Sunday Times Cryptic No 5121 by Dean Mayer — allow me to elaborate…

This wasn’t a piece of cake, nor all very 6, but it was clearly fresh.

I indicate (Ars Magna)* like this, and words flagging such rearrangements are italicized in the clues.

ACROSS
 1 Tripe, product still made (9)
MOONSHINE    DD   The second definition qualifies as cryptic, playing on “still”   …I—a native of West Virginia—have drunk MOONSHINE at least once (one of the two alcoholic blackouts in my life… the other was in Paris many years later) but had two great-uncles in Pennsylvania who made the stuff.
 6 Second matching number (5)
SEVEN    S(econd) + EVEN, “matching” (as scores)
 9 Fleet Street gathering with a condition (5)
SWIFT    S(W)(IF)T
10 Proper nozzles to water flowers (9)
PRIMROSES    PRIM, “Proper” + ROSES, “nozzles to water”: “perforated cap[s] fitted to the spout of a watering can or the end of a hose, causing the water to issue in a spray” (Collins)   …News to me!
11 Funny little Russian, a disarming type (14)
UNILATERALISTS    (little Russian, a)*   One can be a UNILATERALIST regarding any issue, but the term refers especially to a position on nuclear disarmament.
13 Deputy leader in a state abroad? (8)
TANAISTE    (in a state)*   “the vice-Taoiseach or deputy prime minister of the Republic of Ireland”   …NHO
14 God, New York is complex (6)
THORNY    THOR, “God” + N(ew) Y(ork)
16 Elaborate spread (6)
EXPAND    DD
18 Serving, at table, foul dessert (2,6)
IN OFFICE    IN[-]OFF, “at table, foul” + ICE, “dessert”   …Edited! I didn’t get the snooker reference, pointed out below. Purely for comic relief, my original note follows: Collins online has only an entry for “at table” from an American dictionary, whereas the American resource Merriam-Webster lists it as “British  | sitting at a table and eating a meal.” IN often means “at home,” which might be where one is most commonly “at table”—but, then again, might not.   …I couldn’t find a source that ties the two ideas any closer together, though I fully expected to (and to not have to gloss this at such length).
21 Epic moves to halt murderer (2,5,7)
LE MORTE D’ARTHUR    (to halt murderer)*   …That Anglo-Norman French spelling always throws me!
23 All died apart from revolutionary in military uniform (5,4)
OLIVE DRAB    O LIVED, “All died” + BAR<=“revolutionary”
24 Monk and rabbi both undressed (5)
ABBOT    rABBi + bOTh
25 Close, as a vessel? (5)
MUGGY    With a goofy cryptic hint
26 Corrector” renamed to “corrected” (9)
EMENDATOR    (renamed to)*
DOWN
 1 Flies lawman across capital (10)
MOSQUITOES    MOS(QUITO)ES
 2 View over wing (7)
OPINION    O(ver) + PINION, “wing”
 3 TV show abridged in serie{s it com}prised (9,6)
SITUATION COMEDY    Hidden word, but you have to spell it out!
 4 Government loans in time to stop strike (8)
IMPRESTS    IMPRES(T)S
 5 Prophet, priest, god (6)
ELIJAH    ELI, our ubiquitous “priest” + JAH, “god” to Rastas
 6 A piece of cake, clearly fresh (15)
STRAIGHTFORWARD    STRAIGHT, “clearly” + FORWARD, “fresh”
 7 That thing in a mask is an alien (7)
VISITOR    VIS(IT)OR
 8 Boy raised on hotel food (4)
NOSH    SON<=“raised” + H(otel)
12 Mark Twain was one creator of characters (10)
TYPEWRITER    TYPE, “Mark” + WRITER, “Twain”   Dictionary.com has as a “rare” definition of TYPE in British English “a distinctive sign or mark” (as does Collins), but in American English it’s the eleventh definition and apparently not so rare. Collins defines “mark” (often capital and in trade names) as “model, brand, or type.”   A remarkably apt clue, as Mark Twain (Samuel L. Clemens) is said to have been the first novelist to have availed himself of the newfangled device. “He owned an 1874 Sholes & Glidden,” according to an article at type-writer.org (the Remington company claims it was a Remington 2), and, though he eventually stopped using it, “in his later years, he would boast that he had submitted The Adventures of Tom Sawyer to his publisher as a typewritten manuscript, though he himself did not type it. His secretary, Isabel V. Lyon, prepared the manuscript, though not Tom Sawyer, but rather Life on the Mississippi.”
When asked about that by a New York “shorthand reporter” some years later, Clemens wrote back (in longhand) that he “only employed the stenographer to take rough notes—nothing more. I should not think of dictating a book, or an article for publication. I am not able to believe that a readable book could be built in any such way. I have had a great deal of experience in dictating to a stenographer—when I am at home I write my letters in that way—and in my opinion it is a thing that has but a single virtue—speed. It is quick, but the literary result is miraculously awkward, stilted, feeble, and infelicitous.” I think it might make a difference if the author’s own hands were on the keyboard (but also if correction were as easy as it is now in the digital age).
15 The Spanish president I turned off? (8)
INEDIBLE    EL + BIDEN + I <=“turned”
17 Christmas no-no? Leak by Wenceslas? (7)
PEEKING    PEE, “Leak” + KING, of which Wenceslas is an example
19 People, being hot, just now dressing (7)
INHABIT    IN, “hot, just now” + HABIT, “dressing”   Edit: I am now informed that my first parsing, IN (H) A BIT, was the intended one, with the phrase draped over H meaning “just now”—which it doesn’t in any of our standard sources.   …I changed that about an hour before the blog went live, before rushing off to a friend’s birthday gathering. I’ve never heard of the dictionary that editor Biddlecombe mentions, and have never heard IN A BIT used in that way.  Indeed, it seems a loss to the language if IN A BIT and “just now” are no longer to mean different things.
20 Look around very fast (6)
STARVE    STAR(V)E
22 Fly over low zone (4)
ZOOM    MOO, “low” + Z(one) <=“over”

 

44 comments on “Sunday Times Cryptic No 5121 by Dean Mayer — allow me to elaborate…”

  1. I enjoyed this one, but solved it more sporadically than usual. Fave clue was probably for Inedible.
    I wondered if Unilateralists was an error in the definition, which doesn’t seem to lead to a plural, but perhaps there’s a context that I can’t see.
    Slight typo in the blog at 17d? Thanks to DM and Guy.

  2. I parsed 19d as ‘in a bit’ (just now) around (dressing) ‘h’ (hot). Your thoughts?

    1. I thought that’s what it was too, at first, but “just now” does not define IN A BIT, which refers to a time slightly in the future.

    2. That’s how I parsed it, too, though I wasn’t sure about the equivalence of in a bit/just now [on edit: as Guy pointed out while I was writing this].

    3. I queried “just now”, but Dean assured me that in present-day informal English, it can mean “very soon”. It’s recorded in an online thesaurus called “word hippo”. I decided to allow it, and i don’t think it would first phrase to make that move – “without delay” should really mean “already done”.

      1. Not sure I understand this, even with the hypothesized interpolated words: « i don’t think it would [be the?] first phrase to make that move – “without delay” should really mean “already done”. »
        “Should really mean…”—to whom? No, it shouldn’t! Not on my watch! Ha

        1. How about “I’ll do it right now” or the apparently Welsh expression “I’ll do it now in a minute”?

          1. In practice, however, “just now” is more backward-looking than forward-looking.

            “Just now” usually signifies “very recently”, as in, “It happened just now”, “They came home just now”.

            “Just now” carries its literally-now meaning mainly when applied to a continuous action, as in, “They are coming home just now”.

            But I doubt “just now” is commonly used to mean “soon” or “in the near future”.

            We would not say “This will happen just now”, or “this will be happening just now”, except perhaps when describing a probable or predicted event — for example, a TV commentator saying, while the camera was pointing elsewhere, “Just now, the rest of the Royal Family will be arriving at the west door of the cathedral …”

            That said, I can well imagine a salesperson’s or server’s saying “just now” while meaning “in a bit” when trying to placate an impatient customer who wanted their order or their dish. But this would be a strategic rather than a literal usage, and perhaps John Searle had a word for it. And perhaps in such an instance, “just now” and “in a bit” would function almost as opposites. “It’s arriving just now” would be a wanted message, “It’s arriving in a bit” would be an unwanted message. Peter’s example, “I’ll do it right now” falls into this category. The person who said “I’ll do it in a bit” would be sending a quite different message.

              1. Lo and behold, so it is!
                A turn of phrase as counterintuitive as the current American slang sense of “minute” as “a long time”: “haven’t seen you for a minute!”

  3. I gave up on TANAISTE and submitted off leaderboard, but came back a day or two later, played with the alphabet and finally found it. NHO. DNK JAH. DNK ROSES. I had a ? at IN OFFICE. I biffed SITUATION COOMEDY & STRAIGHTFORWARD, parsed post-submission. I liked MOSQUITOES and SITCOM (never seen that kind of hidden before), but COD to PEEKING.

  4. Someone please explain why 11a definition does not need to be pluralised, i.e “disarming types”. Doing my head in.

    1. I had the same reaction, but one can say, e.g., ‘unilateralists are a type of disarmament advocates who …’; indeed, ‘unilateralists are types of disarmament advocates who …’ sounds quite odd.

      1. Maybe that’s right. Or maybe you’ve just moved the pluralisation to “advocates” in your example…

        1. Well, I could have said, ‘Unilateralists are a type of disarmament advocate who …’ (cf. e.g. terriers are a breed of dog, carrots are a kind of root vegetable (NB not dogs, vegetables).

    2. Well, they’re all examples of a type, I guess. But this is why I at first had the French UNILATERALISTE, before I checked the anagrist.

      1. I made the same mistake with UNILATERALISTE. but didn’t check the anagrist! The ‘a’ put me off, although it was part of the anagrist!

    3. “Type” is defined as “category”. I think it makes sense for a category of people to be described by the plural form, as in gents toilet and artits’ entrance.

  5. 98m 53s. That was my longest solving time in years…..until yesterday’s cryptic came along. In Olympic terms, the medals would have been presented, the crowds returned home and the podium and stands dismantled before I would have crossed the line.
    The LH side was particularly difficult, I thought.
    My particular bugbear is and has been the use of apostrophes such as in 21ac.
    Like others, I’m sure, I started with TYPESETTER for 12d so0 thanks to Guy for his thoughts there.
    25ac MUGGY reminded me of Barry Cryer on ISIHAC. ‘Irony is like steely, only different’.
    13ac TANAISTE reminded me of an episode of the 90s sitcom, “Drop the Dead Donkey” where “Silly” Sally, the newsreader confuses Taoiseach with tea shop.
    Thanks, Guy.

    1. Martin, agreed, it was a beast, but I found yesterday’s much more satisfying in that I solved it in one sitting!

      1. I agree with you about yesterdays. I, too, solved it in one, albeit lengthy, sitting!

    2. re apostrophes, this is from Wiki:
      Le Morte d’Arthur (originally written as le morte Darthur; Anglo-Norman French for “The Death of Arthur”)

  6. I’ll go with Martin P1 on this one. I have no idea how long it took in the end, but I finished on Tuesday night at some point. My LOI, PEEKING, was ungettable, since I had carelessly put EXTEND for 16a and also had LA for the epic at 21a, which I should have remembered. NHO TANAISTE, which went in on a likely distribution of the available letters.
    COD MUGGY, as it made me laugh. A fail finally, though, because of the above-mentioned E on UNILATERALISTS.
    Guy, you have underlined ‘turned’ in 15d, whereas the definition is just ‘off’.

  7. I found bottom left hard going. Had to put the puzzle and complete that after a good nights sleep.

  8. 80 minutes and I used aids for the Irish DPM and IMPRESTS.

    I thought of TYPSETTER at 12 then looked up Mark Twain on Wiki which mentioned that he worked as one in early life, so I took the clue as a definition preceded by a cryptic hint. Unfortunately I had to rethink when SETTER prevented progress with other clues. I then wasn’t able to parse TYPEWRITER fully.

  9. Great puzzle as ever from Dean, but I can’t buy into ‘just now’ = ‘in a bit’. I’ve tried.
    Thanks, Guy.

  10. Noticing it was a pangram didn’t help. It never seems to. I was another typesetter who had to await Arthur’s death.
    How about ” I’ll do it just now “, meaning “after I’ve finished the crossword”
    Over 40 minutes, but glad to finish.

  11. 35:53. I found that very hard! I don’t have a problem with ‘type’ defining a plural, but I have never heard ‘just now’ referring to the future.
    In 18ac IN OFF is indicated by ‘at table, foul’. It’s a snooker reference.

    1. Yes now you mention it I noticed the In-Off foul too. It makes for a shorter explanation.

      1. Indeed it does! “In-off” is defined in Collins as “a shot that goes into a pocket after striking another ball,” and I know that’s a foul, as it is in pool. It’s certainly taken a minute for that to be pointed out here.

  12. DNF 13a Irish thingy added to Cheating Machine. Humph; anag of NHO obscurity.
    3d SitCom; never saw the abbreviated hidden, thanks Guy.
    4d POI Imprests; have held one, wasn’t aware it was so government-orientated.
    6d POI Jah is also an old Hebrew word equivalent to Jahweh. Cheating again.
    12d Typewriter. Whilst cheating I discovered that Mark Twain had been a typeSETter, which did not help me as it fitted for a while, only corrected by “le morte Darthur”. Sic; that is the Norman French apparantly (cheating again.)

  13. I’ve just looked back and I’d forgotten it took me so long. Just under 3 hours, 178 minutes to be exact. Wow! Obviously I was determined.
    I do remember my LOI being TYPEWRITER and then googling it and that was really interesting.

  14. This was hard. I put MOONSHINE straight in and my second one in was DAHL (LAD up around H) at 8D, also knowing in the back of my mind to check it wasn’t DHAL. That made the top right impossible. When I got PRIMROSES I realized that 8D must be MASH (SAM up on H). So I never got SEVEN since I had S-V-M and couldn’t think of anything that fitted (because there isn’t anything). Somehow, having changed 8D once it didn’t occur to me that there might be a third valid answer for the clue. Also gave up on the NHO TANAISTE.

  15. Glad to see I wasn’t the only one who took a long time on this! A return train to Leeds clocking in at 4hrs 40 mins and was still left with blanks for Imprests and the Irish politician.

  16. I did 80% yesterday and managed to finish today after 99 minutes with only a single mistake (I was quite sure what the meaning of 13ac would be, but I opted for the wrong anagram: TENAISTA. Oh, well, glad I got the rest). A superb puzzle, as Dean’s always are.

  17. Yes, superb indeed! As always, Dean’s definitions are SO well-hidden (“product still made, Fleet , Close, etc) and I surprised myself by “finishing” in one normal-length sitting, but with a couple of look-ups: IMPRESS and the epic, which didn’t come to mind and I didn’t see the anagram! But a much better-than-usual effort from me meant I went away happy.

  18. DNF Many thanks for an interesting challenge, and as ever great blog.
    I’d heard tanaiste pronounced (fan of No Such Thing as a Fish) but Irish spelling is beyond me. Should have twigged to straightforward but had given up by then, not realising the disarming type anagram ended in s.

  19. Thanks Dean and guy
    Took two sittings to get through this and a total of 107 minutes, more than double normal solve times – so found it pretty tough going. Was another one that had to recalibrate an early entry of TYPESETTER at 12d after finally getting LE MORTE D’ARTHUR. Didn’t properly parse INHABIT (although IN A BIT did fleetingly pass my mind – it is relatively commonly used here). A couple of new terms – EMENDATOR and that TANAISTE. PEEKING raised a grin.
    Finished with that INHABIT, IN OFFICE and that TANAISTE.

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