes me think of the following exchange:

“What’s taters, precious, eh, what’s taters?”

“Po – ta – toes. The Gaffer’s delight and rare good ballast for an empty belly. But you won’t find any, so you needn’t look. But be good Smeagol and fetch me those herbs, and I’ll think better of you. What’s more, if you turn over a new leaf, and keep it turned, I’ll cook you some taters one of these days. I will: fried fish and chips served by S. Gamgee. You couldn’t say no to that.”

 
Down
1 ANTHROPOLOGY – APOLOGY round (NORTH)*.
2 ILIAC – (haemoph)ILIAC, presumably, though this struck me as a bit of a blunt instrument; when all we want are those last five letters, they could have been “the back” of anything from necrophiliac to bibliophiliac, but in order to make sure we arrive at the right suffix, the definition has to be so specific that the cryptic element rather diminishes.
4 CASSIA – CASSIUS – US + A (conspirators in crosswords are regularly the assassins of Julius Caesar, also notably Brutus and Casca).
7 OVERISSUE – a financial term for exceeding the credit limits of an issue of bonds etc; non-cricketers should always be on the alert when the word “deliveries” appears – six (legal) balls, or deliveries, make up one over.
9 MAD AS A HATTER – (ADAM)rev+S(A)HATTER, a phrase with its basis in rabbit-fur and mercury
15 REENTRANT – (NEAR TRENT)*; not having enough faith in my remembrance of geometry lessons past, I quote the definition “An interior angle of a polygon that is greater than 180 degrees” and hope it passes muster.
16 CROTCHET – first of the two double defs where I wasn’t quite 100% certain; the “player” reference is to the more obvious musical note; but crotchet is also the noun from “crotchety”, which I had previously thought to mean simply “bad-tempered”, but is equally valid in meaning “capricious”, it seems.
19 ZAMBIA – swapping the S(on) in ASIA for Z + A M.B. gives the country.
21 EPHOD – ED(itor) round P(riest)HO(use); not a common word but easily worked out from wordplay – an ephod is one of those items of religious significance found largely in the Old Testament, so how regular a word you think it is will doubtless be in proportion to your experience of Biblical texts. Looking into it, the chaplain at my all boys’ school probably avoided the prominent mention of it in the book of Samuel, given that it happens at a place called Nob, and I doubt our response to that would have been especially pious or mature.
23 ROOST – once I had R_O_T, it was hard to see that it could be anything but ROOST = resting-place, and that there was some secondary meaning specific to Orkney, describing a river or the tide or a whirlpool. That sounded very plausible, and indeed it is exactly so.

50 comments on “Times 24,235”

  1. There is indeed that meaning of “crotchet”, which surprised me too.
    The reasonably good Mac OS Dictionary (based on the American OED) has the following:

    2 a perverse or unfounded belief or notion : “the natural crotchets of inveterate bachelors”.

    How poetic and appropriate in the case of some solvers I know on cold Tuesday mornings.

  2. Took an extended lunch break, so didn’t get a time, but probably ca 35 min. Returned from lunch to quickly solve CASSIA CROTCHET TRATTORIA and ROOST to finish. This puzzle exhibited a fair range of degrees of difficulty. I would not be surprised if a number of regulars drop into slow motion with the finishing line in plain sight.
  3. Absolutely spot-on Ross. 12 mins for all except OVERISSUE/NEBRASKA and LAND GIRL/CROTCHET which took a further 20 mins!

    Thank you for the excellent blog Tim.

    I toyed for a while with LUNG GIRL but it didn’t seem to make much sense! I’m not sure that 16dn is terribly satisfactory – “player’s” seems a bit weak for a double definition.

  4. About 45 mins, with a good chunk of that being doubly confused by ROOST & CROTCHET but more so RECTORIAL, which I couldn’t make work even after I had written it in. I kept thinking “noisily smashed” meant there was an F in it somewhere. Done in by a fairly standard homophone indicator! Some good surface readings here; I liked the two “wheres” (14 & 22) but COD goes to RE-ENTRANT.
  5. About 30 mins for me, also with romp until grinding to a halt on the last few. I parsed 7 down not as a cricket reference but “regarding question”=over and “deliveries”=issue in the baby sense. I suppose it probably was the cricket way round though.
  6. I wobbled a bit on this one after a good start and came in eventually at 50 minutes with no time left to work out all the wordplay so thanks, Tim, for saving me the bother of thinking it all out. One tiny point on 9d, it’s a reversal not an anagram at the start. Anagrams of words not in the clue would have been one step too far for my poor brain this morning!
  7. 50 mins before i had to use help for overissue and nebraska, despite having seen over very early on. this was then compouded by the fact that i wrote in cassio without thinking the clue through. cod 10ac.
  8. 6:12 – should have been about 30 secs quicker but rushed into ILIUM at 2D and needed the other checkers in 10A to prove this was wrong. Also wasted a bit of time on GAMBIA at 19D, and entered 17 without wordplay understanding, 22 without seeing the reversed ‘tart’, and 23 without knowing the second def.

    Minor corrections: At 19D, I think you take the Z=unknown first, and then just replace S in Asia with MB. 16D I think you just have to read as a cryptic def – a whimsical fancy which can also be associated with a player. And I think Paul is probably right at 7D, though an “over issue” could be about cricket deliveries.

    1. I think you’re right that 16D is not really a double def, but it’s not really a single cryptic def either, as “whimsical fancy” is pretty much a straight def, and “player” is merely a hint at a different meaning of the word. It’s neither fish, fowl nor good red herring, and although I suppose the question mark makes it OK I don’t really like it much.
      1. I guess I’m using my own classification method, which treats “Cryptic Definition” as a bucket into which I put all clues that don’t match the other categories, including this “def. plus allusion” kind. Not terribly scientific, but it roughly matches the historical development of clues – this kind of clue evolved early on from straight clues, and then more precise cryptic clues appeared.

        This type of clue used to appear much more often than it does now. Some setters of other puzzles still use it more often than in the Times daily (I think we now get one or two a month when 30-odd years ago you could probably find one every day), but in modern-style cryptic clue-writing it’s gone out of fashion.

        1. Thanks for the historical perspective, Peter. I was looking the other day at the Telegraph crossword which was given as a test to candidates for WWII codebreakers at Bletchley Park. Compared with today’s crosswords it is an awful mishmash of weak cryptics, anagrams with the helpful indicator “(anag)” and straight definitions.
  9. 25m – but time includes checking 23d & 16d meanings; fast left side, pathetic rhs.
  10. I’m more impressed than usual by some of the fast times here. My impression was that the setter was feeling a little crotchety at having set him/herself the task of completing a grid with 7 words ending in A and some of that came out in the clueing. I managed to finish despite Ephod and Cassia being new to me (I’m sure someone will say that they are crossword clichés). Also I did not know that Lincoln is the capital of Nebraska and I was only dimly aware that Geneva was a Calvinist stronghold.

    I finished with the DD and the CD. Fortunately, I discovered only a couple of days ago that a Roost is a tidal race in Orkney and Sheffield when I was doing another puzzle. Last in was Crotchet, as the only feasible answer.

    I’m not happy with Trattoria. If the entire clue is an &Lit it gives a rather xenophobic impression of Italian ebullience. Alternatively “Where dessert is…” is a rather feeble definition overlapping with the wordplay.

    1. If the Times runs a clue based on the notion that the Irish are stupid, it’s time to complain, but characterising Italians as excitable seems inaccurate rather than truly xenophobic. (Never mind the unspoken assumption that a trat necessarily has any Italians on the premises!). I wouldn’t discount the possibility of riot appearing in a clue for bIsTRO …
  11. May I borrow your household Tim?
    Again (as a relatively new solver) I wonder if I should be risking my dignity by participating here with all these crotchet like times.
    I did finish (about 2 1/2 hours) but used aids to justify crotchet, roost, Geneva, re-entrant and cassia.
    Couldn’t work out the wordplay for Mad as a hatter, thinking Sadam might be the backwards crazy fellow.
    Questions:
    Does the “raw” in 26ac, apart from being part of hidden word, signify slang?
    And what does Q0 E5 D3 actually mean?
      1. Yes, I saw the hidden word as my blog suggests, but I was looking for an indication of colloq. Perhaps this is my first “quibble”. Usually I keep quiet about quibbles because it usually means I have missed a nuance.
        1. Sorry, I knew you had seen the hidden word. I meant to say “No, it’s ONLY there…”
    1. QED: Q=number of quibbles, E=entertainment, D=difficulty, E and D marked out of 10. So a “perfect score” is Q0 E10 D{anything}. I don’t mind people giving these scores but don’t do so myself because I don’t think it tells you much more than something like “Challenging but fun”, and just like the “marks out of 10” cards shown on the Great British Menu, the exact significance of a 3 instead of a 4 is anybody’s guess.

    2. Timings: you shouldn’t feel embarrassed when some difficult clues or obscure answers make a puzzle take ages. Learning enough cryptic xwd jargon and cliché and checking letter patterns to solve an easy puzzle in 10-15 minutes or less is not that hard. “Flattening the curve” so that you can do them all inside 60 minutes is much harder.
      1. I guess my times would look less bad if I stopped my metaphorical clock before I do the justifying research (research time will be quicker once Chambers arrives – still not arrived despite my order specifying Urgent, mstter of life and death). Thanks again for your Mephisto notes and caution. I did spend a short while with the last one and although I think I found the “gimmes” I didn’t get much further. But as Jimbo suggests doing the “easy” one has removed the fear.
        1. Your times would indeed look better if you stopped the clock before you’d fully understood each clue, but if I were you I wouldn’t bother with the clock at all at this stage.  If you were learning to drive, it would be very odd to time yourself on each journey, and downright insane to worry about being slower than a bunch of racing drivers.  The analogy isn’t perfect, but it’s not ridiculous either.  Peter will be hoping to notch up his third win at Cheltenham.  I (and no doubt several others on this site) will be hoping for a place in the final.  Anyone whose time is almost always under half an hour is a potential competitor.  This is not normal.

          I started solving in earnest about 11 years ago, but I’ve only started timing myself comparatively recently, and then only because of the Championship.  By all means time yourself if you want to, but it’s certainly not worth trying to shave off a few seconds by writing in answers you’re not sure of.  Your initial aims should be understanding and enjoyment – competition can wait!

          1. Thanks Mark, this is exactly what I need to be told. The analogy is perfect except that when driving a car it seems to be preferable to have no brain whatsoever, at least to this lifelong pedestrian. The times taken worry is not so much competitive or to verify my cleverness, it is just that since becoming addicted to these things about 6 weeks ago (daily, jumbos, bank hols jumbos) I don’t seem to do much else. I think I should cut out the jumbos. Off to the Oval now for some 20/20 with newspaper and pencil strictly verboten. I hope that as a beginner, brazen enough to contribute to this blog, that my thoughts will rekindle memories for experienced solvers, and of course amuse.
            1. I love the daily puzzles with a life-long addiction. I am not very quick – 15-20 minutes I think is rather splendid. I can take or leave the jumbos which are so more-of-the-same that they bore me to slumber ( I tend only to tackle them when in bed) after about 20 minutes. Mephisto – I am with those where you are with the daily puzzles and hoping to get more of them completed before the blog appears as I get more used to the clueing style. You could try rationing your time – see how far you can get in 30 minutes or whatever you decide. I had to do this when using a journey as my best free time for the puzzle.
  12. An odd one, mainly easy but with one or two genuine obscurities. Got there in the end, and in reasonable time for me of around 20 mins: but crotchet was a guess; I didn’t understand the wordplay to roost; cassia, iliac, ephod were mainly from the wordplay, all being words I vaguely sensed fitted the definitions rather than actually knew; and I wasn’t sure whether “tater” was really a word. I’m not keen on puzzles that depend too much on obscure facts or vocabulary, so didn’t enjoy this one much. Also disliked the detta/debtor (non) homophone. bc
  13. 11:57, with two mistakes: a just about understandable CRAPSHOT for CROTCHET (16dn) and a wild guess at PRAETORIA for TRATTORIA (22ac).  I take some small comfort in the fact that (as others have noted) both were crap clues.

    Various things I didn’t know here: LAND GIRL (17ac), ILIAC (2dn), CASSIA (4dn), CROTCHET meaning a perverse notion or whimsical fancy (16dn), and ROOST meaning a tidal current (23dn).

    Clue of the Day: 10ac (RECTORIAL).  Nice blog post, too – thanks, Tim.

  14. Didn’t record a time as I put this one aside to mull over 16d, coming back to it later with a very tentative CROTCHET. Out of curiosity, has anyone ever seen or heard the word used in the ‘whimsical fancy’ sense?
  15. 12 minutes, on a first read-through I had LAND GIRL at 17, but the anagram at 13 helped out with that. Things fell into place pretty well, was kind of familiar with GENEVA and CROTCHET. ILIAC and RE-ENTRANT from wordplay.
  16. I found this pretty straightforward, in some respects easier than yesterday’s though my time was the same, around 30 minutes. The obscurities (EPHOD and CASSIA) were easy to get from the wordplay, but my entry of CROTCHET was very tentative, and I didn’t understand the Orkney reference in 23.
    I share the reservations expressed by lennyco and markthakkar about the clue to TRATTORIA – an attempt at &lit that doesn’t really make it in my view. I think 10 was the best clue of a mixed bunch, but 11 was also neat.
  17. 9 minutes – but also went with PRAETORIA and had DROPSHOT at 16d.Drat – Less haste, more speed… In my defence, Morton was running himself out while I was solving, so I may have been distracted…

    Oli

  18. I’m new to crosswords and would be grateful for any advice about how long it takes to become relatively proficient at solving the Times crossword. Especially bearing in mind that I’m starting from scratch. Sorry if this is off-topic. Many thanks.
    Gary.
    1. Good to see another newcomer on this blog. I refer you to Mark Thakkar’s response to one of my earlier submissions today. Elsewhere I think Peter Biddlecombe has referred to between 5 to 10 years but as everyone will tell you the joy of these things is when the solutions are elegant and funny.
    2. How long is a piece of string? A lot shorter than it used to be. If you attempt the puzzles and then use these blogs regularly and assuming English is your first language you should be able to solve most of the daily cryptic puzzles within about six months. As is wisely said earlier in this blog forget times and concentrate upon comprehension and accuracy.
    3. Gary,

      To clarify the difference between my own “5 to 10 years” and Jimbo’s estimate of 6 months: a routine of daily solving attempts and blog reports is something like 10 times more effective than daily solving attempts and unexplained solutions in the paper the next day, based on time required to make similar progress.

      Other brief points: Reading a good book will help – Tim Moorey’s “How to Master the Times Crossword” is the best if finishing this puzzle is your main aim. My “Peter’s Cryptic Crossword Corner” site has “YAGCC” pages which cover the basics. If you’re new to crosswords in general, do some non-cryptic puzzles like the Times2 one as well – you should find them easier, and the cryptic/non-cryptic skills difference is less than many people think.

      There are easier cryptics than the Times, which some would recommend starting off with, but as long as you understand the range of difficulty and its effect on beginners, learning with the Times is fine. As a starter, I’d recommend following the “Memories” and “About this blog” links at the top, and then trying some of this year’s championship qualifying puzzles which are free on the Times Online website, and reading the reports for them (no. 3 of 4 was published last week and will be blogged this Friday) – these are relatively easy puzzles despite being part of the championship. Just browsing through a few reports (with comments) will give you some useful tips too. If you sign up for the Times Crossword club, you can take use their archives and ours to look at old puzzles – between this version and my solo original, we’ve now got reports going back about three years or 1000 daily puzzles.

    4. Thanks for the replies and all the great encouragement and advice.

      Gary

      1. just to be overly pedantic, i guess the answer also depends on how much time per day that you can spare. I totally agree with Peters comments re the online crossword club, since, given a spare couple of hours a day you could happily cover a weeks worth of old crosswords, plus the archives on here, and then, perhaps, in the space of a few months you may be able to “replicate” the 5 years of experience referred to.
  19. 25 minutes for a pretty standard puzzle. Nothing much to comment on or get excited about.
  20. 12:26 here, including a couple of minutes at the end trying to justify CASSIO at 4D, before realizing the answer had to be CASSIA from the wordplay. I knew there was a Cassio in Shakespeare, but didn’t know if he was a conspirator. I finally realized I was getting him mixed up with Cassius and the penny dropped. Never heard of the answer though. I also didn’t know the second meanings of CROTCHET and ROOST, but they couldn’t really be anything else from the checking letters.
  21. The bottom half of this puzzle held me up for a long time, overall about an hour. This can be traced mainly to having never heard of ‘push the boat out’, so the long clue remained blank and indeed was my last entry in the puzzle. All those missing checking letters held everything up, and I also didn’t know roost=current, CASSIA, CROTCHET, LAND GIRL and the financial sense of OVERISSUE. Glad to get through it. By the way, very nicely blogged, topicaltim. Best to all.
  22. In a lot of cases, words appear obscure to one due to lack of specialist knowledge in a particular field: were I an Italian restaurateur, I might well have been familiar with the word TRATTORIA, but as I’m not it was no great surprise that the word had passed me by.

    However, having studied Maths in one way or another for most of my life, the fact that I’ve never come across RE-ENTRANT must surely qualify it as genuinely obscure. It’s the sort of black and white arena where synonyms aren’t of much use and there are more familiar words to describe the phenomenon.

    By the way, could someone explain the wordplay for 3d? I assume it’s UNKNOWING, with UN=peacekeepers, but how does the rest work?

    1. 3D: “fly” is slang for “knowing” (adj.).

      Trattoria: must appear in the names of a large number of Italian restaurants in the UK. I’m not a restaurateur either, just someone who eats out sometimes.

      Both these and re-entrant are in the Concise Oxford. I don’t think you can expect setters to check that (e.g.) all mathematical terms are familiar to particular mathematicians. If it’s in the dictionary, I think they’re entitled to assume that it’s familiar enough.

      1. Thanks for replying — I wasn’t sure if anyone would see my post at this stage of proceedings!

        Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t mean any criticism of the setter — if it’s in the dictionary it’s fair game. I was just pointing out that while I usually assume that words I don’t know are commonplace in a niche I don’t occupy, RE-ENTRANT was a rather different story! TRATTORIA I was merely using as an example of the former: ie a word I happened not to know even though it’s probably common if you’re looking in the right places.

    2. “Fly” as an adjective = cunning or knowing.
      Reentrant remembered from school geometry 50 + years ago. A reentrant angle is (or at least was) > 180 degrees measured internally, and so comes back into the polygon.
      1. Yes, given that ‘re-entrant’ now seems to be defunct, I can imagine it must have been fairly widely used at some point in the past to justify its inclusion in the mainstream dictionaries.

        I can see two main reasons for its demise. Firstly, all that 2D geometry stuff that people used to study in school has largely disappeared from modern curricula, presumably because someone eventually noticed that it was largely pointless! Secondly, in the unlikely event that one did need to talk at length about concave polygons, it’s probably just as easy to talk about the reflex interior angle, rather than coming up with a word specifically for the context.

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