Sunday Times Cryptic 4861, July 28 2019, by Dean Mayer — “an ultimate dim Thule”

Author   Guy du SablePosted on Categories Weekend Cryptic
I wasn’t at the top of my game—the heat must have been getting to me—as I at first inked in SOUND POLLUTION for the rather obvious 9. Still, this was more of a stroll than a trek. The surfaces are smooth and mostly amusing; the CDs are mostly pretty clever; the trick at 4 is real neat. Though I somewhat regret that there was no marginally Mephisto-ish heretofore unknown term this time around, I did learn a little geography…

My title is from E.A. Poe’s “Dream-Land,” surely the first place I came across the last word, and the allusion is to the faraway northern… er, southern site in my LOI. (There is something dreamlike about cryptic clues, with their often outlandish—downright surreal—manifest content, which dissolves under analysis.)

I do (gasarmna)* like this, and italicize anagrinds in the clues.

ACROSS
 1 Settlement has hospital in remote area (8)
TOWNSHIP — T(OWNS H)IP, a “tip” being some place far outside town where Brits dump their garbage. EDIT: The editor had a different interpretation of that last part (see below). What do you think?
 5 Make mummy and me lamb stew? (6)
EMBALM — (me lamb)*
10 Against getting a new vehicle (3)
VAN — V(ersus, “Against”) + A + N(ew)
11 Talented people, completely game (3-8)
ALL-ROUNDERS — ALL, “completely” + “ROUNDERS,” a game, I take it
12 Troll is lonely one that carries one’s rocks (8,7)
RESEARCH STATION — Damn, I never read Tolkien…! DBE, (that carries one)* Not (to my relief) the first and last name of some character from fantasy literature, but a Norwegian site in Antartica, which (says Wikipedia) “took its name from the surrounding jagged mountains, which resemble trolls of Norse mythology.”
13 Top copy with illiterate’s signature (4)
APEX — APE, “copy” + X
14 Pay to pen column describing nipples? (9)
PAPILLARY — PA(PILLAR)Y. The quirk means, “Well, it might.” Cambridge (online) shies away from mentioning nipples, says a papilla is “a small, round raised structure at the base of hair or teeth or on the tongue”; but in Collins we find “any small nipplelike projection or process of connective tissue,” etc., as well as—tagged as “rare”—“the nipple of the breast.”
17 See building—around the back, stuff (9)
CATHEDRAL — CA, “around” + THE, “the”(!) + LARD<=, “stuff” moving “back”
18 Positions offered by big name at Apple (4)
JOBS — DD
21 One unpredictable character following VW (7,8)
UNKNOWN QUANTITY — X
23 This still gets used by race officials (5,6)
PHOTO FINISH — CD, “still” being a snapshot
24 One needs one tropical bird (3)
ANI — AN, “one” + I, “one”
25 Faith is embraced by enemy of US (6)
THEISM — Islamists? THE(IS)M
26 Fear fencing that is on river most cross (8)
ANGRIEST — ANG(R)(IE)ST

DOWN
 1 Tank overturned near bombed restaurant (7)
TAVERNA — VAT<= + (near)*
 2 Blown coils let out liquid (9)
WINDSWEPT — WINDS, “coils” + CD for WEPT, “let out liquid,” ha ha
 3 Quiet guy fed by a witch doctor (6)
SHAMAN — SH(A)MAN
 4 Where cop can be seen acting as guardian (2,4,8)
IN LOCO PARENTIS — IN LOCOPARENTIS. S/he’s trying to blend in…
 6 Counters count without calculator? (8)
MENTALLY — ”Counters” on a game board being MEN + TALLY, “count.” My POI.
 7 A Transcaucasian stargazer invites hugs (5)
AZERI — Hidden
 8 Madonna with Child in stonework (7)
MASONRY — MA(SON)RY (with “child in”—must be before the blessèd day!)
 9 Row of vehicles, factories etc (5,9)
NOISE POLLUTION — CD, at least slightly, playing on “row”
15 I’m on about creating division in moderate hate (9)
ABOMINATE — (I’m on)* cutting apart ABATE
16 Becoming awfully crude, so hiding nothing (8)
DECOROUS — (crude so + O, “nothing”)*
17 Tea cake politician put in sauce bottle? (7)
CRUMPET — CRU(MP)ET. The quirk must be meant to signal that sauce is only one thing a cruet might contain.
19 One’s job is to make do (7)
STYLIST — CD
20 An unpleasant job not quite enough for newsreader (6)
ANCHOR — AN + CHOR[-e]
22 1000 Rand and single European currency (5)
KRONE — K, “1000” + R, “Rand” + ONE, “single”

39 comments on “Sunday Times Cryptic 4861, July 28 2019, by Dean Mayer — “an ultimate dim Thule””

  1. My interpretation of “tip” in 1A was “the end of something long and narrow”.

    Rounders as a game – one of the ball and stick games that may be the origin of baseball, or at least share common roots with it.

    1. I guess “the end of something long and narrow” (but shouldn’t that be “narrowest end”? Or, if it’s equally narrow on each end, which one is intended?) could be a “remote area” if you were starting on the other end—and if the “something” were specifically something that would make “area” relevant (a peninsula?… but if you were sailing, the tip might be the part by which you would approach…)

      I never got around to looking up the game, but was sure someone would chime in.

      Edited at 2019-08-04 02:46 am (UTC)

  2. Evidently, I was almost done in 16′, except for 6d and something else, maybe 12ac. NHO Troll, and I biffed once I twigged to (that carries one’s). Also biffed 4d; I’m not sure I like the clue’s device. COD to THEISM.
  3. 22:32. I also got held up for ages because of putting in SOUND POLLUTION, which made the unknown RESEARCH STATION very difficult to get. Great bloggers think alike, obviously.
    TIP seems a bit loose to me but one of the first examples given in ODO is ‘the northern tip of Scotland’ which fits the bill, as anyone who’s been for a night out in Wick can tell you.
    2. What is the wording of the definition in the ODO, for which this is the example?
      1. “The pointed or rounded end or extremity of something slender or tapering”. But one of their examples is “the northern tip of Lake Chad”, and I struggle to see Lake Chad as matching that description. Likewise Goa in another one.

        https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/tip

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  5. One of the problems we have here is that we have our American cousins arriving first at the scene an English crossword, blogged by an American.

    No disrespect intended, Guy does a great job even in the heat. But it appears to be ‘America First’ today.

    ROUNDERS is the equivalent of ‘softball’, as everyone back in Blighty knows. Only Derby had a baseball ground.

    And I’m with Lord Keriothe on TIP. A journey to the ‘tip’ is usually only a couple of miles, for most townies.

    Further, NOISE POLLUTION is perhaps not used as often in America as it is in the UK. I think of POTUS trying to talk-over his whirling ‘chopper’ blades and hair, to the press in his garden (yard).

    12ac is an anagram!

    In a few hours time the English brigade will wake up and wonder what is occurring!? (On edit I see our jack already has!)

    Were The Times to publish their Crossword at 7am GMT, the confusion might be reduced somewhat.

    If horryd were to blog ‘The New York Times’ crossword mayhem would ensue. But it would make interesting copy!
    ‘I thought a greenback was a turtle!’ ‘I never realised (realized) Homer was a cartoon character!’ etc. etc.

    FOI 5ac EMBALM

    LOI 6dn MENTALLY which I had as MANUALLY initially.

    COD 12ac RESEARCH STATION

    WOD SHIBBOLETHS

    Oscar Wilde was right.

    Edited at 2019-08-04 05:45 am (UTC)

    1. …are you telling me 12ac is an anagram? I said that already.
      Anyone more curious than I managed to be about the precise nature of the game (as there obviously was one) called ROUNDERS can look it up in their Funk and Wagnalls!

      Edited at 2019-08-04 06:44 am (UTC)

      2. I missed your ‘gasarmna’! Olde Smilly! Sadly, it’s not in yet in the Gloss.
        It was only when I found your comment that the required meaning became clear to me.
        As Kev points out ‘Funk and Wagnalls’ is US-related.
          1. Peter, I too am happy that we have ‘Brother Jonathan’ on board and any others from across the globe. I miss Lord Galspray and other of the Australian regiment, who disappeared a couple of years back.

            My point is that the Times should not become US-centric and remain Anglo-eccentric and preserve our British Cultural culture.

            I have to ask – Peter are you related to Terry Biddlecombe?

            Edited at 2019-08-04 09:52 am (UTC)

    2. Out of curiosity: What is the problem, or one of the problems, ‘we have here’? Three members of ‘the English brigade’ did wake up and respond, and none of them evinced the slightest puzzlement about ‘what was occurring’ that could relate to UK/US differences. (If I were to blog the NYT, I wouldn’t do much better than horryd: sitcoms and actors and singers I’ve never heard of, …)
      1. I quote jacktt ‘Maybe it’s a UK thing, but NOISE POLLUTION is so much part of the jargon of conservation and the Green agenda and has been for so long that I never even thought about it when solving 9dn.’

        And I had tipped ’em awf! At least we agree on the NYT.

          1. I notice that Funk & Wagnalls is defunct (1996). (Wikipedia) It was mentioned frequently on ‘Rowan and Martin’.

            First time I’ve used it – on line –
            Shibboleth noun. A party test word: cp. Judges xii, 4- 6.

            4 Jephthah then called together the men of Gilead and fought against Ephraim. The Gileadites struck them down because the Ephraimites had said, “You Gileadites are renegades from Ephraim and Manasseh.” 5 The Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan leading to Ephraim, and whenever a survivor of Ephraim said, “Let me cross over,” the men of Gilead asked him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” If he replied,6 “No” they said, “All right, say ‘Shibboleth.’” If he said, “Sibboleth,” because he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand Ephraimites were killed at that time.

            1. horryd – that was a tag line in Rowan and Matin’s Laugh In. One of the best known, along with “Verrrry interesting”, “Good night, dick”, and “You can call me Ray, and you can…”
      2. Well, at least one of the English brigade responding early hadn’t yet gone to bed …

        I too cannot see a problem with having reports from the US or other, er, remote parts of the world. Ilan Caron, who was the first person to write regularly about Sunday Times crosswords here, filed his reports in Seattle. Of course people without a lifetime of British culture will miss some points, but I’m pleased that we have always had them here to show that the cultural side isn’t a complete barrier to enjoying them.

        FWIW, the clock barely matters these days — like most blogging services, LiveJournal now allows you to file a report with a date and time when it will appear.

  6. I think no-one has mentioned yet that it’s a pangram. Got through it eventually although I had no idea how ‘Troll’ came to define RESEARCH STATION until I consulted Google after the event. I evidently didn’t pay too much attenton at 1ac as I accepted TIP without querying it but having read the discussion above I’m a bit surprised at Peter’s interpretation when keriothe’s is surely the correct one.

    Re 24ac, I know the ST has its own policies anyway, but am I right in thinking that the weekday Times doesn’t allow A/AN for ‘one’ and vice versa?

    Maybe it’s a UK thing, but NOISE POLLUTION is so much part of the jargon of conservation and the Green agenda and has been for so long that I never even thought about it when solving 9dn.

    Edited at 2019-08-04 05:07 am (UTC)

    1. I never notice pangrams.
      I thought Keriothe was endorsing Biddlecombe’s definition, with the tip of Scotland being an example.
      NOISE POLLUTION is a very common term over here.

      Edited at 2019-08-04 06:41 am (UTC)

      1. Maybe I didn’t understand what PB was saying. It was only when I got to k’s comment that the required meaning became clear to me.
    2. The word from a fairly recent copy of the Times notes for setters is that “A” in a clue can’t indicate I in the answer, and “one” in a clue can’t indicate A in the answer, except in a phrase like “One cup” for “A TROPHY”. As you implied, the ST version doesn’t worry about this.
  7. ….were compounded by NOISE POLLUTION. The Chinese takeaway next door (Dynasty, but known to the cognoscenti as Dysentery) is undergoing a major refit. It’ll be “open kitchen” by next week. What it really needs is a new chef. The racket was compounded by a garden contractor using a leaf blower across the road.

    Never managed to parse RESEARCH STATION, and found both IN LOCO PARENTIS and STYLIST rather less than satisfactory. LOI took almost 4 minutes before the “duh” moment. Thanks Guy.

    FOI EMBALM
    LOI JOBS
    COD PHOTO FINISH
    TIME 20:51

  8. This was much too difficult for me despite having lots of time last Sunday whilst on holiday. After my first session, we visited Buckler’s Hard, a former ship building centre, where I was able to stuff oakum between the panels of a ship. What a caulker,as Henry Longhurst might have said.
    As to the puzzle, I got the Pollution but not the Noise. At 11a I had ALL AMERICAN, which I still think works quite well; the Masonry brought it down but I couldn’t think of anything better. DNK ANI. Failed to see JOBS and STYLIST (still wondering about the DO) and ABOMINATE.Also did not understand TROLL but saw the anagram.
    COD to EMBALM,appealed to my sense of humour. David

    Edited at 2019-08-04 06:55 am (UTC)

  9. …as a Scouser might say after a trip to the STYLIST. 28 minutes with LOI RESEARCH STATION. I’m with K onTOWNSHIP, understanding the TIP to be the far end of the country, as in Cape Wrath perhaps, or Land’s End if you’re Scottish. I’d given COD last week to NOISE POLLUTION but other comments have put me off, so I’ll make it UNKNOWN QUANTITY, winning in a PHOTO FINISH. I’ve no doubt solved ANI before, and won’t remember it next time either. Thank you Guy and Dean.
  10. I did this as an evening solve, which often involves the occasional slip into doze, and it took 25.30. As I remember, I was reluctant to enter RESEARCH STATION, despite the anagram rocking up, because I had no idea what the Troll was doing there, possibly thinking too much of the kind of commentator that we could do without.
    TIP didn’t cause any hesitation: I just thought of it as the far end of something, if I thought of anything at all.
    I liked the COP clue for its cheekiness: with only three letters of a 14 letter solution actually indicated it was leaving a lot to the imagination. Would we be impressed by “thoughtless side is here” for “inconsiderate”? Dunno: setters please feel free to experiment!
  11. I’m of the TIP of a piece of land persuasion for 1a. I’m also in the group that hadn’t heard of the RESEARCH STATION, but got the anagram anyway. Didn’t think of SOUND POLLUTION, so no distractions there. WINDSWEPT took a while. On the whole, a most enjoyable puzzle. 34:26. Thanks Dean and Guy.
  12. 46:16 nice puzzle. I didn’t think of tip in the right sense when solving 1ac so had a bit of a MER but the discussion above settles it ok. Worked out the anagram at 12ac with no idea what the Troll was. Biggest hold up for me was my inability to remember Steve Jobs. Well, that’s the fickle nature of fame for you. I liked the neatness of embalm and I enjoyed the pdm at 4dn too.
  13. Nice puzzle and I learned a couple of things – the Antarctic station and that LARD can mean stuff. LOI and I smiled when the penny dropped was MENTALLY. I liked EMBALM, THEISM and DECOROUS. 23:54. Thanks Dean and Guy.

    Edited at 2019-08-04 11:19 am (UTC)

  14. I liked the Unknown Quantity and the Cathedral. I was a dump on the edge of town for tip, but can see now why that that would be a second best answer if I’d had to do the parsing in public.
    1. Yes, that is correct—as I indicated in the blog.
      Why are you geniuses always anonymous?
  17. Thanks Dean and guy
    Haven’t been able to get the time to do the ST puzzle as often as usual lately … and they have been gathering up.
    This was a good challenge with some good wit, clever misdirection and a little new learning. Hadn’t noticed the pangram, had thought of both meanings of TIP (and really didn’t decide which was better, just that it fitted) and was still scratching my head with the device in 4d.
    Did like the ‘following VW’ trick at 21, when the penny dropped. Finished with the RESEARCH STATION, the clever MENTALLY and the Latin phrase at 4d.

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