Times 24088 – ooerr – a puzzle from the backdoor!

Author   glhPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Solving time : 17 minutes, with a few brief distractions. Though I didn’t think I was going to do this at all tonight, I was greeted with the little yellow birdy picture. I managed to print the puzzle using the back-door method (check the “crossword club” tag). Christmas themes and a touch of the naughty crept into this puzzle. I imagine Kenneth Williams would have loved this one.

Across
1 DEBATE: BAT in DEE(the river)
4 CHAIRMAN: I in CHARM,AN – should have gotten this quickly, but it was one of my last in
11 OASIS: The risible pop band and a spot in the desert the should be airlifted to
12 CRACKER: Double definition and ooo err #1
14 ARENA: N in AREA
15 CLEAVAGE: ooo err #2
18 L,ILL,I,PUT: The land of the little people in Gulliver’s Travels (easier to fit in a crossword than Brobdingnang, and making its second appearance of the week for me)
20 CRAWL: hidden reversed in CiviL WAR Confederates
23 TA(=AT<=),F,FETA: a fine fabric
25 NEITHER: I in NETHER
26 PANTS: double definition and oo err #3
27 OVULATION: U,L in OVATION(often stood for) and a sneaky cryptic definition
28 REAR,REST: I liked this charade
29 SEXTET: EX in STET(leave as original)
 
Down
1 DEMOCRAT: Wrote this in before seeing the full wordplay – COME reversed in DRAT, nifty
2 BARRAGE: RAG in BARE
3 TRUNK CALL: In wikipedia under trunking, it is apparently not the American version of a booty call
6 (w)IN-O,FF: a banked shot in pool
7 MUSTANG: (GNAT,SUM)<= nice charade here
8 NO-SIDE: (IS)<= in NODE
16 VACCINATE: C,IN in VACATE
17 CLARINET: IN in CLARET(=blood)
24 (t)EASER: and that’s the end of the teaser for me

38 comments on “Times 24088 – ooerr – a puzzle from the backdoor!”

  1. I also did the puzzle tonight, George, not as quickly as you. About 35 minutes, a fairly relaxing and fun solve. My only problems were needing to guess from wordplay at 6D and 8D, pool and rugby references which aren’t familiar to me. I’ll nominate 15A CLEAVAGE as the most outrageous clue for today, which seems to take the cake. My COD is the more tame TAFFETA, which the setter may have included in an attempt at modesty, in that it can possibly be used to cover the 15A. Regards.
    1. nice job getting NO-SIDE from wordplay, it wasn’t clued as generously as IN-OFF. I agree, it was a fun puzzle, and raised a number of smiles
  2. I expect I will be in a minority in finding this no easier than yesterday’s (which I really enjoyed, by the way) although it may have something to do with a splitting headache. About 45 mins again today.

    Not sure what a “banked shot” is in pool, but I thought the reference was probably to biiliards, where “in-off” is the name of a scoring shot made by taking the cue-ball off another ball and into a pocket.

    I had CLEAVAGE pencilled lightly early on but couldn’t really explain it – I suppose it’s a double def in the sense of a “great rift” or (in the Carry On sense) a “valley”. The image is attractive but the clue doesn’t really work for me.

    I thought 9dn was a good anagram.

    I’m sure it’s obvious but what is the relevance of “plane” in 3dn?

    1. Going in reverse… “plane” is a tree, so the elephant or the tree could be making the trunk call.

      With you on CLEAVAGE, I think it’s just a double def/cryptic def.

      Doesn’t billiards have no pockets? I think they use the term bank shot in snooker as well, but in pool in the US and Canada when you have to nominate your shots for them to count, you have to call “in-off” shots.

      1. Thanks George – I thought of plane>tree but didn’t go the next step to tree>trunk!

        Billiards – not sure. I suspect there are plenty of varieties of billiards and similar games, but I am sure that “in-off” is a billiards shot. I’ll look it up when I get some time.

        1. In-off is indeed a billiards term, Kurihan, and is worth 3 points for in-off the red and 2 for in-off the opponents cue ball. It is also used in snooker but refers to the white being pocketed accidentally (not a good thing)
  3. 14:23 .. I didn’t feel at all in tune with this setter and I’m afraid this puzzle brought out the reactionary in me. If anyone’s listening to Oasis 20 years from now, maybe they’ll deserve a mention in the Times puzzle. As it is, I don’t feel they really belong. And the two ‘saucy’ double meanings – CRACKER and PANTS – were just way too easy if you knew the slang. I like saucy, but it’s got to be witty in the way it’s deployed. The CLEAVAGE clue didn’t really work for me, either. So I’m giving this one a thumbs down.

    On the plus side, a good corny joke in 3d and a couple of very neat clues, especially 1d and 17d.

    ‘in-off’ is definitely from billiards. Had to get the rugby reference from wordplay.

    Q-2 [Oasis reference counts double], E-3, D-5 .. COD 17d CLARINET for the clever ‘screening’.

  4. About 30 min, much of it stuck in the SW. Having put “rearmost” in 28 Ac (behind the others) I was at a considerable disadvantage. “Easer” I had considered for 24 Dn but dismissed as too laboured. 26 Ac had to be “pants”, but I still don’t see a double definition. What am I missing?
    1. I believe “pants” in modern slang means “no good”, “useless” as in the hypothetically-possible but never-actually-uttered sentence “The All Blacks were pants today.”
      1. Thanks for that. Further digging around confirms UK slang. Never heard it used myself. The All Blacks certainly were pants in one memorable game last year!
  5. 34 minutes with a little help on-line to polish off 1A and 2D when I ran out of time on my commute. I agree with those who compared this with yesterday’s for difficulty but found it far less satisfying. I hate grids that have no words with fewer than 5-letters and puzzles that have so many one-word answers (all the Across clues today and all but four Downs), and the combination of the two made me very wary as I often rely on expressions and shorter words to get myself started.
  6. The term ‘in-off’ is most commonly, and very very widely, used today in snooker. An ‘in-off’ is a pot in which the (white) cue ball accidently goes into the pocket having first hit the object ball. It’s used hundreds of times in commentary from the world snooker championships held here in Sheffield.
  7. I found this much easier than yesterday – about 25 minutes to solve. It would have been faster if I hadn’t for some strange reason put “your” instead of “ones” in the very easy 5D. Never heard of Oasis, which is fortunate judging by the reviews already given.

    The whole thing has a juvenile giggle behind the bike sheds flavour and lacks the humour that is needed to carry this sort of thing off.

    1. The Manc Lads have been prominent enough over the last 10 years or so to warrant inclusion – probably. They’re not to everyone’s taste (Liam Gallagher is a bit of a git) but having watched one of their live gigs on TV the other night… Well, credit to them, they do put on a show and they play REAL instruments. I’d rather see them live than flippin’ Girls Aloud, Boyzone and similar nonentities.
      And don’t get me started on rap.
  8. I’m surprised snooker/billiards references don’t crop up more frequently. The latter especially has been a quintessentially gentlemanly game since colonial times, as what-ho-Jeeves British as old queen Vicky herself. Some years ago I spent a month touring Sri Lanka. At Nuwara Eliya there’s a hotel – The Hill Club – built during the early days of empire, and it still has its original billiards room and table. I digress.

    A better performance than yesterday, coming in at 14 minutes which from comments above seems OK. The main trouble spot was the NE corner, 4A taking longest to fall (not overly keen on “individual”=I but feel sure it’s been used before without complaint).

    The “naughty” bits didn’t seem particularly naughty; certainly not troublesome, and my ticks went to 20 CRAWL (excellent hidden reversal), 2 BARRAGE (first class use of container indicator) and 17 CLARINET for the same reason. I think 20 just shades it.

    Q-0 E-7 D-7 COD 20 CRAWL

    1. I guess if you want to see naughtiness, there are also part answers REAR, SEX, TONGUE, and a possible sounds-like for “phalous”. How much of this is intentional is anybody’s guess.
    2. so if we start to come across “losing hazard” and “pyramid spot” in puzzles we’ll know who to thank…
  9. I agree with Anax. When did cracker, cleavage and pants get to be naughty words? How prudish can one get?
    Barbara
  10. This was my kind of crossword and I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of solving it (about 12 in all). I found it much easier than yesterday’s (not a bad thing) and was delighted at last to see a more modern cultural reference with “Oasis”. I agree with Anax that they’ve done enough over the last 10-15 years to warrant inclusion. In no way in this world are cracker, cleavage and pants naughty words!
    Although I don’t usually take much notice of these things, all the surface readings are excellent today.

    28a made me smile the most so gets my COD nom.
    Good work, setter.

  11. Maybe an hour, with interruptions, so above averagely difficult for me. The SW corner caused the most problems, especially 28ac (I had BACKMOST pencilled in for too long) / 22d / 19d, and for a while I thought I wasn’t going to complete this, but got there at the last gasp (unlike yesterday!)
  12. What a relief to be able to make a good shot at this after yesterday’s debacle. ( yesterday’s was pants). Had to resort to cheating for 9D though. Is this very frowned on?
    1. As an American setter (or rather “constructor”) once said: “It’s your puzzle” – meaning that whether you use dictionaries, Google or phone a friend is up to you. “Cheating” is only frowned on if you pretend you didn’t. The real trick in this one was probably seeing that ‘so calm, euphoric’ was the anagram fodder. That sneaky “and” in the middle is a trick to watch out for.

      Edited at 2008-12-04 01:50 pm (UTC)

  13. 23:30 for this, having another poor NE corner where 4, 7, 8, 11 and 15 took too long. Worse, I’d put TRUNK MAIL at 3D. I’m sure I’ve messed up TRUNK CALL as an answer before, so must remember it for next time.
    With Anax on Oasis – a UK citizen not knowing of them sounds like one from Private Eye’s Mr Justice Cocklecarrot. I’m no great fan of pop music, but rather this than harking back to ancient stuff by Maurice Chevalier and the like!

    Edited at 2008-12-04 01:57 pm (UTC)

    1. I’m sure you are right, Peter, but, for the record, the existence of a pop band called Oasis is only the vaguest piece of knowledge as far as I am concerned and I’ve never knowingly heard any of their music. But I’ve no problem with the clue provided it doesn’t set a precedent for such references to become commonplace.
  14. 12.54. Although not so very much faster than my time for yesterday the puzzle somehow seemed much easier; I caused myself problems by initially putting HOLD ONE’S HORSES (well, there was a bridle involved) and made heavy weather of the long anagram at 9d.

    I really can’t understand the objection to Oasis, which for me came as a welcome and all too rare reference to anything vaguely contemporary. As for the risqué references, it’s pretty typical that they failed to register with me at all.

  15. Interestingly mixed comments.

    I found this easy apart from the top right, where I struggled to get a foothold. About 20 minutes all told (at least half in that corner).

    I take it that the rule about living people only applies to individuals?

    I had CLEAVAGE as:
    Possibly great = (if you like that sort of thing!)
    and
    RIFT=CLEAVAGE
    VALLEY=CLEAVAGE
    so a double def plus a cryptic def with a slightly titillating … excuse me, I mean provocative … surface.

    1. On second thoughts: a cleavage can be anything from ‘very great’ to ‘insignificant’. So ‘Possibly great’ fits that too…
  16. I thought this was going to be easier than usual until I got stuck in the SE corner. Like someone above, I went astray also by pencilling in HOLD ONE’S HORSES.
    36 mins in the end. As someone else has remarked above also, there were some very good surface readings.
    COD 17 dn. I think those of a certain age would have found IN-OFF, a billiards scoring shot, easy enough. Hard to believe now but billiards was once much more popular than snooker. The latter’s day came, IMHO, with colour TV in the 1970s when you could distinguish the colour of the balls. But that’s a digression.
  17. I found this much simpler than yesterday which almost ranks with the week before’s as the hardest of the year (so far). some lovely clues today…Agree that democrat was good and i also liked Ovulation and Clarinet. Congrats to the setter. seemed fair …around 35 minutes…quite pleasing!

  18. What makes these puzzles more challenging for colonials is the use of local expressions although I guessed ‘cracker’ from the ‘pulled at Christmas’ part of the clue and had to look up the river Dee…which, on second thought, seemed familiar. For all the years I’ve been doing these I don’t believe i’ve seen ‘runner’
    as “river’ as in flower. Now I know.
    ‘Cleavage’ escaped me even though I had most of the letters. Perhaps it would have been more Ximenean if the setter had somehow made reference to Dolly Parton. More universal than Oasis at any rate.

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