Sunday Times 4796 by Jeff Pearce

Author   keriothePosted on Categories Weekend Cryptic
13:26. Nothing too taxing here, but for the second time in a row I have the blogger’s nightmare of being unable to explain something. In fact this week there are two clues I don’t understand so I’ve put in what seems to be the right answer based on what I can see. No doubt someone will be able to put me out of my misery in the comments before too long…

Definitions are underlined, anagrams indicated like (THIS)*, anagram indicators like this.

Across
1 Crazy tripper drops off to see beautician
MANICURIST – MANIC, toURIST.
6 Lively group of workers head off
WARM – sWARM.
9 Bishop is admired after wrestling important wedding guest
BRIDESMAID – B, (IS ADMIRED)*.
10 Nick is to feel unwell on January the first
JAIL – January, AIL.
12 One taking part in the French and German songs
LIEDER – ‘the French and German’ gives LE, DER. Insert I (one).
13 Love to leave instrument and join close neighbour in Brixton?
CELLMATE – CELLo, MATE. Reference to Brixton Prison.
15 Collect prisoner in front of judge carrying a little bit of money
CONCENTRATE – CON(CENT), RATE. The definition is a bit oblique but ODO gives the example ‘the nation’s wealth was concentrated in the hands of the governing elite’, which works for me.
18 The main players carry detonating devices around
PRIME MOVERS – PRIME(MOVE)RS.
21 Hung around 12 to change
LOITERED – (LIEDER, TO)*. Strictly speaking this is an indirect anagram, but the anagram fodder is at least there in the puzzle… once you’ve solved 12!
22 Seat outside American mansion
PALACE – P(A)LACE. Again, a slightly oblique definition for PLACE here. I guess ‘keep my seat/place’ would be interchangeable in some circumstances.
24 English butter served first in spread
PATE – PAT, E.
25 From such a low-down place boozers might get the sack
WINE CELLAR – CD.
26 Top lady entertaining a large peer
EARL – E(A)R, L.
27 Enter latrine and fit switch
INFILTRATE – (LATRINE, FIT)*.

Down
1 Body that’s left in locomotive
MOBILE – MOB, I(L)E. Again, ‘body’ for MOB seems a bit loose to me, but I think the required sense is a ‘body’ of people. Then IE (that’s) has L (left) in.
2 Last of gunmen was ill being arrested
NAILED – gunmeN, AILED.
3 Very smart couple take delight in college upbringing
CLEVER-CLEVER – not sure how this one works. The best I can do is that we have REVEL for ‘take delight in’, and then C for college, reversed. The word ‘couple’ is then somehow supposed to indicate that this is to be repeated. I don’t really see how it does though, and I’m also unhappy with ‘take delight in’ for REVEL. Surely this would need to be REVEL IN? So I’m not really happy with this explanation but like I say it’s the best I can do.
4 One with an inclination to swindle
RAMP – DD.
5 Cut out alcohol and with complaint? That’s beastly!
SWINE FEVER – again, not sure about this one. I can see SEVER containing WINE, but I can’t account for the F.
7 Repeatedly use a cloth over jelly
AGAR-AGAR – A, reversal of RAG, twice.
8 Being sick on ferry – just off Calais ?
MAL DE MER – CD. At least I think so. I thought I must be missing some clever wordplay but if it’s there I’m still missing it.
11 Head of Oxford keen to accept daughter to examine some books
OLD TESTAMENT – Oxford, L(D, TEST)AMENT. ‘Keen’ here is used in the weeping/wailing/lamenting sense.
14 One’s surrounded by an ocean!
INDONESIAN – IND(ONE’S)IAN. &Lit.
16 Tasty pastry is an order that’s just fine
APPLE PIE – reference to the phrase ‘APPLE PIE order’.
17 One found in a church
MINISTER – MIN(I)STER. &Lit.
19 Girl putting personal appearance first is a dish
PAELLA – PA, ELLA. I don’t remember seeing ‘personal appearance’ for PA before.
20 Does a third one mean tough questions?
DEGREE – reference to the expression ‘the third DEGREE’.
23 There’s still one monster
YETI – YET, I.

36 comments on “Sunday Times 4796 by Jeff Pearce”

  1. What if ‘couple’ was a verb? Instructing you to write (in reverse) a pair of REVEL (take delight in) + C’s? That still leaves one with the ‘in’, but.
    1. Hmm. That’s not really what ‘couple’ (as a verb) means though, is it?
      1. Well, there’s that, of course. I just came up with the idea as I was about to write my comment below.
  2. Rather unsatisfying, what with MOBILE (body=mob? Well, I think it’s Coriolanus who equates the Roman mob with the body, while the ones like him who run the state are the head, but), SWINE FEVER (LOI because of the F), CLEVER-CLEVER, as well as MAL DE MER. I just assumed PA in 19d, but I see now that it’s not in ODE. Still, they were all solvable, whereas I’m very doubtful about two of my desperate solutions to today’s.

    Edited at 2018-05-06 02:56 am (UTC)

    1. What about ; cut = SAW +WINE , out with Alcohol and With , FEVER?
      1. ‘Alcohol’ can either denote A (although it’s an abbreviation that doesn’t appear in the usual dictionaries) or WINE, but not both. And even if it could, you would have too many Ws.
    2. Today’s was hard! I think I have everything worked out but some of it is downright evil.
      1. That as a trailer and Wanderers about to get relegated. It’s going to be a bad day.
        On edit, not such a bad day. Bugger the crossword!

        Edited at 2018-05-06 01:38 pm (UTC)

  3. PA is OK according to ‘Acronym Finder’.
    For example, “Elton John gave a live PA.” Thus an event rather than a description.

    Took me 25 mins so was a bit easier than today’s.

    FOI 2dn NAILED
    LOI 17dn MINISTER
    COD 3d CLEVER-CLEVER (no problem with)
    WOD 8d MAL DE MER

    1. I would have assumed before that PA in that example was ‘Public Address’. Now I’m not sure!
  4. Same misgivings as the blogger and other commenters about some of the clues which put me in mind of the vintage puzzle that appeared on Wednesday a couple of weeks ago where one could see the answer but not exactly why so it seemed better for the sake of one’s sanity to just bung it in and move on. I appreciate though that the duty blogger doesn’t have this luxury!

    This morning I checked and can confirm that PA /Personal Appearance is in both Collins and Chambers, not that the blogger said it wasn’t valid, only that he hadn’t seen it before, and I’m not sure that I have either.

    Edited at 2018-05-06 05:07 am (UTC)

    1. Thanks, jackkt. I should have mentioned that I did check this in Collins, so my comment wasn’t intended as a criticism. Peter Biddlecombe has said in the past that he will generally allow an abbreviation if it is in Collins or ODO.
  5. No other explanations available from this source for the two mysteries. I wasn’t convinced by CLEVER-CLEVER and with SWINE FEVER I’ve scrawled on the torn-out solution ‘”where the f has the f come from” as an aide memoire for my post today. There were the two ‘ails’ as well, which jarred a bit. A decent puzzle otherwise though. Are YETIs monsters? They seem to be a retiring sort of person, good company if you can get to know them better. LOI WARM, as I was doubtful if the definition really fitted. COD WINE CELLAR. PATE and APPLE PIE in a wine cellar indeed. Life could be worse. 39 minutes. Thank you K and Jeff.
  6. 13:28. I had similar misgivings about a couple. I made SWINE FEVER from SEVER outside [out] WINE [and] F (with)… as in F for following. I liked the PAT of butter at 24a. Time for some toast, I think.
    1. F is in Collins as an abbreviation for ‘following (page)’, which doesn’t really work in this context.
  7. After struggling on Saturday this was more my cup of tea. Early on, for 5d, I had Shire Horse waiting in the wings (only because it fitted). Swine Fever occurred to me later on and I had the same difficulties as others with parsing. It took me a long time to get Prime Movers and that allowed my last two: 14d and then Minister.
    I also queried the PA in paella but overall this was a fun solve. COD to Clever Clever. David
  8. DNF in 30 mins. Got stuck in the top right hand corner. I thought of agar-agar but dismissed it. So good they named it twice? New York New York, it isn’t. Lots of double jeopardy here with Clever Clever and Ail x 2.

    I couldn’t parse Swine Fever either. Could S represent cut out? S = section? I don’t think so.

  9. 50:46 a decent challenge. I’m so used to the very precise tight cluing of a Times puzzle whereby every word in the clue has a function and every element of the solution accounted for that I’m ill-equipped to cope with it when the setter throws in a couple of slightly looser ones, which is possibly what has happened here. At 5dn, if cut is sever and alcohol is wine then the “f” in the solution must be accounted for by “with” in the clue – cut out “alcohol” and “with”. The best I can come up with for “f” = “with” is in the second entry for “f” in my Concise OED, definition 12: (in tables of sports results) goals or points for. I’m not entirely convinced by that but it’s my best guess at how to account for the “f”. Clever-clever on the other hand I can only see as a loose Instruction to reverse “revel” and “c” for college twice with no clear indication as to the position they are to take. That also relies on “c” being an abbreviation for college which I don’t think I’ve seen before. I also thought the two ails was a bit odd. Nice to see the old switcheroo in 11dn where books is Old Testament in full rather than OT.
    1. c = college, is in Chambers but I’d put money on never having come across it before.
      1. It’s also in the American Collins. I don’t know if that counts for PB’s purposes. However ODO is based on the Oxford Dictionary of English, which has an avowedly international approach, so if that’s a recognised arbiter then why not the American Collins?

        Edited at 2018-05-06 12:43 pm (UTC)

  10. Having had it pointed out, I now realise that I didn’t bother to fully parse SWINE FEVER once I saw the definition, so I didn’t notice the stray F. Puzzling indeed! I had a vague memory of AGAR AGAR coming up before so that didn’t throw me. Liked MAL DE MER and APPLE PIE. Some tricky stuff but enjoyable. 26:45. Thanks Jeff and K.
  12. My usual time for a Sunday which is longer than a weekday as there is wine involved.
    Only 2 unparsed. CLEVER CLEVER I could half see at the time but SWINE FEVER I still don’t get despite the noble efforts of our blogging community. Probably because wine is involved.
  13. 42 mins. Commenters here have gone to extraordinary lengths to find plausible justifications for clues (SWINE FEVER, CLEVERx2) which I think we should simply regard as just a bit sloppy. Meh!
    The repetitions in the clueing annoyed me: AGAR, CLEVER and (as boltonwanderer noted above) the repetition of -AIL-. But the ones I like were the punny cryptic at WINE CELLARS and the linguistic cleverness of LIEDER.
    Commiserations and thanks to keriothe for having to sort this one out.
    1. Unless we’re all missing something the clue for SWINE FEVER is worse than a bit sloppy. I guess the fact that we’re trying so hard to justify it is a testament to how rare this sort of thing is. I’d very much like to hear from PB on it.
      It’s just occurred to me that SFINE WEVER would fit the wordplay perfectly. I wonder if this is somehow the source of the error.

      Edited at 2018-05-07 09:54 am (UTC)

      1. Well, OK — the clue is screwed up, and we haven’t all missed something. But setters are only human and mistakes can slip through.

        I am now completely baffled by your SFINE WEVER hypothesis!

        1. I suspect you’re right, but if so this is an uncharacteristically blatant howler.
          ‘Hypothesis’ is perhaps a bit strong: it’s hard to see how you could get from SFINE WEVER to SWINE FEVER. But it does fit the wordplay!
  14. As bewildered by SWINE FEVER as everyone else. Please, PB, explain.

    Nice crossword (otherwise) but perhaps a small criticism of its elegance and style: we had ail = feel unwell and ailed = was ill in 10ac and 2dn. Perhaps this repetition doesn’t matter?

  15. Sorry, my mistake – I amended the original clue, intending to end the first sentence with “with loud complaint” but somehow dropped the “loud”.
  16. Don’t overthink this one.. it’s one of the simpler clues and very straightforward. It’s not suggesting acronyms it’s just saying take the first letters of those two preceding words…
    1. I don’t agree, anon. The word ‘first’ is needed to indicate that PA comes before ELLA, so there is no indication to take the first letters of ‘personal experience’. But there’s no need for it, since PA is indeed an acronym for ‘personal appearance’, as a look in Collins will confirm.

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