Times 24184 – Phew!

Posted on Categories Daily Cryptic
I was surprised this took me nearly an hour. I started off very confidently in the SW corner having noted there were lots of multi-word answers elsewhere which I thought would fall into place quickly once I had a few checking letters in place, but I swiftly ground to a halt and I’m afraid it was a slow slog through the other three-quarters. I seemed to be just off the setter’s wavelength for much of it. Maybe I spent too long worrying about not seeing all the wordplay as I went along. Some of it was quite tricky and I was paying more attention to it today for writing the blog.

Across
1 SPARS,(cas)E
4 A,SK (FOR) IT
10 PRIM,1,PARA – “Mother for the first time” is the definition. I have met this before, and quite recently, but had completely forgotten it by today. Fortunately the wordplay was clear.
12 R.(O,SET)T.E. – Radio Telefís Éireann are the “Irish broadcasters”
13 GAS,FIRE – Am I being picky if I query the definiton here? I’m not completely happy with “glower” defining a fire of any sort, but a gas fire? “Glow” in this context means to burn without flames which a gas fire cannot do.
14 0,MEGA
15 H(EDGER)OW – Not sure if it’s okay to refer to Native Americans as “Indians”. And did they really say “How” as a greeting or was that just Hollywood-speak?
18 WHO,L(E-H)OG – Just to clarify it’s (Doctor) WHO + LOG around EH meaning “what?”. Tricky stuff!
23 APR1 +C(ustard)O(r)T(apioca) – Only a few days too early for April Fool’s Day
25 TROUNCE – Anagram of lette(R) + ONE CUT
27 FER,DIN,AND – “Recalled man in the middle” is REF (rev)
28 BUTCHERY – (THEY CURB)*
29 OS,M(1)UM – “Repelled parent so” is MUM SO (rev)
 
Down
1 SUPER,L,OO – The policeman is SUPER, short for superintendent.
3 SHIRT-TAIL – (IRISH + LATT)*
5 SHAGGY-DOG STORY – Nice one!
6 F-LOSS – Rather appropriately I suffered endless grief trying to work out the wordplay here, but I suppose “endless grief” might be F-loss. Has anyone’s dentist ever actually given them floss?
7 ROD,RIG,O – The prolific Spanish composer who’s generally remembered only for his guitar concerto
8 T,HE,FEW – where FEW sounds like “Phew!”
9 HAVE THE HOTS FOR – (HEAR OF TV HOST HE’S)*. Such a charming romantic phrase!
16 (v)EGG (COS)IES – Do people still use them? I haven’t seen an egg cosy since my childhood when my granny used to knit them.
17 AD,DEN,DUM – where MUD is the compromising info that’s turned up.
19 HER,RIOT – A reference to the vet James Herriot of All Creatures Great and Small fame.
21 PUN,JAB,1
22 ZAGREB – Split is the largest coastal city in Croatia and Zagreb is the capital.

47 comments on “Times 24184 – Phew!”

  1. 13:45 for this – which I think means my first set of 5 weekday puzzles all under 15 for a fair while. DOn’t know if that’s me getting better or a more even spread of difficulty.

    Very good stuff with only about four or five answers seeming like regular grid fodder, and 9D making its first appearance I think (ditto 1D, and possibly 16 and 8). 13A was last in, fooling me with a new -er invention, even though I was going on about this trick a few days ago [I can now use Jack’s point as my excuse]. “Group” for 8 had me wasting time trying to justify THE WHO (fortunately didn’t think of THE JAM until afterwards). And the “needing a groom” part of 5D had me thinking of a SINGLE lady to start the phrase. 22D seemed a new version of the old favourite Split pun – “Leave Yugoslavian port” etc. etc. After 10, watch out for multipara and nullipara.

    Answer to jack’s Q about 6D: No, the blighter made me pay for it!

    Edited at 2009-03-27 08:18 am (UTC)

  2. Did not record a time, which may be just as well. Probably about 45 minutes before becoming totally beached on 16 Dn, even with the checking letters. I suspect our West Atlantic bretheren will find a few that are not to their liking.
  3. I blitzed most of this in under 10 minutes, but got stuck in the NW corner and abandoned it to go to sleep. I don’t think I’d have got PRIMIPARA – never heard of it, so even working out the wordplay wouldn’t have been a help without resorting to Chambers. I should have got OMEGA, and I probably should have got SUPERLOO and SHIRT-TAIL.

    “Indian greeting” =HOW is probably well-enough known from Hollywood culture to justify inclusion? – although you definitely wouldn’t refer to them as Indians in the real world, and I’m not sure HOW accurate it is in real life either.

    I didn’t follow the wordplay for 6D either, but looking at it now I think “F-loss” is what the word grief has suffered when it is endless. If so, it’s quite clever.

  4. This just might be an Anax puzzle. The clever wordplay and tricky definitions are trademarks. I thought this a brilliant puzzle where I stopped ticking clues after a while because they are mostly so very good. 35 minutes to solve.

    Jack you have a typo at 3D its (Irish+latt) not “latte”

    Like Peter I think several of these answers are appearing for the first time and particularly 1D (I love “posh ladies”) and 9D. After our swapping of views the other day on river=flower (OK by me) and pram=wheeler (offside for me) we now get glower=gas fire and I’m with Jack in not liking it.

  5. A long slog today – must have been getting on for an hour all up, and I was still without 16dn.

    I’ve never heard VEGGIES meaning “vegetarians” (only “vegetables”) and could only think of “(V)egans” which didn’t help, but I should have twigged COS for lettuce.

    Had to guess 1dn and 12ac as I’d never come across SUPERLOO or RTE (why would you?).

    Lots of good inventive stuff though a bit esoteric in places.

    1. I’ve met “veggies” as slang for non-meat-eaters on occasion, but whether it’s justified by a dictionary I do not know.

      RTE timings used to be printed in the daily newspaper (the Express, I believe) when I was a small boy, and the acronym has always stuck with me; so to me, it seems commonplace knowledge. Everything that you already know always seems to be commonplace knowledge to *you*, but others might think differently!

      1. “veggie” is older than I thought – it’s in my 1991 Collins as well as my shiny new COED. The latter has both meanings as “Brit informal”, so not sure why only one made it to Oz. Maybe the “vegetarian” version was turned away at immigration in case it caused confusion about the content of vegemite?!
        1. Has anyone yet mentioned that COED also gives the alternative spelling “VEGIE”? It looks wrong to me but the double “G” is illogical, so it’s all very odd.
          1. My Australian COD has only “vegie” and only with the meaning of “vegetable” (for what that’s worth!)
  6. 20:19. All sorts of stumbling blocks for me here: PRIMIPARA, which I didn’t know, and kept thinking must involve MA; ROSETTE, where I didn’t know RTE; OMEGA, where I couldn’t get OPERA out of my head; TROUNCE, where I couldn’t parse the clue; SUPERLOO, where the P had me thinking it began with COP; EGG COSIES, which I hadn’t heard of (I must be younger than Jack); and ZAGREB, where I hadn’t come across (or couldn’t remember) the town Split. So, a struggle for once, which was nice.

    Some great clues here – I think dorsetjimbo is right to discern the hand of Anax. My favourites were those for RHINO, SHAGGY-DOG STORY and CLOTH.

    I thought ‘Doctor’ for WHO was out of fashion, it being reasonably well known (at least to those who know that Casablanca doesn’t include the line ‘Play it again, Sam’) that the main character in Doctor Who isn’t actually called Doctor Who.

    1. I’m sure you are younger, Mark, but egg cosies, to me, are something from my grandmother’s era rather than my own. As a matter of interest I looked at some on-line shops and the only place I found offering them for sale is John Lewis where they are marketed as a gift for “baby”. I also found their Sheffield store offers:

      Saturday 28 March12.00 – 4.00 Haberdashery, Ground floor. Knit a chick for Easter! There’s a choice of an egg cosy or a cream egg holder. You buy the wool, we give you the pattern. They’d make an ideal Easter gift for mums or dads. …

      1. I understood that, but I don’t think my grandparents had them.  (I might be wrong, of course.)
    2. Delighted to find another who admits to enjoying a struggle! 45 minutes and no egg cosy till the blog.
  7. 38:20 .. and pleased just to finish it unaided. Filled with so much invention and so many ‘Doh!’ moments that quibbling seems ungracious.

    I wouldn’t want to solve one of these every day, but once in a while it’s a mind-stretching treat – a puzzle that writes its own rules. Forget Anax – I suspect the hand of Salvador Dalí or René Magritte.

    One Across Rock – bhangra b-boy crew Sparse Punjabi Rhino

  8. It’s even older than that, and apparently not so British after all. The first citations in the OED are from:

    – a dictionary of American slang (1975);
    – the Washington Post (1978);
    – Updike’s Rabbit is Rich (1981), in an exchange that suggests it was a bit fuddy-duddy not to know it (“Melanie’s a veggy, Dad.” “Veggy?” “Vegetarian,” the boy explains);
    – the Times (1984).

  9. I felt lucky to finish in 45 minutes, fearing my lunchtime wouldn’t be long enough when I only had the SE corner filled after almost half of that. Lots of ticks beside the clues today, and a few I didn’t have time to confirm the wordplay on before coming here, so felt pleased all were present and correct.

    One quibble for me – is “ill pro” supposed to equal FOR? Isn’t then the lack of an apostrophe cheating somewhat?

    COD 26.

    1. I think the def. is “Invite ill” (‘ask for it). The wordplay is simply pro = for.
  10. Well over the hour, but a very enjoyable solve with many clues bringing a smile when I saw what was going on.

    It was a game of two halves – a thirty minute struggle to get less than half of the clues, followed by a twenty minute lull when virtually nothing went in, and then a steady final twenty minutes to knock it off.

    I had come across PRIMIGRAVIDA when my wife gave birth to our first child many years ago, but I had not encountered the word PRIMIPARA.

    I can live with ‘glower’ for a gas fire, but I am generally tolerant of slightly iffy definitions if they are amusing and original, and I can confirm the answer from the wordplay.

    1. I wanted to remind myself of the difference between primigravida and primipara so I consulted Chambers where I came across the definition: prim-2=primigravida as in “elderly prim”=one of 25 and over. So that’s official then, my daughters were oldies when they produced our grandchildren!!
    1. Yes, REGGIE is bound to have been the model for VEGGIE.  The only (other) words that end in -EGIE are RÉGIE, which is French, and CARNEGIE, which doesn’t sound like an adjective from (veggies look away now) CARNAGE.  So insofar as a newish word can have misspellings, I’m inclined to view VEGIE as one – despite its appearance in dictionaries.
  11. The dentist set the tone for me. Like pulling teeth. Never try one like this at the end of a long day, nor in front of the tele, RTE or no. Not so bad on the left side (apart from having to check PRIMIPARA – I’ve met this before in crosswords – and wondering what a SUPERLOO was) but I stared blankly at the right through most of Rebus and Vincent (that’s two separate hour long programmes). My front running group at 8d was THE THE, fitting in with GAR FISH and FLOUR (as in endless flouride), but I remained strangely unconvinced by any of those alternatives. Anyway, it was sorted in the end (by asking somebody else). And my dentist does give out complimentary floss; of the kind which breaks apart and hangs irrevocably stuck between your teeth for that jaunty I’ve just eaten my hat look.

    Liked 10 for its “servicemen dropped”, 18 for its “doctor”, 25 for its “paste”, 9 for its “fancy” and (grudgingly, since it thwarted me for so long) THE FEW. I’ll givr 5 COD for its “Relation”. Some very tricky stuff.

    The Rhino’s became the “voice of Tesco’s”, I believe, with their hit “Osmium Apricots” blaring out across the food hall on 10 minute rotation.

  12. I briefly dated an American Indian woman and she told me that Indians much preferred to be called Indians to native Americans, which was not a phrase they’d come up with. To them, native American just means anyone born in the US (as it would in the phrase native Texan).

    And here in the US, every time you go to the dentist they give you a small container of floss. I assume it is donated by the floss manufacturers and is a form of marketing.

  13. Anyone attempting the crossword for the first time today, after reading Tim Moorey’s Crossword 101 article in The Times yesterday would have been rapidly disillusioned. At least, if they followed the link to this site they would be reassured to find that most of us struggled.

    This was brilliant, though it took most of the day, on and off, hence the late post. I had to deduce 10 from the wordplay so I arrived at Primitama meaning for the first time. Sadly it is not yet in the dictionaries. Like Duncan and Jimbo, I had met primigravida before but not primipara. I remember my 26 year-old medical wife describing herself as an elderly primigravida.

    Superloo was clever. I think Rufus in the Guardian would simply have clued it as “Maybe posh ladies”. I do not know whether that would be more or less difficult.

    I have met Split before in clues such as “Split personalities may live here” for Croatia.

    I had no trouble with glower for gas fire but has anyone explained the yak kick?

      1. Thanks, I should have got that since, to use my own neologism, it is not the primitama that I have met it.
  14. Several tube rides worth, so i reckon about 45 mins in total. quite liked 24D for surface alone. never heard of primipara but had prim and para so put it in. If the middle letter hadnt been checked i may have struggled or guessed. Also put in rhino on the basis of the big game and the letters alone, had to look up to see the money implication.

    As a relative novice I quite like getting an answer I am happy with from the structure without actually knowing the definition – in todays case both rodrigo and primipara fitted that category.

  15. Talking of poor unfortunate novices, the clue at 13a is a nasty swine. Making YAK KICK out is 100% standard for flagging an anagram of YAK+KICK. Not that there will be an anagram of YAKKICK – but there SHOULD have been. It took me ages to get this out of the way before I saw YAK = GAS. I agree with others that GLOWER and GAS FIRE are incompatible……sorry
  16. Wow. Stumped by PRIMIPARA, SUPERLOO and EGG COSIES. Never had heard of these, and having the first two of these crossing each other was too much for me. I’m pleased to have gotten the rest. Truly a mind stretcher of a puzzle, with many of the clues being very very clever, my COD being WHOLE HOG. Regards to all.
  17. Just for future reference, it’s “flUOride” (and “flUOrescent”) so I’m afraid that was a non starter!
  18. I was expecting 19 Dn to be the gotcha outside of the commonwealth. The vet must have been travelling after all.
  19. Difficult, to say the least, and as someone above implied, it may undo all the good work of yesterday’s T2 article.

    One quibble (21dn): a pun is a play on words, which may or may not be a joke (= crack). So in my opinion one can’t say that a pun actually is a crack.

    1. Point taken if one goes by Chambers, and Collins has only “often humorous”, but the single definition in COED is: Pun n. A joke exploiting the different meanings of a word or the fact there are words of the same sound and different meanings.

      This exonerates the setter, and blame, if there is any, lies with the dictionary compilers.

  20. Well I’m a novice who followed the link from the T2 article and I’m impressed and thankful for the explanations that you all give.
    Just for the record, it took me about an hour to solve none of the clues; I hope to get this down to 55 mins today.

  21. Wow. 35 minutes of pure joy. Like Jimbo I stopped ticking clues after a while as there were so many that would have scooped the COD gong in any number of other puzzles. In recent weeks when I’ve moaned about puzzles lacking in originality and wit it’s the sort of stuff this puzzle is chock full of that I was talking about. Hoorah for the setter, be he (or she) Anax or not.

    Q-0, E-10, D-8, COD: take your pick.

  22. An excellent one but with nothing that didn’t escape understanding.

    There are 5 left out of the blog:

    11a School diet includes no chicken (5)
    OLDIE. Hidden in first 2 words. No spring chicken = OLDIE but just chicken?

    20a Grand-daughter holding mirror was yawning (5)
    G APE D. From this we can deduce that Grand-daughter can = GD. Maybe an accepted abbreviation from Family Trees or the like?

    26a Ready for big game? (5)
    RHINO. Rhinoceras means nose horn. Rhino horn can be very valuable but no one seems to know exactly why RHINO = MONEY = READY.

    2d Article and paper under debate (2,5)
    A TISSUE

    24d Reluctant to support Conservative ministers (5)
    C LOTH

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