Times 24165 – a catch, a hitch, a moon and some stinking fish to cry over

Author   glhPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Solving time : 23 minutes. I thought I was going to get to do this quickly before a rehearsal last night, but that didn’t happen and when I got in it was too late so I put up the placeholder. Attacked this in the morning, and was making pretty steady process until being interminibly held up by 5 and 7, finally the penny drop on each of them came at once. This was a challenge, I got very few from definition alone and my copy is scribbled all over with part-words and wordplay.

Across
1 HYPERION: A moon of Saturn – wordplay is RI (Rhode Island, the state) seized by HYPE, ON(=about)
5 ORACLE: stunningly hidden!
10 EXTROVERT: EX(=partner once) then ROVER in TT(teetotalling – “leaving drink”)
12 CHUB(by): being completely indiscreet, the reverse wordplay appeared somewhere else this week
15 LUMBER,JACK: I think LUMBER here is meaning to land as in to burden – a rare one from definition
17 SNIP: double meaning – toyed with SNAP, but SNIP fits the “Cut” part better
20 QUARANTINE: RAN in (QUITE,AN)*
22 EYESHADOW: (WAY HE DOES)* – one word in Chambers, I thought it may have been two words or hyphenated
26 ON,SET
27 CATCH,LINE: I had the CATCH part in here without the second half until I opted for the last word of 7 down
28 TIN,POT: TIN is NIT backwards, and POT is used in the snooker/pool version of shoot
29 CHITCHAT: HITCH in CAT
 
Down
1 HE,EL: “His Excellency” for ambassador should be filed away in the brain of the regular solver, and I will know how to address an ambassador if I ever should meet one
2 PUT THE MOCKERS ON: Knew the phrase, it is very common in Australia, usually meaning that if you’ve just said something nice they’re doomed to fail. Let’s try it out… Graeme Smith and Jaques Kallis are excellent batsmen and Dale Steyn bowls beautifully.
3 ROOT BEER: Great wordplay! TO reversed in ROBE(=habit), then ER is our monarch
4 ON(bowling),END: without a break is the definition
6 RESORT: OR in REST – nice surface
7 CRY(shout),STINKING(very drunk),FISH(search): totally from wordplay, never heard of this phrase. Chambers says “to decry one’s own goods”. A google search of the phrase turns up a rather odd “Time” article from 1947.
9 STOCK(=race),CAR(e): nice clue and if you live where I live, there’s no avoiding the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing
14 CLAPPED OUT: C(ountry) then (POPULATED)*
16 JAUNDICE: JA(r),(INDUCE)*
21 GHETTO: H in GET TO
23 WITCH: C in WITH(=and)
25 BEST: Double definition

37 comments on “Times 24165 – a catch, a hitch, a moon and some stinking fish to cry over”

  1. Perhaps more tough for the non-UK folks, since both long 15 letter down clues seem to be Brit-isms that I’d never seen nor heard before, ditto 14D. So it took me about 45 minutes again, but to those familiar with MOCKERS and CRY STINKING FISH it surely would have come more easily. I needed all the checkers for both of these, and 5A was extremely well hidden, it and 7D my last two entries. I hope I have it all right today, although I think both SNIP and SNAP are acceptable for 17. Snip=cut more closely to me, snap=piece of cake more closely, the other meanings for both seem acceptable, if uncommon. Ya pays yer money and takes yer chances, and I entered SNIP. Regards, look forward to reading others thoughts later today. COD 5A.
    1. 35 minutes excepting 5a & 7d when I ran out of commuting time. 5a deserves a prize and I deserve the boot for failing to spot it until I got the C by using a solver to complete 7d.

      At 7 I was pretty sure of STINKING as the middle word and I considered both RICH and FISH for the last one. If I’d had the C in place I suppose I might have thought of CRY STINKING FISH though it’s not an expression I’m familiar with. I imagine it has now been superseded by “Doing a Ratner”, if I’ve understood its meaning correctly.

      Another very enjoyable puzzle.

  2. Hi Kevin.Probably a Commomwealthist puzzle, since the Britishisms you mentioned are just as current on the flip side of the world (NZ). 25 min, COD 20 ac? 17 Ac certainly snip. “Its a snip”, and “its a piece of cake” have identical meanings.
    2. Best of luck with the rain, and if ‘Commonwealthist’ is a better description, I gracefully withdraw ‘Brit-ism’. My SNIP/SNAP fencesitting was due to the fact that ‘it’s a snip’ doesn’t mean much of anything over here. The ‘piece of cake’ is synonymous with ‘it’s a snap’, and a ‘snip’ as something easy is an uncommon meaning. Regards, stay dry.
  3. 28 mins here – I thought this was less tough than yesterday, mainly because only 1ac requires particular knowledge.

    I’m not sure what “Doing a Ratner” means, but as I understand it “cry stinking fish” is something that you proverbially don’t do – ie, deprecate the things you are selling or “put down one’s goods”.

    I though 6dn was clever, disguising the capital N at the start of the clue and the deceptive “one serving men”.

    Overall a nice puzzle.

    By the way, I haven’t missed the Z which would make the pangram, have I?

  4. 7:12 so much easier than yesterday – less knowledge as kurihan says, and generally less fiendishness in the wordplay. At 17A, the “easy task” meanings are both there, but ‘snip’ fits much better for ‘cut’ – you can’t snap with scissors or a knife.

    My brain did come up with “pangram?” at some point but I was steaming along fast enough not to stop and look for any missing letters to help with the last answers. Which were: 5 (red face there) and 1A, where I’d been suckered into pondering abbrevs for places like Puerto Rico. “Moons of the planets” is not a category that I’ve got off pat (too many), nor “Titans” which would give me most of Saturn’s, so had to rely on wordplay and “it’s the right kind of name”.

    The fish phrase isn’t very familiar to me, so it slowed down the RH a bit. Here’s the detail on Ratner, who has pretty much replaced this phrase in “Brit. informal”.

    Edited at 2009-03-05 08:48 am (UTC)

  5. More straightforward than yesterday, but still took about 40mins. Not held up anywhere in particular, except for the fish. I too dallied with crying stinking rich, which must be the opposite of crying poor. Wondered in what circumstances that might be applicable. Compulsive bill paying in restaurants? Also took too long to see 5. With that and SNAP I probably deserve the balloon, but don’t feel that stupid today. COD 18.
  6. A good work out, nowhere as difficult as yesterday although I suspect that yesterday sharpened us up so that this one came a little easier. 25 minutes to solve.

    Once again there are some excellent clues. We have had some really good hidden words lately and ORACLE at 5A is up there with the best. It was finally seeing that one that gave me the long 7D. I haven’t heard that phrase for years but think it originated in the fish market of Billingsgate in London.

  7. A rare event for me – I finished in one sitting so I have a time. 21 minutes so must have been on the easy side.
    Didn’t even need my wife’s help this time. Looking forward to reading the blog. Also had ‘snip’ for 17a. Nearly got stuck on 4d where I thought ‘no end’ might be a possibility because of the ‘bowling’ reference (in another sense naturally). That made Hyperion a bit awkward – my last in.
  8. One of those puzzles where I could steam ahead for most of the puzzle but slowed up right at the end. HYPERION wasn’t too troublesome once I had the checked letters in place, but getting CRY STINKING FISH drove me mad. I’ve possibly come across the expression once in my life many years ago. 35 minutes in all.
    ORACLE was well hidden, and I liked Mickey Mouse as a definition for TINPOT.
    1. Many “dictionaries” of Australian slang give Mickey Mouse as meaning excellent or very good. Whenever I hear the expression used this way and I’m always taken aback, particularly when it’s a tradesman describing the end result of their endeavours.
  9. 29:18… similar pattern to yesterday for me, racing through much of it then getting utterly becalmed in a few spots. I convinced myself that 1a must be Honduras or Honolulu or something, before finally getting the excellently disguised MOCKERS clue.

    I can’t remember the last time a hidden word confounded me for so long; my compliments to the setter for ORACLE. Ditto for the stinking fish – surely a phrase worth resurrecting, though jackkt’s spot on with his Ratner analogy.

    Nice to see the setter joining in with my little One Across Rock game by giving us prog-rockers Hyperion Oracle on the top line, and their difficult second album Tinpot Chit-Chat across the bottom.

  10. The same as yesterday here – 50 minutes, with a good ten minutes of that staring at the NW corner, which miraculously it appears I’ve got right. Looking forward to the blog to have a look at the ones I didn’t fully understand. COD 28ac.
  11. Difficult though it was, it spurred Chubby Page to form the tribute band Hyperion Eyeshadow, which played to many a sweaty audience on the pub circuit around Sydney’s western suburbs.
    1. “sweaty audience on the pub circuit around Sydney’s western suburbs”? Bono, eat your heart out.
  12. I couldn’t solve 2Dn, ending up with “put the mickeys on”: a bizarre guess derived from “take the mick[ey]” whilst simultaneously realising it didn’t work with the wordplay. Although Australian, I have to confess I’ve never heard of putting ‘the mockers on’ (or taking them off, for that matter); although perhaps I simply misheard “put the knockers on…”

    Certainly this puzzle was nowhere near as elegant as yesterday, but the hidden word in 5A was possibly the best I’ve seen.

  13. I’m obviously in a minority, but I didn’t like this at all. Yesterday, everything was crystal clear with no doubts about the right answer. Too often today, I hung back from entering the correct answer because it just didn’t feel right in terms of the wordplay.

    Perhaps I have got some wrong – but I can’t find CATCHLINE in Collins or Chambers, although it is in the Shorter Oxford. I am not sure of the wordplay in LUMBERJACK (I get the JACK bit OK, and the definition of ‘feller’). I can’t find ON END in Collins, and Chambers definition of ‘at a stretch’ only just conveys, to me, the meaning of ‘without a break’. As I say, I may well have these wrong.

    My favourite clues were 28a,20a and 16d.

    Like others, my last two were CRY STINKING FISH (a new phrase to me, but fair enough; I do crosswords to learn new words and phrases) and ORACLE (very well hidden).

    1. To “lumber” somebody is to land them with an unwanted or unpleasant task, so its LUMBER=land; JACK=sailor
    2. Like catchline mentioned by lennyco, “on end” is defined in COED (under ‘end’) in the way that fits.
  14. Until recently, I would have given up afte 20 minutes and resorted to online aids. With my new-found puritanism (partly as a result of reading this blog) I plodded on and eventually finished unaided in 40 minutes.
    I always thought that to cry stinking fish meant to denounce someone else’s produce rather than one’s own so it’s no wonder that I was confused by the compiler’s (correct) definition. In common with many others, the hidden word was almost the last to go in. I thought that three, four-letter double definitions on the RHS were a bit unfair. They are always the hardest to solve.

    I wanted to put catchword at 27 but could not justify word as a transport company. On checking, after completion, I see that catchline is not in Chambers or Collins, although it is in COED.

    1. Welcome aboard, he says one day late. Interesting point about the 4-letter DDs. In my usual role as counsel for the (setter’s) defence, I’d mention that only one of them (25) has unhelpful checking letters, and that the DD clues for the puzzle (13, 17, 24, 2, 25) don’t intersect at all, so checking letters can come to the rescue.

      As for puritanism, we try to keep this a broad church. If enjoy the Times puzzle, how you do so is up to you. Only feel pushed towards unaided solving if it will make you more pleased when you get to the end.

      1. Thanks for your cordial welcome Peter. With reference to the DD at 25 down, one of the interesting things that I have learnt in doing crosswords is that the antonyms best and worst are synonyms for defeat. On the day that I see the clue “Best and worst (6)” I shall be off to a flying start
        1. I suspect we’ve already had the “best and worst” clue, but ones like that do get repeated (otherwise newer solvers wouldn’t get to see them). There’s similar entertainment with words like cleave and sanction which have opposite meanings, but the only thing I can find to match {best = worst} is {tall = small} where tall is in the Starbucks coffee sense – the smallest size actually sold, not as big as grande or venti. These seem to be the usual terms in the US and maybe not the UK, but I’m sure I’ve come across tall=small in some coffee context here.
  15. Strange you should say that. An angry audience at the Merrylands Bowls Club once threatened to rip Chubby’s heart out if the poker machines weren’t turned back on.

    Oh, and I relly deserve the ballon now, for I see I didn’t undestand 9d at all.

  16. 21 minutes. Had never heard of CRY STINKING FISH then took far too long to get 6d especially as I instantly recognised Nice as not being ‘nice’- two years ago in the Times Grand Final one clue which bamboozled me had “Nice policemen” defining gendarme , so a fair chance it might be the same setter.
    Last to go in was 5 as it was , as George says, ‘stunningly hidden’ and I could only look at ‘Search for’ as the definition.
  17. felt a bit cheated by On End but happy enough. Liked both Hyperion and Oracle. did this in around 45 minutes. thought there were some great clues and thought it was fairer than yesterday’s!

    Cry Stinking Fish was new to me but easy to guess once one had all the crossing letters

    well done setter!

  18. Took me a couple of hours but just about got this finished. Cry stinking fish was a completely new one for me. It does create a fun but smelly image.
  19. Thank goodness I can now put this one to bed! 7 down got me too, as did Hyperion (I had guessed it might be a planetary moon, but I only know Io and Callisto! Now I know that I can google the number of the crossword and get the solution, I can move on to the next one without it gnawing at me!

    Thank you, Regards, Susan

  20. As well as being one of the 12 Titans – children of Gaia – and one of Saturn’s moons Hyperion is also a satellite borne “Hyperspectral” imaging device. My second one in after 1d HEEL.

    There are 6 “easies” omitted from the blog including some of the double definitions that litter this offering:

    11a Consent to state the truth (3-2)
    SAY SO. DD1.

    13a Who paints chap giving medals? (9)
    DECORATOR. DD2.

    19a Clip showing piano virtuoso (4)
    P ACE

    24a Call sheet (4)
    PAGE. DD3.

    8d I promote myself – I get proper plays (3-7)
    EGO TRIPPER. Anagram of (I get proper).

    18d Loses temper over stolen picture (8)
    SNAPS HOT

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