Times 23,547 – lecher, trollop, Madonna (of old) to compensate

Very good surface readings in the admirably brief clues in this puzzle. I thought it was an excellent puzzle overall.

Solving time: 19 mins (fast for the Times for me).

* = anagram
1 C(IT)ADE Lenin A kremlin is a general name for a citadel in Russia, not just the one in Moscow. Jack Cade’s rebellion (1450).
5 UP TIGHT My favourite clue in the puzzle. Top drawer.
10 SKI(t) Nice use of different meanings of “take off”
11 A MID (dim reversed) ST Definition is “in”. Last I solved.
12 M(AVER)ICK Another excellent misleading context, with the whole clue convincingly suggesting politics.
17 FORCED LANDING Two meanings of “grounding” used very well.
21 STUNT MAN A double for a film actor.
23 P(ELL)ET An ell is 45 inches, “not quite” 4 feet.
27 E LE(G)ANT “Staying” is used as a containing indicator, I think.

2 TUR(F)ING Alan Turing (1912-1954) Computer pioneer. f = following
3 DAM A SCENE “of” Damascus.
4 (c)LINK
5 UP TO A POINT This refers to (1) intellectuals known derogatively as pointy-heads and (2) Lord Copper the newspaper proprietor in Evelyn Waugh’s Scoop whose obsequious editor, when he meant “No” always said “Up to a point”.
16 OFF STAGE Both sides of the cricket field used here i.e. on(leg) and off. House refers to theatre.
18 ROU(LAD)E A florid “passage” of music.
19 GAL LOON Nice to discover a new word from friendly wordplay as I did here.
22 TULS A (Slut reversed)
24 EDOM (do me)* From the Old Testament. Guessed it right from the two alternatives, verifying after.

13 comments on “Times 23,547 – lecher, trollop, Madonna (of old) to compensate”

  1. 9:25 here – took a while to work out 21, 6, 22, 19 at the end. GALLOON and the musical meaning of roulade were new to me – I think you have to be a solo singer to worry about roulades.
    1. I think a choral singer could well worry about a roulade but would be more likely to call it a melisma nowadays.
  2. For no reason I can now understand, it took me two full minutes at the end to get the answer to 6D (TORT+E), giving me a time of 10:55 overall.
    1. I must have spent at least two minutes at the end on 21A (Stop chap growing double = STUNTMAN), and finished in roughly the same time (10:58). I feel the clue to STUNTMAN might be a bit trickier, but then again no-one else has mentioned having any difficulty with it.
  3. With all the somewhat risque references recently are we sure they haven’t taken on Cyclops from Private Eye?
  4. I confess I got 19 wrong, convinced as I was that it was anagram of GIRL ONE (which, interestingly, gives GONERIL and LEG-IRON), so, without any conviction, but having nothing to refer to, I entered GELROIN. Thanks, Niall, for the explanation of 5D, which I didn’t understand at all.
  5. I would say we only have one side of the cricket field used here. ‘Side of cricket field’=OFF and leg=STAGE, nothing to do with the on side.
    I’ve read Scoop, so 5D went in very easily – never come across pointy-heads, though – so thanks for that.
    1. leg = stage absolutely but it’s also another side of the cricket field! And that’s why it was used here, I guess, in misleading context.
  6. It wasn’t Lord Copper himself who said “Up to a point”. Kingsley Amis (The King’s English): ‘I have said “Up to a point” in conversation before now and set a dunce or two mechanically intoning “Lord Copper” as if to complete a mantra … In fact, “Up to a point, Lord Copper” was said by an underling to the great newspaper proprietor in order to register the strongest disagreement thought to be safe.’
    1. I often look at the clues with several words in the answer before anything else and it so happens that 5D was the first to catch my eye today. Although I had no across letters I immediately thought of UP TO A POINT but couldn’t explain why it should be correct. Having read the explanations here I didn’t know either of the references, so I assume it was just something about the surface reading that somehow suggested the solution. Actually I have always associated intellectuals with egg-shaped heads which suggests to me round rather than pointy. I suppose I must be a big ender at heart, and not a little ender.
    2. It was the editor who replied to Lord Copper “Up to a point” if the proprietor had asked a question which the editor knew was wrong e.g. “Is Yokohama the capital of Japan?”. Rather than say no, he said “Up to a point”. Confirming what Wil_ransome says, but there was no suggestion that Lord Copper himself had said it as the posting might suggest.
  7. Hi my name is Charles I live in the states. I will try to tell my story quick. I have been doing American cw’s for about 15 years and I have grown bored with them. I stumbled across the cyrptics in the New York Post which republishes the times cw. At first I was baffled. Took a bunch of research and reading but I now understand how the puzzle works. I am now fascinated .I am at a point where I can get up to a maximum of ten clues (mostly I get 2-5. My problems are twofold. First I don’t get many of the British references (i.e. cricket) and second I find that these seem on a very difficult level (correct me if I am wrong but I would think that the times cryptic is an advanced one). Sooo… I was wondering if anyone has any tips or tricks learned from experience to help solve cryptics or of a place where I can get either more “American” cryptics or easier British ones. Thank you for reading my ramble and I hope for some responses. Thank You.


    P.S If you would like to respond via email my address is RCOTC@YAHOO.COM

  8. Personally I like the Cricket references. The leg = “stage” and NOT “on” in 16a OFF STAGE is a cracker.

    There are 10 “easies” including another cricket reference. Unfortunately I might be a bit late to explain this one to amacryp (see above) who was a couple of weeks but not nearly 10 years late posting a comment.

    9a Church wants to dismiss priest, becoming one short (4,7)
    YORK MIN (I) STER. If you “York” a batsman to dismiss them you pitch the ball on the crease, under the bat, and take out one or more stumps. Neither on the “off” nor “on” (leg) side of the wicket.

    14a (Enough grease’s) churned out that will affect the climate (10,3)

    25a Listen to help a woman (3)
    ADA. SL “aid a”.

    1d Fearsome creature about – (many)* scattered (6)

    6d Wrong end of the cake (5)
    TORT E

    7d Try to chuck young bird …(7)

    8d … try to keep countryman very stupid (8)
    T HICK EST. Two alternative versions of try = GO and try = TEST linked by … .

    13d Troublesome (Pet’s Annual)* needs editing (10)

    15d Farmhand keeps drink in crock (9)

    20d Grounds to show (data is)* in error (6)

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