Times 24141 – wrong numbers again

Solving time: 17:57

I would probably have done this slightly faster if the letter-counts had not been wrong for most of the clues in the new-style print-out. I skipped yesterday’s puzzle and so was unprepared. 1 and 6A and 24D were right. Each other clue had the count of the immediately following clue. Unfortunately I didn’t work that out until after I had finished, and so I was held up on clues that were more than one word (or that I wrongly suspected were more than one word).

Apart from that distraction this was a fine puzzle with interesting words but nothing too obscure. I didn’t know that “rumba” could be spelled with an added H. And although “Stock Exchange reform” means Big Bang to me, it might be unfamiliar to anyone from outside the UK, or younger than mid-thirties.

Across

1 PAR(AD)IS + AL(l)
10 OUT + (h)AND-OUT
11 SINBAD THE SAILOR – (TRAINS ABOLISHED)*
13 BAR + A, THE, A
14 R(HUM)BA, RBA being BAR*
16 O, VIE, DO!
18 TRI(BUN(g))AL
23 IN PRIVATE – this was obviously an anagram, but without the word count I found it rather tricky
25 AL(I)BI
26 ENOCH – CON(rev) in EH?
27 PAT + A GO + NI + A, NI being IN(rev)

Down

2 RIP + SNORTING – a rather antiquated meaning of RIP
3 DO + R(oo)M + ANT
4 S(COT)TIES
6 BONE ASH – (=”Beau Nash”)
8 WATER + RAIL – is water really a way of getting across the channel
12 L.A. MEN + TATI + ON
15 BROW + BEAT (=”beet”)
17 D(O(ld) N, N)ISH
19 BI + G(B)ANG
20 ESCA(R)P(e) – quite complicated wordplay
22 ELI + Z + A
24 PRO – hidden

31 comments on “Times 24141 – wrong numbers again”

    1. I am baffled. I have just looked just now and it is fine. But my print-out – from around 8:00 GMT – has the wrong numbers. I already didn’t understand what sort of process and systems the Times could have that made such errors, but this makes it entirely incomprehensible to me.
  1. I printed at about 2 GMT and the letter counts are wrong as Richard describes.

    I did it between various household chores so I have no idea of time, but thought it was quite tricky in places; it has some nice wordplay and unusual answers. The NE corner held me up for a while.

    Bouquet for the setter, brickbats for the editor.

    1. Brickbats for someone, certainly. But not the crossword editor who seems to have no control over the material after producing the paper version. And not the people made to retype clues every day to make the online version. [Continues yesterday’s “it’s just a file conversion” rant….]
  2. I printed mine at 9:02 and the word lengths are fine – a real conundrum.

    I found this quite an easy one again – about 20 minutes to solve. Richard has mentioned the use of “water” at 8D, which I also query. And why “cattle” at 15D – what are beetroot and sugar beet for example? No real ripsnorting clues unfortunately (rip=dissolute fellow will cause some head scratching, me thinks)

    All the economists should read Anatole Kaletsky today. At school I was taught that every year the exam papers in economics asked exactly the same questions but unfortunately each year the answers were different.

  3. 43 minutes with 2, 4 and 16 putting up some resistance at the end.

    I didn’t think my geography was too bad but I’ve never heard of OVIEDO or ALBI so maybe I don’t know the full extent of my ignorance of the subject. I also didn’t know RHUMBA with an H.

    I have some sympathy with your comment on 8. I looked twice at Top player = PRO at 24. I’m sure there must be many a professional sportsman that could not be described as a top player by any stretch of the imagination.

    Mostly a very good puzzle, and certainly an enjoyable solve with 5 as my COD.

    I agree the misplaced numbers are baffling. Normally I would print around 5:00 but I went on-line early this morning to check the weather outlook as we have snow worse than Monday’s today.

    I wonder how the numbers can be wrong at around 2:00 GMT, correct at around 3:00 and wrong again at 8:00. I just checked on line and it’s fine at the moment (10:30). Is anyone still seeing it wrong now?

    1. Who could forget that classic album “Rhumba with Cugat”? Although Xavier (or his discographer) seems to be inconsistent in his spelling of that dance. Ole! Ole!
  4. I have the documentary evidence. Two versions printed not 5 minutes apart done circa 2:50 GMT; one a complete stuff up from 9Ac down. I congratulate Richard in going for the extra degree of difficulty. I chose the simple running header. About the same as yesterday. Had to check BARATHEA was a word, OVIEDO was a place and CAPERs could be prickly (the plants that is, I already knew about the moonlight escapades. As for RIP…
  5. Enumeration fine for me, printed at 07:38 this morning. 12:59 in the end, but was looking like a sub 10-minuter for a while before I got held up in the SE corner.
  6. 10:05 here. I enjoyed the more novel answers.

    On 8D, “travel by water” gets 28,000 Google hits compared to about 70,000 each for “travel by rail” and “travel by sea”. So not quite as solid but good enough I think, especially in the absence of a “sea rail”. Same view for the pro sportsman, and the cattle feed (COED mentions food for livestock as one of three main uses for ‘beet’). BONE ASH and ESCARP were new words for me.

    I printed the puzzle at 07:46 and got correct letter-counts (despite dud ones yesterday), so the mystery continues.

  7. Firstly, the letter counts: Living abroad, I’m 7 hours ahead of the UK. I printed the puzzle at 10.14am local time, i.e. 3.14am UK time, and the letter counts are accurate. What a mystery.

    I was slow to solve 6d, the second part of 8, 12 and 25, and uncertainties about the unfamiliar answers to 13a and 16 took my solving time to 37 minutes, longer than it should have been, given the mostly straightforward clues. I liked the clues to 1a, 6d, 10 and 17 particularly.

  8. As usual, about four or five left at 30 minutes. The main problem for me was the NE corner. I couldn’t get beyond Beau or Beau Brummel; and WATER RAIL was new to me. I should have got RHUMBA a lot quicker because I could see the form of the wordplay.

    Just before I strated the crossword my brother phoned to say he was going to PATAGONIA so that was an easy one.

    I enjoyed 11a, 21a, 5d and 12d.

  9. UGH! I printed this out at about 12:15 GMT (7:15pm my time) and was floored at the mistakes. I tried to do it with the wrong grid lengths (which I managed to do yesterday) and gave up and tossed it out.

    Came back this morning to see the problem had been fixed (I hope this isn’t a regular occurrence and is cleared up by, say, oh, next Thursday). I might have finished the first time if I had made out the anagram at 11 and known the number of words in 21.

    I liked 29 down.

  10. With recourse to the completer for 2 & 20.

    2 is a classic example of the unusual compound word, one of the most effective tools in the setter’s armoury – a discovered check or somesuch.

  11. 12.43. I got the right numbers at 1.00pm GMT for what it’s worth.Had to get the s and p before I could get ESCARP and I didn’t know about the Stock Exchange Big Bang.Last to go in was 6 which I thought was a good one. I suppose keen=lamentation would have held a few people up
  12. I enjoyed this one more than most, by the look of it. Finished in about 19 mins, quite a lot of which was wondering whether Oviedo was a place (I knew Albi from the Crusade). I ticked quite a few clues, but 18A clinches COD for its plausible surface and the use of ‘bung’.

    Tom B.

  13. The numbers were wrong when printed just after midnight GMT (1 pm NZ). I found it very distracting. In fact it was a very good puzzle which deserved better. Didn’t get a time (hours) because I could not complete the SE 22 Dn 25 Ac until much later. COD: 16, no 13, no 16 …
  14. Mine printed out fine numerically, about 9PM NY time last night, 5 hours behind GMT, so 2AM where you are, I believe.
    About 40 minutes to solve, but afterwards I consulted google to confirm the existence of Beau Nash and BARATHEA. I had never heard of barathea. Mr. Nash’s wiki page actually terms him a ‘celebrated dandy’, one helluva legacy there. I didn’t know ‘Albi’, ‘bung’ or the Big Bang either, but the wordplay made those straightforward. I thought much of this was very good indeed, esp. BELOW, elegant surface, and LITTER. Best to everyone.
    1. I printed it out just after midnight and got the screwed up version. I started it, did a few, but then unaccountably decided that the answer to 3dn was dormitory, which gave me a 9 letter answer to fit in a 7 letter space with an enumerator of 8.. so I gave up & went to sleep. This morning, everything was fine. I can’t wait for midnight tonight 🙂
  15. Can someone please tell me what was the clue 27A in puzzle 24141 – dated 5th Feb 2009?

    Many Thanks

    (kevincollins@bulldoghome.com)

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